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' ■ ...... - . ,^ 

rrci". !<.-.v;'tftr,tif; &-,^huj-('V, Teehnic^i Dlrei^tcr, U. . i' . 

Major 'leneral Vladimir Shatalov , Cosrconaut 

Bv\.'H'i:er ie:.erhl Thorr^^r I'taffcr-,;, ADt !•■. t.M'j" 
Mr. A'.tjxu; ?:»t i?t ?he J'!' , i -r:. iv t >;•!■ 


:.»iUea wA Off.Mlt^men, if -ewiy cm. wlli com in ve will gvt 
stHi-tetl, pleasf. The Hirtioipaius if. lovUy'a ntwa coj.ferc Jioe 
aro representatives of bovH the United GKntes nnd the Soviet 
I'nion iii the Af^llo/3oyu2 tiiai project. I think aeverttl ff 
thtie g»;ni;ep.tvi^4f« far.iii^r to yen. I'll i^k-r-tlfy ihm for 
ycu. Krce sy rj^ht Dr. Oivfm lunney th^- technical diri^ctDr 
for prefect tor the United i'r.-itea. Pro:', K.--.stftnt u. &j?huy..v 
teehhi;"il iirt;t,.-r for thtj :c:Vift 'ir.i^ii, Mu.'.t 1 

.r. Aivrrywy -.".s; . Ut-yt: v a!..;f,-r v.-terar. .• :;„r- :r;*.ut , l'ri,^u.5i^-;- 
.;;'n.?r'ii :~r. 5 1 f.:'f:T i v;:.;. v? . . 'u^.i V-.--: !'ni». d r't'-rK-j. cr.--v 

>/.■•' U -gi:, vl-!, jLrnt* r«-;nrr,s rr..,.n ^i-. i.uia.ey, !*vHcv.:t:i Vy 
f r,-*: . ::',i5r\ay rv . I'v, i„ur.n»:'> . 

I 'i iies an.i a?<T.CTi, I »* r U'.?e:i tj tf here tcday, ve thought 

It u-:u;:i -.^fful tr h.^ve a - : nferenc*^ e.'irly i rt^- . 

V.-ry -iear:y ve ic nr.t Lav- i-r ^roii'io .-■.i.:^ y-r 

c:: tr.t :cr.ler'- ^v,■.^ p,.r' .;-tr r;...-, i r:,- , > v ^ 

v.Vii {■ i; uf e :'u 1 a;: i t.elt *. v t r-,.,'.t r >... -. 

• • ^'iv>'- .-.t;':. .'.■ty V:.'-:. ' - 'n"r--v"\T-!.t ■,■;„: ;;i^nci .;.--.'l:i't 
t..:.i3 thvrv hnve i'e*^-:; r.rt-t , tw,: c-f then r.t>.i"r 

r.eetings all t;-.t-. vorKinfi rr-r^rs , thi? Uing the 3e4or;--i ;}'jw«h 
full scale r-eelir.g. Again, althcMgh it is very early in 

soon even that t-ontradictQry factor viU le elimitrnttju . Of 
courey, tr»Ht'a a Joke, We hftve a great deal of worK wheid of 
u» ana ve wiU have asany <Jiffic-ult technlCbl proVleoa to ssolvfc, 
but we are quite certain that vo will be In a position to solve 
them nil. fHirlriR this iseeting ve are un4er Iht- obligation to 
Kiake a deciaion on many or^anization&l and tcchidnr ' aai ectis 
of the ApoUc-coyuz. mission. Ve eajie here with n large ^rcxiv 
cf spcclaiists which viil rermSt u3 tc solve h I'u-ge nu-t-er 
of {•rajl^frjs. I-uri::i^ tM;j :nee'if^ an^i ancn*; thr vari&uu other 
•lut-.n i ens v; are .iealir.t vith ve Jeeided tc j-ny rirt:cu)-*r 
■itttT.t r. to }:rcV ■,f.r;3 of cf the crewj of the apace 
^hiji!. S'his is a very big an-i very rericus quciticn that 
vil'i t;;Ae --.rviit leal of 'ur attenticn. We at!.rie!i to Ji^;- 
cus£ prctlen last Octets?!- In Moscr.v vhen the teesrlcati 
delegation had axor-g its staff Astronaut Tom St&ffori vho 
3howe; a very deer ui.dorstfindi r;*^ of the;:*- jr-rlen;:. We ver^' 
v^ry hniJi-y to finJ cut ^■;en<^rui :'fiff;;i"i hri4 i^ef. 'ivt'-iiitel 
nu- -c-x'xcii:V c-f the- fir-:t crt-v of Arcli:, in this Joint flight. 
At. J I'rcr. •!,!> tC'ttcr; cf c^^ir heart:- wt- c'.-;if!r-it .i-it" \ir.x r.^: 

CO I liri^iies . It iii 'luite i.'-tt-^rnl th^it thf? -ja-^^t:';;, .-,r.e.- -j^, 

viil l« i-. the .-rev ,,f th-? ;\-,vi<?t sh;]-. I r.-isl ^tate 
here that - tell ycj that the cmyositicn cf the Soviet orew 
for the 2;-a.-ecraft Scyuz has not yet been appointed. In 
accordance vith the goieral plans agreed to this vill be done 
in the very near j^ature. 

To vhat Dr. Lunney, Dr. Buehuyev, «n4 General Shhtalov have 
I vouia like to mU only « fev vords, Wft came here in 
thia vielegfction in or4er to discuss in addition to the ques- 
tion of the construction of the spacecraft the questlcn of 
the tra'inng of the crevs ar^d also onVoar-l dccimentatlof) . 
¥or the first tine in hi8toi7 this mission vill featuiv the 
flight of ivo spacecraft mnnufftctured in tw^j differ«»i.t 
i^ovuitries ar.i winne<i by crewa of these tvo oountriPS. kni 
\hv succf-ss of the nission vill depend in a /sry significunt c-n the way in which on hoard dcca-sentation is prep«re-i, 

<-■••"• 3 dr,.-;ir'.eritfttion E,ust assure the - aust hridt-e the 
t^j , ti.e difference in languages anl also naat ocver all 
;\>sslhie situations t hat sray arise. And frcr. the very re^in- 
r;ing we were able to see that the ap;.roa?h to this qvi^^ti-n 
of onboard dc-uaentat ion is the sfr.e in ycur ccuntry hs it ii; 
in ours. We are very happy to ir.eet the crev of the Apollo 
spacecraft. V.J for ihe lirr.e b^^ir.^ ve are vorKir.^- I t^iink 
viti; great si.v.'fso and hvc- p.'iw :i.'jt hI': r.r.-- r.-';;!: ) e";;- 

cnrri<-a c\it i^jfiii ly . :h'i:-.K yoi, 

vcv do you do r.y dear frien.i.^ (spoken in '-.ussian). it is 
certainly a pleasure to work with General vShatalcv, Ccsr.onaut 

. 7 

It viil start viih ft visit by the Soviet ersrwn to ine Uiiit»M 
Stfitea this siunrae.", uni will be foUov«d by a vIsH if vhs 
Soviet Union by the United ii-xiss creva that are nvailtible 
this ftUl. And I vould like for Oenerftl Shut &lov and Cosmo- 
/mut YelJseyev to u^serlbe what tfiikci atout in 
('cntrEil US far a? inO'^Kup rind s j'nuUitors . 

Vf i^ave hirefiiy ;-v,T.e to ar. agreer.enl ua ic tV.f t'irsi ot'i.'f o 
training: which viil fif.v. piace in li.t- l'r.ilf:;i .-rt'itr-^g fin^i ttn- 
i ~-vi-Jt I'nion. JiVrsut the prc^ran that viil t,-e foil; w .1 

rri.:;t.L;. Ii vlll h-tv-' ic ..i,> vitij thf r.ut'ial rio i ril "irK'e un^i 

tne ^ysterns vhich will it: ori heard ani havf> to be V'/rk*'-; 
Jointly, and a series of ether occupti* icna , At each suc- 
^•essive r.t>':-t ir.fT ve viil hr si^rpeiris^ vh**!-. tht' r.ext ir.eelintr 
viil take jiiactt stnd will he listing the r.:;:» fr.rirrtn:;' a-.;*- 
,'o:'t.; th'it viil r,HVt- t •:. eor.r i d^T<.'-j .'':.i:.*„-y :v h- *.h --revi;. 
.<uesti:Tij r.i' tht stri^v' i 1 , t.:,-;- ni':^--- ■■('•■v ' r.;i:-.s h(-r 
hrv.n c:;<^ .'hi;: ';M:>t !,»:-!' , ^-.-i^'^-s o: . i w : '* i v ; ' i<\'. :v 

iina vice vsr£;'i tr,e /cneri^a:; aptrc.r;^:'. >-';c3t;- In r,.r 
ship. We will a^ree about the sinulat .^r^r and models that 
vili be used In thf; c-ourr;e ch t.-aining i r. the- future. 

further Joint ni^eting on the subject before ve decide. Ana 
lei M aslf. Prof. Buahuyev to add tuiy though* -s of his on the 

5VushK^'ev ! I voalfil llk« to adti th« following! Tht' prcposai of the 

Soviet acicntists on tne subjcrot of ;3c-ier,t i f Ic experincnta 
to i-f made durir:g this flight, as veil tr.e- prrpcsal teing 
rjfvde iy the Arsericsifi scientists; vhtch ve It.'Hrnea ntnut wheri 
vt} o?c?.e here new, are very iengthy , v*>ry »-iir.«'r: --a, *r:'l '\re 
':e:;;ji ieral ly In access of vhut t:,e crtvs ciw* =i :C';-nj';: ish iiirit;^ 
It:'.: of flitf-ht. Therefore, we i.uve ^^'•vx*> >--. chrice. 

7h=-\t selection will tt- Rade not jr.g this r.eeting Ust at 
c^r.f i'^lsf.-jueiil r.eeting. In ord«?r to S'ltisfy the n-.fix5n,;.j5 
fcssirle extent of vhai the scientists vouL' liKe to have 
li: . I'f-aring in tiir.d. the tine a7ai,!abie. 

v'-i':?ry: I vculi liKe to ftnk our visiter;-, since they havi- tecr, vorkin^ 

rather -^Icseiy vith thv' Ar.erioan iipace r-rcgra;'. ;■ ti-e 
new. .:' they h'=ivc fcund any thing aurimr T,r.i.= t ^rw. vi. 
£i!r;:ri5^£ alc-it C'';r siar.^ p-;-'(;r!C, v';l,:?, i".;. ; the™ 

or vh: tney :"i:ii uru ^iae; 
r:"'.;y V V : We reije't very ::;■.•:;! t.he work It. tit ; t,--.:.^ ■.irnt i-y v:;r 

AnerLr&r. collefittues in spaot; . Wtr fed, v*- leiie-vt' that thf 
Afollc j rOj-Tfim is really an out st an ling evtnl in the vhoie 
history of syace exploration. Ve are in ^',reat ateLrsticn 
also cf the experi.T^ental base of these apace operations vhich 
we find f.ere in Houston. 


fhatalcv ! 

Bushuyev ; 


- Jnnev ; 

Well, mla frobleo la vhat ve are working on and fomuluting 
the curric^Jum now. All ve can aay is that it viai be dpprox- 
imai'ly one month In each place. 

I vo'ila like to know if the Rusaihn cosmonauts are required 
to Sfena much lir.e aignine', th«ir autcgraphss . 
As ffiuch time as American astrcnauta dr. We founl that -rit 
sinc'i we've been here. 

Prof. Bushuyev, ♦•xciuding Kodlfieat Uns that ycu Right have 
lo T.ake for this > articular rcissicri, are the basic S?v-u 
spaoerraft ari',1 ia'^noh vehicle thai ycu viU use alreafiy ccr.- 
i>truct,cu a^iu uVHitij^g use, or if they Jire not, v:;on viU tr.fy 
ir reaiy? 

Our progr.'C-. of preparing our Scyua spacecraft for fiic'i.t is 
going strictly in aecoriance vith the scheaule that h^F ceen 
agreed ti with the United States. And there's r.6 question 
about it t;iat our ahifs viii le resiy tr. tlrr.e for tiu- Jcint 

Win ir.-cv? liy ^r;y training f-'^uir^^-t f'x,-h'-;::f:f'n s --tvoi-n the 
tvc .;c.intries: ^j.:: j i :"i •cal ly ;;ir.ulrit':r- vr 1h>>>: i-M:;'; 
W): lie rjot ;r;t,e;vi to exohrir.j^e ■;nyth;r»^ th" :';.-r^ ^■t^ -i 
sin:ul;it::T . 'I'he i^est place tc leaiT. ai-:-ut Arc lie- i3 ri^ht 
here in Houston and the lest pluce to learn about a Soyuz iu 
in t}ie ?ovlr>t Union. However, vo iinve agreed ti.Ht drawings 
of some of the rr.cduies would te useful and pre limi nary 

the trunsfor proc.durea a.a the cquij«er.t that might U- 
n««4ed for aemuration vf.on coming frm the 3oyu. to the 
Apollo pressure. 

have p.s.e<l the fK>I„t of th.t Krg.r agr.e-n.nt .o«. .onth. 
age an4 ve are ncv dovn to ve^ detailed :tisrua«i<.,. <u.o.t 
the rrocedures a3.ociaiec^ with tho pressuri^.tion .r.l 
pressuriaaticri a-irir^g the transfer sequence. 
Would y.u expect to :e Aneric. at t.e :..n.h 

rne question of th. p^rticipanicr. of A...:-ican ^.tre^ent at Iv.s 
in the Btnrt and ocntrol of tr:e r-^ht .:>r -oyu. .ra.eer.n 
has te^n agreed to - vith us in a rrc^lir.i.ary fashicr., A.i 
vh.tev.r necessary Ar.eri.can specialists viU jartioipate ir: 
the control of the fllgh, cf .h. spn-craft Fcjni.. Th. 
rartic-ij;ati..n of sreciaii.t. U-it.^ 4i,cu,s", ,r. 
the ba.i. of technical r.....nity. th,. ren.e:-: v., ,..v, 

-nat. .lUouss- vr, joea r^-t rcrv-- t - .. , . 

abo:jt flight centre I type reopie. 

Just further, there ^cn • t be any ni..Mer.t...:;r^ vi:i 
there be toericws at the launch of ^^u■ -o^^^ sni in the 
fVusstan ccraroi center and where will tma cr-roi center he 
by the way? 


Washington. D. C. 20546 



RELEASE NO: 72-109 


The National Aeronautics and Space Administration tvviay 
released tho text of an April 1972 agreement with the Acaccny 
of Sciences of the USSR on the organization, development, 
scheduling, and conduct of a test docking mission for manned 
spacecraft in 1975. Tho ac^reemont will be the basis for 
implementing those sections of the space accord reached by the 
President this week in Moscow which relate to the test docking 
mission . 

The April agreement builds on three previous agreerjnis of 
October 1970, Juno 1971, and .N'ovomber-December l'j7i, on the 
design and flight testing of compatib/ie rendezvous and docking 
systems. The April meeting was requested by NASA to satisfy 
management and operational considerations attaching to a joint 
mission prior to possible commitment at a government-to-qovernmont 

level . ■ 


May H , 1972 

fHaht plana .nci n^insion rules for nor.U , 
sitn^i; normal and contingoncy 

Situations; the immedi.if « » . ^ 

irnmedxatQ transmission of fliaht ■ 
«eivea in one country to tho other's oonf , 
lovel of r.r control conter, the 

Of roc.procal familiarity-; and the , 
pu-uic iniorm.ition plans t ..t,- 
obM„.^- '"^'^ account the and practices of both sides. 

Beyond the teat ..ssion which is planned for I.75 th^ 
'Accord announced in mo^-.,,, . ' 

in .oscow provides that fnfur^ 
manned spacecraft k . aonoraUon. of 

^-cocraft or both the United rtatos and the c.v 

- capable of docKin. ... ^^J^;--^ 
^-^iUcate assistance to astronaut ' 

Pos...e the conduct of Z 
--ndant "^"^^'^ ^'^^^^^^^^ 



Phonos 202/755-8370 



Objectives : 

1. To design compatible rcndorvous and docking systems 
future spacecraft oi' tho US and USSR. 

2. To test tho technical requirements and solutions 
for compatible systor.s for docking of future manned space- 
craft and stations usincj existing spacecraft. The testing 
will include the rendezvous and docking of Apollo/Soyuz wj t h 
tho active use of all thio now equiprnent required for conpati- 
bilaty a/ailable for the mission. The test mission will include 

(a) Te,«itinq of a compatible rendezvous system 
in orbit . 

(b) Te.stinq of androcjynous dockinrj assemblies. 

(c) Vorifyinq tochniauos for transfer of astronauts 
and cosmonauts . 

(d) Activities by US and Soviet crews in docked flujht. 

(o) Development of experience for tho conduct of 
joint fliqhts by US and Soviet spacecraft, 
including aid in emergency situations. 


A|) Ollo Si^aco craft : 

In order to poriorm the experimental test mission, the 
US will use an A{V>llo-typo spncocraft and a new system 
referred to as the docking module. The ApollD spacecraft 
will be a modified vorsio-", of the command and Rorvico modulo 
flown durinq the first several lunar landinq missions. 
This ba.sic spacecraft has l)een manii f actvired and chocked 
out and is prepontlv in storaqo. Some modifications will 
be required as a result of uniau<i mission requirements. 
The major modifications will ingiudo .lUUtional proi'Ol lant 
for the reaction control system, testers for thermal control, 
and the controls a:v1 displays required for the proper opera- 
tion of the docking module. 

The dockinq modulo is a cylindrical shai^ed structure, 
;inprox Ima toly 5 feet in dianotor and 10 feet in lonqtii. 

will servo as both an airlock for the internal transfer 
of crowm.en bot\Ncen the different atmospheres of the two 
spacecraft and much of tho now compatible equipment will 
be located in this structure. On the forward end of this 
mc<lule, the new peripheral dockinq system will be located. 
RckUo communications, TV dockinq displays and antennas will 
also be mounted on the module. 

The docking modulo will be equipped vith tho necessary 
stored gases, a thermal control loop, and the displays and 
controls necessary for safe operation of the two different 
f>rossure levels. For this operation, hatches with manual 
controls will be installed on either end of tlte nodule, 
which is scaled to handle two suited crevi-men. 


h'U'e boon u^, ri ^. ^^^^o^s versions of . 

Thio . Station, "Salyut." 

2 Orbital .Modulo 
^> InsLrurent. Module 

to the orbit 1^-. I scent modula is co^^r^^'^^^ P^rforn^ed 

:lnd wot. aro/durln. .'^^."^f is u?od^"ra°cre\'%e.t 

' mod.,i« 1 . '-arth orbit phase 7.^ . 

oporatod no ^•^PProxinatcly si>hrt. . v , 'Missions. 

_ i^^' rendo.vous .nd dock 1^9%;;- '"s lT\ T^^^ion. 

• O^u^TitT^' -iuip.ent^'" '••^ ^^^^ ^^^^ rro,uen.i.«. 

• Per Ik *^ f'^*-^ » '"xj beacon. 

> lun.^en. for crov Ir^^sfor. 

more - 

th. .^!^K?h? ^^^^ "'-^«^<?onip'.tible systems will bo located on 
the orbital module; for example, the new docking system 
will be installed on the existing structural dockiL rinq 
on the front end of the spacecraft. ■ 

Number of crewmen - 2 
Wciqht - 15,000 pounds 
Overall length - 2 4 feet 

Diarroter of the habitable moduU^s - 7.1, foot 

pfrji/rn™""' -/''■^ (Nitrogen and oxyg.^n nixture) 

• artial pressure of oxycjcn - 3.5 psi 

Consumable lo.iding for a nominal flight of 5 days. 

- n^oro 

- 5 - 

rnodulG wouM ^ stacjo s~ivfn '^^ter separation frr.^ 

^■ssontlallv th^ i^tornaUy mounted n ^^e s-iVR 

X'^^ inclined 5? , ^?^^^ '"i^-ions . ^%le""^[,'^^d"lo is 
over the USSR launch <^<5"'^tor, n ^i^"*" °^ ^^^^ orbit 

selected and adiusu.H . ''- '^^'^ ^Pollo ^uff^^^^ P^as 
provide daii.^ f P*^^"iodicallv ^^^^^^^^o will bo 

.--^t. As soon^,^""^^^?PPortunai'e:^^r^^ in cruder 

Soyu2 spacecraft woEld ^^^f^ '^^^^'^^ the A.>6n^ f^'^' 

looping, tho Ai^iio At thl tl^^ 

dock With tiio sov,.^ sp.icecraft would ^ " °^ station 
the „o„ po. f^^:;,!'! » now TV doc^n^"","!?"" " 

t..o - - : """""" 

'^oviof. cos.nonaul h.^i. * 'Astronaut woi.j ? After on 

f.^^I^i'-o an into ^^"^ ^^^^^lo '^c-co^pany a 

oxyaon prebroathin-i V i"*^* crewmen vor^nll ^""^s in 

So%s.\^r,™£"if ^^^^^ 

"«dule will , indicate. For «-^4ui-ncrn ,« i 


Once the dockud pljase is completod, the tuo vehicles 
will separ<3tG and possibly perform further teute of the 
docking system and the optical and radio aids and eouip- 
tnents. The vehicles will then be .-naneuvered to soparato 
orbits for return to Eart'.. 

- more - 

Within NASA tur. ■ 
Manned Spacecraft' ^J''' f'^°?^ct tea;T» will bo In^^. . • 
direction Of tho M^c?^^'" ^" "o^ston. u wn° '''^ 

oi .'.anned Space 

more - 

Costs : 

It is estimated that tht* cost of the project will be 
$250 million, for development of the docking module, the 
now docking system, other necesSciry modifications, the 
launching and the conduct of the operation. The Apollo CSM 
and Saturn ID which will be used for the test rpission are 
left over from the Apollo program. 

- more - 

- 9 

SujKnarv of Agreements Reaohort , 
October 28, V^IO 

" ^llif ttL^4^^'4 which tho two .idos 
systems. ""a'^^tlon- arrive at oomijat ibl6 

- Establiahod three joint working group,. 
Juna 21-25, 1971 

- Agreed on air lock volume. 

' Z^^o^l""""^"' °' "-«-al olo„«„ts and 

- Agreed on optical and rad.o bo.con characteristics 
■ £e?r:"t^a^^d-b=n= ^^IVt^^^^^^ 

- Agroed on characteristics of co. t.ol systor^s. 
" Jyreed on docking system basic ^unctions i 

doaign UMturos. and spacocraf t ila^'^pJop^Jt ios . 
N'ovomber 29 - December 6. i9 7i 

" furDo;'?''i'\^^' ^^^'"Pl-^t^d docir^^ntation on life 
suipoit systems, coordinate systems anH^^iio^ 
on spacecraft configuration. constraints 

- more - 

* 10 

- Idontlfloa guidanco and control aystws and on- 
board equipment of US and USSR spaceurrtft which 
would need to bo compatible. 

« Substantially complotod docuroontatlon on lights, 
dookimj targets .ind contact conditions/control 
syntorna and radio tracking. 

" ttl^^Tl 5" V"^}"^ "'''^"''^ ^ '^""P^tible docking 
system includincj tunnol diamotor for astronaut 
paaaaqo • 

- Beached prolirainary aqroement on the basia for 
desiqn of nn androfjynous dockiny device. 

April -1-6, l<)72 

- Confirmed tho dos i vahi li ly of conductini a 
test mission usinj i-xistincj srac'oeraft in 1975. 

. Accepted, an the bans for joint sfoci f icat ion 
Of mana.roment and ojiorational quidolinoa for 
3oint n^ission, docu/nenta on Tropoaed Organiza- 
tion PI for t}w Apollo/fioyui! Test Mlsaion," 
Apollo/Soyuz Test MUaion Considerations," "A 
Proioct Tcclmical Proposal Document," and "h 
Pro-ject Sohodule Document." 

- Agreed on spocific principles illustrative of 
those which will apply in the preparatory and 
operational periods: 

Frequent direct contact between project 
personnel on both sides. 

Detailed commitments to schedules. 

A comprehensive tegt, qualification, trainina 
and simulat ion |)rv"5gram. 

Involves, n I of mis.sion flight and ground 
crew personnel in Joint working groups two 
years before the miaaicn. 

Emmet rinq aqrooment ir July J')72. 

Control of iwn spacecraft and spacecraft 
situations, with certain pre-pl<-inned quidc- 
Unos to bo v/orked out. 

Consultation on control actions atfoctin.) 
lomt elimentfi oi the mission. 

Pre-planned in-tliyht information oxchanace. 
including TV. 

Reciprocal lanquaje familiarity amonq fliciht 
crows . 

A public information program respectinq 
the policies and practices of both sid(?s. 
- more - 

- U * 

Chairman o/ ° ^'^V'" Tost Prn?L?\,f"'*'«»»»» 

Cnn ' 

^'■'•^ Group Three 

• 12 " 

Chronology of Kvonta 
US-'USSR Negotiations on Coropatibie Benaeavous 
And Docking Systoma 

April 24, 1970 

M,v/ 1970 

July 31. r370 

Octolier 10. 1970 

October 26-28, r)70 - 

January D"^! 
June 21-?5. 1971 

.'l-2'S, 1971 

In an infornuil fwooting in Naw York, 
Dr. Pain©, then Administrator of NASA, 
suggested to Soviot Academician Dlaqonravov 
cooperation in the area of astronaut 
safety, including compatible docking 
fixtures for apaco uLitiona and shuttles. 

Dr. raxno indicated th<j NASA intorost in 
coronon docking to President Handler of 
the US National Academy of Sciences, who 
relayed the suggestion to President 
Keldysh of the Academy of Sciences of 
the USSR. 

Dr. Paine suggested to Academician 
Keldysh that this possibility be con- 
sidered in a proiected in<:)eting. 

Academician Keldysh and NASA's Acting 
Administrator, Or. Low, agreed on an 
October 26-28 meeting m Moscow. 

Discussions of possible docking airanqe- 
monts wore lield in Moscow, resulting in 
agreement ihat the two sides would attonj t 
to clesiqn compatible docking systerns (or 
future ruinned spacecraft . Agreement 
reached on procedures ant} on a schedule 
for loint effoits to design compatible 
rendezvous and dockin<rj ar r-mgements . 
Three Joint Working Groups wore established 

Dr. Low gujgoBtod to President Keldysh 
that Apollo and Soyu^ spacecraft be 
considered for a rendezvous 
and docking mission. 

The ihrto Joint workin<» Groups, m«?eting 
in Houston, considered the technical 
requirerrionts for compatible systems 
including the gem ral nethods and means 
for rendezvous and docking, radio and 
optical reference syfitops. communications 
systems, life support and crew transfer 
systems, ond docking 

assemblies. They 

- more - 

iS'oven\ber 29 - 
December 6, I971 

March 27 - 

April 3, 1972 

April 4-6, 1972 

M'^y 10-17, 1972 

« i3 * 

nunujor of t^ohnicfl I solutions and 
roquiroments and icJontifUd a nCmber of 
other probloma Which toquTred adSi?lonfl 

th^t etudios Should be mado of tho ?ech- 
nioal and economic imp Heat ions of nfahf 
exponments to tost do tachnicai a^ i!^' 
tions for co(T.patiblo systems. 

" 1!;^;^^'^..^^'''*^ Working Croups mot 
4<jain m Moscow And mado proqresa in 

a ? ^r^^'}^ joint' Joir'is 'ion 

?echn ca'l roa^:?" ''^"^ ^lofinition o? 
sJstSis m f^^''"^''^*''^^ ^^'^ compatible 
f^rJJI futuro spacecraft. Thuy 
a^rood on the tecnnlcal foasibi uy of 
such a tost mission. 

' asiurina^i^"*' ^''f^?'^ ^' ^^'^Ponsiblo for 
f°'^^"^^i>^lUy of docking sys- 

Ro«^u2 /'T"''^^' Houston. ^ 

Results to be confirmed in 60 dai'g. 

confif^.f ^" Moscow. 

^i2«i«r desirability of a toM 

So i.^n,^"'^ established understanding on 
the manayomont and operation of a 

i^i Agreed to use 

specified documents as basis for dov^i^. 
ment Of joint documentation Agreed 
on Illustrative- principles for p^erfr, 
tory and operational phases . 

Working Croup Number 2 rosoons ihi « 
compatibility Of radio gufSanci sys °' 
ten>s, optics and other guidance and 

~tlT.'uT ^VJtoms.'not in'.M^sL.. 
Results to be confirmed in 60 days. 

- end - 

•nd tfw less. »«ttoo» of USA 

^rinc April li • 6. 1972 in 
^^-■•A, Dr. Core, M. iM, ,„a - 
ic.o,,ii,i„ V. A. Hu,lnl„ov . 

t>0U, sidas particirated. 

vort. . . «i^*t'iUV Of (.) contlnuine further 

-iic ^ oev.lop ,uoK and (b) corductW . ,,,, 

^y»^..n3 durl^ i,7s. ' 

'^A and U,e Acade-^y .g^ed U-^t tt« fi^^ 
t^-tUic of compatible rendezvous and d^.L, 

related docvnonutlon n>sulMn. r 

r,>suUlfVT from pnwlous «o„tl,v« 

^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ 

rr>.p«.e<i joint ^ 

" ju^ui cype spacecraft ehall b« 
forvarded to U.. Xnorican aide m Kay 1?7?. 

^-A and U» Acadewy apr^P f>,.» 

^.^0 Uiat a corvnon underaUnding of biuiio 
Prlnclplaa for orcanl^inr- ^ , OMio 

a,v,upi„„, ^ ^^^^ 

• U>»t iil.slon U r«Qvilr«d .,■,„„ 

^ ^^^^ ^ 

To prcrS,<i» « b*«l« for und»r«t4ndln« And d«v«loplnc auoh prLnoipl««i 
ri\e US sid« h*8 pr«Dar«Kl & numiMr of draft documnta inoludlngi 
p«rticuUrly, th« foUovlng on«8t 

A. Pro>o«»d Orc*rvii»tlon Pi«n for th% ApoUo/Soyus T*i»t 'at.^io.-.. 

■3. A ?r«ja>}t '.'•sruao*! jVoo^a*; ►>>evi»i«nt, 
i/. A "*r<Jj«ot 3cheaul« Doc\inTnnt. 

Thaa« ar<Mnonia arc aooaptod «8 th* Biaia for U» d«voloj*«nt of 
Jointly p.vf«rert docunenta. 

BoUi sid*>?i hf\rve Xivit tf» specific content of thase docunenls wlH 
be Jointly d«velop»'d and agr«ed upon at lha nftxt wetlng of worklfv, groupa 
In July 1972, to provide th« neco38ai7 basia for auccessful iitplenentatl^fn 
of a joint nission, should such a Pdssion bs apj^rovod by the two gowmMnts 

Tlia following pointa, to which both sides agr«e, wtvlla not 
comprananalva, illustrate in surenary fashion soi^o ox" the* pvajor 
r«qulr«nont9 wr.lcfj ar»< conuined in docur^nt 8i 

A, For t^^a preparatory (prf-launch) period— 

1, :ie?ul«r and direct contact will t<9 provided through 
eomuAiCa tvor. Ixnks and vlsiti a» required, 

2, A complete project schedule will t>e developed and coiwdtAenta 
will oe jnade on ooth eldea to weet this schedule in on^ar ^ aVQ^d ooatly 
delays to either party. 

3, Arrangfl.Tents will ovado for necessary contact and 
undpratanding between apecialiata onga(,Jd in developing and conduotlr^ 
the project, 

U. A conprehensiYe teat, quaUfloatlon^ and slauUtion progrM 

will b« oavelopad. 

5. A sufficient levol of faniliarizatAon and trainine» where 
applicable, with the oth^r country's vehicle and/or normal training 
equlpiflont niist be defined and provided for safe ty-of-f light assurance. 
The nocessary training axorciaea will r>e conducted in each country for 
the other country's flight crew and ground operations personnel, 

6. The nnrties rocotnizo In particular that they rust jointly 
.-.x • a. co.'.c.^rti.i rtf:'ort t3 arr./-^j a:, a fiill A?ree-w.-.t Ort the e.-vrAnaorirs? 
i..-,psst6 o:" -he ,-d3£lon duriiV th& •^■tj-jtinf. of workir^- groups in July 19'^2» 

7. "Two years, prior tr^ fll^;ht, respo.naiDla .ytraons who will 
^^If'^ctly pariicipavj Ifi 'Jt-n flifht o^crA'-lona»lci be iriLsdea \n the 
w>ricirfc,^ #rroap3 in or:er to acsuro a proper leval r<ton:H\ und*r* tarvxtn^ 
aivi a continuity oi" pi^raonnel ir.u> the real-ti^e operation. 

B. for the -il3sion oporation— 

1. Control of the flti^ht of the Apollo-typo spacecraft will 
rxj acconpliahed by thfl A~eric^n Control Centor and that of %he Soyu* by 
th« Sovifjt Control Cont^^r, with sufficient comrunic&tiDn channels t«tween 
cen^^ra for propor coordination. 

2. In the. courso of control, docl8t<5*v» concerning question* 
a' fectlri^', Joint elor^nta of th^ fllf^ht progn-in. Including countdown 
coordination , will no .naiifl after consultation with than control c«nt«r 
if th«? other covmtry. 

3. Joint flle>nflnt3 of the fli^'ht will conducted accopsling to 
coomlnat>!d and aj^rovod 'lission docur»>nt.itlon, Including contir^ency 

U. In th«i cor.auct of th^ flif^ht, pre-planned exchanges of 
t^'chnlcal infon\^tion and st-iUis will do porforfli^d on a scheduled beaia, 

5. The host caantry c^>r.trol center or hoft^ country aoacecraft 
Ci^Tj' will htve ?rl<.ary roioo.'.iibiiity for 4«cidin| ti^i kppropriAUt 

,i<.*»-->'-»f-'.t»u cc«.-.t3njt*ricy ^ouroc of action :'or r. jlvan o-.tAu:tion iTi 
.lOi. :- iach owintp/ will prepare decAlidQ rvuci- fo.' v..riou* 
oqulp-r^nt f*llureB rtquirtn^s any of the pra-plarmed oontirxieney .:oara«d 
of Action. 

6. In situations requiring Inpvodlate r'^sponsG, or when out of 
contact with ground personnel, decision will be taken by the conriander 
of the host ship accorxiing to Uie pre-planned, contingenc;' coursis of 

7. Any television downlink wl 11 be Irvnadiately trana-vittea to 
the other country's control center. Tne capability to listen to the 
voice corwwnications ootween the vehicles and the {j^^^und will ne 
availanle to the other co-antry's contr:)! cent -r on a pro-planned basis 
and, upon joint consent, as furthor renuirod or deo!i»d desirable. 

8. doth sides will continue to consider techniques for 
providing additional Infomation and b,4ckj?round to tne otrwr countr/'s 
control center porsonnel ^o assist in mutual undera wmdir^ (includl/i« 
the placBtvsnt of represenUtlvea in each others control centers)^ 

9. Af a rtinimun, flight crows should be trained ij> the other 
countrj-'s languaRe well enou^;h to understand it and act in response as 
appropriate to established voice comnun I cations ref.arding normal and 
continf.ency courses of action. 

10. A public Infomation plan vill be davelopod which Ukes ijito 
account the obligatloan and practices of both aides. 

Dom In Moscow, April 6, 1972, in aigllsh and Russian, botr. languages 
havl-\f? equal force. 

or^e ^K, Lov 

6, Arnold Vrrr4{5cln ' 
''^ I Glynn S. Lunn'oy ^ 

K, D. BusnuysT 

Efforts to develop US-USSR cooperation in space 
research yo back to the first planning of space projects 
in 1955 for the International Geophysical Year. In a 
series of international meetings, U. S. scientists and 
those of other nations sought to develop conventions for 

Wide exchange of space data. 

More specific efforts were made at various times but 

wore not generally fruitful until after the successful 

manned orbital flight of U. S. astronaut John Glenn in 
-•cbruary 1962. The US then made specific proposals which 

resulted in talks between Dr. Hugh L. Dryden late 

Deputy Administrator of NASA and Academician Anatoly A. 

Blagonravov. The result was the three-part bilateral space 

agreement of Juno 1962. It provided; 

1. Coordinated launchings by the two countries of 
experinental meteorological satellites and for the exchange 
of data over a Washington->toscow channel. 

2. Launchings by each country of satellites equipped 

with absolute r^agnotometers and the subsequent exchange 

Of data in order to arrive at a nap of the Earth's magnetic 
field in space. 

3. Joint coininunicationa experitnenta by means of 
the U. S. passive satellite Echo II. 

The Dryden-Blagonravov talks also led to a second 
agreement in November 1965 for the preparation and publica- 
tion of a joint US/USSR review of space biology and medicine. 
These agreements were not fully realized. 

A new phase of the US/USSR space relationship began in 
1969 when NASA Administrator Dr. Thomas O. Paine, in letters 
to President Keldysh and Academician Blagonravov, invited 
new initiatives in space cooperation, in general scientific 
fields as well as in rendezvous and docking of manned space- 
craft. President Keldysh agreed to pursue these suggestions. 

The first rendezvous and docking talks took place in 
Moscow in October 1970 and the more general discussions 
wore held in Moscow in January 1971. The October 1970 
talks related to the possibility that U. S. and U.S.S.R. 
manned spacecraft might be designed so as to be able to 
rendezvous and dock with each other in space. 

The NASA group at these discussions was headed by 
Dr. Robert Gilruth, Director of the NASA Manned Spacecraft 
Center, and the Soviet side was headed by Academician Doris 
Petrov, Chair.uan of Intercosmos, an Academy office ..oncerned 
with international cooperation in apace. The now talks 
wore direct, substantive and businesslike throughout. 

The resulting agreernent provided for procedures by 
which the two countries can, through a combination of 
independent action and coordination, arrive at compatible 
systems. Joint working groups wore established which, in a 
series of meetings, developed the technical understandings 
required for design of compatible rendezvous and docking 
systems. In April 1972, the necessary management and 
operational understandings were established to warrant a 
government-level corrunitment to a joint teat docking mission 
in 1975 and to the use of compatible docking c^ystems in 
future generations of spacecraft. 

The broader talks on cooperation xn space science and 
applications took place in January 1971 in Moscow. Dr. 
George Low headed the US group. An agreement was reached 
on the following main points: 

1. An exchange of lunar samples obtained in the 
Apollo and Luna programs. 

2. Direct efforts by the National Oceanographic and 
Atmospheric Agency (U.S.) and the Soviet Hydrometeorologxcal 
Service to improve the exchange of weather satellite data, 
Which dated from 1964, so as to .hxeve operational utiUty. 

3. Coordination of networks of meteorological rocket 
soundings along selected meridional lines. 


4. Development of a program for coordinated surface, 
air and space research over specified in-.ernational water 
areas and exchange of results of coordinated measurements 
made by each country over similar land sitas in their 
respective territories. The objective is to utilize space 
and conventional earth resources survey techniques to 
investigate the natural enviornment in areas of common 
interest, beginning with the oceans and vegetation. 

5. Joint consideration of the most important scientific 
objectives for the rapid exchange of results from the 
scientific investigation of near-Earth space, the Moon 

and the planets. This will allow each country to take the 
objectives and work of the other into account in planning 
its own program. 

6. Exchange of detailed medical information of man's 
reaction to the space environment. 

Joint working groups wore established to recomii.end and 
work out the necess-.ry steps. These groups have been meeting 
on a business-like basis. Early results of this January 1971 
agreement include the repeated exchange of lunar samples 
retrieved by both countries and the exchange of information 
from Mars probes of both countries while in operation 
about the planet. 


7150 MM 

12900 MM 


Washington. D. C. 20546 


4:00 p.m. 
24 May 1972 




Dr. James C. Fletcher, Administrator 

Mr. Dale Myers, Assistant Admlnistcator-Manned Space Flight 

Dr. Glynn S. Lunney, Special Assistant to the Apollo Program 

CR6430 -2- 

DONNELLY: Good afternoon, ladies and gentleiaen. 
Welcome to part two of the preai conference. We have this 
piped two ways to several of our centers. There will be a 
question and answer session after a brief opening state- 
ment by Dr. Fletcher, Administrator of NASA, by Dale Myers, 
in charge of the Office of Manned Space Flight. And Mr. 
Glynn Lunney who is the project manager for the US /USSR 
test mission will also be available to answer your questions. 

Dr. Fletcher? 

FLETCHER: Thank you, John. 

As you know, the President has signed today with 
Chairman Kosygin an agreetient on space cooperation which is 
by far the west extensive space cooperation agreement that 
had ever been written between this country and the Soviet 

In addition to its broad coverage of nearly 
ell of our apace programs in the two countries, it 
specifically makes reference in one of the articles to 
the agreement to conduct a docking operation between the 
Apollo Command & Service modulo and the Soviet Soyuz 

This is not the culmination but a very major 
milestone in the long period of negotiations with the 
Soviet Union on space cooperation. And In my Judgment 
this is at least one of the most important missions that 
NASA has end that is to promote international cooperation. 
I do not know of another more visible way that two countries 
who are the leaders In the space program can be shown to 
cooperate on a very complex endeavor like this docking 
miss Ion . 

1 think that most of the engineering and oper- 
ational difficulties can be worked out. We have had quite a 
large number of meetings between the two sides. And I 
think we have ironed out most of the broad problems, 
although the real work is yet to come. I think perhaps it 
Is important also to note in passing that we think this Is 
an important part of the new program of NASA for the 70' s. 

As you know, we have connltted to maintaining a 
more or less constant budget during the period of the 70's 
without large expensive programs other than the one we 
have already described. This docking mission can be done 
in the context of that constant budget. 

This constant budget, however, and the programs 
that are now planned, the Skylab, the shuttle and now the 
international rendezvous and docking mission show I think the 
kind of program that we envision for the rest of this decade . 
We seem to have great support in Congress, as noticed by 
the votes on the shuttle and on the space program generally. 
And this program I think is supported at least partially 
because of the strong international flavor that NASA has 
in manned space. 

I think an indication of the popularity of the 
Skylab and the shuttle comes from the kind of a vote we 
had in the SenPte and the House yesterday and has, I think, 
broad Implications for a long period of peaceful cooperation 
In space. 

Now that is all I have to say. Mr. Myers has a 
few slides he would like to show at this time and then we 
will open it for discussion. 

MYERS: I just want to take this opportunity to 
review the objectives of the program and go give you a 
few VuGraphs of the hardware that is Involved. May I have 
the first slide. 


The objectives of the Apollo-Soyuz test mission 
Is to test the technical requirements and soluticns for 
a compatible system with the following sort of sub-objectives 
involved in the program. 

The first Is to test the cor.patlblf rtndezvous 
system In orbit. These pre, by the way, the Joint objectives 
worked out with the working groups that have had these 
several meetings with the Soviet Union. 

The second one is to test the androgynous docking 
assembly. Androgynous is a system which is identical on both 
sides so that we have the opportunity to test by the docking 
of a system that would allow us to dock any space vehicle to 

any other space vehicle in the future. 

The third is to verify the tec*iniques cf transfer 
of astronauts and cosmonauts and then to perform the activities 
of the US and USSR crews in docked flight in accordance with 
a prograv yet to be deternined. 

This is the experimental program we would expect 
to carry out during the time period while we are docked 
with the Soyuz and for the period of time after we are 
■'•eked with the Soyuz. This is probably a series of relatively 
simple experiments we would carry on during the program. 

And, finally, gain experience in conducting 
Joint flights by US and USSR spacecraft including rendering 
aid in emergency situations. This is a rescue capability 
that we think certainly is a very important part of future 
activities and in essence doubles the rescue availability 
for the two nations and does give us that opportunity. 

And I think a sixth and unwritten part of this 
is the opportunity, as Dr. Fletcher said, for the two 
countries to work together at an engineering level .'n a 
broad-based technical high systems engineering kind of 
program that can lead first to this final climax of that 
operation being a test of the androgynous docking systen of 
the Soyuz CSM and then give us there the base from which 
we can work on into other cooperative space activities. 


Here is a very simplified view of this thing. 
The Soyuz is 24 feet long. The docking module is about 
10 feet. And the coninand and service module is about 32 
feet long. 


The operation involves the Saturn IB which we will 
have had as an active part of our program with the Skylab 
activity down at the Cape. The spacecraft LM adoptor we 
call it, the Sl-A, into which we tr.ovnt the docking module 
itself and then the coamand service module. 

After orbit insertion we dock with the Soyuz, 
operate for probably up to two days in that activity and 
then detach and run the experiment mission phase of the 

program and then the normal recovery with parachutes. 

Here's a picture of thsi coMnand aqd service 
module with the docking adaptor mounted In the spacecraft 
LM adaptor in the saia» position where the lunar modul** is 
noimally mounted for launch with that system. 


A picture of the docking module itself, in the 
design and studies that we hav« had this is about five feet 
across, about 10 feet long and has external mounted lift 
support tfnks. And here is the androgynous docking system. 

The next sUdt I think shows it better and shows 
some of what is going m in these activities that the dockine 
module teams are working on. This happens to be a picture 
where each of the ijlements Is llst#d tn English with the 
Russian equivalent under it. And thi» is the androgynous 
system, °' 

^ The-^e two elements are i<$tnticel. one mounted 

on the front of the Soyuz end one mounted on the front of 
the dockln|j module itself. 

Jn docking/ these three elements interleave and 
are used as guides to bring us down to where we do a soft 
latch and finally the hard lock we need for pressure seal. 

DONNELLY: Thank you. Dale. We will have copies 
of Mr. Myers slides at the rear of the room by the time you 
are ready to leave. 

We will take your questions now. After we take 
questions here we will cut to the centers. 

QUESTION: Dr. Fletcher, in the handout that was 
passed out over at the other place, paragraph four says, 
"The project will have an impact on domestic ' 
Jobs, stabilizing many that might otherwise 
be Jeopardized." 
How tnany is many? 

FLETCHER: How many people within - 


QUESnON: Itow «ny P«opl« viU .t.y on that vould 
probably have be«n let go? 

FLETCHER- I do not Chink we have quantified that, 
we could ^^Tn^J^tio^te. It would be one or two thousand, 
that type of thing. 

QUESnCN: Will these be Industry people or NASA 
and Industry? 

FLETCHER: These would be NASA and support con- 
tractors at the various manned space centers. 

QUESTION: And -ost of the new 4400 Jobs will 
be Industry? 

FLETCHER: Industry. 

oiresnON- Before I lose the tnike, could I ask one 
QUESTION. Betor ^^^^ doubles the 

.bout «»<^«*- .^°^^**/^fuze it puts two countries in the 
VMZ b^^n li?^but^o:'t\ou ne^d southing standing by 
on the launch pad to have a rescue capability? 

MYERS: We. of cour.e. with ^^^^^ •Jlj^^lj,"/,. 
u - ^.-At-rv fast response capability wicn cne 
going to have * P^^^'^^^^tt androgynous docking 

shuttle. The shuttle wiii. "-^ ^.^ responsive 

.,.c» .nd ^^l\l'2u \TJ^ll.VtlVl'^"y in the pa.l. 

:!;:r-niror=yncus":/."e^ • we coul. ».oue 
Russian cosmonauts. system would be able to co«e to ours. I 

tunlty to aid and rescue. 

QUESTION: They won't have a shuttle? 

MYERS : No . 

QUESTION: What Is their turnaround time? Is It 
about the same as ours without the shuttle. 

MYERS: We don't know that. I just don't know 
what theii response time is. 

QUESTION; Dr, Fletcher shook his head, 

FLETCHER: We don't know. 

QUESTION: Dr. Fletcher, earlier at the other presi 
conferfinc* you mentioned, and another gentleman mentioned, 
that after the undocklng of the two space vehicles, the Unltec 
States space vehicle would stay up in the present plan for 
10 days or so to conduct further research projects. 

FLETCHER: As much as 10 days. 

QUESTION: What would the Russian vehicle do? 

FLETCHER: We don't know what they plan to do, 
nor do we know what their capabilities are. We have not dis- 
cussed other aspects of the flight, other than just the 
rendezvous and docking part which Is what Is required to do 
it well. We both have to understand each other's problems 
there. What we do after we finish the docking, I think we 
may discuss it. But it Is not an essential aspect. 

QUESTION: But that has not been worked out at 
the present time I gather. 

FLETCHER: Go ahead, Glynn. 

LUNNEY: The point Is that we are not going to 
try to work out what either country does after the docking 
phase of the mission Is over In the sense that each country 
might have some scientific experiments which we would then 
continue to exercise. The exact number that we would have 
and what they would be Is undetermined at this tlnie, so ve 
ourselves do not know precisely what our flight program would 
be subsequent to the docking activities. 

But one thing we do know about the Soviet Sojrut 
that is Intended to be used Is that it has a Ufetlioe on 
the order of five days, a nortaal lifetime of five days. 
That happens to be the configuration they will want to fly 
which already fairly limits the amount of time they have 
available for any activity. But what that will be we have 
not discussed, nor is it especially pertinent to the problen 


w« f e trying to tackle right here. 

QUiiSTION: H-8 the A«erlc-n crew that Is going to 
fly this been chosen, please? 

rmcHER: NO, the cre« has not been cho..,K U 
„U1 be sometime before It is chosen. I suspect, 
■several months. 

QUESnON: IS there any particular reason then 
that some of them are studying Russian. 

FLETCHER: I guess they all want to be chosen. 
question: as far as we knov only three of them are. 

PIFTCHER- 1 think that is an oversimplification. 
FLETCHLK. i V.' 1 v how many people have been 
1 do not think we can say fi^^V ? are a nudber 

naut corps . 

question: Glynn, l£ I <"><'«"°'^„n/',l^U^orr 
the previous briefing you seld there would '■^^^^"^^'.,1^ 
„ such. HOW «in the ^Ve"Iu g«'so-ethlng from 

the. video "P^'^o^ If r do the slLfatlon. per 
the Russians; v)r now wiii. 
Apollo, for example. 

LUNNEV: It is possible but x am no^^^-ctly^sure 

what you mean. But we ^^^^^^f/^^.^t to be trained for in 
of things we feel o^'^/^^^^"^^" ^fha^ defined, we would 
the use of soviet equipment, ^nce that ^^^^^ 

proceed to make "^""f^^^ ^^^'^ en whatever existing and 

the soviet ""f°"/"tlities w^ld be available in that country 
and appropriate facilities wwu 

for such training. 

the Wind of training we would be doing would 
be not entirely new and ""Ij-.f/^^f ^^^^nfuf, :Uo would 

tr^fai^ tTrTLTu^X zr.. would b. u-mg 

no^al tralnl.^ facilities of theirs. 

two back through ch. docking "^'^^^ .„d tr.ln th.» In 

r ^:inr"Are To^kC-u- """" 

with the coimand module. 

question: Vou envision .rather free exchange of 
crew then during this training period . 

LUirreY: Yes. 

" use f^=,-;'ro?itng«Tut°ornre"'w"e%Sng^o stick 

o «4n <;tav chauvinistic on our end. 
MYERS: We will scay 


.1 ^h«l: is SO we can use the docking equip- 
Actually that is so we ^ f j-he conmand 

^nt that 1. presently ^^^J^^^^^^^^^^' drogue for one end of 
^dule and wejust ^^^^^^f^r androgynous system 
th« docking module, ^hen we noun ^^^^^ 
or unisex, or whatever. °" ^.^V^°^"he fronteod of the Soyuz. 
an identical androgynous system on the ^^^^^^ concerned 

That way we get '"for the experiment on 

and then give ourselves the set up 

the far end. 

question: a couple o£ questions for Glynn: 

r>^,r one. ha« "111 f ~f ,:°^rofce°nters'»ylng 
X-:^^^^^^ r lnr.rrh:nge «U1 there he. 

t^i, '»''«'""JiJ»^ri'c.r'a.tio^-" £1, th. soyu. 

trained "^S^^^*-' ft'//,"." t. that not the way It vould 
1£ necessary and vice ver»-, 


^ 'TUo*- we do not 

LUNNEY: That Is <^°'«^^J^ty be' able to fly 

r.;:c:"l"t':^ X-o^-c^u^^^e l^U not. .r . 


exataple, expect to train Soviet cosmonauts on how to launch 
and land our CSM's and vice versa. 

On the first question which you may not have all 
heard because of the mike, the question ' "J^^^^^^^^ 
intend to do about the control centers and how they work 

together , 

Well at this stage, as you would expect, there 
are a nunher of'things to be worked out. But we have soo-.e 
tieneral kind of agreement on how that would work. We have 
t^^eed each country would operate and control Its own space- 
Jfaft from the control center in the fashion they ^"ked 
out We have agreed there would be preplanned exchanges of 
riiforcnation between the two control centers and between the 
spacec raf t . 

We have also agreed we would operate on the basis 
of trying to preplan contingency or abnormal activities as 
far a^ possible so that if we had anything go out of the 
ordinary, like we sometimes do, ve would be working, as we^ 
do ou^ program, drop back to established P'^'>^«^"^««^^^^^ 
we have tried either on simulators or in some other fashion. 
So the control centers would operate relatively unilaterally 
with their own spacecraft. 

However, they would have to in all cases keep the 
other side informed when they were doing ^jl^^^f^^^^Ji^g 
nff^nt for exa«Dle the time of rendezvous, the tl»e ot docKing 
« wh«h« we Zld'have to delay a particular activity.^ Theae 
«. the kind of things which would affect our co^on activity. 

^hey would be coLunlcated and dUcu...d. but the regular 
o^rltlon of the vehicle would proceed about aa we Vnow U 
today . 

QUESTION: What abo\it tracking? 

LUNNEY: Again, relative to tracking ^^^^'^^'[y- 
we would expect to use the tracking that we have, the tracking 
network tha? we have. We do not Intend to modify o^^. /"^^"^ 
?o deceive tracking or W fro- the Russian ^P^^ecraft Now 
ve probably will at some stations be able to hear voice. 

QUESTION: Do you plan any Joint recovery activities 
in spite of the difference in techniques used^ 

LUNNEY: No. we have not planned anything like that. 


Lct ne «ay this again, alnce it haa come up a nundscr of times. 
The entire context in which this is being eonducted is one of 
trying to define for the future the kind of systeias we will 
use to rendezvous and dock in space, the primary purpose being 
rescue and the secondary purpose then which would naturally 
accrue would be one of conducting planned joint cooperative 
exercises we have agreed upon ahead of tieae. So in that con- 
text we are focusing our attention on the systems required to 
allow ua to randesvous and dock. And we are deliberately trying 
to avoid extraneous or no-end-in-sight discussions on every- 
thing else we might do. 

QUESTION: Glynn, I assume that the Russian comouni- 
cation center will be at Baikonur. Obviously, our is MSG. 
But it is Baikonur. 

LUNNEV: I don't know, 

QUESTION: Jon Spivak with the Wall Street .Joomal . Dr 
Fletcher, what happened to the idea of using the Salyut in 
this exercise? 

FLETCHER: That is a long story. But I will see 
if I can do it quickly. When we first started out no partic- 
ular vehicles were decided upon. All we were trying to do was 
set specifications for a rendezvous and docking for any such 
vehicles we might decide to use. That was back in October 
of 1970. 

Then in about January, 1971, George Low suggested 
to Academician Keldysh chat we do just what we are now 
doing, that we try to dock an Apollo CSM with a Soyuc space- 
craft. And no mention was made of Salyut because at that 
time there was no Salyut. 

Then in a later meeting down in Houston after the 
Salyut was placed In orbit and things seemed to be going 
reasonably well the Soviets then proposed the possibility of 
rendezvousing first one of our Apollos with their Salyut 
and then even suggested that perhaps some day one of their 
Soyuz could rendezvous with one our Skylabs as a kind of 
symmetrical arrangement. But we only had one Skylab, so 
we could not comply with the second part. But that was 
kind of foremost in our minds until quite recently when we 
began to look -- we both the Soviets particularly and 
ourselves began to look at the technical problems involved 
in modifying the Salyut to carry out the rendezvous and 
docking mission. It turned out to be too complicated for 
a first try and our folks, Glynn, and George Low particularly, 


agreed it was too complicated and decided back on the original 
proposal which was a Soyuz with a CSM. 

QUESTION: Giynn Lunney, couldyou go over again, 
how hard is this two man each spacecraft and what are the 
possibilities of three flying at each end. Can you go over 
the exchange as to how many tiroes we will exchange. And 
isn't it a mission rule that one man has to be in the CSM at 
all rimes. And I suppose the Russians have the same rule. 

LUNNEY: Today the Soviets have indicated they 
would fly two cosmonauts. Today we have not yet made up our 
mind whether we will fly two or three. The decision depends 
upon detailed timelining of the activities so that we can 
determine if there are any obvious advantages or disadvantage? 
to having three or whether we would prefer two. And secondly 
some better understanding for what experiments we might fly 
which would determine what kind of stowage, et cetera, that 
we would have in the command module, the space allowable 
being some facCor in deciding how many people to fly. 

Now in considering the sequence of transfer, 
we have established a couple of ground rules that we have 
both agreed upon. One is that whatever transfer sequence 
we went through we would always keep one American in the 
consnand module cockpit. The Soviets feel the same way, they 
would keep a Soviet cosmonaut in the Soyuz cockpit. We have 
agreed there would not be more than two men in the docking 
module at one time. The docking module is sized to handle 
two suited crewmen. We have masks in there for two people, 
and we just would not put any more than two in. 

We have also agreed there is one more limi- 
tation 1 will leave it at that. That is all 1 can recall, 
Tom. Those are the kind of ground rules we have agreed upon. 
Now precisely what sequence we go through depends upon the 
argument or discussion about how many people we have in the 
command module and the kind of experimental activities 
which will be carried out. 

QUESTION: You had a script that involved Salyut, 
that two guys would go into the Salyut and stay there and 
then a Russian would come back into the CSM. Is there not 
soioe kind of script for this? 

LUNNEY: We did, but it is slightly altered by the 
fact that the Salyut being a bigger device apparently had no 

limitations on how many people could be in there and how long 
they could be in there. In this particular case the Soyuz, 
not so much in terms of the volume of the ship as in terms of 
the kind of consumables they have put on board it, will have 
some limitations on the number of people and length of time they 
stay there. So we have to more fully understand those with 
the Soviets to know whether we would have two people there 
for four hours or four for 36 hours. It remains to be under- 
stood better. 

QUESTION: I'd like to follow up on a question that 
was asked in our other conference about the air-to-ground 
and how this is going to be handled. Can we be assured that 
we are going to hear everything coming from our end of it 
even when our guys are interfacing with the Russians? 

FLETCHER: I think yes you can have that assurance. 
What we can assure you is that you will near everything 
that comes down to our command centers from our own space- 
craft. We cannot assure you you will hear and see everything 
that comes down from the Soyuz. 

QUESTION: Does that mean that possibly when the 
guys link up that they won't be saying anything to mission 
control ? 

FLETCHER: I think that has to be worked out, 

Ever ly . 

LUNNEY: And we are planning to carry conauni- 
cations equipment, radios and television cameras through 
to the Soyuz, so that when our men go on through they would 
carry hard lines which connect them by voice and hopefully 
run a television camera from the Soyuz back through our 
systems to the networks. 

QUESTION: Is your tracking network adequate or 
capable of covering the entire orbit, or do you have to rely 
on any of the Soviet tracking stations? 

FLETCHER: Our tracking network is adequate because 
the orbit we will be flying is very similar to the Skylab 
orbit, within one degree or so. 

QUESTION: A kind of follow up to Totacy's question 
here: If I read you right, you are saying that had a Salyut 

been involved we likely would have flown a three -man crew 
and the Russians would have flown a three-man crew? That is, 
the absence of a Salyut is what is causing the reduction in 
the number of people? 

LUNNEY: Well, first off, from their choice, the 
number of people they fly is completely a function of their 
ship and how they can configure it. And in this case they 
have selected two. Even in our preliminary plans on the 
Salyut we kept open the question of whether we would fly 
two or three people. This is still open today. And 1 hope 
we can decide it within the next month or two. 

QUESTION: What will determine whether we fly 
two or three? You said something about experiments, but 
what other factors will be involved? 

LUNNEY: Well, the other factors are precisely 
how the timeline will work and how satisfactory it will be. 
In other words, we will try to create a time line with 
two men, two '^"rerican astronauts >and see how many people 
we have .wherei for how long and how convenient the time line 

Secondly, we will do the same thing with three 
toen and see whether there are any obvious advantages one way 
or the other out of that kind of comparison. Likewise, we 
are going to try to consider what experiments we might have 
in the comnand module volume and the cockpit itself in order 
to tee whether any space that those experiments might require 
would influence our decision on having the third couch in 
there, for example. 

QUESTION: The types of experiments you are tnlking 
about are earth resources, post-rendezvous and docking or 
during rendezvous and docking? 

LUNNEY: The experiments we are talking about are 
really not yet defined activities that we could perform 
from the covoand nodule, from inside the command module. 

QUESTION: When Dale Myers was speaking he mentioned 
one of the objectives of the mission was getting experience 
in joint flight for any rendering of aid and rescue situation. 
In dealing with organizing the activities for this flight, 
what consideration was given to similating emergency situations, 
soisething like an evacuatlor of one of the modules into the 


th«r which would be needed during an actual rescue misalon? 

- LUKNEY: We haven't exactly planned a deliberately 

•taged reacue play in the aitnulation. Our primary goal in 
the aiaulatlon will be to stage problems so that both crews 
would understand how they should respond to those problems 
I m not answering y»ur question . 

^ QUESTION: I didn't mean that. I meant actually 

during the flight, while you are in the docked position, will 
you at that point be simulating any kind of rescue maneuvers? 

LUNNEY: Not exactly, except that the very fact 
Of having done it, having rendezvoused, being able to dock 
being able to equalize the pressure between the two vehicles 
and transfer people is precisely a test of being able to rescue 
But we are not going to add any extra burden to that already 
fair-sized task. . 


QUESTIOH: When might joint training begin and 
how many months joint training do you anticioate? And you 
^aid we have not picked a crew yet. but you sort of Implied 
•■he Russians have. 

LUNNEY: The second one first: I didn't mean to 
imply that, if I did. I only meant they have decided they 
w«nt to fly two rather than three people. When exactly we 
would start training is yet to be determined. We would hope 
to work out a training plan this sunmer when a delegation 
from the Soviet Union visits us in Houston. And it will start 
and go o" and end in a fashion that in our traditional style 
we will be satisfied that the men know how to handle any 
problems they will encounter. 

QUESTION: Dr. Fletcher, at the previous briefing 

you said there is no commitment for a second mission In 1976 

You are not closing the door on the possibility of that are' 
you ? . ■ ' 

FXETCHER: Not at all. We regard this as a first 
step In International cooperation. 

Any further discussions though are oubject to 

iM.^^°^^?''*'*'^:™*'^^ ^"""^^^ ""^""^ f^^e^^l government 

which Includes 0MB, 


I think that although we can envision these things, 
there is no coMaittnent on either side to do it. 

QUESTION: I missed the earlier briefing. Did you 
say when in '75 you hope to conduct the mission? 

FLISTCHER: I do not think we have settled on a 
month in '75. 

QUESTION: The President said it was in June, in 
Moscow, by the way. 

FLETCHER: That may be, although we get different 
opinions from Moscow when we talk to different people. I 
think at the present time 1975 is the target date. And 
until we start laying out the schedules which mtist be 
agreed to by both sides, I do not think we can even say 
absolutely that it will be in 7.975. 

DONNELLY: We will take two or three more questions 
then cut to the other centers. 

QUESTION: A couple here. One for Glynn. Do you 
envision as this project gets underway having a semi-permanent 
Soviet liaison office at MSG and vice versa, a semi -permanent 
MSG liaison sosewhere in the Soviet Union. 

LUNN'ZY: Not yet, 1 do not envision that. If I 
had to guess, I would say that would probably not happen. 
1 would expect that the normal process of business chat 
we are going to have to conduct is going to cause on a 
fairly regular basis people to be in each other's country as 
any additional business needs to be handled. 

QUESTION: Would you for both the project and 
flight have to establish special lines of conaminication 
•OMirtiere, say the hotline type of operation. 

LUNNEY: Certainly when we get to the oper- 
ation we will have to have connunlcation lines in the sense 
that we now have connunications lines to all rernite sites 
fron Houston. Yes, we would have the same kind of lines. 
We have had some dlscur^sion about what klhd of lines they 
are, whether they are voice, data or what. But we would 
have to put those kind of lines in and check them out and 
test them just like we do on our own flights. 

QUESTION: For Dr. Fletcher: What are the ftictors 
that make 1975, as you have described it across the street, 

FLETCHER: I think it is only that we have not 
laid the program out as a first point. And the second 
point: I think the Soviets are a little squeamish about 
being pinned down to a date this early in the program, and 
properly so. If they are pinned down to a 1975 date that 
.vould be a new first for them. 

QUESTION: I know this is a long, long range pro- 
jection, but is there any thought so far given to the idea 
that given Che expense of duplication of effort to somewhere 
at say the turn of the century ticoe period to combine all 
this so that two cosmonauts and two astronauts will go up 
in the same ship or things like this. Is this what you are 
leading to and would you like to work towards this? Has 
there been any talk of this? 

FLETCHER: I think that is the hope. And I think 
the implication of this first mission is that we could cooper- 
ate in space, particularly in a manned space program and 
save duplication of effort between the two countries. They 
could do part of the mission and we could do another part. 
And 1 think that is the implied hope on both sides. 

DONNELLY: One final question here, please. 

QUESTION: At one time I understand there was a 
study rf the differences in cos^ between using a simbay or 
not using it, and that would be for your earth resources 
orbital science. Have you all decided whether the budget 
allows for fixing up the simbay? 

FLETCHER: I think for planning purposes we have 
decided not to use the CSM with the simbay. However, we 
can still change our mind in the next month or so or some- 
thing like that. We don't at this point think it is such 
a wise idea to do too much in the way of scientific experi- 
■ents on such a delicate mission as this. It %rouId be pretty 
coi^>llcate<l both technically and operationally working with 
the Soviets as it is. We are not stire we want to coapli- 
cate it with too many scientific experiments. 

D0NNE11.Y: Let us go now to the grt«t State of 

Texas . 


QUESTION: After the last meeting in Moscow officials 
here acquiesced to a Russian request at least that is what 
we were told -- not to release any details of that meeting for 
several months, while we were told minutes of that meeting 
were being approved. Is that going to be the standard pro- 
cedure while doing business with the Russians? 

FLETCHER: I think you are probably referring to 
some of tht working group meetings that were held for some time 
in Houston and some time in Moscow. And at every one of those 
so far, of which there have been three I believe, the Soviets 
have requested us not to release the full text of the minutes 
until a 60-day waiting period to be sure that their side 
agreed in detail with the minutes . Although we always have 
released a synopsis of what took place, both sides have, 
inraediately after the meeting. 1 do not know whether that will 
be a pattern. I think it is quite possibly a pattern, but 
it is not at all definite. We are not committed to that 

QUESTION: How large a group of astronauts would 
be involved In training, aod has there been any agreement 
that only men who have fiown in space will go on this flight? 

LUNNEY: Relative to the latter, no, there is no 
such agreement as that. And, secondly, how many people will 
be in training remains to be determined. But I expect we 
will train, as always, a prime and s back-up crew and possibly 
some others. Although I do not have any reason to say that 
we would train any more than the prime and back-up crew 
right now. 

QUESTION: What about the economic benefit of 
an extra 4A00 people going to work? How long can they expect 
to be enf>1oyed and where; 

FLETCHER: 1 think in the press kit that was dis- 
tributed which I do not have a copy of, it has that data. 
By the end of '74 I think it peaks at 4400, to give you a 
feeling for the average number. In June of '73 it might 
be as many as 2400. And in June of '74, 4000. And June of 
'75, 3700. These are not to be taken precisely, but that 
is an approximate estimate of employment for the contractor 
on the docking components. 

DONNELLY: A copy of that ia not available at )ioustoa 
rl^.-i'.. now, but we will send it do%m on the magic machin«. 

QUESTION: How "wny CSM'« would b« available; that 
is, that are now in existence or partially so for flights 

beyond '75? 

MYERS: There is a vehicle which is now planned 
to be a back-up for the Sky lab. There would be th« vehicle 
we are presently planning to use for this flight. And there 
are two additional CSM's that are in various levels of 
completion. So it gives a total of four possible flights. 

QUESTION: Glynn, when do you expect the Soviets 
to come over for the sunmer meeting here? 

LUNNEY: With respect to one of the traditions 
we have in the United States, they will be here on July 5th. 

QUESTION: Since cooperation seems to be in the 
air I am wondering have there been any discussions of 
cooperating and sharing the earth resources type of camera 
work which you will be getting from Skylab, noting that 
Skylab's Inclination would take it over the Soviet Unions- 

FLETCHER: Skylab per se I do not believe has been 
discussed, at lecst not in depth. But we do have a Joint 
working group on the natural environment which is a part of 
the agreement which the President signed tod«y. And surely 
we are talking now mostly about exchanging of data on instru- 
ments. 1 think when the time comes we will certainly discuss 
the exchange of actual photographs and earth resources data. 

QUESTION: This Is Pat Howe of the Birmingham 
News i have two questions: One, how long has NASA been 
Involved In discussing this Joint venture? And the second 
question Is wlT ^ny of the UhOO new workers mentioned be 
enploved at the Marshall Space Flight Center or in Hunts- 
vllle, rtnd If so how many would you anticipate. 

FLETCHER: 1 will answer the first question. We 
have been Involved In International cooperation since NASA 
was first organized. In fact, It Is part of the statute 
setting up the NASA. The particular discussions that have 
led to this agreeme-^l; that was signed today started in 
October of 1970 in which a number of groups were set up to 
try to work the problem of rendezvous and docking. This was 
follovcd by a meeting in January of 1971 In which five Joint 


worklng groups were set up to look at unmanned activities f nd 
in which it wa» agreed to exchange lunar samples. So there 
waa a sequence of events which started back very vigorously 
and energetically in October of 1970. 

KYERS: As far as the employment is concerned, we 
haw a breakdown of the manpower estimates. 

QUESTION: Will any of the 4400 new workers be 
employed at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville? 
And if so, how many do you anticipate? 

MYERPr We are anticipating in the southeastern 
area which woulo include Htintsville and the Cape totals that 
would peak at about 1300. Now I do not have a breakdown 
between the Huntsville area and the Cape area, but the 
SlB launch vehicle is involved and that is managed out of the 
Huntsville area. 

QUESTION: There is a mention here of the build- 
up of the space shuttle to support this effort. Will Marshall 
Space Might Center benefit by this? 

FLETCHER: Well, the Marshall Space Flight Center, 
.IS you probably know, has a very m^Jor role in the develop- 
ment of the shuttle since it is already now responsible for 
the derelopment of the space shuttle engine and is actively 
involved in the management and systems engineering of tha'c 
program. That is probably not the end of the program, 
because there are tanks and solid boosters and many other 
parts of the shuttle not yet determined, it Is extremely 
likely that Marshall will end up with some of that progrom 

VOICE: That is all the questions. 

BONNElLY: Are there any further questions at this 


QUESTION: Dr. Fletcher, thi s Is fl very non- 
scientific and non-space ^question, but if 1975 is an "iffy" 
date, then the next year would be 1976, the 200th anniversary 
of the independence of the United States. Would that have 
any impact or any complicating or other type Impact on the 
first Joint U.S. -Soviet space venture? 

FLETCHER: 1 don't think so. Our planning is for 


1975, the U.S. planning. And it Is hopeful that schedules will 
be developed around that date. There are no signals we have 
been getting from anywhere in the United States to change that 
date. The only reason I say that the 1975 date is somewhat 
iffy 1 didn't say "very," or at least I hope 1 didn't 
it simply is not a firmed up date on both sides. 

QUESTION: Dr. Fletcher, since you are engaged in 
non-negotiations with North Ai-crican, when do you expect to 
let a contract on the docking module, about when? 

FLETCHER: It probsbly will be in a very short 
tlice, but the problem is simply we have to go through a 
sequence of events before we can do anything like that. 
The first thing that has to happen is that Dale has to pre- 
sent to me a Justification for a sole source procurement, 
and that event has not taken place. When that takes place, 
proposals will be requested, assuming the justification is 

And if the proposal is satisfactory, then nego- 
tiations will start. That will take several weeks or siaybc 
a month or two. 

QUESTION: Do you anticipate this su«»er, this 

fall? ' • 


K^ERS: We certainly expect to be under contract 
this suimer. 

DONNELLY: If that Is all, thank you, ladles and 

gentlemen . 

(Whereupon, at 5:00 p.m., the press conference 
was concluded , ) 














NASA HQ M72-4052 

294 CM 

NASA HO M72-605I 




103-162 N.MI. 





3A':;:- j: 











^Ai^KH c:':j(ci?o"^^oro 


fiGURE 1 


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DA5£ /■•O lu\':rL 


NASA HO M/'2- 6049 


7150 MM 

* — — —i — , — . — ■ ■ .» 

1 12900 MM 1 

NASA HQ Mn-604S 


March 30, 1973 


Prof. KonBlantin D, Bushuyev, U. S. S. R. Tectaical Director 
Dr. Glynn S. Lunney, U. S. A. Technical Director 
Dr. Alexia Tatistcheff, intei-preter 
John E. Biley, Puhlic Affairs Officer 


PAO Good afternoon ladies and gentlenen. ; This is the final day 

in the current sessions cf Apollo/Soyuz test project r.eetings 
between the Soviet Union and the United States. We have the 
technical directors of each country vith us today to report 
to you on the events cf the past tvo weeks, I believe you 
know both of ther. by this tine. Dr. Glynn Lunney ar.d 
Professor Konstantin Bush'Jo^ev. Dr. Lunney. 

LLHiliEY Ladies and gentlemen, we have had a neetir.g of all five of 

the working groups plus Professor Dushuj'ev an-J r.yself neetir.g 
actively for the last two weeks here h\ tht- center. As I 
told you at the beginning of the meet ing, there are a nurber 
of specific subjects that we had to discuss. But in general 
the kind of work that ve were doing wafi to further detail and 
to further advance the work that ve had already begun in the 
previous meetinge. We have actually dom? exactly that in 
the last two wieKs. We have handled a nunber of specific 
subjects , which I will touch upoi., but indeed ve have spent 
most of our time taking all of our agreeRente to cnt tt.ote 
level of detail, Ve have, just to give you an i den, we had 
a review of h11 of tr.e schedules associate;) vith the project, 
that is the Profeseor and I did, and we find that still every- 
thing is on schedule . We talked about a subJCvH which is 
becoming fairly eminent in th^ prc^rm aftd that's the traininr. 
the actual faailarization and training, of the astronauts and 

■ , ...e-rave laid cut p.relinir.ary ... 
cosmonauts, /a.a -e nave .^^ ^ ..^ ,,,, ,1,0 Uii 

twitv for those activities. -e 

out so..e of >.he fomat a.d types c. doc^- 

^ot-e discussion Bbou*- 
,e usedonbcrd. Ve have had so...e 

^^on. ari vou heard us discuss at the -ir.. 
rdssion operutions ar.. ,0 _,,..ol 

in each cl.^.ers Cv....oi 
-or.^ce the use of^ 1- « 
'-.ress confert.iCe -'."^ . 

v,.Tr, ou- . Ve've agreei on t.^e ca-- 
center LJ to help o^- ■ 

• ^ tpr-s of the requireffier.--= , 

between '-he control cu-e. 

a...iop.n. ------ 

■ v.d a scl of exper'.nents. At this 
we reviewed- .c rev.ev.d a sc. 

. „.,, lvoxad have to Characterise our ou^.^ 
stage of our t.vU..5 ^ 
sions on experiments still fairl. . 

t« -hat that bcth Sidcc 

,.ur« to «nv particular oxp.rSoent» for the ul..- 
„c hav. laid out a ached... o. 

hopo to arrive at .one c^ncl.^lo.. V, • • 
„hcre ve would hop^ _ 
h.dafalrhitof di.cua.ioao.. 

„f .van.fer procedures betveen .he 
,hei3cyu.. Ve »»rKed Oh the cahle 

, and precaxition. to ta^. against 

about namntility and ^.eeU and p 

flaEinability . We talked about some, oh perhaps lesser dc - 
more detailed subjects, but of soce inportance and sor.e 
discussion in the past. We talked about the possibility of 
reentering astronauts and cosmonauts in the other ship in 
contingency situations. And we exchanged sone dsta on the 
size of our crevnen. We vorked on the trajectory plar.s and 
ve ended up actually noving the tine of the rendezvous on 
the first Apollo la'-mch opport'oriity fron aj prcxin&tely one 
day after lift-off to approximately tvo days after lift-.:ff. 
We Etlll have work to do on the question of the se'iis in the 
docking systea and ve laid again out a further test prograr. 
in wliich ve vill be exchanging seals and dcing r.pre t^^Fts on 
the seals vith the intent of discussing the results in June 
and arriving at a final configuration. I guesa I eight to 
say also in terr.s of trying to characterize the vork for you 
as I did earli'"'-, that the ter;po and the aor.ent-on of the 
vork on the project is picking up and indeed has already 
reached a surprising c^eed. As a matter of fact, for alaost 
the next year ve have a meeting of, either In Houston or 
in Moecov, of not all the vorking groups but sop.e nenlers of 
the vorking groups, alaost evej-y jionth. There might be a 
month or tvo in there that ve'll riefi but there vill be ein 
activity, a Joihl activity, on the project almost every aonth 
from hcv until fte far as wt-'ve laid the pita dovn on pnp<?r, 

LUNNEY vhich is ab^ut a year froo nov. With th- I would ask 

Professor Eush'j:rev perhaps to a i>v remarks to you and ' 

then we would try to answer ycxr questior.. 
BUSKUYEV Ladies ar.d, ay colleague Dr. Linr.ey told you about 
the resuli a and conclusions and work done at cur r:eetir^ 
during March of this year. I fully a^ree with ever-ything he 
has Just told ycu. And c-viously I will not reteat what he 
said because I don't var.t to take too =uch of your valuable 
•■ise. I will say that our work hero in Houstor. was 
perfomed v: th very good result?. Th-is vc^s r:ado possible 
by the fact that both sides prep&red ther-seives %-er:,' seriously 
for this meeting. We achieve.1 great progress ir. solvir.g raany 
technical and organizational tjuestionE. Ttiit , of co irse , 
eotsaits us to go forward with a certain *j&o-i'.t cf certainty 
in 6ur v>rk to a final conpletion of the pr-.;rrao of this 
.^oir.t flight. I would like to take this o..^sion ag.i: 
to thanX Dr. Kraft &r.d Dr. Lur.ney for the n.-narkably po(.d 
Cu^Utlons that were created hero for us ir. Kov.Eior. for this 
Joir.t and very fruitful labor. I m sure that that is c-rst 
of the reasoi.e why we were able to achieve so nuoh iv.rlr.g 
this seeling. 2 would like Aleo to note that our work v>is 
hel|«i by the spirit of fMendship and tr/atual undfrrstwiding 
vhl eh exists between us. And th« teodency in both -.ides to 
eeek & rational conprofeise in &11 the complicated and difficult 

to vork hard ar.J fruit:>ally bur v 

^' ^*ve - to enjoy verv 

good ail d pleasant relaxatirsn i • ^ ' 

•ela^ation during the fev days when ve 

-enotoccp.ed.nthecrnoe. We ... .,..,3 re.r.her 

vuh .ratuu.e t... Sunaa. vUcH ve vere prlvUe^.a 

Bpend at the ranch of Governor D^iel The • , 

rhe hospitality 

that ve encourr orci-j 

•^ver laagino. U Is precisely there at 

^ vr.ere, at that ranch, tha' 
ve got the feeling of real Texas A., r 

convinced Of the Xlnd or and. a^enei 

, , , , -aiented people 

on the liorse. for a Dorent I h*, . 

I bet:ar. to feel like a real 

ccvboy. It is possible that 

that 13 the reason vhj- the next 
^K^' I vas even -ore ep.erK-Mo In^. 

I would liKe once again 

, ^ ' ^"'^^"^- ^^^-leleg.tio,,. 

— that ..had a .reat Pleasure and 

say than)-.-vou to n1 ■ ♦v.^ . 

, 1.0 axi those vho r'n--t..<v. . j ' ■ 

•^'''''•^^'^^thls fruu.^.1 - 

' - express ^ certainty that our jo<.. 
v-k in the :^.ture viil ,0 on as veil as i^ v., " , 

■IS 1^ has so far. 

'^^k you for your atter.tior,. 




Ue do have an orficia. vriUen Joint conwunlque on the 
results of the laeeting that vUl be distributed to you 
shortly. We aro ready for questions now. 
Yes. I got three points - First I vonder if Prof. BuBhjy^v 
before he leaves, might be able tj tell us this tine .ho the 
'.vo r-erters of the Russian flight crev night be. Secondly, 
Glynn, if you could explain a little bit further, on the 
reasons behind the shifting the rendeivous from the let to 
the 2nA day and along with that, I ar. vondering if this 
doesn't eat into the contingency pad as far as the Soviet 
spacecraft is concerned, as far as getting a f^ul E*8 hours 
together, and that eort of thine and thirdly, the - perhais 
you can go into more de'.ail on Just exactly vhat it looks 
like the training schedule, ai^d things that vill oe lone, 
and vhen they vill be done vith the cosmonauts ar.i astronauts. 
He wants t J knov about the naming of the crev, and then 1 
will answer the other two questions. 

During the tim'^ that ve spent working here I received no rew 
inforffiatior. , have no new information to give you on the 
cosraonauts that will be appolrited for this r.iss ion. But I 
would like to repeat what 1 ^aid before, that this will take 
place in the very near fi-turo. And the two cosnonauts who 
arc here now. Gen. Shatalov. lind Di". Yeliaeyev are excellent 
car.Jijates. both, of thex. 

„Mcn U real, .r.» ..ou. 1 oC t..- ApoiVo Uf.-orr 

. nft-olf. for the first 

to about 2 .^a,. after the Apollo lift OM , 

.„H--v At our last discuss icn las^ fall, 
launch opportu-.i v- '^^ ^ 

^ core corcern on ac^or.Fli8hing all 
the Soviet siae expressed sore concer 

. che-KS ar,d perfoming the maneuvera 
of the systena checks, ai-^ 

. 4 ♦> . 7-1/2 hour? available tu Chem, 
the SoT^z spacecraft in the /-1/2 

HI tViP ^-ire of the Apollo 
f,o. .he U.e or their Uft-off until 

at. -Off. we ve.-e oonoerned about the Ute.sity of th.t 

,„ofove.t.,p.. .-fact that the Plan .1. a,.u.e 

..a vehicle «.u.a he 1„ a .e.-taU. o-Ut ahl if there 

, ci^-^ the naneuver, at a given 

vere any reason to dec.Ae to slip 

.evolution, then the plan vouli be a lit.le bit avry. U 

out the activuy of the Scyu. spacecraft in establishing 
,,.,. .n a target orbit ^d to pe^.it a longer ti.e,t..t 
,3 ■ up to about 2 d^s for the Apono to rendcvo.. vun 

don't *hinh that this vill cut In any way 
the Soyus. >e don t 

, .-Mr*, the Soyuz spacecraft, 
into the operational li'--^r.e c- tn 

-1 ^r-. «. f>ftvs of nominal it is configured for at leas. 5 days 0 

„ viU , in effect , use 

fligh'., vith a days reserve. So v.. 

.,,,d.vs .t the bo.inning,r.therthar.l day, leading UP 
,.therende.vouo. On the training, Art , ou. pl.. is of 


« --ie- „.v. u ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ 

provide a series fir To. t, 

ci lectures on the spacecratX, prl.arUy 

in the eystecs that voulH ^» 

voald be cf «ost Import ar.ce d.rlr.f »he 
time or their visit, like the U 

the life support systen.. geroral 
•-niari.tionvi.h,_,_„^^^ O. th. v.McIear.-.e 
--.etc.. a., .he .ocKir. this, 

voiUd also hive a ve,.fij„ of 

Of ">V=«v activities pu,, ^^Uh 

' or t... , .... ^^^^^^ 

"""" '^"^ a„.1 tau.„, t,elr 

va;.- through 63 a form cf tr'iir^r . , 

/>^ere viU probably be so.e visit to the si.ula. 

emulator, as a 
-•atter of fac: ,:,e tvo cosmonauts vho are h. . 

° are here have already 

visited the sir.ulat.,. ^ 

cc.,.e o. occasions, and to th^ 
■-control center also, ^ 

^ .laiize then vith our 
ope.-ation herft &t the r.,v„„. ^ 

, ^ n^f-.. In the fall, probably 

in ^epte.T.ber. or October an*^ vizi- 
er, and VI .h ,,or.e car^ and scheduling 
aroi^id the FV-Orv „ . ■ . 

.c.vuies ve hav. ,ol„, 

' ■■^-■ri.^. >st.o.aut, ,o ,o 

""•"'""""^ e,„lva,e„t seH. 



lockups vouli exi.t by that ti 

vhen ve left here at , ' ' 

vhere A?'*.».{.,„ "-"^e, ig exactly 

control center, in ,tv„ 

^^-tcrall. tK.y viU visit pi.. . 

training and preparing for the 
then thov vin Vial, th. . / ' 
131. the control center vw^ 
°^ the night control 

ar.d the vehicle, .-ai be don. fro„ „, 
=°"trol .aitedore h " "'^'•^ 

tnese trios. At t>« icr ■ 

• ^ ^^'^ Present tice v 

" — — I3lt. J 

— Pletel.cWine. ^ - ~n. 

that they v-n , ^-^s^ ard ve hope 

^^11 clariiv and solve all t>, 

^ all the problep=i tv,' , 
occur. . ' ■ ■ ■ f.hal nay 

I aiu afraid 1 stlM ^ r 

sU.l don't u..dersta.Md vh.rc th 
center Is. ^ ^°''trol 

amazed at the insistence v:th 

question. We have several lo 
astronauts are trained ar.d fro. 

- especially a ^^^^^^^^ 
ieciall> appropriate for -le 

. tif course A"i«>.< 
"■i 'Peclalists vll, "=erl<:« astronaut. 

«" «c to . d«„„<, pu«. 

^'^"^y t« leading torn. 

n« ir.tQ more P>ia^ndcrstandlng her. « 

M,, ^^"''^^'^-^ a r-ev control center ' ^^^^^^^^ 

BU3hUYKV or course ve vM i ' ^'^'"^ ^-'^^ ^ 

^^ay. 80 teJl J., .v,.^ , 

*rpro.-<inately ther.. ' '"' ' ^ »«^' 

^ progra:- I vili 

, ^Pmar.tion Of astrona^ns ai- 
Willie use. ^. . ^°=°°-^t3, one center 

. , "^'•'^ ' ^ ^ave vlaited it i, f 

nor.ej after our crest , ^" 
great Jeceasei cosrona.n r 

QUL-RY .Wis.. "'V'^'^^^^^^^--i^'«Ie center. 

^-V^s the fa,H control enter ioca^ed ■ 
located in n . , '"^ ^« 

one that vou . 

•-■e believe viU ' ^^'^t 


DUSHUYi.7 ve Jeclde vhich one ve are .oing to u... of course ve 
vill pubiis.'i that 1 nf onnaticn . 

Do you a^res tlMt a conplex OFerailoi. or this viU 
r.qalre a F.rf.ct k:.cvledge of each ethers lan^-aag., includ- 
ing very intricate te,-r3? , And i f so . do you thiuk 
that that can br achieved ii! 2- -./S years? 
I think bcth of us fsel that the sufcess and safety of the 
flight is going to be enhanced alnsost proportionally, perhape 
to '.-.atever extent that ve can nake the astronauts and 
cosrr^nauts fluent in ea.h other, language. Hcvc-ver. ve've 
taken people who are fluent In both languages, for ex^pie 
Dr. Tati3t.heff here, the co.-.trol center ar.i he dcesr.'t 
undera-car,: a vord tnat 's reing said In English. And probably 
sor.. cf you have had the sar.e e::perience: Ve are really 
going to find a need to create alr.ost our cvn equivalent oi' 
jciiit vocabuUry thnt ve have in our cv:, prcgra.-.. I don't ■ 
want to nininlze, and ve have TaU intention to train as 
far as ve j.ossibly can cur astrona-.ts and the oosr.cnuuts . 
I unders-.anf, in the lang.;.ge of the other coi^try. In 
addition to that, ve are starting to cre^.-.o special opera- 
tional vocabularies th^.r. ccl-i use for rcth ncnnal and 
ca.tingency acticr.r,. Ve are also tr-ying to prepare aU the 
doc...''.entaticn that ve vo^old use onboard; that U, checklists, 
flight plans, et cetera, in tvo languages and ve vill probably; 


-r.i. that v.u^a I. e- -ounei ng 

• bo tnat perhai-2 io ^ l-r. . 

^'^'"^ answar tc your 

F-'^-ta, ve re goin^^ to .1. all v. 
to naJt.» then; f , ' ' 

^ ■ "iwe thcai in 

,,,, . ' '^*' ope..ati.r.a:. vocatulao^ that 

both vou.l.i be C^n^r . 

^or swae a-oi*r.t of . * 

°^ prior to the m^y. 

2 years. Okay"! ^ 
O^-ynn, on the h^iB>na3<= ^-r „ 

' i'Tooecures v~'- 
nentiontfi, have vti , . ^ 

6>-> first tj vh',^», 

..t,- ■ -, -, Situation 

be dvivin,vhen they dock 

-irr., tho pcoond rart of . . 

' ^"'^'^"^^ ^ ^"'-r.-t reeilv ,aid 

-ion to VP* 7__ 


^o^-^ing. As to th. transfer, vo. vo ha " 

• .-ef, ve have vorked out 

a procedure for the 'rsno^ 

_ -^nafer a.! Vho goes fl.«t is .Jeter- 

en,n.eering consideration that vo veld 

""^ ^--ins nodule, vhlch is ^rans. 
^ ■•^'^ -ransfor rodulc. to 

^T-rated by at least one A..erica.- a . 

"..ericar.. And on the first 



visit th^t mostn. reallv tn'.t tv- a.. • 

tv. Air.ericnr.s f;o through the 
^ocUn, nodule Mrst and into t^e S.-> 

° the Soyuz a:ia then thrv 

^ ■ ^ r, tnk next ,vo 
80 over ar,d thr^n th^v ^ " 

- ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ 

«yn,.. or, , .,e,e experJ^enLa c«, yo-. „, . 

vfui yoli characteri -'»» ♦j,^ 
— crvhat vou'.v -c.g.,..,,i 

havo yov:-. i3 
, . ^ * -r./ into 

: ^^^^ ~' ^„ 

-r-'Mr Gpacpcraft? 

Ci^-iy , lei re see i <■ t ^c, 
rroro.ei scr.. experiments - I.,. 

r.o Just rattlo r y,^c-a^.h the 
-'- ^ •- ■ side prcposei Rv >>,^ 

^'v -''d. available for 

discussion since ve iW-. - 

"-V^^.v of tnest' thirgs 

. Pi-oposed core 

things In ..ho area or ..eJi.^i • 

' tion or the crcv. An. 

th-t is the dirrerent onvlrcr..e.^ 3 tha< • . 

- ■ ■ ■ • ■'-^J' E-^iu the i\i r':,; 

sair.pling them, vhlch is a fatrly straight foj-vfirl thing. 
We talked about rhotography and perhaps aome oth-r serising 
of the ERi'th ani cbeervHticn of the oceans in vhat could 
be characterized as an earth resources class of activity. 
We have looked at gone physlt^a types of experitr.ento , BOf-e 
of vhlch could be done unllaterallv ;vocv ^mt spacecraft 
for exar.ple, ihiri^a like releosinj? gases and observing 
Ionization of the gaaea in r.rJer to gain an insight Into 
planetary ataospheres and things like that. We have also 
considered the possibility of trying to get a better under- 
stw.ding of the magnetic fields of the Earth by employing 
an electron beam e^'S-, which would bo operated from one ohlp 
aivi detected vith receivers onboard the other ship. That's 
•i fairly coKiplex one thct v.-,uld be difficult to perforr;. 
sir.ply in a hardware sense, and there would be cyerationai 
1 imitations also, tut it is being discussed. There are 
otner experiments which are in the cat-^^or/ of the exporiment 
you would be fandliar vith from SKylab which are sort of 
technolo^ oriented, like the furnace and thfj meTLnK cf 
netals, ot cet-ra. On the Soviet side, they proposed sioiilar 
exrerinier.ts In the ai'ee. of the r.._dical cnos thtt ! describee, 
also the idea of ina>.ing observntions of the Earth vaq also a 
proposal. They alto talked about so-^e polar corona photog- 
raphy using one of the ether vehicles to occult the Sun. 

""^^ ''''' <^-- that for .o.e reason . 

-t was ve consl.ere. earlier in 
program.. a.-,a that vas to ^'^ier in 

''IS to measure « certain ». 

^ in t-iina of cosmic rav-i ♦> / 
earth orMt B.t x ^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ I.e. i. 

'^^-SS as preli.i,,^, , " 

^ one oi thoia on either side '->,c 
a fl^.-t . ^® meeting vrs 

^ Of these kind of thingc . 
''^change soi.e irf ^'^ going to 

' infor..ation on thea next aont, .... ' 

in June and ther tr-^ 
V. . , . ^ ""^^^ decide v-at 

really .ant to do in Julv 

'hich ve nave to choose . But , 
those e.™,,3 .^^^^ ^ 

iits. Therefore ve arA 
'Ourselves the r .-h t reservi r.g 

both - on both sidec 

-^^•e to thinking about it. We «r« 

h- . esrccifLlIv 

.m. t:r.e still r«2-T.its ,« ♦ 

t -i.ilLS Lis to «lvp » K { - 

ve liavc nevertheless a ver. co ' ' 

• «=oncrete specific pu.. to 

frepare this scienMn. 

■ ■ ■ Soviet side . , ; 

the tovr.s vH.« th. tvo control «nWr. ,ou ^. con.l.- 
are loc.ed. Th.t i. - '^'^ '"^ 

^ .Ufferoncee in the Eurslan control carter th-- ==• 
„ ,0. as coopered vlth the American control center. *Uho.«h. 
or cour,e. I .-derstand that their function. vouU necessarily 
.0 the B.-.e overall, !•», .lK,.t parh.,,. UtVle differ- 
ence, in approach that .ou es,- folic, varans the United .tate. 
of Ar.erica. 

^SHU^KV nrst Of all on the e,act location of these centers. In our; 

ve have have to he with Patiencc. I pronise you 

that at our next visit vhich viU taXe plac in Jul,- ve ulU 
he ahle to sive you full satisfaction on this question. As ^ 
to the Characteristics of our control center and hov does it 

(.(-"ter. X JT-ust say that in 
compare vith the>can cont.ol ce...e. , 

.Hnciple there is no difference. And that is hee.use hoth 
eontrol centers are called upon to solve the s.»e prohle»s. : 

, A t« cnlvp these problems both 

And the eane technique is used to solve -ne F 

. Thprf- is a difference 

in the structure .itself, in the arrangements, inside the • 


control c-jMer ar.d vhere the various t/pea of equi^^ux. are 
located. But I cai. assure you that our centers are perfectly 
capable of solving the aar^ problems that are solvei in your 
control center. After your specialists ar.d your astronauts 
will have visited ther. I sure the;- vill be able to confirn 
vhat I 'a tuning you ncv £ut speE>.ir^ of your cor.trol center. 
I would like to say the follcvirg: I believe that ever/thing 
has teen thought through vith great care. The various equij- 
eent Is located in a very rational aanner. I happe.-.ei to be 
present in your control center recently during the trttining - 
experinental training in connection vith Kkylab, &.ni I becace 
convinced of soRething th^ii I vas quite certain of even before, 
vhat thL vork in your contj-ol center is reraarkably veil 
organizod. And there is, nothing rerarkal>le in that because 
after all ve have, the results'- the excellent results 'of ^/'.-■7^'' 
your Apolio progran prove it. 
Tha.'tk yo\i. 



Participants : 

Brigadier Ceneril Tho«as P s r . r f ^ 
Vance D. Brand ^ a; ford 

Oon«ld K. Slayton 

Glynn S. Lunney . Technical 

^irectot, ASTP 

Public Affairs Officer: 

John E . Ri ley 


Unjey. th,„ on. of ,h, «,.,..„ „in"";"l.; ih.. 
u«'ll go to iJiA. Clynn. ' words, th«n 

";'cic,:r Jc!."'n: „* . 'or:;: " 

crew or course, is always an exciting time for us in th« HlnL^ 
Pjc« busin... ana I think e.peclall? la th rpJ^J^^t 

K<*» agiiviiy. It started, of course, about two ve ir« Ta« 
vUh «o»e ««n«,,i discussion, .bout vher* ^Hht gJ ln^thc 

havf for uture rendezvous a»d dockir-s system,; And in the last 

?S sicra Hi h\ ''5 Planning and preparing the haLvare 

orthe ^ev^l if ; <l««Un«, with the Russian. In terms 

Of the level ot detail that we hav«> scne to. We have moved 
fro« fairly general discussion ..bput hov thing. couU Je don. 
vo. n oui last series of meetings, very, very detailed 
cusslons about connectors, wire ,ile,, the lengtSs ^ caMr 
r''*; k''* completed the first tes 1 1:, ' hat St^e ' 

conducted between the two countries last month in he!n« 
of the .wo-fifths icale docking mechanism. And that was done 
n Moscow. At Downey. C.lifarnia. the command .^JvLe ioduU 

^oc ing system that ve will be ^3 1 i r% t h a "!e ' 'b: \ ^ ^ 
during the mission. So. in de«d. the progress is bui d!r. 5n 
and as a matt.r of fact, is beginning L a.ce lerate We have ' 
here :[ T'm ' 'i'S '''^ '"^'^^ Delegation s = h...uled fo^ .!;:r:h 
flll.rA Spacec.att Center. And 1 thi^k ve looked 

forw.,rd to tne work we have to do for the rest of the project 
Ano again this nornln, I'm pleaded to be here. At this kind' 
o[fM??"'!''\-' Important and symbolic ..d I would lik. 
o ficially to cfter my congratulations to the cr«w. I think 
It 9 going to be a lot of fun working on this project. I 
know I'm looking forwarJ to it. foa. H J ^ • 

STAFFORD Thank you. Glynn. Well. It's always great 

CO be nancd to a crew, and for myself. it'U be <ood to set 
away from some of the paper work for a whiU- and get back to 
simulat on and training. However, that will be a ways down the 
road. rhe mission, the Apol lo-Soy Tos t Project, is probably 
going to he one of the difficult the manned space flight team 
has ever undertaken because it involves a different country 
a different language, diffeiont operating techniques, and ' 


.^.> I'll h« fivina with tJ»« Bla«ion. \«nc«t 

UInd ThlnM. to.. Wen. I'U really happy 

on this .iB.lon. I think aavf look back y«art fr«» now. It il 

St.ics; and continuing Vith » ^^^P""^^! J^.^J^ P[?;"!h» VrT 
win 1 think thers are a lot of t«chlilc»l benptUd that «ic 

► far thl* will be to continue on with SkyUb ana keep s-^iu 

train tor ini» wiii. w vm v all that sort 

lag a.p«rtlce in operating the co-»and module and JJ^^^*' 
, ,r «««« fi»e downstreaa uansfer a hundred pcrccni. 

\f thini> And at 8o»e tlwe downstreao wanafer a nunor«u t-.^^v 

3o.e in the ya.r and a half or .o^befor« » 
having worked with people fro. Other gov^rn.enta In i«e 
that I really look forward to this. U going to be a 

i:ro tun^rd'on'e of th. .oat >"^-''*[;j^;;^/"^t«Vl'' u^o'l over 
us in the office could be doing . So with that . I U turn 

^itlvTOS Well. I'd like to - I gueas It will take »e a 

s;urt.!"'hi -.i" .2%:in a«" the., °" " 

,e « ^to .pace ..d dld»'t <.ul « ..k. fj^' "other 

Clinic Kot me back on flying status, which again, it ' ; 

bitj Upo^sibie to fly this rr 

I thlnk'chuck has probably got V^"* t^r e tay* tn ? '^Bran 

sur«eon ia the world because ^^'^ ^^ »^ *\ '"^ J^e r e iVre- 

wiih .aUdles that by the dotln tlon of J^^'^^Jf J^^", i.^o 
triev.ble. And he', got two out of the ^^'^^ ."^{^Ji;* anybody 
f'.ar'is 1 'irettv ROod record. I don t inin*. -..j y / 
:',r:;..."hlrL:/^r/;L . or co„r,e a„.^h.. ^ -n- 

„„ b.h.U- Of 'll^YullT ' \ „ lo.sho, <i.c.»Ioa 

putting us on the flight. ^ ever had picking; 

in getting the crew on this ^i^'^^/*;"" ^/.'^^er there. AU ot 
^rpws for tliijhta because we ' ve got 3'i guys over en. i _ 
iJ^ou^d hivl liked to have ^--nded this one^an -re a 1- 
able to do it. and all who would have 

And I know Chris had a tough ^ ^ ^ ^ <>" ^ ^ ' ^no^ wo ■ re 

Ul vc-ry happy that he picked us to do the job f'^'l /""^^J' 
Jo ng to do i't right. And of course, we need also to thank 
George '.ow. Dr. Fletcher, and Dale Myers tor concurring in 


ChrU» decision, with ^ 
q«.»Mlon,. ^^'^'^ ct.«,«au I gue.s open up 

^nswor. What have yau*hl"d L*?k w>»o,ver can 

^ dtdn't follov that. ^ ^'^^'^ ^^^'^'f 8overn«ent« b«(or-? 

BRAND ■., 11, ^ . J ■■■■■■ ■ 

that about two years bef-»r« * HlgSt. Vt; dIJ aijrei 

-nnel.^i„eludln%%^%J;„^^; /i:/ i^^^^^ opera 1 1 on^ ["e r- 

to be identifUd In order to hiu tJ!! "^"^'^ Probably Jeed 

n«h the kind of coKBunlcation. fh *^*'' together tj e*tab» 

nece,«ary in order trco^Sult a S^h »^ ^^^i 

for ihi, fught. But I expect ?hat .J^ fo»«onauts .ighi be 
Will be naaed. if not. the J J «e ! ' \ ' they 

- i.jst a g.oup Of ca:dr:ir:,?"\;«jy^ — n.e ,i 

to 1966 I vorked with tli pe^^JJ f^^^ ^^^^^^ que, tic.. fro« 1964 
southern France. We vere tejf * J!?.';* Governncnt In 

'^fi that tine. «"in8 >.io<., „d other airplanes down 

Bin Cromie. 

QUERY To- Stlf7 ; 

«ad ,een the ki„d of eji "i'^t Hl^"'' Star City 

have you got any Idea of wh^t kf^H ihcy've got there and what - 
^9 in the fail? ' ^^""^ training youMl be goJn . 

STAFFORD We 1 1 I ' „« k ' 

»l«uiators; both their «i%.ion ^^'^ ^1°-" in their 

A« initial training real y b ? ^''^.f*^ ^ J^^*^^"* sl^tll'V/ 

taniliarl.ation because as of todaj L rh "'^^'^'^**^^^^^"^t'on 
have any .ockups or detailed procedure we vul „ot 

in tne aane way that when the Ameri^I^' can discus, aysteas 

to go^over to Star City ?a e tU. Ll? ^^1^"'"'^ are available 

step by step t Ine - I i ne w i 1 1 n r .h !k i . ^^'f '"'''^ ^''^"R to a 
year. But their «i s s i on s i »J 1^ r ^ ' * P^*" ^^e following 
Ha« a digital compute ^JhJ o i:; iT T"""'"^ '^'-^ 
it's a high fidelity .ockui n tiL {"f^^^^tor's console. 
QUERY *<-y "octcup in siaulalor. 

your Russian: and nulbe r' two' '^har ' ^'J^ " ""'"'^^ • ^ov ia 
do? '^hat does the docking aodule pHoi 

SLAY TON 1 i 1. 

1 studied a little bit hro"«h%'h!' ' t ve ry good . 

crew working on it. I ^H:'"^ o sT'lO h""'*' the SH^ 

based on that brief experience 1 n.L k but I think 

to get very P r o f 1 c 1 en t Jon • t « n \ *^ ' t e n t i .aes th a t ovi.h 

wUh. And secondly, the unc ions':? tTe'd ^^-^^'^ 
since this is the first t imT tlrrl ''^ ""^"^^ P^^ot, 
It a little difficult to dHc^ibr ^ guess I fin^ 

your choice between be a« th^ -*/°"l<l «ay you had 

neht or the first dockfn Bod ^ ITot the^«anned space 

'^ough ii„c to tell you. But I f/? ' 8"'^" ^ have a 

primarily ass oc i a t e t h t he sy ' e"L ' on^J ' '^"^^ ^ -""^ ^^afs 

y^ron.entai control svste. par 'c H and h 'r\'"* 

^ •'ssu.e it.n be 4 resp^ii^??^;-,^;-,--^-. 


f*i»lUdr vlih All the ^ 


^ think I'<j have lo f 
« been fitudyUg this wh^iT that 
X«ar. and h''/,;;:% J^^^^^ /or our director 

•"•iuar ihari I on what we night 

•ubject. Hn' 
tor the Usit 
<io there , 

dockings to ttst 
vl th for the tvo 
the detalU have 
at that time are 

yet ta b« worked out xhJ ' Pr opos i ng 

t^nv^,lo^ed that eve Jone irK^ ''^ ''^^'^'^'^^ 

everyone - e^ch one of the three 

PUota you know. Hy ,h% alJiJI ^iifferent teit 

through all o.r nodes to teat thf '° r^^"^"'- ^» 

need »or^ than one it we h^ll ^''^^^ »yate». we are aoin. , 

QUERy Lr rJ t '"^ avaiJable on other fA^'^ ^ 

aiiBw.>r Tk ''^ ^0" and anyone Tu Itens. 

aiibwer. The pressures of apace {lith, * '^"^ ''^"t to 

.oL-'^H^/? ' on hia ine ih''^''^'^ great as they 

some additional pressures thlt^f ? ^^'^^'^^ •''••^ going to be 

you think you're .ol n^ r n V w / ^ """^ ^ ^ona 1 politics Hn. 

Stafford' ?he wo d « .I^T ^""'^^^ '^--t p ob?e.? 

Well. In our work in nt ^iii^f^*""''^^ Politics 
atlon and hospi t a 1 1 1 y f oVo o'w ^^n ' f ^^'^ the Xer, 

-ere J/.iriore^rh^r^^r"!::: -^---^-"J^-^r^-,- 

h'^ve as far a. Apollo becaus'e^i °^«»ion U wou d ^ 

n act people around t^: ::,^ ^ a^L ' countries. 

hainL be e^en Jur^h!^"? ''^ cooperation be- 

hanccmcnt, or reducinR of t^-nJ^ further missions, further en 
P-^rt Of the problem. ' ^ certainly. And this s al 

colleagues, but I've g o ' a 1 ' . J rest of my 

^"^^a?tV.^^'^"«^ a^out\\;ir':iiir:n^°"^^"' - 

^ could Jusc say « r e a ^ and ' t Ja ve U ' ' ^ k"'^'"^ ' " ^''^ '^"ow. 
was in this same re I a t 1 vo pos Jt Ln ^ ''"^ ^ 

relation to a flight .nH about 12 years ago in 

And. Of coi?s : -^^^^ of it ahoSt ye.., 

-anybody else to c ^mman d 've y f ' ^ ^ - competent 
And I missed them all. so that's ^^""^ ^^"^^ «lnce 

on the other side of he coin r " obviously. J' , 

^o fat Ted Freeman's oose „d ha^'^''^ ^'^'"^'^^ ^ualiHed 
Pl^^ne and be in spacecraft f^'^/^^'f C. C. Williams' bum air- 
o-- White. So on b'a ance l th nk'^"' ^^^««om. Chaffee 
And I don't believe i n look i ^ ^ b' v ' "'''''^ fortuna e 

^xcept in telatio. to what Lnef? J^t ""'^ 

f"t"re. I think we've Rot an o /^^^ in the 

t.ot an outstanding flight ahead of 


Page 5 

u» here; we've got a long vay. to go to get ready for it 
f Si? rh!I. ^ working with u« on thi. 

Byself. '■MOV I II probably express 

QUERY A coupl« of qwestlons for whoevffr Are 

ni.«ot!I?fInr° 't^^'.^'"" ''^'''•^ "^'^ these 

ntgo iatlona, Mary. Tho basic area we've rorked on the 

i<if^iSU0Ke. but the crewmen of the other country would have tr> 
un erjtaad. Now wo are oo.pUing a series of'sJec al Jer, 
for this mission, but it', just too earlv to have those out 
together. As Car as the Joint a c t i .i t i e« . we ' a r e " f^Ic 
when we're n the Soyuz we'll eat their f^od .nd v se ve .a 

o.r«r^^ hy.lene facilities, 

do be?Jdes .tart. ' '"^"'^ '"^^ "''^^ ^'^"'^^ ^^^^^^ 

atafford There', a whole series of experiments th^t 

are be ng proposed both by the Soviets and ourse He " ^ Tel 

to tell exactly what those will be. e-ariy 

. QUERY (Inaudible) any one thing or a lieneral 

thing you think you're K«lr.^ to do? ««-nerai 

twenty'ave'° '"^ ' ' ^^^^'"'^^ ^ 1^"^ 

LUN.NEY Yes, we're In a process of reviewing! * 

tiiishc. and ^e really have not nade any dec i s 1 on or reallv 
any narrow ng down of lar,. lists. The Sovi eto wi I aUo 

.r.%T" k''' ^" And we probably 

won t have a much - we can't say very auch to you that is 

fV.lVu -til we have those ^.ind of discussions both to 

finish our consideration of ours and then finish our d «- 
ussions with tne Rust i ^ns in March. So Ifs stili goin' to 
take a couple cf months for us to pin that down. 

QUERY Ton just said that each crevoembe r will 

have a chance at docking. Does it »:ean that will dock and 

is over I understand you intend to stay up for a ■-l ile. Whl 
are you going to do? "^it. »»nat 

STAFFORD Well, on the first question, to coDpletely 

tost our syste. fo. the active, passive, and the b ack up re 1 e as e 
nechanisn that we have. req.:res a series of dock 1 ngs ^nd 1 f 


conn unab lea are ^, ^ 

be worked out /w^^ e pJoi^J J/"' '^f tUeUne, can 

'ot«i length of thl J. y "«8otiatlon,. Now L tlr 
h^ve a baseline q5 «f opo.lng '/rl fx ' " 

we could fit into thu tl.elinl » "^f^"" ««« the best 

operate their .htp at r^vH oJL/"'"''^ '^^^ ^^^'^ woJ d 

9UEKV T„„ „ , 

airplane ,„ ,he .11 H ; !' " '""u,',"" 

on the «ryund working the oth^r n!^' Statford. Now when ve ' r« 

then obviously. .,',1 a no L^"''"'' ''"'^ other "r^buL 

But r .ee nr^roblLs at 1 « 1 1 onJh 1 p ' 
Ton to be ready to fly this uLht a„d h.'' " P-"« ' <> 1 « to 

J^*^;^. could you addresr;:ui:elJ°L'l^\' r ^ ^-Uca t. on. . 
SLM^OS "'^'^"^ ^oUllVl you foci U., 

; «u«6s. For son,e peopi; Jlfo s\'r^'^^r!,''^''" ^ ^tart.r 
Solng to bo Bore like 50 h,. r ' " ^0 and for Be it'i 

it. ^Doesn't bother me at all ^hat s one vay to put 

BRAND r,r » 1 • 

t"«-- tin>e over here at the 'tl ^''^""^ track all 

°" -vcr could catch me. (Laughter) 


SPtAKER Coald I pursue ihat, I wa» pre««»t at 

tl»« original nuw« conference in Washington when you «even 
d«»crlb«d in «o«« hldcoun dtt«il, the phystcul «xam» vou weiu 
through at the tin* and if that f.i»e a 50 year old was never 
v^vtn €0n8ldered. What's changed in the $pace flight prograa 
that now A fifty year old aan can «iake it without pr<)bl«!B«? 

SLAYTON I »lon't think anythtng's changed all th/»t 

»uch . I don t think it was ever all thar bl^ a deal to b*gin 
with, except that it vaa an unknown quantity in thos* diya 
aid r tMnk we had to fly some flighty to prove that it really 
wasn't. But I chink th««e guy* corre«t ae. but in ay 

opinion ih.i biggest physical work we 've had in ApoUo flights 
has been associated with the luiar Kurf ace opera t/ons . 1 1 '« 
certainly not launch and reentry. And i t '3 cer t ai niy no bikj 
deal here. We're talki.ig about a shuttle here in the future 
that we anticipate being able to haul everybody up then as 
• standard passen^^er. And ve certainly wouldn't ex,^ect to 
run everybody throvgh a full nine yards of physical exaoa to 
any aore than you would to go out and fly on a 74? trca here 
to Tokyo or some placo. I don't think I consider the physical 
part being all th^t bi^ a deal. 

PAO Barb"»ra V.iiVDer Neyden, 

<i\iERi Do yovv ha le any cxpec tency of 1 i f e TV 

during th*» whole progran ai;d if so, how auch can you s ay yet ? 

l-^'^^^E^ We are planning to carry a television 

cavera, 0/ course, in our spacecraf c as are the Sovt ets , And 
we ' ve Also Bade arrengeiaents that with cab\e such that our 
television camera can be operated in the Soyui and then reacted 
through our coaaunl c a t i on sys t e»s . So on the ground , i n e f f ec t 
you will see television like you've seen froB our coauand 
Bodule, either froa our coaaand BQdultj or froK in the (Jocklng 
Bodule or be Soyui spacecraft. The Soviet-* will have a recip- 

STAFFORD We also have the tape 'ecorder on board. 


STAFFORD Skylab tape recorder so ii will be long 

periods© fti me. 

PAD MarK Crair.. r . 

Ql'ERV I understand lately there's been acme 

question about whether or noc observers froa the U.S. i^an 
will be in the Russian Mission Control and vice versa. Have 
youany word on how that will be resolved? 

LINNEY Yes, I do. And there has been sonc dia~ 

cussion of it that I've read. Th* situation is that ue art- 
early in the game cf deciding and discussing really how we 
would best establish and maintain good understanding between 
control centers. Wt- have found in our programs th.-it it is 
really vital that the people, both on the ground and in the 
air, undv rs t and each other very well. Wt ' ve been look ing for 
ways to establish thr.i kind of understanding between the two 
control centers, and one method proposed is that we have a 
small staff of people in each others conirol center who would 
be available f or cons u 1 1 a t ion . Whe r e you cbuld bring the 
fellow and talk to him about something that might be going 
on. We have not yet a greed to that as the technlcue that wo 
would use, but it is under active consideration and discussion. 


u thi?. ,«„on L*;:;:^';;,!'.'?: staffers. 

eiK«r cosmonauts. * **** t^*" of th« 

Jeconditlonfng during tul f[?$J»'/" t ^v«cular Highi is over! 

proble». anybodj eUe'a^ri'-i'''; y'l/"^* a.y different 

is probably no oL ! -or! ? \^ vould expect that thtre 

Darrol Hack. 

^-^•^^ Mary Bubb. 

nev«e„ in for t.e Uur^^'Lo^ur 'ra'' J^^^ 

c;.es that tbere wu! b e^^^Hj: J ^ [ ^ , 

^ gUERY Whether or not now that you are tn ihia 

discussion for cooperative efforts, whether you really see 
any definite clues for future things, 7»»^^^^iy see 

L'JNNEY This actually, for those of you vhomav 

no Mtcv it, wc started off these discussion vorklng on ' 

- is still going on to make our future spacecraft compatible 
a rendezvous and docking aense. For either the Jurp^se 
CI just enhancing somewhat the capability to rescue someone 

?h<s L°?hi; K'/'^/'r Pl--n^<» cooperative missions. 

Th.s is the bedrock that we a ro wo r k i n g on two years ago. The 
project developed out of that work in a sense that i t ?s 
a test of that work and real ly the fi rs t exercise of it. 

Wh«l viil ,^ i . 

STAFFORD kfiii 4 . 

at soa« of the svatena i« . w «o«juie and to loot 

tru« when the astronauts £h«t ar^^.,^-^?^,^*'* Is 
Soviet Union late this f*li f' the 

f «:o»Piete sequence. And a. f ar 5^*^!. . f ^ «o thrpugn 

BRAND Ahh« r I c ' 

J-t Pf aa a hobby in lL lllYet ^^e Vi^e. 

t<» speak a little bit of Geriln Mv w ^ ^""^ I used 

long they will re.ain he?-' suaaer. and about how 

out. that is the oen n Lrstaffn.'" <>{ Uyl„o 

Plan their training They'?« ?Iv ' <ilrecto^a^e 
Plan and for the exercises ve vouJd^!^',r' " ^ «i led d^i ly 

we don't really have ?t Lid o2t how • """"^^ 

I anticipate though, that it won!^\ ^ l^ng it would be. 

your question, don't know hnu » I also to answer 

we .re expecting > veM^^ave .r^^p^^fTa^^f -"^^^ co«e.\^, 
up to ten or so. Now. I can't teU vn ? * """">er 

is nothing new. and we've I?oJn s ve"r;i'"/'r' «^»«lon 
Soviets. And I would anticipate ove^ h " 

here are going to be some Jeoole s . "^^^^ of V^'ars 

Just being another space Lee ^^""^ •l3sion as " 

«^iplo.acy is at wor.' Wha' r ^ %LaJ 'v:/ ^ ^ ' 1^ international 

real value of flying 


^^•it the pthar^"^ * 'hat , flip eJ^K • ^''"id be 

Planned p«rpX ^\^""f ^J'^!! """"'^^ ^^'^^'J 

going I*, vork "y^uirirt^ k'"'*'*"'*' thtn. 

really 4 fatrlv ,ji*!f **' al>Ultv t.^ " * Urjicr 

vifiver, rends,,.','' exercise "^""Perate in v\ 

j;;- ..n Who Va.ri'n; ;r -cm'jj: f/^r? 

r^nrfe.vous and we Lr ^ • ^t was the flj.t ri " '^6. 
^^"t flight, tn I.r'/' ^"^^""^n'ious effort f!. ^« h*,d 

'f'ort y««r* we've ciL^'''''^"^^ to do ?? the 

puvtho«e te.h„ ,%:n,'\,^^« point vh.?/:, ^ew 
^^"««ase. And imU^^^f'^^^ ^*th another L trying to 
^»^^t we did on GeSlnf^/i ^ ^^"k ^ t qui t e a ^ ' """^ «noth«r 
"till 1« a very ^""^^^^nd^Vd It ^1^^' ''''^ 

be involved -n bJth or.^ °" too ' in,,""^^^ ^'^^ «ould 

STAFFORD J ^ f « « ^ f o r 1 8 . ^r^" -ind win 

^i''l««lt. Th\ «econ^"r"""^' the fuft\'?" ''''' '^'^ — 
^''i* Is of kdifff ""^^^ t'«8ier a.d^h* 1 »'«P. It's 

co»e out o? t In' 0^ th ^--'th and 

'>oth countries /,nH k ^ ^'^'^V ' taken w the 

•» b«-'tter aois:tr."p <=^"n t r 1 os have '^t 

^^y^'^- Ho this alone ii 'K^'^ ^^^ter th^n vh^V ' "^''ter 

t^ K<''t all th;, '1 benefit. It 1, " r "^"y have on 

^*^<l-ce cost ^''^^^^"'•ther Bis'loJs ^id loV ««w<=ver. 

QUERY . ''"V^O'^Peratlon and 

f '»Ions tefcre as f Iras'T ' i''-^o..e very 

do you consider t h i ^ % >, f ' ' ^ to tn^ Moon .Iw ^"'P'^'tant 

«iJt^r it as im^J climax of voi.r , ^'^'l »» forth . 

Apon:\i':n::r:," i^porr:: - you con- 

STAFFORD -^^^ ^l^w? ' '"'^ 6 and 

^^^'^^y of your career''^.';;"! ^^"^ have a liftoff .har- . 
I n a c «> n a ^ . ► , ' ' ^ I tell v o 1 1 f ' ' » t n a t ' s t h p 

u4ly T.''!'''''^ as I say I'ml' '''''' « 

Of the r^r^^r:^ ir^h^ -Jo-^t^jusr;?;:^^ 

, in tne past . 


Page U 

ggERt Glynn, ai wh«t iil<ig« now is the ilocUng 

module, and what U Sorih Aaerlcan u»lng In the way of plan* 
oi the {tu»»lai\ spacecraft hooV up? 

lunn«y Okay, let •>« Answer the second part of 

tha», fUai. And I think It's Inportant to understand this. 
The kind of work that we «re engaged U is to try to agree 
on what In our prograo we would call Interface type of agreement* 
And what that really »ean» 1» . I " caee the docking aystt*, 
for exanple, the dl mens ions that are critical to having both 
■ echanlsiit aati together , dUenfions, load« , ie»petatur«. etc. 
We try to agree on those, which In effect, specify the kind 
<5f d#»tgn you have. But then in • a<;h count ry , we build ^ the 
hardware in our own way with oyr own t«chnlque$ that we've 
developed ourselves , so that we ar» agree ine with the Soviets , 
in effect, on requlrenenta on design. l'» talking about the 
docking syateBS. Thi» is true of all the other systeas. We 
agret on the re^uireacnts and then each in our own way wi th 
our own equipment and techniqueo the systess are built in 
their own country. Wii do not try to aanufacture each ottters 
equlpnent . The docking isodule at this point is very far 
along in terns of the de f i ni t i On of i t« dea I gn . A* natter 
of fact, a week ago Too Stafford and 1 and others vere at 
North Atserican holding what we call a c r i t i ca I des i gn review, 
which is fairly late in the engineering release cycle, 
engineering release ■of the drawings that the docking noduU 
will be built from. And we found a very little problea with 
It. It's going very well, stayed on the srhedule the whole 
tl»e that we have layed out . and we're very pleased with it 
in that we think we are able to aake it very rugged and very 
rel lable . and also we are able to wake i t s I np le t o ope r a t e , 
and I think we have a aockup which we have been building and 
it is at various stages of fidelity, but Ton was in the docking 
module wockup at Downey last week, and again, that iseems to^ 
be coming along pretty well and Indicates the progress that i 
being made on the docking sodu le 1 1 se 1 f . 

QUERY Deke. a while ago you thanked Dr. Herry 

and the adnl nl b t r a t i ve people on the program for their help 
through the years and for putting on the fllxhi. Was there 
a titae when you thought they were wrons. and you f«U Intui t lvt>l: 
that regardlesb- of the murmur . you could fly ? Did you think 
they ve»e wrong at one point? 

SIAYTCN . Well, there wasn't a time I thought that, 

it was all the time. Wasn't ever any question In ay oind 
that It was wrong from day one . And there wasn't any question 
in a lot of other peoples' minds either, but It took a little 
longer than I expected to prove it. Like ten years. 

Ql'ERY Question for the forgotten nan. Vance, you 

sitting'between the two highest brass in the astronaut program, 
and on tne flight you're going to be sitting in the sane 
position. HOW do you got along with ihcs.» two vt^terans? 

BRAND Super, I have no comjilaints. We ali 

get along fine. They're - 1 respect them a lot for their 
ability as pilots and as administrators, both. 


?i%<e It 

OUKRV SpeaW of the. being bra86. D^lj* J"*"' 

will sit m your PO»^tJ«"» M Se ciei aSd *o forth. 

coday. at Ua.t . "^^^^'^^J^Z/^^e pro ra» and nu.ber t,n« priority 

We mil have that as « "^""^^^.1"^ And we have plenty of tl»»^ 
i„ .y -U'i fa'the. drop «.f and go ro worR 

to find a conclusion « ^^^^^ * we ' U be doing ao.e worW 

full tUe training for this i^/.t that point, pf 

on it part tUe. ^^J^w ujand do our Job.. 

COuree» then .o««body wl I "J^* imminent decision 

But that'a far enough off , »o tner* because of 
when many of the 
with the program 

why have you 
Why have you 

for in 1959. 
And 1 expect 
of tact. I 

ft t ayed 

the probUna you've bad. 
Other astronauts have leltf 
and why are you herv now. 


I o 

I •« here to fly 
haven' t done It yet 
do a couple more after 
' t have any th I ng e l»e I 

That ' a 

what they hired 
and I 'm goln^ to do It . 
this one , as a watte c ^ 
d rather be doing . I ' 


I've been paid to tiy. vn^cn 

I 'a going to stick 

aa long as I can do U . 

And I isuess when there reaches a point 
L'.ell go play golf or something 

Okay , tnanV you very 

the last 20 or 30 yea 
love the BOS t . And 
around and do It. 


I can ' t 


do that , I 


July 9-20, 197.3 

A meeting of Apollo-Soyuz Test lYoject specialists of thu Academy of Sciences 
o(lhc C'.S.S.R. find the i^tional Aeronautics and Space Administration was held at 
the Lyndon R. Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas, U.S.A., July 9-20, 1973. 

The purpose of the meeting y.^s to discuss technical matters, continue devel- 
opment of trajectories and Hight plans, tentatively agree -jpou the scientific experiment 
program and familiarize cosmonauts assiji^ied to the joint 1975 sf^ce mission with the 
design and o{KTation of the Apollo spacecraft. 

Thr project technical directors, the flight crews, the Mission Model and Ojiera- 
tional Plans working group, and representatives of the Control and Guidance working 
group look part in ihe discussions. 

A review of project milestones was completed by die technical directors. 
Prof. Konstrtntin D. Bushuyev for die U.S.S.R. and Dr. Glynn S. Lunney for th<' U.S. 
they reaffirmed that \m Jor milestones are on schedule. 

The cosmonauts attended a serits of lectures and d.>m<»f!Sfranons which provided 
them a basic understanding of Uie Apollo sivicecraft and its syaifm*, iiiirticularly U/e 
sup}x)rt am! communications systems. Ihey were briefed On the stocking module, and 
they participated with the working groups in discussions on the view activitlt's plan for 
the mission. 

Further progress was re}V)rted by the working groups on Use details of the crew 
activities plan, control center operations, trajectories and other ojKraiionsI anjxjcts of 
the joint mission. 

Agreements reached in particular Include; 

Familiarisation of U.S. flight crews with Soyuz ef|uipiVu nt will take piace 
in November in the Soviet Union. 

• more 


• A preliminary schedule of crew training aims for cosmonaut training 
in the United States in April, 1974 and in February. 1975. and astronaut training in 
the Soviet Union in July. 1974 and in March. 1975. Duration of training sessions will 
he agreed upon after the astronaut familiarization visit to the U.S.S.R. me tr.Uning 
plan is expected to be completed at that lime, and all flight procedures are exiKvned 

to be finalized by the end of 1974. 

• The final selection of joint exjx^riments will be in October. 1973. 

• Rciy>rts will be exchanged on an assessment of the safety of the flight 
based upon tests performed in the course of manufacturing and checkout in prcivira- 
tion for the flight . 

Tlie U.S.S.R. si.le slated that the Moscow CentLT of Control of Manned Spa.e 
Flight near Moscow, w.ll b.^ used by Uie U.S.S .R . and Cosmonaut Akksey S. Yellseyev 
will be the flight director for the Soviet Union. 

On July 14, i>art of the Soviet delegation, including the heads of the delegation 
and the cosmonauts, toured Uie assembly and checkout facilities at the Rock-Nvell Imer- 
national plant in l>wney. California, where the work on ASTP is carried out. 

The U.S. technic al director and several of the working groups will attend 
meeiings In the Soviet Uftlon In Oct.>ber, 1973, 

end - 

Hous t on , Texas 

Apo 1 io- Soy U2 Test Project (ASTP) 

Tiichilcal Diifcctors' and Prime Crew Press Confc;rence 

Johni?;jr. Space Center 
July If}, 19 7 3 
10:0') n.rv. CDT 

Pari i c i fan ts : 

Clynn «-unnev, ASTP Technical Director for the US 

Prof. Kor.i! t. an t in dushuycv, ASVP lechnicdl Director for ihe liSSti 
Hrsf. i'l'n. Thomas P. Stafford, US Crew Coniriandt'r 

Di-r. ,< . "Dc*kt" Siayttm 

vie ••.nonrtijt Al^ksey Laonov. USSR Crfw CommflinUffr 

{ o s It o i • ii u I \ A i * r 1 y K lib a H o v 
C o s o!i J It t V i d i 'lU r S h a I a I o v 
.« s c o n it i(j t \ I f» e ; V >? 1 i s e y <• v 

AS '^f. 1 af s. t eSici f , i;i t.t rpn:* to r 


Ti me 


Pleased ^ n ! '^"s^lan, we'll d ( ga rb l ^ ) _ 

^'■^c-ossio* ^'^^^^R^tion fron c" 'P'''^^ Cent.; , ^^^'^^ ^-en 

''^rc. to report , " Soviet L'„f ^'"'^J^'^- - ^" 

iatistchef f 

';^,?i-^J«^ct for 

K<^ntlemen are 
meet ings . 


^'^'n start t "^ ' ""^ 

introductions fr 

PA5 I Russia- tr»„ f '<-chnicaJ 

TAr.STC.H^^ ^"^-lf;-.s pr^I^c^- ^^r^ord. 

• ■ ^"^s "Mission. 

iAriSlcj/F PF 
^'rirre Crev, 


" 5 < ay ton 

member of 

obvi -^-""F commander t^'^me c 

"l-vlouH Why he is n.. ''''' 

JAirsTCHFFF "'^ /^re today. . ^ 

^^^el Leoftov t. f fK f. General ^^ , 

Soviet prlr/ -'^^talov is 

( ^, ''I cond mertbe r o: 

''^r.. Of IX''^ ^H.taiov JJ^.'^r*^' VeU.eyov, , Sn.< 

TAr rSTCfiFFf 

?'A0 ^ 

^"'^h that 

Co I one 1 


jAns;t,j- . 

^ I. UN' N FY 

"'^r Intern '""^ 

Time: ^^10:00 a.m. CDT 

\„.rsonal pleasure to have 
, to you as best we 

^•^'^^^'^ . . rh-ee different groups. 

Directors -''•> specific questions- 

lUo Soviet sidt. ano cia»'. 

1, nffice on the t.^- hi^"' - 

AS TP B/1 

T i IT50 IC : 00 CDT 

Dr . Bus uye V on 
F l 1 gli t Director's 


in tht 
an d 

LU N N E Y -under the direction of 

the Soviet side and Dr. Pete Frank from our 
Office on the U.S. side. 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian translation)' 

^^'^•^'E^' They have taken another 

docunent ation cf both the trajectory flight y , an 
or«' rat imial docunents that will describe oitr flight 

TA1"ISTCHEFF ( Ru s s 1 an t r an i? 1 a t i on ) 

LUNSEY We hav« also had a unique opportunity on 

this visit in that our control center has been active with 
Che SkyiaD nlssion and we Were able to Introduce and shov 
our guests what the operation looks like. 

TATISTCHEFF {Russian Translation) 

LUN'NEY A personal observation of mine on the 

work in working group nuraber 1. I find that although there 
IS iRuch^left to do. the docunents describing the crew's 

ties, or what we would call the flight plan, are ver;. , 

v r r y 

F 4 > < 



pleased with thsc 

an d I are ve r'^ 

(Russian T r an s 1 1 1 1 on ) 
Beth Professor Busuyev 

(Russian Translation) 

Wc havo had another activity with the 
cosmonaut themselves. 

■TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

As you know, on this first visit of the 
cosmoriauts.we had planned a f anil 1 a r t z a t i on kind cf process 
relative to the spacecraft that the L.S. would fly this 

'ATISTCHEFF (Russian Tr .ins 1 a 1 1 v-^n ) 

Ll'N.SKV In the course of these f an 1 1 i r i z a t 3 i-n 

ectures. ue provided inforr.ailon on the operation of the 
Apollo Spacecraft and the docking module Hvster.s. 
TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

i" addition to that, as a result of o r 
experience with this first set of f ani U a r i ?. t i on ^x^rci^.ci 
v.- vc re^b.->i tc r able lo lay our> fi;r ihr fntvirc. 
TATISTCHEFF { Translation) 

Our astronauts will ko to the Soviet 
an e<j!,i v.'^lent kind of f air; i 1 i a r i z a t i on in the fall, pre 
the last Skylab r.isslon is launched'. 
( RuHsi an Trans lai 1 on \ 

We have tentatively planned for four 
the intervenlnjs and a half. 
(Russian translation) 

Bv that 1 rean two note trips after t 
Awerlcin Asiron.iuts to the Soviet fni 

f < . t 

1 n N' o \>(L> mfc e r after 


tr.Uning periods 


S'l ve irbc r Reeling 
and Hkewisii' two 

1 on 
a b i V 

i n 


10 r 

tnfre trips of the Cosmonauts here to lli>uttot\. 

A S T P p C B / 2 
Time 10 :00 CDT 

TATISTCIiKKF (Russian T i an s 1 a t i on ) 

LUNNKY These were some of the subjects that we 

ad J resfi e d in our me e t i n gs . 

TATISTCHKFF (Russian Translation) 

LtNNEY I would like to ask Professor Busuyev 

to touch upon sone of the other subjects for your Infortnatlo 
TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

LUNNEY When h e cair.e he re , ho w as fresh from 

r.- vie wing the work that was conducted in Moscow were we had 

two working; groups> last month and one this month. 

TATISCtiEFF (Russian Translation) 



Time i 10 :00 A, M CDT 


TATlSTCliEFF (Russian. Translation) 

EUSHUYEV (Russian) 
^TATIS^CHEFF I havo very little to add to the 

rosu.ts or our n-eotlng. .fter what Dr. Lunney has just told 

BUSHUYEV (Ru^jsian) 
h^r. Dr. Lunney mentioned, this -eeting 

r'tinK P^-^-^-iiately after the ' con clu^lo" ^ ' the 

ne^tinfe of t.iree working groups in Moscow. 
BUSHUYEV (Russian) 

lATISTCHEFF Lhese three groups, during Jure and Julv 
rrobloL"" '''' resolve nany co.pfex^cal 

DUSHUYEV (Russian) 

TAnsrCHEFF And I follow the work of these erouis 

during their entire presence In Moscow, except for he ast 
f'-'w days, when I happened to be here 

BU2Hi3YEV (Russian) 

■^"{'^^'■'^^CHEFF Cn the American side, those r.eetlngs 

' Iv^uf'vpl^"" the direction of Dr. David Scott. 
Sl'f.Hl\EV (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFF And I believe the wor^ ^ ^ , 

the work wa. very successfully conducted 
BUSHv'VEV (Russian) 

th.~/^!!?yf the decisions taken dur<n, 

tho.,p Bieetings was such chat thev remit th*. mnf^. I , . 

:hc- future of what we hope will b/ve^i su^e^sJul r^.o 

SrSHUYEV (Russian) suceisful negotiations, 

concJnlJ:'!""^ ^--our.eetin. InHousto. IS 

fefSHUYEV (Russl.m) 

T/TtSTCIlEFF - -which was, - which ' ook olar^ frt 

"""Hr"H;-vri^' ^'■-;°-^>' planned a r r L^^ e .e^n t s ' " 
BlSHlYi. i' (Russian) 

lAV-STCHEFF I can add the following to what 

i. t . i. '.'.!■, U € y $ ,1 j (J . 

' •• ' • I Russl an) 

T.\ncTCHEn- And fir.t of all. I would like :o 
^ ' ' ^''""id ""tt- that w« are conplctlnp. o.r work 

*.i c?.t previous laid out schedule 
hUSl!lV;V (Russian) 

.ATI.TCHEFF And the status of our work on ASTP 
at the present ponent permits us to be very optlm^Bti^ -k. , 
thv tuiur.^ trcrd of this work optimistic about 

El'^IIL'VEV (Rut; 8 I an)' 

TATiSrCHEFF Of course, we will still neet up 

fcCTp PC C/2 
file: 10:00 
1 llQfT^ 

e xp 

. voeritaents . (Russian) 
e'^P^ t„cMUVEV ^^^^ soviet 

active part 
(Ross 1 an) 
we- tbls is 


- 1 tae n 1 1> • 
crientlsts, ta'^'^ 

for s""^^ 
place in 

^"""'Lldt' about 
few woroK 

:f Icientific 
.ists and A^^erican 

the third ^^-^ 



no« est.blis^^^'i a 

and^le have 
.cl'entiac program. 

(Russian) ,ing ^^^W^al de ^ ' 

At the next r.ake a U^^^ 

October. ^,«pect to 

and co.e to « l^^^t i^ e xpe r 1 n t. - 
orogr^- !-? (Russian) interesting ^^^^p,,, 

P'^'^ISUUYV.V ^« have a v e ^ , ^ on 0 f 1 ^ 

TMISTCHEFF ^^,,,ns on the q 
pretniu.8 and di 


. CTP PC f / 1 
till'. ^0:U0 CDT 

„.ch...,ge aMltlonal j.„y . both sides have 

SPE«r.« nane certain ° ^.,1, ships °' 

XATISTCHEFF ^ ^0 ^ capab i 1 Ity - deal 

, fv,n "-'^^'^^nSe A.Lican ship have th. 

the soviet and ^^^a. 

„Uh c.r,ergo^cy « ^ ^ ^ j.^^^ i an) ^,,,3in that such 

lATlSTCHEFF /^tu not arrivr. 

e«.ergency ian) ,,,, 'the Soviet delegatton 

^^^^frJuvFF Dv^rlng this ^^^'^^e S'^^^'^' 

TATlSTCHtFF ^^^^ ^^de the 

stated that a l^^'H^^, for AStP. 

3 flight control (p^.sian) { m a 1 de c i s 1 on an d 

vrF Ve have .ade aji^al^ ^^^^ 

chosen the fliS^t -<^^\^l^,,,) S,,,,et side 

SPEAKER > Flight Director on ^.^,i3eyfV. 

lATlSTCHEFF ^ .^^ho «iU be Cosmonaut 
also been ^ « i an) there will be 

SPEAKER ^ Lunncy - ' I , I can and 

,,;::£Sk|;r:rr.r.r/r.r,",r..„ ....... 

place in oclob.t m 'J j,„, A„erlcn.. 

Xlili^'*"" , „ certain 

friend, in »^^::rfunJ thi^ ^^^^^ 

continue saccesatu -^^^^^a.,) ^^^^y our 

American h^^'t to •■-^ ^erc in .1-"- ^ 

(Ku..ian) . the beBt 

rocrv'nlton that v i^^) ihen (or 

TAtlSTCHEFF 1 visiting th. 

. u,. the opportunity 

^,iving uf. 


Time : 

PC D/2 


Downey, q^..^ 

S^'EAKEr'^^"^-. Plant Of . 

and test '''"^^•'^ 

I ni 



w/i e re f- K 

,^,^"^slan) °^ great 

^nank you r 

Genera? c Vour af, 

'•^en cost 



dwelt ». 


f Rubs I an t 

J,'ns?a,,?;/'=-uo/?;- n.o„ or7,' Pe.ud 

ri "'/"e Sov,., I'"' "ru;„' rf-) 
sati.Jf'j^^CHEFF / « ( an ; ^ ^ ^ ^ on ) 

wit. .''"^^ the d ^••■0 veek. 

, Vance d 
'■^^ launch. 


' found 


^'^"«si«n) ^^'^ «re^t Int^ '^'^ 

••"rest « 

Tine ; 10 :00 CDT 

this i.i for the Joint flight. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 

TATISiniEFF Ve ca:ne to an .3t,reement about the ne.a 
exchange additional infori^ation in this area. 

cpciK^B (Russian) , 

tAnSTCHEFF To «-^*-«rtain that both sides have^ 

a full .understanding of the «ann«r in which ^^^^^ ^ ^ 

iC^UsLt and the American sh Ip h ave t he cap ab i 1 1 1 y to deal 
with emergency situsf'nns. 

^PAFFTK (Russian) . 

TATlSTCHEfr And especially .ake certain that such 
energeacv .ituationa viU not arrive. 

'v??stCHEFF l,urtng"hls meeting the soviet delegation 
.tatei lhal a ILice has been .ade in the Soviet Union of 
a flight control center for AST?. 
AKEK (Russian) 
TAr^lCHEFF We have made a final decision and 
chosen Ue night control cent.r which i« near Moscow. 
■; r 5* A>' t R (Russian) 

lAlI&TCHEFF The Flight Director on {he Soviet side 
has also bcfcn chosen who will be Cosironaut ^Mls^,ev. 

S ?' F F R (Russian) t i i k 

TATISTCHEFF As Dr. Lunney tnert toned, there will be 
,,^„.i„,.ed "cetlngs, joint meetings between Arse r I can and 
.Jjo'v^J^t 'p.cltu.t. to iron out ail other problems that arc 
atiiitobedis cussed. 

"JPEAKKF (Russian) 

lATISTCHEFF Our next regular meeting will taKe 
place in October in Moscow. 

■:^FA'FF (Ru«i Hi an) 

t 1 rC'^TCHKFF we will be happy to greet our American 
rrlen:i";n MOSCOW .nd are certain that we will he able to 

contir.i:e u c c e f u 1 1 y this joint worK. 

c r » r P; ( i^u-"* 3 i an ) , 

in closing ! will like to than^ vur 
\..rican h..t fcr the wonderful weJcotne and hospila.ity 
ti ^ '.vv havr- extended t.> us here in Houston. 

- ; \(.' f S f Rij s s i an ) 

-\-\<lcm-rr A« u5ual. conditions were - the best 
ronditi^n^^ in'the world were created favorable to a good 

conduct of oor Wvrk. 

sf^rAKFR (Russian) 

TATIKTCHEFF And very I n te res 1 1 n g *nd a P 
.. ret. r.cre.Hon activities for the short n/iod of 
recreation ihat we had In lhi-4 very busy «eet.v.g. 

V hK \ R < a i an ) , . r 

XAtl^^lCiif f r I w*nt to especially thank thetn for 
Virgil' u)^ the opportunity of visiting the 

ASTP PC D/ J. • • 
■^^""e: lOrOO CDT 


'^"ATISrCHEFF uv'" 

(LL"^ "^^^^^^ «hlP 


SPEAKER ^„ ^^'c model of Sk%'];,v- 

and stands. ' of other . 


lATlSTCHFFF {^""^i-") °" ^ « t stand. 

SPEAKER ^urnished\;',r 

■-activities. I take thtl "-'"Joyed this very wi^ 
^Jiend. for having J' n"""'"" ^° thank o^/;'! y^^^^^)' o 
of this. an opportunity to 

SPEAKER ,p , ^ '° "^"J^y ^11 

rU Jt!"-^^ b.en punned for J.^'/^S^'^ t ' 

END or 7 APE 


Tlffic ; 10 : 00 a.m. CDT 

1 AriSTCtlE f F 
successful flight, 


the audi t orluin and 

fligac for July, 1975, will be 

( Rus s i an) 
- - Thank 
The other 
wc 'a like 

you f or your at te n t ion . 
visiting Cosnionauts are in 
to ask General Shataiov, vhoi 

is in chargfi of Cosmonaut training, to introduce then: briefly 

wer' made between 
these discuss tons 

( Rus s i an ) 

Ladies and gentletr.en. 
(Russ 1 an) . 

In accordance with the agreements that 
our two delegation 8. at the beginning o£ 
, the crews of Che twtV ships that would le 

were supposed to be designate J 2 

flying in July, 1975 
y e 1 r s i n ad van ce . 

SHATAIOV (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFF Or. Soviet side, we already have four 
crews who V.J v" tee-.t de -»i gnat ed-who are nov participating 
in a preparation of training for the flight. 

SHATALOV (Kussisn) 

TAIISTCHEFF .t the beginning of this press 
you were ilready introduced to tiie merafcers of the 
first flight crew. The Ccmraander, Colone 1 Leonov , 
cosncaaut, Valery Kubasov. 

SH^TALOV (Russ ian) 

TATiSTCHEFF Now, I'd like to present to you 

con I ? re nc e 

- of 





ti e 35,0 e r s o i 

Soviet sid*". 

T AT I S i CHE F? 


lie second, third, and fourth crews on the 


Anat o liy V, 

on board 

Ruk avi shn Ikov 

(Russ ian) 
These cond 
(Rus s i an) 
Cocraande r 
( Rus s i an) 
The e n c I n e e r 
(Russ 1 ah) 
The third - - 
( Russ Ian) 
- - The third 
And the engineer 
( Russ ian) 
The fourth - 
Coictnande r 

And the engineer on board 
( Russ ian) 

Thank you for your attention. 
We'll go back to Doctor Lunnev 
( Rus s i an) 

group. Connancer Dzhanibekov 
on board, Andreyev. 

Ro.iane nko . 

I V a n c h e n k 0 V 

who has son-.e 

ASTP Pc-E/2 
Time ; 10 :00 


LU.VNEY (■''•'saian) 
docking system this fjf\^ starting testino - 

LUNNEY (Russian) ' ^ " "ous ton . 

And as you can se^ 
^r^he process of\ r'nl' 

training the crews 

^I'-^ady on the way 
both countries 

that will ralr„ 

* c a^ce us ! 


,^^>' that the pace 
Keep: ng vi th the 
botf' on time and 



"f^ston. and then 

-iso-sone newsmen 


the Russians 


the ne;r/or'6°' ^ ^ 

(Russian) 'T' ^ 8 laonths. 

And - And I thint ,k 
f"^ ^he sched L a.e :f/''^ 
Plans that we have and • ''''''^^'y 
3-ccessfaiIy. ' expect t c la.nch 

C Russ 1 an) 
T h a n k y o u . 
'U start 


e r 


they do 


and 1 -lunch 
this Oil 
their next 



launch/ Tr.;Ti:o''r^' ^'^^:o"ncid'a^;f ^^^^ 

«^her flights. Do ,h" • '''' 
«P^ce station f U gh \ h J " '^^^^ 

^AnsrCHEFF r' :i 'f^*^ P-ace? 

BUSHUYEV ;R"aslan) 

^ATISTCHEFF J^"^^^^") 

«ays Bushuye '^'^"^^ = 

■^AXiSTCHEFF 1"^^'"?^ 
announce the cooposlr'f Previous 
BUSHUYEV «^°°Positior. cf the crews 

TAriSTCHEFF i^"\«l-n> ^ 
that ~°*'^auseweHij 

B^SHUYE^ i n t e r n 1 1 l^::, ^ ^ necessity 

^ATISTCHEFF ^0^'^'^' 
ar-Jotntly planning a?!",/" '^^^ Particular ASTP 


<?Liestlon i,*^^ 

no t 


f 11 Shts , we 
^"advance - 


.\S1V PC-E/3 

line: 10:00 a.m. CDT 

7/20/7 3 

years ahead of tir.e and ha is wha 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) ^ ^ ^ ^ 1 9 a r e con ce r ne d , 

TATiSTCHEFF As ' ^ ^ ^ " ^ !, ^ ^ou had in mind. 


BUSHtiEV - I - I an not involved 

TATISICHEFF I do not have far as the 

directly in the flights " ^f/ ^ ^ ^ ay the following: 

spacecraft Soyuz V"" 

BUSHUYEV ^^"^^^^"^^w .oirt flight with Apollo 

TATISTCHFFF Prior to ^^%.^^^'',3 "f the Soyu.- space- 
in 1975, there will be several rlxghts 

"^^''bUSHUYCV i^'^^'itnl flights for the orbital 

TATISTCHF-FF I ncl ud i n g f 1 1 gh t s 

station , Salyvit . _ 

be ftilly trstea in f ^ ^ " ^; . ' , , a moment in the 

PA'^ 'nb r of he United States back- 

que.tions to introduce a nenber c -t^ ^ ^^^^^^ 

up crew for this mssxon. --no .s seate 

cosmonauts. C.ptain Ron .vans. 

f.'anftrget back to this business of 
MALON'EV 1 '-ant to 

your con t rol center . 

TAIISTCHEFF (Russian) specific than near 

MALONEV '"''^"^'^ ^'"^.H^r t's located and - - 

M0SCCW7 there ^J-^V'" "''^^ 

TATISTCHEFF (^"^^^^"i.ii our officials be able lo 
MALONEY - - Oct ^ber? 

visit that control cent-r .n October 

l^V^''' T.l inertc^spal-i^officiaU that will 
he Jnf to Visit MOSCOW in October. 
' ' ^AIISTCHEFF (Russian) 

BUSHUYEV renter of which I spoke is 

TAIISTCHEFF The con t r o 1 c e n t e r o i 

located near Moscow . 

is located near Houston. 


Tlrrie : 10 :00 


rATISrcWEKF r , 

SPEAKER ^-r)-^^^-^ near Houston' '' "^V^^-^^^-l ir 

Ar:'trlcan Specialists ° ^' ^ 1 i a r i z i p . 

be discussed at th.^^'f <>- -ontrof 

J'^i'ig discussed at 
'><'ing discus8..d 


their visit to th. 
our Control (^n 


present oomeRt - is 



1 s 

in the process of 

(Russ ian) 

^Hat the cont-ol C '^^y^^^l "tVl^ 

the center ^/^'^''^^^ somethUg U^" ^ " ^ " ^^en 

no-th. ^<oscow. and I d dn't ! ' ^'^ kilometers 

^p-ia'c^:,^::' --^ .^-^---^ ^-^^t directi 

^° ^^^V- Of nights be ore ^^'^ S°>-- 

«ATISTCHE?f' (Russia-^ 

present moDent, to giv^v. necessity. 

»"'^'>'^r of kiio,;eters\e%. r " ^" 8^'ater detail ■ 

BUSUVEV rsL : ^°"'-'^<'i center Inrv ' 

TAriSTCHEiF B^t r • "V^ T and Mos cow . 

^-riocated fro. Mosco^rt^t^rt^i^^"' 

you please be 
craft you intend 


s p.i 

a ne 

ecraft. that 

vi t ab : f 


i t- is no t 
is f ron Houston . 



woJld'b: rv^j! rf-«-'-de in the 
(Russian) <^i«cussion. 

' *=onnected"wrM>^f'K '^'^ "^^^nges , vh i oh 
^n?..^^^'^^^ 3yste... V^^/r-t that we are aJopUng 


Uussian) tracking and rendezvous, 

arrangement for the 

. the AEerican 





^"ATlS TCHf- FF 
connection with 

anti'nnas - - 

A di f ferent 
(Russiari) - 

- - the a - - 
(Russian) - - 

- th^ orientation lights - 

- - (Russian) ^ 

1 n 


Tine: 10:00 A. K, CDT 

, ; Ueii in that connection then, is it 

trying out these sorts of things. 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) , , <r.„„ v;h ac 

TATISTCHEFF No. that does not fol low f rom what 

' '^'^AT^rTCHEFF ^'difro^t nean to i.ply that the 

syscel'lll undergo tests in actual flight in space. 
BUSHUYEV (Russian) ^ 

TATISTCHEFF And we will not u^ : . ^Hon 

docking system when docking wi th our space s tat i on . 
PAO Bl 11 Croney . 

i"/3r=cr=nnor.r.:.i::o'°n„:i'? :;£i. 

deterLned what caused that probier. w i c n t.e Us t Soyu^ 



BUSHUYEV (Russian) r a s t i on s of cours 

TATISTCHEFF Those are cwoditferent quebt.ons, 

'^?ISTCHEFF orthe^Mrst question. I would like 
ter^lnale^wlth ^he^'uestion -..h the proble. of the prec. 
location of the Soyuz Control Center - - 

?A?ISTC^EFF -"^yoS^^P-ialists will visit it. will be 
Chere and'tSey'll be alle to tell you p re c i s e 1 y J us t 
where it is, and what it consists of. 

;rns"Lrr w ,o„. .... 1 a.„c. 

involved directly Jn that progran. - - 

TAll5iV'^^rr " r»r.r.rffi In thfAnie'.ic 

- J;-'s/.:tL"sll"ru^rp.;t^;^.^.,.o.»l ..... 

pr.viosly estabUsh.J progra.., f 1 i gh I P rog r a. - - 

r/nrTcJ.rr I "- ^'l'^^ conduc... according .o ... p 

ASTP PC F/3 • ■' ' • ' ' '- 

j;-;,3'0:00 A. „. CDT 

PAO , 

Lt.VNEV ~ ~ (Russian)- - 

rATlSTCHE^.^ -'"Sr" -P-^ciaf * ^^^^ ^ t would 

t'lat Will be gi-.., , '^^^'^^ing module . 

previous nodufis -heck on th."^''; ^ -le.e-^ 

I'UN'NEY V Russian.) 

Hight after th/J' ^^'^"^ °' -^T? 
QUERY I'^" i^^f Skyiab one ' H lb , the 

not fly sotne^h Problem Jith c 

to fly Che di,:;"^^' f^-- you ons -de' 0°"^^^-'". -^^^ 

PAO '^•^cking system? / ^""^l^ered vh.-ther c, r not 

- - i-^ p'rnie.^'"^ .-stion and d..e.. 

OF Tape 

;^c;TF PC G/1 


the question and 

^'^'""''■^ tTJlVll^ complete 

,r^?t to an individual, please. ^^^^^^ the 

^"^•^"'^ V <;wvlab probUn «here they ^ '^'^ft e c te d or 
,epcrt -^f : ^,t;n\echnlcal change was no et ,,,,i.cee - 
changes and a «mHi^^^^^^ ^^^ f.own. ^« ^^^^^.^ fly 

you folKS ^^-""^if/^^^L also new? 
docking eystem. -^^^^ ^^^ . m 



between the SWylab 

just - 

There is no 
s V s t e n . 

conne cti on 

ve are not. Taere 
(Russian Translation) 

No we are " • ^ V ,v i n £^ 

J new docK-ing 

problem ana the ne^^ 

(Russian 'f^^^^^!'^^!,";„ain a complete 
And we will P^^^ ^^^^fdocki ng systen^h.nslve ground - test pro^ra. on t ^ . 

before it mes- (R.sslna 

Beth 1 n tf ru a i- i > 

Bin SheUoii Colonel l.eonov. 

course . tnai 


L.UN ;{EY 
countries and then 
We understand, of 

cuat arc a pain/ter and o ^our^prev-u^^^ 

vou took painting ""^Yleling an exhibit of your pain s 

MOSCOW and ^ ^...ed alter your ^^^"^^ l^,,, not show 

to ta.e a - to the naked eye tnat 

.exe things ^« ^^he q ue s t Ion ^ ^ ' / ^ ^ rchin g ^ at e r 1 al 

take on this ^^^/'J' ^ ^ a^rr. a pain inp- 
^^^^SEFF (Kusaian Translation) 
TAii^TCHEF^ (R^sslva) • , i ^.e t o do t h at in 

.ncp,: 1£ 1 win be Riven tir,t to a ^^^^ 
TATISTCHEFF 1^ p 1 an ne d . I v. i H 

connection to in space. 

happy to do some p . ^ ^ to wake 

At any rate I rrA gh l , >■ 
„f the crewa and ^^^PJ^;,, slayton. Deke 

This question ["',,^.1 ..ission. 
A,TP th. first PVirel>^POj^^ 




are calling 

they «-^^'/-^^^V;ti;;"the advantage or looking «^ ^ g . they 

The Russian "^/„ehange for that so _ your 


Tl me : 10 : 00 CDT 


answer the oa \ i t i r. ^ 

lease polu?:ar^L^\-^^-,^-/--.e I a. probacy .He 

politician on our c L:^' Gene rH"' ' ^ 

■STAFFORD I've Stafford. (Laughter) 

I'n not sure of the I IT ^ITiT,'^ °' ' of .things 

TATISTCHEFF (Rn.lill J^^^ticlan. 

STAFFORD To s t ^ r ? ^ ^ ' * °" ^ 

both countries are ei°h!'!f! °" '^^^ question 


flight opeiations 
far as designing 

exchanging data with respect 
(Russian Translation) 

We have - 
to their 



equal part 

Also, both countries had 
the docking mechanisms. 
(Russian Translation) 

which ca.o'fTom s o .e 'ad van c'e d °L o M ' '''''''' rin, 
structure latches cane f o" t he% alJuT h ' ' '^'^'^ 
TATISTCHEFF rR„cc< ^ '^ALUT design. 

STAFFORD I h ^ « 1 at i on ) 

^;/east in the operatLn': .ToVlS V -^otiations, 

electrical groups, before. -"'^'^ mechanical 

Trans 1 at i on) 

my viewpoint/ the exchange of 
in an equal manner, 
i rans latlon) 

better ..anne^ '^O'^'^, to work and 

(Russian Translation) 

these great technica?"probleifof'tM'''r'''^ to overcome 

working together. ' ^ ^ « T th i s r, I s s I o n by c wo coun t r i es 

(Russian Translation) 

we cannot solve 1 f w J\'o'k '^k Problem th.u 

understanding and tr!st ^^^^^^^^^ with .utuai cooperation. 

(Ruh^sian Translat ion) 

A« they say it - ^ , fifty-fifty 


infortnation flowed 
Over the period of 
cooperate in a far 



( Rus s 1 an 
And From 
both ways 
( Rus s i an 

P ropos i t 1 on . 

political office. 


and one to Professor Bushuvev. 
know the exact location of th; 

( Rus s i an 
And this 

( Rus s 1 an 
I have a 

morning I ata 

not running for 

Mas cow 


question tc General Stafford 
General Stafford, do you 
Sovlc-t Control Center in 

And Professor Bushuy.v J, ^^"^-^ 

y V, when you are going to launch 


Time : 10:00 CDT 

7/20/7 3 

V,- In JulY. Do you think that we , the 

the Soya, ship 19 5 ^ " / " ; ^ / , „ eover the launch 
western correspondents, will be aoie lu 

at BayKonur live, being there, , \ 

TATTSTCHEFF ^^^-f^ lirV-llJlll e xa c t 1 o c a t i o n of the 

,TAFFORD V ;f ' l^^^p-i^fetsor Bushuyev has saia 
centv.-^! contrd and 1 think Proteasor J ^ astronauts, 

that cur technicians and. 1 a. sure ^"^^.^J^^^^^//,, location. 
•Ml "isit there shortly, an d ve w i 1 1 kn t ne e x 
"But it I' not inportant at this tire that I can see. 

lATlSTCVlEFF (Russian Translation; 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) ^ w as add r e s s e d t o ne . 

TA-^ STCHEFF Now the question taat was addresst-Q v 

ceneral of what is going on. 

of ,,r;;":;-n .hlch the press «.d the ne « a will be 
inforraed of our activties. 



Time: 10:00 a.m. CDT 


TATiSTCHEFF - - will include a discussion of the 
manner in which the press and the aedia will be informed ol 
our activities. 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFF We are basing these discussi:>ns on 
the belief that both the press and r.he big public in general 
^ust be weil-lnforr-ed - properly and we 1 1- in f orr.e d on our 

activi t les . 

BUSHUYEV { Ru5s ian) 

TATISTCHEFF But at the same time, we are concerned 
that there'be a rr.ininum cf delays and difficulties in - in - 
in our work . 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) ^ i 

TATISTCHEFF I know, for exar,?le, that, vnen there is 
a flight in the United States, your press does r.ot get 
information about the Flight Di re c t c r f rom the control 
centtr but from a special lo c a t i on e s p e c i a lly ? r o vi de d lor 
you. , 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFF We believe that; that is a very reasonable 
thing to do and, apparently, it's the kind of thing that we r 
going t 0 do . 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) v, . 

TATISTCHEFF But I want to stress the tact that what- 
ever is done to infcrn tne press and the public on our ■ 
activities will be done on the basis of a mitualiy agreed 

: prog ran . ' , 

p AO B r u c e K i ck s . 

jjIQj^g I - 1 have several on one that has core 

up with this last question. Glynn, what are the specific 
science objectives that are b e i n g di s c us s e d ? They - several 
experirents, I think, were ne n t i on e d - o r 1 n ge r.e r a 1 . ^ ^ An d 
secondly, on the basis of this last question of possible 
coverage in Moscow, do you see in any way the r,utua agr...e- 
«ent on reporting of the flight - any curta ren. of any o, , 
past activities cf our methods cf covering flights? 

TATISTCHEFF I don't think 1 got tne as: one. 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) I don't - didn't get the last 

thlDwl'nsorry. , . 

LUNSEY I get it. He's asking aocu: the - how 

we will cover the fll»:ht from our pOlnt of view here in the 
United Slates and will there be any changes. 

TATISTCHEFF Oh. (Russian). 

LUNNEY There arc a nunber of 8 c i e r. t i f i c areas 

.ind technological areas presently being discussed as Candida 
for experiments on the flights. 


LUSNEY I should caution, I think, that there ar 

no final de ci s 1 on h as b e en made on t he se . but 1 will tell yo 
what they ar»- as a matter of information. 

Tl me 


a.m. CDT 


the eff 

h A ve 


LUN-NEY (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFf"^ U^L'r^^r^' "^i^h would - 

LUNNEY V«usslan) 

would Pleasure and correlar.''\T^^ ^°rrelate and 
t->e spacecraft ^ovin= ^^^'^ as to 

that phenomena and to''bet[er'^°''i'' -"derstandln, of 

TATISTCHEFF fR„co* "(^he plasna. 

LUNN-EY (Russian) 

LUNKEY (Russian) 

sciences experiments ! ^''^'K at several life 

™CHEFF (R.3sian) 

been conducted InWr^H 

unsT H^^^F^^^^ 

LL-NN-EY (Russian) 
^/■"dying material p roces'Ies '1'!° use of 

of the furnace^hat wL n " ^haps vi t h t^e 

•^^^^'-nt'^ ° ^^^^^^^ the .ain part c th/°"'' 
^ kinds Of phctographs'of the e,:ir" '"'^ 

LIKNEY (Russian) 
looking further at of hi ^'"Ited States s 1 de 

t^^at - Chat ve nil^Tlll '^P- ^ i „e n t s that ' i' 

TATISTCHEFF ' (Ku b ut ^ ,'1.7^ ' ' ' 

Lls'.vKY ^Russian) <- raure unilateral. 

a-^Pects'of the fll,ht^"-'^^ subject of the public l„r. 

TATISTCHEFF r" ~ , information 

LUXNEV (Russian) 

policies of tho u ^ '^^^ customs rm^., 

TATI^TfirL ^^"^ country in -hlc ' ^ ^ i on s . and 
'AilSTCHEFF (Rusfilar\ ^ ^ regard. 

rAt?S?SHEfF^'''?^° ^? the past. J"^t as 

V Kus s 1 an ) 

to soDe of the studies th. 
"^^^ - take sa.pleru;"^ 


Ti no : 10 :00 a.m. CDi 

7/20/ ; J 

,yv-N-KY We have been discussing a public . n- 

for Che r.lssion that ue are nov In. tho' is the pre i B 

phase .■■ . ■ . , 

TATISICHEFF (Russian) , . 

TUNNW And althous;h we haven't signed a 

specific' docuioent. we a re in de e d , i a : ac c . perforr^lng .ccord- 
Jng Jo'he 'greerrints that are laid out in that docunent - - 
^ATISTCHEFF (Russian) 
lJnNEY - - for exanple, :his press conference. 

TATISTC15EFF (Russian) , 

LUNNLY After ve are able to sign 

Cr,e document on the phase. ^'^ ^'^.J^^^^t.? ^^/^.^e 
e.wnest our discussions o : the cove race relative to 
flight portion of the mission. 

TATISICHEFF (Russian) ; 

[f;;FY we have not yet, in our discussions, 

got .o the point of di s cus s ing cove rage by the -stern 

Press, for exar.ple. at the S ovi e t 1 aunch site. Ve 
just not gotten there yet. 


LUNNEY But w e w i 1 1 In tine. 

TATISICHEFF (Russian) f . - i cV C r I s Then 

p^Q Take one more h e re f r om i cK tris. inen 

ve ' II RO t o Washi n gt on . ^ „ <■ , 

rpiV Today's the four: V^""^^-^'-^^''>^^ 

U s Moon landing. In the early 1960'3. during a number 
of' spectacular successes by the Pussia:. space prograr,. 
°o soviet Union promised to send - that first nan on tne 
Mcon v.;uld be a Russian. Wh:U happened? And the second 
part is. thev have said the Zond Frocran vould be the 

vehicle for sending their - " ^ " ^ / / 

couple of shots in 1966 and then n othin g - not h in p no rc. 

Wh at happened here? i , ^ - t 

TAriSTCHEFF (Russian) 1 don't know it 1 understood 

that Zond business very veil. Flight in 68. 

SPEAKER (Russian) /' . .^irerilv 

TATISICHEFF Although ^ ^' ^ ^ ' ^ / ^ " " ^ , J U t . - 


with a program developed ahead of l i ae . 

SPEAKER (Russian) rii u, ■ 

TATISTCHEFF A5 you know, that progran plans flights 

In near-space close to the earth. 

SPEAKER (Russian) ^ chlial 

TATISICHEFF I to - 1 have in '^^ ' ' '/^ ' 

stations and space - spacecraft in crbit around the earth. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 


Tirar : 10:10 


- orbital stations and spacecrift in orbit. around tlie Earth. 
SPE.^:<£R (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFF And the otiier portion of the Soviet program 
has to do with flights intodeep space by automatic spacecraft 
to the Ho on and elsewhere. 

t'AO We'll go to Washington now . I would remind the 

p.^riicipants here to pause briefly after hearing the question to - 
a i i ow tiiac for switching the line, please. 

lATISTCHEFF (Russian translations) 

SPEAKER Ncrnjan Baker. This meeting that we have 

just ccncluded in Kous ton o r i gi nally was set for 3 weeks, 
and then we learned last week that it had been reduced to 
2 weeks . Who's decision was that? 

lATISTCHEFF (Russian translation) 

L UN KEY Well, let ne answer the first part of 

that. This is Glynn Lunney speakine. The work for each 
neetlng can only be laid out just so speciflcaly before wc 
actually arrive on the scene and sit down and discuss the 
ji nd a . 

lATISTCHEFF (Russian translation) 

LUNNEY Upon arrival and discussion of the agenda, 

we determine that the work cou 1 d ac t ua 1 1 y be conducted in a 
tire f r ace of 2 weeks. 


said unless Pro 

(Russian translation) 
And we have maintained 
(Russian translation) 
I don't think anything 

that schedule 

oo r e ne e ds t ;) 

essor Bushuvcv would like to comnent on 

Lunney said, 

(Russian translation) 


Yes. I would like to confirm what 
Dr. Lunney said, that ve discussed the progran l.t-re when we 
first arrived and we succeeded in fitting allofourwork ■ 
into 'a 2-veek period. 

BUSHUYEV (Russian) 

TATISTCHEFF In addition to that, the - a core lengtiiy 
retting, a 3-veek r.eeting, would havc presentei difficulties 
for our sLi-f because sor.:e of the p a r 1 1 cl pan t s i n Our delfKiation 
Ifre havf duties at ho re which cannot be postponed. 



15 ninutes and we 
do have sor.e riore 




Are there any more questions from Washington? 
(Russian translation) 

Okay. '<*e have been go^n^ sore hour and 
want sor.e pho t og r aph s . These gentienen 
work to do, so wc will e no the xi c w s con f e r c nc e 

(Russian translation} 

Yeji. if the other cosmonau t -j * - 

(Russian translation) 


time : 10 :00 CDT 

1 non:i 

PAO Okay, We vlJ.l go back to Washington 

f c r q ueR t lond , p le AS e . 

QUERY Th i s •! s No raian Bake r . Thanks, gentlemen, 

for bearlngvflth us on thla. tbtsls the sec on d part of 
ny original question. Professor Bushuyev said that they 
wanted to get back but sor.c nenbers of their people had 
to get back to their duties. I wonder if he would cotrinent 
on the fact that the Soviet nanned spaceflight tracking 
ships are nov deployed in theAtlantic and would this be 
with regard to another nanned spaceflight with the Soviet 

XATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 
BUSHUYEV (Russian) 

lAriSTCHEFF That was the deploying of these - deployment 
of ihes<> tracking vessels and is not an indication of an 
inninent flight of the new spacecraft. 

BUSK'JYEV (kussian) 

XATISTCHEFF But there are several other types of 
space programs hive been planned and are being carried out 
in the Soviet Union at the present tiree. 

8USKUYEV (Russian) 

TATI b'TCHKFF That have a relation to Soyuz flights. 

PAO May we hav« the next question from 

Washington, please. 

Query This is Jl» Slade, Would one of you gentlemen 

please give »js a broad outline of the rendezvous proceeduro. 
How much of the operation will be conducted by the Apollo 
ship and vhat is required of the Soyuz at the present t i ir.e *" 

TAIISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

SPEAKER Veil, this plan will be somewhat sinilar 

to what wf had, ! gu^iss m the (icnlni 7^^ r.i sr. i on , 
where wo have one spacecraft as a target vehicle with t ransponde r in 
Li ghts . 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

SPFAKER The Stjyuz will be launched fron tiielr crMUfr 

•md do two c ! r r t» 1 a r i 2 a 1 1 on nanuv^rs. 

TAnSTCHKFF (Russian Translation) 

SI4sAKI:R And 7-1,2 he urs later, when the orbit of 

SoyuJ conses across Cape Kennedy, we launch with Apollo. 
iATISTCHKFF (Russian 1 r an fi I a t i on ) 

STEAKFR And after n scries of nanuvers, we will 

rendezvous apftoxlnately 1 day later. 

TATISTCHEFF (RuDsUn T r ana U t i on ) 

SPEAKER So in flunienry, after launch, Soyut makes 

! wo nani'vcrs t o c i r c ul a r i Its orbits. 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translallon) 

STFAKER Apolin acts as the active v<»hlcle and 

does A «eri»"s of nanuvtfts to forpi a rendezvous. 
1A1 ! STC.IEFF (Ruf.sian Translation) 

PAO General Stafford antswered that question. 

Hay vi«> have ih^ next que^t^6n, pl«>Ase. 

ASTP PC j/3 . . ^ - 

'"^^r.-rrts or s-.^ talk^K the ■^'"''^ 

■^ov;ot f,:,,'-^''^''^'^^«a ni,,.,*, /"""t the Sovi.t cir''^'" 

answer th* 

P^Hciei , '^»«tion pUns / ! ^ side wo.,}^ 

^"riT%^„,°?? -^uL"," wu. 

"^"d «,dv to do rXdv f"r' 

or TAPr 

Tine: 10 : 00 CDT 

TATISTCHEFF ( Ru3 9 1 an T r ans 1 a t i on ) 

LUNNEV Poch sides have agreed to build full- 

scaie docking syste?ss tor th6 purpose of engineering 
development teat. 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

i-^^^f^'i Ihose testa, of both the American design 

and the Soviet design, will begin here, In Houston, in about 
Septsnber . 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

LUNN'EY As another example of subsiiance. I would 

like •:(5 eay, fror. ny own personal experience in the business 
of planning flights, tnat we are vfery far ahead of the pace - 
schedule tiiat ve have usually maintainfid In our own program. 

TAIISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

lUNNE^ General Stafford's first flight in our 

progran was in uenini 76. 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

J-ow ycu know - you recall that flight plan 
was created in a catter of just a few months. 

lATiSTCHKFF (Russian Translation) 

Ll'N*Nf.Y In this case, in planning for this tsission, 

we have & very detailed timeline - flight plan in two languages 
covering the entire course of the rendezvous and the docking 
phase of the flight. 

lATISTCKEFF (Russian Translation) 

LU;^N£Y This is far ahead of the usual schedule, 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

LINKEY I think at that I will J rave it. although 

tiierc ^re other examples of concrete accomplishments in 
subjects in the prograa. 

VA r I S TCilEFF (K us si an Translation) 

'^'*^'^ iiecause of the time we tnust ihi- 

co-aI tience to two care <5vie3tion3. Hay ve hrtve the nfxl one, 

'H'^'^'^' This is (garble) for Professor uuftli viv e v . 

Win you lilt; cuss th» level oi hypersonic studiri bfltig 
civrved cut ai th^ ;<ntral Instllute cf A re ohyd r od ynnm 1 cs . 
v)iich is (garble) and a (g.irble* instif ste In relatlon«hip 
t r- future :>i>viet c?v«lopment of reusable space vehicles. 

''AO Vouid you repeat the question pl^'ase? Talk 

slowly and repeat it please. It was not undemtocd here, 

* ' f-RV To Professor Bushuyev. Would yoti disi^uss 

thi* level of hypersonic studies belnp carried out, we believe, 
>it the Cenlrai Institute of Ae r dhyd r odynaral c s in (garble) 
.Hill the (gArbic) Institute In relationship to r^usablt 
Sovitt *:pace vehicles. 

TAriSrCHEFF (Rufaian Interpretation) 

Time: 10:00 CDT 

TATISTCHEFF I am afraid these questions go very far 
beyond the framework of our present progran and 1 am unable 
to give you any conments on them. 

QUERY As regards the planned journey to the 

Soviet Union of the astronauts in November, a couple of things. 
First of all, will It involve the prime crew, the backup crew, 
and the support crewmen. Appruximately, how long will they 
be there, and will they get an opportunity to go to more than 
Just tiie Soviet space center or centers that are involved? 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

SLATON We haven't scheduled when it is, which 

is approximately 1 week after Skylab ^ launch, so that 
we can in fact take the full prime and backup crew. 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

SLAYTON We do net anticipate a large group traveling 

I think about two or three more astronauts In addition 
to the pritr.c andbackup crew. 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

LUN.SEY And the details of what occurs on that 

visit are being worked out between General St.ifford and 
General Shatalov, 

TATISTCHEFF (Russian Translation) 

PA0 It is necessary for the participants to 

leave ntVui . We thank theo for their patience. Thank you 
very much . 

TATIfttCHEFF (Russian Translation) 


Sis* JiC 


Apollo/Soyus Te«r p / 
;;ohnson Space^'^'^' ^-leflng 
November 19. 1973 ' 
• 'J J pra CST 

Glynn S. Lunney a^tp ^ 
'fit '^len.. PAo'' Technical Direct 


TIME: 15:03 CST 

PAO ^^^il and take 

J'^e purpose of thl ^ "'"''^ for the thi^^ t.iere ! « 

been hi. "^^etlng was ."^^^^rd week in Ocr^^ 

"'^1" purpose of th ' ' '''^ cJ.alrnan ' . ^^'^''^"n Sp^ce (j.., , 
'T^^'^ that h.d been ber''"« "'^^ • Jho 
^" the Operation f^""' ^^<i a fafr ' <^°"tlnuc. iu^ 

''-'^continued. l/e Centers etc ^ 0,-^ the ' 

^^^•^ °n the deal'n ^'i' ^" working gr„uo i ''''' ^^^k 

~^^^^ions'k: - Plans for 'he^'^trr, ' '^-tfl;.,, 

t'llked about the t^^.f <=°nnunica 1 1 ^^T^ ^ radio 

co..uMcat.onrcap':i. Hrst Par t 'oTiJ ^ nr 

■'I t'u> Center, Th». ' ^ostinp t« k ^'e have 

;7"*p-nt that wr;:,j;"'^^'« r;r?rr<^ 

comprehensive t ^a'^w " u T""" ^ « ^ Uns r^c k s ! T'^^ 

— > -O.P r:-rt,:/-- r-- . r^:-- 

o" finishing up 

Ar. re I'c «a/2 
iriK: ]3:0 J CS f 
1 1/19/73 


as nuch of the design and procedures as could be done 
the other emphasis was on preparing for this test thai will 
be conducted here first part of next year. In working goup 5 

here was contiaged work on the items associated with tSe 
. ^L'^- are_ tines when the of the 

.^1., . , , mii^ii uue volumes 

dockinr- nodule and the Soyuz will be open to each other So 
we have a con 1 1 nu i no d i 1 ogu e on the subject of the Life suDoort 
Systems and how well they work. l/e nad llso a he e^d of ti'e 
meetin,. and I'll come back to this subject, we had TstaLs 

oJI^^'AnS';, ^"'^^ ''^ Adninistrator of NASA, cane 

tlil'. f ? I" ass^^ss the status of the worV- at 

this point, to sec h<.w it was going. And he was Joined by 
Academician Petrrov who a<:ted for Academician Keldich (?) 
the dep - Who Is the p r es 1 d e n t o f t h e Soviet Academy of Sciences 
He was not able to attend the meeting because he wa<. ill 
Acadeciiclan Petrrov worked xn his stead to r.view the status 
of our work during the week after the two weeks of meetings. 
We reached a nunber of decisions which I think would be of 

^^!^n^wi^^"?^'^'"^"' ^^^^^^ ^one documents 

I t.iink would also bo of interest to people. And I'll touch un 
on a couple of subjects that I know peopie were cur ious about ' 
h'e e Me't°"' '''' ^'"^ '''' the Russian delegation wa 

^enort, f ^'^'^ " """^er of Safety aasossnent 

repor s at this peeting. the safety assessment reports that 


Tine: 15:03 CST 

3ble to'sipn a numbed ~of''"lV^" delegation was here. We were 

neetiaj>. ?l,e sa^et^ .L ^' reports at this 

<.i>i«. ine satety assessment reports that wp ^.-tf^ 
over and above thp .loo^-,,, / H^i^a unac we write are 

aoc.inn systens h^ jrc'::'%^rc:^ra^^^K^ '^^^ °" 

the safety assessment repor ts Is tn ^ ^ Purpose of 

the safety of s i tua t lo a 'ih ch r en ' t Slr'c ^ l '"''^ ' .''^ ^ ' 
interface type docume n t a 1 1 o n we 1 a v e f or t^ e H 

;.:rj; h^- :a-n:;s^-e^[h-:r:^"^^ 

craft .na how nLr;:y:\:r:' r %oTth ^^rpL^u^if t ^r^^- 

that would To w trsud'a oro^n* ^ - the indications 

valves th.t c«n H« ! ! prohlen. and the fixes with the 

.rea of Jh t xaLu ^h' c.^; °' Proble.. m the 

-vi . . '^*^"'pie, tUG cabin pressure t.ifpts- 

;ble to both Mgn reports on both s i d d es c r M . % ' ' 
tnat we have and the nethods that we ar« Hkli^^^' tne systens 
beconlnf. a serious problen Vo La ^^^Ing preclude that 

assessment r e por t s , ? ?r e s n f e t v ^ of other safety 

structural la^che^ -^L^a ^ nTc\!cXu;''^'rr ^ ''"^ 

I mentioned that firo we t^ll.A J Checkout, cUnabllity - 

and ve were able to a^ree on an ouM^ ^'r"'"** ^>'«^^^« 

-ports so V. „ade a ;o%d°^ 1 ° ^ r 3 ^ J ^ ^ ^ r ^ ' ^ 

problen Of how\ o i n:o?:e ' he r s f o^r tr ' 'h"' °" 

and sonc of the test that would be ^^^f ' country. 

systens. And we rcach^r preforned on tlie radio 

nUe would So to he launch' 's'i?:^ r J/^'r ' ^ ^ ^« ^ ^ 
r«dio equipment, and f " h e c : f ' n ' 'tV''' 

communications equiDnent '"f/*'" '^"^'^'^^ 'f'*" cable 

txirdUnc »,.l..rf<.r i Soyuz this then provlje, . 

nnd tested it the r..or,«^n. » ''irt.s would be fit checked 

-ch countr aiS ti r 'LpcHmtr;^" "''•'^^ - 

p.irtlclpate in tho, e r es t s '^So 1 • 1 w [ """^^ 
special electro.a«net.c i:;pai u;:\: 'i'' ""'^^ 

tho«c In Drdcr to be «.ure th,t Ih« tests. At the tlwt We do 

«re not affectln? the coLanJ^M »PaC*cralt 

Tine: 15:03 CST 

expuct til at we will do i ,r . . 

life support testln". • u - h i v*. «L,.strvtis (or .soirn- tht.- 

en«lneerln, prototyp; > c ^e U fe^" ^ ^ ^ - 
nodule, which Will be i h.. > • "'"^ ^" '^^^ dockin-, 

Will be back in test i, been in test In October. u 

rron tne Soviet n r e r r^r^ i "^n" ^ ' ' ^^^'^^^^ -P-^s 

In February some of ou r ne n w i n n ^ ^ °' " Likewise. 

Witness see of test^n. on th L'uT i e"''^" " ' ^''^^^^ 

tt.e Soviet Union. ??e h-,d h \ t »"PPort systems in 

think, opportunities on this 0!:^° V ' '^'^^^^ ^ ^n, , I 

especially J n t c res t inp to he r In ^^'^^^^^ "'^^ 

went to Star City af n tt vh i ^ !^ ' ''^^ ' ' ^ " Ho Ston. V/o 

which is used to train f ! '^^'^'^ "P of the Solvut 

-tivity. We aU^: ; a ^rwh^rra'^^ ^'^S '^"'^ Hinn't ' 

new Simulator is bein. cons ructcd 'c' lh"' ' ' " 
training ff,r this flight * «-he purposes of 

the Soyuz. Ue vent tT f, Perhaps for some other work with 

f.miliL with tae ra ;'n'th":r:'' ^7^'^ ^^'^'^^ ^« ^^--"^^ 

hive some t r a i n i ne c f o. r ? , ^ ^ °" this year we'll 

center. We did vfsU a i u\ " \r ^' ^" "-'''-l 

area, and spent .omo tino h - o^rln^ 1 n op, , , , ^ 

the rest of tne rooms th^r w ./^"'^^"R ^he - t ou r i n^ t h r ough 
C-erai .ppearancc l !| o t a" . n ! "^"^ ^ ^ ^ - 

that we have in the - n this cnun, c on t r o 1 c en t e r . 

r^rly si:.ilar. cha r ac "r zJd ^v^^n ' ' of fact it'* 
screens - lar,c d i s p 1 a y sc r e e n! ^ r " ^ ^ ' ^ so»e Urr.e dis - 
systen on th e ind J v fdul 1 ! ! '^'•"^ television display 


TIIIE: 15:03 

, think «. haJ a very ■ •'"f ;^„,° J . „„rlng c.e veek that 
thorough tour of th. control had 

v.nt to Star City and "°^^,jj„ieian P.trov as to 

a forn.l revlav by Dr '■"'/f „era. a leaat tron ha 

M,, s-atus of our vork. And mdeeo pleased to report 

nl"f vlev of the Pr«-'"'. t Tr^ Is ,oln. on achedule. 

:tr'^.i"rrrti,:t^3rhrr o To ,o>nt.y^tosetn. 
i':r:e":;:r5er:^: 'n'^a iFarann-s:nd:U!"%rd-ure/.s: 

-r^e .re;:nr.rori e /o trt t a re.rt.;^^^^^^ 

retrro:r:-T°"^n^^^^^ -r'-""" 

U\re"t::r:,rol"Lre."rnro r tn,n, eU 

iolntlv do mcludln.-, ^ '\« ° , d oc ane n t . 1 1 on at tM 

J°ve sirned about two-thirds f ^^^^Z,; „,ch on schedule with 
point. So indeed we do «een to be v ,,,,, been 

rhe preparation for the ^ ^ ^ ' ^ „ore ar.d more efficent as 

.Ttu^Uly beconlnc , 1 e a ^s b e 1 1 e r what to ex.ect fro« a 

we go along and each »^J"/^"^ble conraunicale what each side 
,lven nectlng. ^? l^e if 1 tnee t inc and i ndeed 1 tnnV 

intends to ^^<= ^ ^ ^\ \ ^ ^ ^ In Re ne r a 1 Is one that is - 19 
the probler, of ^ onnun ic a 1 1 o n in ge ne ^^^^ 
bowlnr. just regular signs of inprove ^^^^ ^^^^^ 

experience dealinp. ^ ^\ " ^ 1 i 1 1 1 c fotCtSt, right now 
together. We have to gxvc you * ople with 

ie have a nu:nber 1 ion . Vou ,ay recall th«t^ 

then in the Soviet or ^ " i^^^^',* ,f coaaon.uts. th.nt is the 
thi« Bu< we had the Jj^^ assigned to th.- 

entire group of ^ f \ ^t'^^J!: 1 1 1 « o r a r e f.r f a.i 1 1 ar 1 t I on 
flight, plus one docking tnodule and etc. Wo 

„Uh the Apollo sys e«« J"^ J' '/^^ t,,,^, h*ve the Prl'^" 
have not quite our f " ^ ^ / ^ 1. , support crew on the trip 

'nd the b'ck up crow ^''.^J I'^^age in a Ught ty ,j- 

,o loacow this ^^"^'/^^ f,/s'i^/iyste«s tnat they wou.d be 
of fanlliaritallon with ^/^^"J ^^^^ t . V. arc planning 
exposed to during the ,'^1 y «ot full working 

s^voral snail r.eetlng " n 1 addr... specific 

proup meetings but «c«tlngs vlU also have 

subiects within the working 8^ '"P* January leading up 

a firny ««Jor rablli »t it. February. The next 

to the start of the compat i abl 1 1 1 y 

TIME: 15:03 

11/19/73 . . ipl 

for Houston in Match of "e'^'^ y-^^l establish the exact 
\ll exact date, or for ..,ect to be son,e- 

adlenda for that e t 1 ns . . Bu t we w the 
tinp in the nonth of 'l^"^^'^ • since Septeaber. a process 

^ n^er today and it ^-^^^^J^ t at have built. Ve 

of testmc this new <1°^^ ^"J^^^" „a8 built here in me , 
have on site a docking ^V^/^^'J^^^^^ ^ Ty .he Ilockwell International 
united States in Uowny t actually almost two 

Corporation and we have a Jo*^'^^"^ J ^embers of the 

dockln, systens 'sj tens have been in the process 

Soviet test tea.. -^^^ J^/^f, r^^d-Septenber , Actua 1 ly - 
of testing since as "^°"\™er e is a fair amount of net 

weren't testlnC aU % ' ' , The t es t ar c almost 

up work in preparation of ^ ^^^^^ ' ; . „ , ,hai have to be taken, 
conpl^'te with the "-"^^ ^ ^ ^ /.^ ^^^wh e r e . ome a<ld 1 . i ona 1 

There's a P- ^ «^ ^ ^ ^ aX c n V t ine per n, i t s and that will 
test points uay be taken as ^ f Noventer. 

robaEly r.o -/°r^';.«^;r wS ch best I think shows what's eoing 
L^e a filn c 1 f . J ^^'^"^ ad cons ider ed p.oins over 

on in the docVlnp. ^ ^ ^ ^ ' . i t es t but there are two problems 
e.ere and s;;-;^/,- ? ,r t i"" ou t s i d e both devices are 
really enclosed In a large shroud - 


ASTI' PC 41) /I 
Tine: 15:0 3 


LUHtJEY - - docklnp, test, but there are two problems 

wltii it. One Is that fron the outside both devices are really 
enclosed in a larp.e shroud the purpose of which is to iiold 
either hot or cold gas so we can test at hot or cold tenpera- 
tures; and the other problem is that the tests don't always 
?,o on tine like the liftoffs do. You night spend a fair 
amount tine standing around waiting for the test to go, I 
think I'm in way of the sc r e e n , b u t 1 e t me show the f i In and 
see It I've forgotten to tell you anything and thon see v;hd t 
yTu're questions might be. Ara I i-^ the way? 

PAO Glynn, T think we'll have a problem seeing 

1 1 thoufih . 

LUU'.IEY - _ systems and it is the active systi-n 

for doCklnr,. Vou can see the shroud in tue backf.round pt-rhaps. 
Is tlie nlkc on? Can you hear all r Igh t ? I t doesn ' I fiound i i k 


on. Here's Llic other dockinfi sysitCT now coming up, you 
can see thfe f.uide pedals witi finp.ers approach 1 nj", the Ruidis 
of tlieother systems. The system in mounted on a a t t e nui i oi s 
in order to provide the Initial capture and tiie ring would 
then be retracted where structural Intches would be made very 
slnilar - at least in concept to the way we do the Apollo dockinj^ 
What they are recordine; there l think are the test conditions 
that they tfeited on that last run. Here's the rin^', down here 
this t Ine . The systens on it ia mounted on a set of base 
rlno.a, Six. legs wh ich d r I ve t h i s s ys t en up and ->rovide the 
relative hotlon that the spacec ra f ts would have as they approach 
conditions. Tliat's pretty hard to sec, isn't li? 
that one a little better. I would think that's 

Yeah. Perhaps the best thing to do th«n would 
quest i ohs . 

Bruce ? 

One brief one that the film brough up. 
plates of thi! flongea that are on the 
hit each otner direct and not - and don't 

the capture 
You can see 
e nough , Mel 
be to RO to 


Wha t hii ppens if the 
outside of the ring 
meet in be tween . 

1 in i nk - - 
Does it twist or-- 
No. Tiie purpose of the 

fingers is to 

provide a form of guidance so that the - - 


of the rlno m, ^^arble) t;,. f, 

vehicles ullrtlltr" ^"'^ ^^^^^ e?ne'': V^^^*^- - fUrly 

"'^^^ set a good capturi "^'^ ''^^1 slide f ^ ''^ " 8^ ' ' * ng 

^estlno that's polL '"a.ter of f you 

SO and stii; ^'^ ^' °" to reall! ^"^^ kind r^? 

^^-t hov'r'ar^:;- ^"'^ ^-o d /:r,'°r you can the tvo^i ca.t °" T Pr ed U 1 1 !n " 

talking about together at th! ^ou 

^" -.^t^s^JhaT^^ 

the approach nane,.^!* planned th,f , 

there, .so that ittln^^'^'' the danper« ^ ^ t 

"^^ther we wo.ld do « ^" t 1 ve sh .V ««v ' 

your worVi„« ^"^ i r o nme n t a 1 Hf„ ^'-cond crew return . 

J ^ wortrinj, . "«^a/ life support «ve^ "-"T" were 

t^.e Observer renor ? ^^''^^ions «.de hn?] ^""^'^ between 
LUNNEY rt chfl n 1 c « U y 

attenuators. ' thing is jj.^, 


Tine: 15:03 

really .ore of pr .pro. uc t «v,r""J ''V "'^''''^ 

test. nut I iMnJc'^U. t horarr "T?, ^ ^ " P^'^ " ^ 

jssunptlons went ..t. ^ tc-lliari us is that the 

when we use tlu- nr oHnr t < V ^""'^ 1^ 1 nd o f r u 8 u i t s 

test next yeJr. ^ ^ °" hardware In the qualification 

-^rjj;it or taac - l?^?if:j;^- ^--^ 

l-U .< i< r. I U« 1 1 » ' i_ " : 

whereby the two Cos™;:l: be s.'l LTf^''"' 

were also suited for launch AnJ ^^^'^f '""^ ^"^''y- They 

hose sysce.. They f i'.tr^/, .t^t'lll^r 1,1' t'T'' '''' 

sy.^ens between"rh:^;:ot:d^re/:rth^t'Jhcr:r.^'!'^"^^ 

the vai.e which U mor T '?h k ' I"-'" ^ ov.r r i d. on 

which can be clo.'j !nd ^'^f ^ t),, Cosmona. ts and 

of separation! ' probacy would be closed at the t(„e 

Lu .< .« E Y Y e s 8 i r T' c 

l^lnd of a gas which will be " r ed uc.d to'-'^ro/n" ' "™P-«ition 
atmosphere or lb PSl to 10 PS I Th/tn i f u ^ """^ 
it ,uns there will hav. ess cnU a Uy 5 ' ^.'^ ^^'^^* 

pure oxypen in the command »odu e 'and we .1 l''''^''-^iy 
nitrogen supply - «oauit., and we nave oxyp.on and 


Tine: I5i03 CST 

n/19/73 . 

LIJNNEY ■\:'h:\ri'ixv-'V^'' The Apollo by tUe tine it g«?j8 rliere will 
have essentially 5 PSI of essentially pure oxygCii In the 
connand nodule. And we huve oxypen and nitrogen supplies on 
board the docking module so that we can sort of natch the 
environment really of the Apollo and then go up and cone close 
to matchlnn the environnunc of the - of the Soyus and then come 
back down In pressure in tht< docking nodule until our sen have 
returned safely back to tlie command oodule. 

vJUERY Glynn, 7 have two unrelated - I would 

presume that • that ycu learned thi* fact that the • that it was 
a valve Icnk as supposed to a httch leak during the safety 

LUNNKY Yes. Not, not as* part of the saftity 

accessn-snt report but - in our discussions we had a fairly full 
treatment of the problem, to the point where w« are aati^tfied 
that ve know what happened and we know what the fixes are and 
they appear Indeed to be very bubstantlal In terras of flxin*; 
the pr ob lens that they had. 

QUERY And the othtj", last time we talked vith 

you when the Soviets were here. We discussed press CHverase 
i>f the launch ^nd o t h e r f ac 1 1 it J es and there if^rt - 1 v^Rderstand 
there was work being done on docking at >hat tine. Now what 
is the progress of that and i/hat did you learn during your 
trip that misbt indicate whether westerners will witness the 
launch and so forth? 

LUNSEY Basically, we have been s t r up,?, 1 1 ng w i t h 

the problem of - of - of tlie public infoiraalion arrangenents 
for the prelaunch part of the f I igh t . We have not yet really 
begun to discuss what tno a r i-'angeraent s would be for the actual 
conduct of the flight, which would involve your treasured trip 
to the launch site. So we just haven't got to the point of 
wrestlinii; with that yet. Our cosmonauts will be out at 
Star City. Jack have we had any d e ve 1 o pne n t a on that? In terms 
of coverage at Star CLly, do you know? 

• SFEAKER Yes, I do. It's ny understanding. I don't 

have it verified, but lb American cor r es pondi'n t accepted an 
invitation to to Star City today t^view the Joint activities 
between our astronauts and the cosmonauts. 

LUNNEY And I think it would be fair to SJy thai - 

that progress is corainn along Bruce, and we - wo have yet to 
address in any detail the coverage that we would have actually 
durini', the flight and the kind of arrangenents that would have 
to be made. But l think steps are being taken to provide the 
kind of coverages that you would be satisfied with in the 
preflight phase and, I think, the visit to Star City, although 
rlfht now it's unve r I f led . I f tha t turns out to be the case, 
that's an ex;^mple that things are going reasonably well here 
in this stage of the game. 

AST" l'CV,K/2 

I can'c 

''•'it'' ■ ■ I 

Can you Jigg 

•^"^8 What tho«e 

- > till 

by u„ o/f" °' b-vlr. Dr. 'hl„n. tit., "> "« '"rncd 

""'"^WM "ore' b'v"-' °''»^«-na",' °" 

"Isltinp del,, „ ,""■"'"•'» Of ,hl ' Of tryl,; : "tJtus 

v'lon va h,,,, ,, ■ ""on't k„ou i oointry " o' t^e 

8ot to »ae "'"o„,„^,"7^.J'°'' ucl, J;'; 'I'o .c.i„i,l,« 

o?°f or., r; 

f^'t to see 
Hi ore 

s t a e 

^''-'t rna^n nrohl t'>is Is 

^hen have to the [fj '^^""^ next ^ 

that ail M,^ to<iether ami «"PPOrt sysM ' 

."'^y ^hat ,ne 

^t this 



^"'■e that ail t),» " '"'^'^cner 
whole quj. "-"e assijmn^i,. 

Thar 'o^"''" ^^11 work '^"^t went i ^ 

use to ^cti..,, '^°P™^'nt of . ' ^'f^s . Tl. r. V^^'rm. 


the ciip-fci.g ^ 

f.VD OF 

^ -> i ndti of 


AS TP PC^<G/1 ■ 
TiMEi 15; 03 CST 


In aay logical cycle' 'ollow« th,. ^ ^ 

think nexc v«Ar 4iw.ivp has In „ of courNe 

those ki^da^^f' «««pha«l, vtll 6% unH I " 

Control Center/an ' ^^'"^ ^'^ wlK hava''V'"'^'"« of 

or «l:iaion role as w/^ ^«in8 sure wl ? ! ' ^'^^^^ 

''•'^^ »^in<l of a pr^bU^ country "iV / Procedure 

the detail o?^^r"*c^°" important waa it . 
^''^'t you had to hLV 11 accident? ^^ '° i'-'-'irr. 

Unfitly on that , y., had. I .J' « option? 

Painful «ub]ec :;'Jr^- ri^ht/o'nr'i'"":,? i^^^i-^ i>it 

°^ th« mission that r k*"" ^^^^^ ^'ag 1 ne 'a. d ' ' " ^'^^^iy 
^hat were Involved 1^.?''^*^ P^'^""*'<^ ^rsuch th ^ t^'' 

all involv d K.?""' ''hatever tuoy 1 » systems 
J-'^ed toget^r'rn'a" "wo Te^l really 

it „aa aoaethlng' ,^%'^/''»-l^ ^ i 1 1 on ' ' / " ^rblt 
^iJ provide us with , , mandatory that ^ \ t aay 

"spacecraft 1 a'ei? /^od underatajf' ?/"°r' 

and a reaction to a n* Jf'^^'' ""^^^^^tandiL of of 
^an b, taken, and trll J'"' of he d. T"''^"'^ solving. 

In the course of thJ^^ language barrier - 

l^'^'y not a prob : ProbU^ J^, ~ Actually 

the ojr.^^^rr.! !!!>■• H^od 

As a 

* nterpeters 

TIMK: 15i03 CST 
11/ lS/73 

one lanp;uaK<i or tl<e other, llien gut it irunslatud and lltun 
fiet i t ver If l«d , th« t i t rea 1 ly says tlie sane thing in both 
lanp.uagea , ' And In tliat ccse It's cunberaone and fairly 
tine consuralnp, . W« have gotten to the point where we fully 
recop.nljse tUit difficulty and we - we, in most cases, allow 
the time for it. And we, in most cases, have tho ataffs to 
handle tliat kind of a problem for meetings elthtr here in 
Houston or in .Moscow. And I tlilnk I have to aay that it haa 
really gone pretty we) I. For example, the last taoeting - I . 
lion't really know how many pagcj we signed, but wo Just had a 
Rtack of paper about that high that had been translated. Sone 
of it nad been sent before the meeting, but had been translated 
.md verified and we were reasonably certain that the Russian 
and the Enp.lish were the sam- . Terms of the spoken word for 
the fliflit, which Is maybe tiso of interest to you. We have had 
our astronauts in language training. Some have had more tine 
than others. The cosmonauts are also taking English and 
both groups use ever y oppor tun i ty , I think, to try out and 
try to extend thelrabiliiy to comnunlcatein the other 
fellow's languaf.e. And indeed the astronauts and cosmonauts 
sesm to be not anywhere near f 1 t ;;h t level yet, f 1 i ;;a t protlcency, 
but they do seem to be able to alonp. with each othtT 
pretty well even if there's not a n i n 1 1- r p r e t e r around. 

QUF.RV Okay, what kind of iKreenents have btt-n 

readied - or let me start tua t ap, a 1 n . What kind o f .s c i e nc t i f i c 
experiments do you iwve in the back ot your mind fcr - for 
the misJsion, eillier to be conduct ed jolnlly or by our side, 

LU N ;i Y P 3 r t i c u - we have a b o u t t e n , a n d p e r h .i p s 

a few more will be added, experiments Diat we have planned 
that would be called unilateral, in the sense tl»at they 
would be dene on our side without any participation, Ve have 
five experiments which are considered to be - 


Tint!: l-iiOJ CST 
1 1 / 1 'i / / ) 

our 8 liitj w I tliout any 
wiiicli arc considered 
have .1 plan to use a 
"luBS 1 an s 1 dc wlien we 
ilie dockinp, module a 

• in tlia 'm-nse lliit iticy w iuld be done by 
par t Ic i [lat ion . We Uivu fiv»i fxporinentK ^ 
to be Joint. 1-et no sue we have ! ! 

cartridge or a sample provided by tiifc 
operate the furnace . Wf are flying it. 
furiacf similar but Uiigraded fro« * 
inprove<l from the one that we are flying Skylab for further 
space proceaainp,. Ue have - tivat's one - we have a UV - naw, 
that's to complicated of a nane , \ie have a syaten for 
-sendlnp a slj-nal to the Soyus and getting it back In 
measuring the atomic oxyp.en and nitronen in the upper atmosphere 
in order to understand the rt^acticn of the Sun in tne upper 
atmosphere and how all that works in the physics of the upper 
atmosphere. Tliat's a joint experiment in the sens^' that it 
requires two spact-c r at t . We have tue possibility o f occul t I nj; 
the Sun with one of tha spacec r a f t i n th is cas e the Apollo 
and - and taking pictures of the corona of the Sun with - I 
say pictures with various ncann i n>5 dev 1 1: ea on the Sqyuz 
hpacecrafl. ',/e have two medical ex pe r I m- .t t a one I s f f eel I vc i / 
a study of how the men react when ue - we meet people in 
space, meet them with difterent cnvlronnent* i n b r I n;i th u 
two spacecraft tov.L'tlicr, et c e t e r a . Tli e r c ' 1 1 b e 3Wab 8 
ot cetera, in order to b e t t e r und e r s tand th a C phenonenon. 
There will also be some samples f lown up probably in each - 
In both ships and exchanf,«id In some way, that is not yet worked 
out and then they will bro - be broup.hi bjck down. The 
purpose belnp. to .see what the difference in time exposure in 
space and perhaps the different environment would be to t'ne sane 
kind of orsanisms flown on both ships. There are about 10 - 
10 or so experiments tliat we would conduct you know unilaterally 
urn, 4 or 5 of them fall under the sc i ont 1 f Ic acanni ng 
kind of experiments lookinp, in various frequency radiation 
spectrums outside that is at tlie - away from the e/.»rth. Ve 
have lli;ht flash exp e r i me n t s , s omewha t similar to the ones 
we have flown on i li e 1 a t t c r Ap o 1 1 o flights. We have an eletlro- 
phoreslt experiment, which Is intended to iiee what kind of 
inprovemvnts one can p.ain in the purity of h e pa r a i t njt v .ic i 1 n. 
et cetera, in space similar if.aln t o fJone of ilie ex pe r i men l s 
that vere conducted on Apollo. We have some K a r I h ob s e r v a t 1 on a 
plans an' one or two more tnal I'm not able to r^icall. 

qUKRY Okay, last one, iiavc- the duties of the 

dockin'. module pilot been defined, and if so what are they? . 

1.UNNKY i li.iven't been tlirou)'.h s p ec 1 f i c d u t i es 

of each one of the pilots, 1 suspect that they will be similar 
to tlie duties that the seat has in terms of the 
life tiupport and electrical systems in the command sp - 
command service module. I think the duties would involve i 
probably bein'-, the specialist, if there Is one of the whole 

Tine: 15:03 

gvoup on tlio eystens of tlu* dockinf, nodu I e . I t h Ink we ' r e 
gonna find that the dockln;i nodule is »inple enou-.h that 
all three guys will be • as conversaiu v\t\\ it as any of 

PAO . Lou le? 

QUERY Glynn, has the docuner.t been alRnfcd yet 

on press relations tliat you said oxpucitjd to be 8lgn<?d in 
Oc tober ? 

LUJI.n-Y Yes. But - I shouldn't 8.»y yes. Yt-s, 

but we are still waiting to radlfy th^t, wltli It bej:v; an 
Important enou,',h docunenl tiiAt we w.iuted the leaders of both 
NASA .jnd iho Academy of Sciences to radify. That is still In 
process , Louie. 

QUERY In ti>al i:ase can you tell us detinitftly 

that sone of theje thtn.v»8 ate In, such as an American 
cor respondant vlewin<', some of the training in tbe Russian 

LU.NNKY Well, I can't say that for sure. But the 

indication is tliit - there is sone correspondants are Rolnfj to 
Star City today. They did? We 1 1 , 1 n e f f ec t I think you're 
seeln)'. what's written on paper happen. 

QUKRY Are you sntlsflcd vlth those? Do we - 

the nusslans - there was a lot of wordMU-ss when thi5 carae 
up in July , and it was conci-rned with - - 
LUNNEY Or - on ay par i ? 

Nc , no. (Lauf.uier). Especially on the 
And they were hav l n«, t r oub le v i sua 1 1 z ing wh<- ther 
they would be ex t t'n^l i np. tie same coverage to our 
cor respondants as we did to theirs. And ^re you saiiffici or 
how do you f ee 1 abou t tha t ? 

SPEAKP:^ We 1 1 , r guess my feelinp, isi mat it has 

8one reasonable well. You know there a r e d l f f »■ r t- nc e In the 
two systens and - and 1 must say that some of the press 
conferences that we've had have been farily exdtin?, sone^ 
times, to watch you fellows in action but you know I tnink 
all of thir'.- gradually beinc understood - in - on feoih sides 
and I tUink - you know we h a ve some t h i ng to understand too 
about tbu way business is done there. And - - 

other side, 
or not that 


ASTP PC 41/1 

yjMt: 15;03 
• 1/J9/73 


w .1 ,1 r. I 

SPEAKER ; you've coverol , 

"iii concerned vl i h r»?^ ' ^^"^ or, a sern^r ^ *xerc 

"'-'''t ye.,r. our d ^ "'salon ph . s . ? '^'^c ""*^nt . 

'^'lole appect and thr-u ^ *^ *''<trecjflv ln» °f where 

^" the subjects we^:a^:^^^^^"^>' «"ov a'a a r^r^' 

PAo ^"^ve discussed thus fa, ' ^^operation 

Q^''^-HV .^'^t « Ret Abbv Bret ; . 

some of the A-Tn , "° V"" have ""^^''^ here - „k^ 

those Pl.ins a n^"/''" «^ i"t a that „ . 

LU.V.V-EV iittlo bit? ""V - c,,n you «a 

"'""'^ there i , ^ , ' ^ •^"-w t h n u«h ' u? , >' / ' th,-.c 
/tself i„ ., \ -'^^ couple of WM.ks ' VI,,.., w.,s 

th.)L VP „r« (, ^ 'or lh( K... ^'^'^w oi t 

o;;.?„^ - ."r:./;-^- ' "i.. . 

, , . ^^^R^' jr explore the snK? JTobablv - 


Time- 15:03CST . 

11/19/71 . 

OUEnY You lalked about - you confua.J me, - 

you aaUl that you were talking about U9 on the P« ,f ^^^'l/^ 
Jo flow for r«Hcue vehicle. Will that not become the ASTP 
boofft launch? , 

lUJINEY 209 or 210? 

OUERY The one that's In the flow foi rescue. 

LUMNEY Yes. I think we're Bolng to use another 

one and' use - the 209 will st.iy with the 119 spacecratt. 
■ AS I remember tl>e aeaUnment. that's tne way It Is. 

SuERY Ok.y. 1 got a different .^^P^^- . °» , 

Kathy on that. I i;<««8« '^"^I'^K '''"^ ' last b r l<" f in^a . 

LUNSEY I haven't looked at In a while. 

I may be wron?,, It may be 209 we're gol:ig to use. but I 

I houKh I 1 1 was 2 10. „rh »r 

OUfRY Just hold on a oilnute her^. The other 

thing U do you know yet what the of the Soviet 

J' pSt win be and will they be docked for two days? What 

is heir len.^th? And refresh ne on ours la ours 6 days. I. taat 

LUNNEY The s pac e c r a f t tha t they have Is 

de«lpned to fly - I shouldn't say deslp.nad. 1 should say 
, v^^loned to'fly up for u, to 6 days ^J/^Jf-f Jj^^^ 
t<,ev would expect to fly 5. They would like to havv he 
dav's reserve as anyone would In the systens when the; 
cone^down. Ours In en.ulpted with 2 sets of cryogenic tanks 
which noTilnally. *.nd by that 1 mean at moderate power 
live s enable you to fly about 12 days. You know, you 
cou i ^ower down and stretcn It out. b u t I ' « t a Ik I n, abo.c 
the H-claas spacecraft we flew to the moon. It's probable 
though that we win find that the experiment comp.en>en^ 
that we art carrying will require power usaRe which will 
u ^up the cryogenics and shorten that ^ J ^ « ^ ^ ^^d / on t h e 
that I can't tell you yet for sure, but It would be on the 

order orprobahly lO^days. yo'u^tllked a lot about documentation. 
,nd It was my Inpresslon that at least before this joint 
ne't J/Jhnt the Russians have been a little reluctant to 

nto al specific detail about all their systems with you. 
Ts \Lt true, and if so. is that still the cane? 

w.y. We' have emphasized, and I th i nk r I gh t f u 1 1 y so 

understanding and docunv-ntin. the kinds of thln,s wh ch 

ve have to nake conpatlble. that ^ • " ^"^^ ' ' 

wc would be using - the docking; systens. radio 

etc. And we've had just - we've just have not »'^>i^"y 

d f iculty in doing that. Ue have had relatively lit le Ine 

to proceed past that point, until recently when we got into 

Tine: l5s03CST 

tli« safety assesttnent reports and other subjecta like that, 
past that point to a more general underatandlnR of the 
spacecraft. We have Introduced those aubjecta ai.d we fouad 
in one case that the work weiu a little bit nor e s lowly than^^ -^ 
we would like. But in all fairness tivat could Jii^t aa, aa$lly^^^^ 
be, you know, lack of the other fellow fully undo rs t a nd i nfj 
what It la we would mean by a certain thlnp,. as I'n sure you have 
uUtlculty under standing what we mean by things some lines. 
Ue liave though weds clear In tue one particular case th.jt we 
had, and indeed we were promised taat the Infornalion would 
be coninR and we would expect to exchange tha t in Decenber ai 
be able to aiRn it in March tn that safety assessment report 
So I think an uuch as anythloR we have been loaralna to con- 
nunlcate what tt is we mean by something with each other. And 
I Bu«S3 I'n foirly optltnlstic and encouraRed that's going 
reasonably well. We have every indication and every evidence pf 
cooperation when we decide that a document needs lo written 
on a subject wh t ch pe r t a I ns to the safety of the fll»ht. And 
we have had tine to discuss it and explain It and go over 
what we think ought to be in it and listen to what the 
members of the Soviet tean think that ought to oc in it. And 
when we have t Ine to do that, indeed we find that w« get what 
we want and on their side I think they what they want. 
At tines we have to add sonethinp and we choose to. .»:.d as 
I say w'aen we have time to develop tite thene and naKe clear 
what is wanted froa our aide, then the information I s f o r i he om i nt? 
And I think we'd do the same. 

'^^f^^Y it technically possibly. .1 lul separately 

is there any chance, of e I t h e r nod i f i nn or repU<inj. In particular 
adding to the lldt ol Joint sr i en i t f ic expe r i me n l b ? 

LUNNKY Ti;e Joint experlmcnls? i t li i nk t h r r e 

is. a better chance that we could add to the exi.erLnents ii»ai 
we raifht conduct ~ that is, add unllaterlal t xj< e r i nen t s . Th e 
proj-r m i>rob lem at this time is that we are becoming, constrained 
by noney and schedule and weight, and by schedule 1 mean tlie 
tine to develop these instruments. It is possible tiiat some 


Tine: 15;03 CST 

lUMNFY - - in walr.hl, \n tho tlm - by schedule I 

mean I'he tine thai devel - developad these i n. t r uuien t s . I c 

pooalble that some relatively simple axperlnents could con.e 
alono that would not require a great deal of developrient tine 
or great deal of money or weich a lot and we could add those 
to the mission. As far as the Joint experlnents go. I 
to aay that I think It's fairly unlUely that we would add any 
new Joint exper l»ent» . We have - really kind of have our hands 
full and w'.rking on the ones that we have because it s a tine 
consuming process to - to develop hardware and mak« il «orK on 
both side of the Atlantic Ocean. And I would say to you that 
out of the prospect for adding Jol;>t onus - a new Joint 
experiments beyond the five we've Identified, Is not - is not 
brlzht and I don' t think that we would do that , 

QUERY Is - is the major factor if you - assuning 

you had a cheap 1 1 ish t we I ?.h t and simple experiment proponed I.' 
Ihe major factor Just the time of uegot i a t Ing or //orki ng i r. out? 

LUNNEY There is that althcugh 1 Ruesa In ny 

experience we hardly have the cheap lightweight ''i'-eady 
developed one (laughter) that we can ^ 1; • J . 
do it tends to be - it tends to be a a c 1 f cont ai ned one that - 
that you know it's not something tnat le.^ds itse f Co Join 
experinent. You know, we were looking for exp^rlnents that 
really require th.x participation of two parties or two cpace- 
craft and we've f^und th».t In some caa^s. In general most 
of the emphasis th.vt people have put on deve) oping experiments 
has been on veil. 1 1 me go build a package to d o some th i ng 
and it tends to be i somewhat se 1 f c on t a Ined thing and it was 
for that reason I gave you the first answer. 1 did - you know 
If you cone across for example, another e 1 ec t r o- phot e s i s ^ 
experinent that's developed by someone else that looks promising 
It tends to be a unilateral one that we would - ^hal we 
would not have co negotiate the fly. If we found it in a 
position to fly It. w. cc^^ make our own decision and get on 

QUERY llov large 19 the launch window for the 

Soviet Union and have you looked into their on-time record for 

previous launches at all? ' , .i 

LUNNEY I don't know If 1 - If I renenber the 

exact number Art. The problem with the launch window Ifi that^ 
we've had to select times of day that satlslfled tne contraincs 

both the Soyui and the Apollo cpacecraft. And you know 
If you Start moving the launch of the first one. you re moving 
everything along with it. I expected - I expect that s on 
the order of a half hour . an hour but 1 - I'm not - l don t 
really remember -hat nuab.r 1 think it's on that order. What 
was the second part? 

Tl«e: J.5:03 CST 

,,cept that they have conducted a J^-^*/ °^ .^^^ - have 
lauachad tHe second vehicle pretty 

you have a nefl«age for me7 ^ ^^^^ Uanch«« 

QUtRY No. it a J" :- _ j^^^e la no report 

CO now? ^ J reaction to that is that 

. d a nu.i^r of successful rendezvous «l«.lons 
they've conducted a nu«bcr ot . ^i^ey seen 

which required the on ' ^'^ ' J/v^ ^ „d of window that th«y 
entirely ,.ep3r,d to ^^""^ / n be able to do that, 

vlll have. SO I expec ^^^^ \ ^J;:^ , \ ^ t u a 11 y looked at it? 

hov . what you nean looW at It? j,^,^,.^.^ «ald U- 1 us 

QUERY i "l';,^a nwe to know your planned 

Hu^rd^airrndMr^nrwren you actually launch that sort 

'^t'j'sNEY No. 1 haven't done thai, 

QUERY Okay . , „ , , w . , vou wou 1 d us u a 

QUERY I understood i,ercenta,.c of ^as 

different atmosphere in P^*-"*-^"^^; ^ you will not hav. 

in the inside atmosph.-re. So at •^•»y 

any con„on or ^^^^^ [iLil.r at.ospher. betv.en 

LUNNEY 1 ^, ^?•a^t end Sovuz. the Soyuz 

the docWins module and ^ ; , u . - is li'.e an 

spacecraft, okay. Tae ^.^^ ,^pollo into it and 

,^lock in tnat Z-^:" ^ ' i n prUsurize it up to 
close the hatch ^eh nd -e ..y^^wi ^^P^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ 

10 psis, aud at tnai t inv 
the Soyu z 



anU or actually ^l..l«8 h^ t aJaflrih^r ''"'^P'-f pUunln^ 
«haU I call thtim a • i kLi i would k««p , 

I'ad foreigner* in ihe «r on« ^^^^r . . " Po««Mr« whttre ve 

Ajono. w would Kale'^t \'*j::.J^,,^?*-*/"/««rU.. u U,« 

ihftl't* purely a safety ^..j TkiJd 

vlBw on that. So • ^' «oi»»on ««n8« kind of 

-pace ship do w« not? ' capability i„ ..^f,^^ 


Of tw» people in the Soyur.nd 'tar al! capabiUt, of.' you know. 
Anythlne .ore than tl,!t'u y'^LL'^'fi' ^^^^'^^O- 
V. have a« Anerlcau^nU a RussU^ n.^ S*'*^' * 

two Americans in th. ApoIti aL ^''^ J'"*! « Russian 
step, necessary to protect ^'»<i^^« «re taking «U the de«lj»n 

•i«»^t «et .tuck' tXj:!''p^/:;!"; i»'>««*biutrth*t th.y 

failure that you could iL in Of th.. modts of ' 

that conditio^ woSn be ?|*e\":,!r' -^^<^^ V^^ple \n 

w. are usin« th« forward lie 7"'' ''^ And 

•odule. And one of the t ^ 'r.! r ' " v''"^^^ ^" do«klnV 

outside, you can take « lit U t^ol Ld "f' «''Ound on tl.« 

•^Pirl ao that if tho eeara u the tiiinp, 

-rk. you can take ^.r^Jch ]%rwiJr"^;V"^ 

hands. And we're dolnc ti,« a! '^P^* \ it will tall out in voar 

^actly the 8a«e thin«! s; It^! ^'^^"^^"^ » «houU «ay. 

t at ,ould cau^e you h!ve "^p r^U'r?:':/^ « ^-ig. pr«bU« 

craft, as coBpareJ to their oraln ^ k , ' "rung space- 

of stepa to precluue th,t fro«^i ' ^^l^*" tho.t- kind 

put the^hatch back tog ^ :he J :Too ' ^ ^'^^ ^ 

tl'en we'll wrap thls^uo ^^"^^ I^^^Uon from Arthur Hill. 

little bit about their track^L * ' " ^-^H u« a 

many station, and whore do ^^eJ "•'^^ork. do they h.vo very 
what? "v^" ^^"^y appear to be vjslnr. ahipa or 

use - they had a . ' ^'^ too specific on that, ch^y 



Tine: 15:03 CST 

.it Vf i^Ho'^^ , , ■■ - network, do tiiey have very laanv 

stMlona and whoro are t,.oy. and where do they aJLar n K 
usln", ships, or what? i-MKy appear to b 

u«c - they had a vou ki^w' «Pecific on that they 

wMch IS ^ust^ne^::„ - iT-^^'-ur r'w'^vr 

various places, aroond Z'lorVa 'did'n' '''^l'-''--' «^ 

P.iy much attention to vh e r e 1 1 « y we c S o \ f ^ .'''"''^ 
of conmunlcatlons svater, - or kLT r ^^^^^'b the kind 

■^Uo told here for y^^rinf^rj n^^n^^:!: tnl ^ l ^ 
to escort anybody over to Bull.Hn« ii t "^^^ ftla<l 

In the process of conducting ^eSn ' ^ V"^ '""^''"^ " ^ ^ ^ ^ 
at elevated temper at ur as - hi , ^ " 

Thank you. 


P*^*^ Arthur Hi 11 . ' - - . - , 

,n8we?"''''ilhat h... ^ ''r''/^'' ''^y"" °^ ^^"^ whoever can 

inswer. What have you heard from the Russians with rocir-U f r. 
crews perjons might be and I wonder If Vance c.nexpafrw^. 

^^.l^L. not n.i^d J:/^h%".!j;h:!-^e^iir-r:; 

that about two years be f ore the f n » » u„ 7 a^rLe 

sonnel «n^i,.^«L :\ ^ ' operational per- 
to ; . probably need 

M r; ^'^^ In order to help those people together to TsiL. 

. es :vMn'order?"""'%'''°"''^''^^ ^^^^ 

necessary In order to conduct a good and a safe flight. We do 
for h%%'MUh: ^"f'^^^io'^ Of who the cosmonautfn ght be 

will nlll! ^ yo.r they 

^1 oast ^"•^ backup sense like we do 

A3 least as a group of candidatds. Vante 

to I.rTruorked wlrh'^f^; V ^'^^ question, f ron. 1964 

r people from the German Governnent In 

^'^•^ Bill Cromif. 

STAFFORD We U » I've been to Star City and flown in th.^ir 

An nitial training really can be termed feally i ndor t r i i i on 
faraliari^ation beeau.e a, of today, in the ru»«er wo wU no 
have any «.ckup« or detailed procedure, but we can discu«.. sv u-m^ 
in the san.. way that when the American asironviut. that .,re .,v.Mlable 
10 go over to Star City iate this fall. The re«l «oiniE tJ ' ' "^'^ ^ 

vc-ar. But tht-ir nl.^slun ^iaulator was sotn«^what «:mi3,ir l ,.,,,-4. 
H,is a tiiglial coffipuler that drives it, i ns t ru ■ t c r ' trr,^Jt> 
•i-d it'^ .% high fidelity mockup i n «i I nu 1 a t » t . ' 

2'''^'^'' questions for Dcke. ?ii.tabv'r hov is 

vour Russi^nj and nucber two. wh;»l doc* (h^ docUng Pi.uiui,. ,,i]ut 

^[''^'*' WeUt lumber I, ray Russia,, isn't v»-. r v gvod. 
. studied a little bit throufth t h summer when ha^i iht- <''fAi 
f i«;w workii;*' il. I guess l got or M) lis-Mrs K.-t * t'-''' y'r 
based on that brief esperienee, 1 nt'cd ,-,h.n.i ten uinc« £ h * h 
to net very proficient. I don't speak vi*ry good tngUnh to h.= ^:in 
with. And secondly, the functions of the dock I module Pilot 
since this u the first t i tee there's been one, I guess 1 fjnd " 
it a little difficult to describe, and we cduld .lay you .Had 
yont choiru- between being the H^c coe3..,nder in ihr wanned «p.,ce 
rUj^.H or the first docking «iodul« pilot, I gutvs « l • d », a vt^ a 

nri^tnT-,!^ 'VI T"; /"^ ^ ir you find . job that', 

prinaruy „,oci«ted with the fly'<t«^^'* th. dotkidg Mdul.^ 
v>r.jnft^nt«^^conir«l^syjiten» 'p/irt of^ 1 1 and ^h_e JL^j^ - ^. 

APOLLO SOYUZ TEST PROJECT . , ^^^^ , ^ h and 1 e a 11 ' , 

. ',H«r with all the details ° ^ 1^^; „ , , 'and certainly be 

familiar will . .hat might possibly occui, : the ■ ' 

tue '"'systems, sort of in ^^^^^/^^"^^"/ly i will also 

U.e expert on ' the lunar P^^^^'-""- ^/'^dull as we've 

ivinnr module ^° Tl i t ies on the -""'"f J .^J" res pons lb Ic for- 

have systems rcspon«ibli ^^^^^^^ ^.^ probably b. P 

*^"'^^%^:i't transfer between two visits. 

\^:^]^\ have to defe. to To. on h . 
Vf'Z'. been Itudjfn, ^b is who 1 e p r . c t ^ f o r our^ ^^^^^ 
subject. t « j^^.^ „„,-e familiar 

lor tne la«t y^ar. ^^^^^^^ 

av> there. u.ii as ovitlin>»d. we ° up'il Start 

cTMfPORD Well, as* " one docking we n =• 

< test ti^« total system. ^I'^^l^ crtd we're proposing 

docklnfe« to '■ j"* 'a activities and at ui<- cno aoc\iir,R8 
vlth for the two ^^^^^^^^ worked out . The ^^-j^*^- , j th. three 
tV,e details »^ ' ^ ^ i one d th « t everyone '^^^^^.^ U'i> 

rtt that tltae ^ oppot tunt ty r o do it, ^^-J^^ , test 

erewr.e«ber« «<'"l'*^*'f !,^t project ^nd you have ^^[[^{1 

Piioift. vou i^"'-^^' ' test the total ^yf^**"' ^.her iten^- 

' nor. th,>.. .«v. J"»< » "j;',', ,t „„<>, «untrl.-. 

/ °U»o t.n. world "^'.-'ri. ...-" rr 

, I'V ROl «1' ^ 

to command j.vr> Hlgh^ thor n , vv <n,« 1 y . « 

" i\ nf, to whfli be.^eCU f?i«iu ^h*«d 


ua here; we've got a long ways to go to get ready for it. 
We've got some of the best gcye you can imagine to work with 
h«re, and we've got somenore of them Juot like It across thu 
parking lot that are going to be working with us on this 
flight that's going to be outstanding as far as I'm concerned. 
Butl guess based on past experience, I'ra not going to display 
Any raucous enthusiasm until I hear somebody tell us that vc'ru 
go for the first orbit. And at that time I'll probably express 
aysc 1 f . 

QUERY A couple of questions for whoever. Are 

the coamonauta going to learn English and then, you know, if , 
they do learn English and you learn your Russian, who is going 
to talk In what language? And then secondly, beside just 
rehfearslng docking, what are you going to do in togetherness 
In the space craft? 

STAFFORD V.'*ll, I've worked on nos t o f these 

negotiation*, Mary. ihe basic area we've worked on the 
premia*; today is that each country could speak in 1 ta own 
language, but the crevctndf the other country would have to 
urtfie rs rand . Now we are corap i 1 i ng a aeries of special terms 
for thi* mission, but it's just too early to have those put 
together. As far as the Jcint <ic 1 1 vi 1 1 es , we ' ve agr e ed that 
when we're in the Soyut we'll eat their food and vise versa. 
In (act, we'll even use thiilr hygiene facilities. 

gUKRY I rejliy don't know what you'r«j going to 


Stafford There's a whole series of experiments that 

.irt' being pifoposed both by the Soviets and ourse Ives , and these 
are being in a review status right now, and It's just too early 
to tell exactly what those will he. 

QUKRV (Inaudible) any one thing or a general 

thing you think ybu'rc going to do? 

STAFFORD Well the project manager had a list of 

twenty five - 

LUNHEY Yes, we're In a process of reviewing it 

vr iB set of candidaici experiments that we night t.ike on the 
fjight, and we really have .lot made any decision or really 
any narrowing down of large lists. The Soviets wUl also 
have some ideas that will discuss in March. And wi- prababiy 
von't have a ouch - wc can't say very much to you that is 
'(.iSnitlvc until we have those kind of d i scus s i ens , both to 
finish our consideration of ours and then finish up our *H s - 
jssions with the Ruts;, i-ns in March. So it'n still going to 
t a couple of nonlhs for uf» to pin that down. 

QIIERV Toffi just said that each crewtsijmber will 

t.jivt> a chance at docking. DotS U isean that will dock and 
iniock repeatedly? And the other pan» after the joint nisftli'n 
is over I understand you intend to stay up for n while. What 

STAFFORD Well, on the first question, to coBpletely 

test our ayaieift for the active, paasivc. and th« backup relea«t» 
f," chan Ism that we have, requires* a aeries of dockings i and if 

APOLLO SOYUZ TEST PROJECT' ' ' ' ' " I t, ' ' / 

the consumables are available aud the mission timelines can 
bf worked out, we're proposing a series of these. This has 
to be finalized yet in our negotiations. Now. as far as the 
total length of the mission, ve are proposing - right now we 
have a baseline of six days, but we can extend it to twelve 
and the difference would be the experiments. And these Just 
haven't been defined yet. 

J"^'^^ How many transfers are you planning? Does 

everybody g.'t a chance to go on to the other persons? 

''^^^'^^ Let me say sonething about it no. The 

reason that we planned to do three because that Was the best 
wo could lit into this tloiellne. But in our last Set of dls- 
cuaalons, the Soviets proposed and agreed that they would 
operate their ship at a lower pressure. And that allowed us 
to save two {.ours out of every transfer, which now enables 
us to h.ive a total of fo-jr round trip i r ans f e r s , wh i ch r ea 11 y 
gives ..very man flying an opportunity to visit in the other 

Q'-v^-RY Two questions, one for Tom. Tote, you'rtJ! 

a real believer in Skylab. and don't you regret beirtg t ra.-^ s f e r red ? 

STAFFORD Sure I'm a believer in Skylab, but I have 

,\o rogrtts as far as having being assigned to this aission 
believe ne. And, bin. I think I'll have beeiv f<>riun.ite to' 
be Pckf'fj deputy to turnish support - administrative support 
<)» Skylab. ^ 

^^''if'"^' Question for Deke. Is this the first - 

well, wait a remuie, outside of the crew and the .istronn<it 
LWflcc yo.i out rank Torn. How do you feel about taking orders 

{ raw h i » ? 

SLAVrON I sec absolutely no problem with that at 

alt. t think there '^ a lot of precedence in the country on 
this particular subject. Anytime you have a guy flving an 
atrplanb In the mila.iry service, he's a second i i e'u lenan t 
.itui you sol the highest general in the Air Forte. the cHiTiTnaruii; r 
is ti « tarjfflander. And there's no doubt in ihin lllghi wim's 
goinR i\? be the corcnander. It 'A Torfi Stafford. .Now vh<jn we're 
on tlu- gio«:uti working the other prografts and other probicw;*«, 

th.Mi .:vhvj v-ius ly , we've got a normal and working n- 1 i» 1 1 o«*h i p . 
BvH ! -stM- absolutely no problem* at all and I'ro r^'s pons 1 b lo 1 1> 
fan to bt! ri-ady to fly this flight and he's respnnsihU' to nc 
(0 ^t..i- ! vrew'-s rcfidy to go. ( l.nigh t C r ) 

A (Question for Deke, and a -Iflicnc- ofu- . 
irkc, cnvjiJ yo*i .iddfcss youmcH (noise) do ynu f>}vl u k «■ 
V. A. .ittic making a comeback? 

J-IAVT!):< W\>11, no. I've always been a si?>w i a r t »■ r , 

: For fiMne peep I*-' Hfe ftt.nrts at 40 Htui for rr.f it'» 

i^fitiK t0 be more* like ^O, but I Kuess I'd rathi*r he ,i ^^(.i vv:\t 
rookio tlian .i 50 yovir old hasbeen. That's one ,My to put 
:t. iio.?ifin*i boiht»r me at alK 1 'w in a« good physscU sh,i|u^ 
,in ,ih(Mit ri!vvbody yo\i can find around here and I intend t Ht,n' 
! f. .1 f v,ty . 

i^HAMf) Catch htm ruiininfi, around tlir tr<iCK tii 

th»' liftt' ovt't hvre at the gya. 


_ - ^ - .» ► !i r • 

.ho orLginal news '^'^ ^^.^tl 1 " e P^^" 1 ca ! eL.s you went 

described in some ^^i'^*^^'^^ /^^f,^ ^ i^,' a^50 year old was never 
through -t^^^%^^"^/';i,'lHanR0d in the space fUghc program 
oven conBldercd. '^/^^"^^^^ „ake It without problems? 

that now a fifty y-"*; ,»^'^,^„^any thing " « changed all that 

V It Saa eief atl that big a deal to b.gin 
Buch. I don't think It was quantity in those days 

.,th. except ^^^-.^-^^t/^o^^niuh^Ho p^ove that it really 

and I think we had to tiy ^""^ ° correct oe, but In ny 

Wasn't. But 1 think these guys^can correct P^.^^ 

opinion the biggest physical "^^^^^"^J^,,, operations. if. 
has been associated with the^lunarflurtP^^^^^ 

certainly not launch and ^^^^"^^ " .J^', ^ he re in the future 
deal here. We're ^ « ^ ^"^fir t o ^00^ 1 ve rybody up th.n as 
that ve anticipate being f i^^^^/^^^ily woul Jn " t expec t lo 
a standard passenger ^""^ .'J^J^^'yl^ds of physical exams to 
run everybody through a full nine V^"" ^ 3 7^7 frot* here 

nore'than you would to /consider the physical 

to Tokyo or iioTbe pl.^ce I don 
part boinp. all tnat /J^^ 

t .V no you have any -^^--^Lryli'^ay 

during the whole program nda.^ ho .^^^ ^ television 

Ll'NNEY W« a^a^pcraft aft are the Soviets. And 

caaera, o! course. In „ urcabU *uch that our 

we'v. ai«o made ^'^^^"^^f "^*^,^*^a in the Soyur and then rcnoted 
television cameta ^ «" ^^/J!;?!;; . so on the ground . ineftect 

n .> r i ci d 3 of t i re t' . 

^ PAO "-^'^ Cra^or. ,,,, 

,...ttn .bout Whether - ^ /^:::::r.nd vice vers.. H«v. 
wsn be in Ihc ^ ^ V " , v re8olv.uU 

you any word on how that wtii ^ ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^ , 

^ LUNSEY V''' M thoMtuation i« th<^l ve *rc^ 

<,«.ion of U th.t r've read. J^*]^,^ .^.J.^,, ,,.Uy how .e 
,«rly in the gai«c of li«t!^« lood understanding between 

would best establish and p^ofrAs* that H i« 

con roi centern. «*■ have ^""^n on tSe ground in the 
^aUy Vital that the ^f-^'^^^'l^^ . te been looking t«t 
rtir. understand each ^^Jf Jstanding between the two 
:i ; to establish ^^^'^^^/"J.^ld ;?opo 'd i.v th4t we ^av. a^ 
:,,ntrol center*, and one control center who would 

smAll staff of peopl*" " where you could bring the 

f,ravaUable for <^«"«"i^«'^r:„«e h L ih*t »^l«Ht be going 
r.Uow and lAlk to ht« the technl<iuV that we sovuz test project' ^' i ' : - 

QUERY ^ , aheao, Wally. 

i' ; is there anv ^„ Suess this Ig f,,^ 

>■ - RrZtl/"r '° "^^""'^ that Yo I "r""'^ Stafford. 

PAO . dl^ricult enouRh ' fLaugfuer) 

QUERY Croaie. » ' 

SLAYION * " flight 1, „"j;"' " f»r as 

')"tc« tha^ ^;'vb"j/ kno-'n about »i 

QUERY varre 1 Mack . 

this fllRht. You'vl^^K consider yourself « 

I »^ean | don't aJ^ ^^'^'^'^ around so lonT i i . ^^o^i^ 
SLAYToS • <^on.Ider yourseH J^j/ '""^ " 

QUERY Jl*""** 
»f> tiofns rril,/ cy«tPBj Una tradltl«n« L . ' 

* ' ' " t i Vc* t o f 14 1 * i.i < '"^i^ions. i»0 what t>o 
»»^iPP<ti th,.rr s ^ '^•'^^'y can't predict r "'""'^ '■^'•''Jly 

J i « I.- US s 1 on "I'Ptner or not now th^t , 

■«nv .ion;?J.^'."'^P^^^tive «ff«ri,, vh,u,! r "'^ ^" thU 

0 for t ^ c^P^JtlUy ,o r.«<Mu. «oLone 

IS th<! btjdro^fc M..t '"ture pi:innpd cnc>i)(>r ai i u« . 


What this will lead to In the future,' I think really renains 
' to be seen. : For my pact, lUhink it depends on the auccefls ■ , 

that we have on this project. Si So our attitude is to keep our 
' eyes focused on the work that we have to do to make this 
succeed while continuing the longer term negotiations the 
designs of systems to be compatible in the future. 1 think 
: the future will then take car c of i t » el f . 

QyERY There's one point on Mary's question, 1 , 

think one thing that the Soviets probably could not comprehend 
is one of those launch day hats she we a r s . ( Laugh t e r ) 
' PAG Abby Bret t . 

QUERY Could you go into a little more detail 
about the major training you will have this summer and fall, 
and the for Vance Brand and for Tom Stafford, how much Russian 
have you had? ^ 

STAFFORD Veil, again, we'll use the word famiiiar- 

tzation because, Abby, we don't have ; the time-line finalized 
or our checklial. so you can't really have quote Joint 
training". We will have a f aol 1 i a r i za t ion for them, you know, 
for syatems descriptions of our docking module and to ^oo*- 
at some of the systems in the command module - Jus i baal caily 
instruction and show how we operate over her^, so it j mure 
familiarization In the same, so it's really not training for 
u«. as Such as It Is, you know for theto. The same way Id 
true when the astronauts that are available to go to the 
Soviet Union late th is f al 1 . Bu t a f t e r then , as late as 19^-^. 
It will be a real quote "Joint trAinlng" as we have the com- 
plete checklis t , the compAe tc aockupa and we can go ihr°"f'; 
a complete sequence. And a« far aa Rusaian. we had a familiar- 
ization course that we sooewherc between ^0 and 50 hours. 

gRANO Abby, I've had 30 lessons on the side, 

sort of as a hobby in the last few mbnthfl . 1 Know I used 

to speak a little bit of Ger«.in. My wife's quite good at 
F rench , 

PAD Nick Chrisa. 

Qy^RV Glynn, do you have any idea how naiy 

cosmonauts wlU be coming ov^/r this auroKer. and about now 

long they will remain here? , , . 

l^yX'iFV Right now we are in the process oJ i. tying 

out. that IS the men torn Stafford's and Ufke's directorate 
to plan their training. They're laying out a dotal led daily 
plan and for the exercises we would go through ih»s sur>«cf 
and we don't really have it laid out how Ions it wou U he. 
I antlripatc; though, that it would be on the order of a month 
Ir JerSaps . Httl. longer than that. And 1 ai«o to an.wer 
your question, don'f know how «any co.«.>nnut. would ^'>^^N -'i 
;« are expecting - w.'d have to expect a... plan for a nunher 
up to ten or So. Now. l can't tell you that there wouU be 
that many. There night be half that, 

PAO J Ay Ruasell . ■ . 

QtiERY For Glynn, (ilynn. an earth orbital tsissiou 

is n.Uhing new, and we've flown Several of tbea. a« have tne 
SovlUa. And I would antUipat. over the "-J/i^Jiton /a" 
th.*rfr are going to be «o«e yeoplfe thai tag thti »l8«ion a» 

!r K^L/.^^fht^r aoace spectacular and a Jittl« Internation.. 

TIME. 15,03 CST 

■ . ■ t 

op«n«d the h4tch to go rto thf « that t Ue vh«n ih«y 

back Uto tho docking iiQdui*. , ^^""^ vhos they go 

that th« ApoUo l« In J" •«J«le dow« tv th« presaur. 

•t«osphT, of Apollo liJhJr in Jk^^ V i<l«"ttcal to the 

nltro^ien in th/alr. V" fhat there ypuM ^« a ut «f 

Q^^RY Their - 

fH^«r«nt. I think he po'^:??:!!?!'* ^""^ not looking ^o'*^ 

r«ct th-u they 1 n d eJt k i L'' ' ; ^^^^^^'-^ but 

do«8 not ufJect the de,i«r, !„' ! w ''i"'^ °' -itnoapheres 

Spvi,t Control Cante ' vhi?e" TxrciT'^ 

«t"Uav in structure Ind s e ^r^cJ located and is ,t 

to the MOCR? ^ to JSC or were you only referring 

about where it'« 1 ool^^d ' f 5* •pacific 

JO8C0W. aori of north of tcvn anH ! 1 outskirts of 

building that ifr;;'%:%,%\^ 1° -'^^ - it. . the 

of a Win,; whore the aain ope^atLnr P"*^*'. One I. svtt 

«one auxiliary rooas and e u p^^;^"' l^^'''^ is and 

w« have ovc-r here. Ther e • a an^t^I; f "^"^^^^ the conflauraM 

the equipment that ia us^d to ''^"^ "^^^^ « iot of * 

rest of the kind of 3ire eou? '"^^''^P'^ Intercon and tu[ 

And that a.ain U no^ l ^^HtJluurJ'^^^'i"" •X-.u/etc 
here in Houston. The .ain Con o Room . \' "'^"'^ 
Jlfferent, but on the other hand i f ? ' °" ''"O" . i t Uoks 
t'.ere ia a row ,,f consoles wlJ^ .^ f'/^"^^*'' ^^^t 
«^rean down front. An^ you kLi r"''^"" tube, and a large 
something being idenUcl/to ' to'rK " ^ ^"^''^ -^thoS! 

,^ould say. gee. that looks sintLr ^' ^k""^"^ ^''"'^'^ bere. you 
Houston. Or for tJ,at ^^Jjer si^M the Control Center here in 

that we have at G odd a rd ! ^ ^ '^ ' Control Cent.r 

PAO y „ ' 1 1 r L- 

QUERY i3 th«rl Bruce then. 


BrigadU. General Thomas I* . S.-tfo 
Vance D. 

ttrana. Co«,«*ad HoUmU Pilot, ftnU SSnilJ K SlaJt^n ute ' 

Uocklug HoduU Pilot. W«'U Hurt «tth ^oi/ uilJu^^oi Sr 
l.uu«ey. Thon oach on*, of the cr«w«en will I-v - . \ 

w<?'n ao to Q&A. Glynn. ««y « f«V wora* , ih*fo 

UR. lUNNEY Good »urning, laUtea and aanilttBett I'* 

v.ry pleased to he h«r« ihl* aprnxng. I think f -i rCer! 
»y«buuc. i„,««o, v«ry i«pori.„f that we • r/L thir.M,. of 

««r wurk in th. AppUo-Soy«« r««t Project fhc n«»ing of t!u 
cr«w ol cour.*, in always an sxcltlng li.a for u« in fue M^uiod 
Spac*.. business and i think especially in mi. protect and a? 

aciivny, n started, of course, about two ve«r& 

l?bUitrof"^''r ' y^' *^" ^^^'^ ^^^^'^ consider tu« pp.- 
itlvi fit ? . «Usion. to t«st ihe iechnlc,u«8 v*. would 

nave or uiur. rcndc^vou. and docking systens. And in the U*t 
yc4, considerable progres* ha« bo«n B«de both iniernaUy in t^^ 
o ':'ucrrn/:; f'*' -"^^ preparing th. hJ^dilrJ ' 

of the U^vel of detail that w« h«ve gone to. We hav^ «ovJd 
frcm fairly gent-ral dis^cussion about how things could ho done 
to n our aorlos of »..ting*, very, v.ry dot^ilod diH 

^»ni . ; K coB,plet«d the first testing th4t we h4v« 

.ondu^ted betwt-en th« two countries laat Bonth in the tpst^wR 
of the two-fifths .caie docking «,ochani««. And that w«i doL 
m Moscow. At Downey, CUUornla. ih« cunaand «*^r¥l.o nudule 
i« bc'ing prep«r..d for test, The docking Dodulc is o* prepar.>d 
.nd looked at ci.e co..pu.UMUs of th« docking sy.t.m. iL nT 
docking «y«ten that we will bo testing ih«t w. ' 11 be ,eMi, K 
' I^' « « n H,;on. S.,, i„ oeed. the progress i,. building 

another Reeting with the Soviet Delegation scheduled for March 

)''\''^^^'^'^\^P^'^-'^r.{t center. And I think we look.d 
lorward to tno work we nave lo do for the rest of the project 
and, again this worning I'm pleased to be here. At this* knid" 
of introduction it is iBvportfint and symbolic and I wuuld like 
oificially to offer ray vongr at ulat ions to the tnw. i think 
It ^ gwing to be a lot of iun working on lhl« project. 1 
know I'ra looking forward to It. Ton. 

STAFFORD Thank you. Olynn. WmH. it's always Kre.->i 

to he named to a crew, and for myself, it'll be good to set 
away from some oi the paper work for a whlK- and get back to 
simulation and training. However, that will be a ways down the 
ro.Hd. The. mission, the Apol 1 o-Soy u?. Test Project, U probably 
going to b„ oie of the difficult tiie nanned space flight tean 
has ever undertaken because it involves a differi-nt country 
a different language, different .^'^raiing Lechni4uea, and ' 

thing; f t iaif or '^^**^^\vot m^tn ^'^^^ 

p-«-:,/": J, tout 12 v.t^r./riit. -^^^ ^^'.1 


i-.ou v^" i l> ' . i secondly j, j \ .1.^'^' vt^ • " >■ 

I thin'. ^-7"^:;.;^ 

■ i» y A V ^ , » • 

I ao«'t UVM^'^ 

... 1 .'I Mi I. > ■■»■■■■...■■ 

'?ov 'n. noichor. and 

aaother eArth , trv to describe how 

this mis'io" our doU^jT ^f^^^or aur fu^^re sv^ace- 

it evolved. we yf^'^%pac« •nation*. .^oc1^^^| 

t»,*. Ten y**".;r lU^t. i« 'Effort iM** 

To» Stafford f f a%re**«dous effort ^„ 

tendt«vnu3 and «^ f^^,,. the techniques * a £cw 

Chi.* /second U •-'^^^J'of tb* ''"fiol U t^" 

"^ll/ol - you taken ttee "-^^^r 

both '^"""''^ "ab Ti^i* aoeSsir.. ^ ^ .^v,^t they 
* vii had ^P'^'^'^^iLf.t. It ^'"'^ \' H^-''*^'^ 

^' sTAVY08i> I'll tell yoo. ^^^y nonote^ 

your I -/J ira irc^-rtainly 

........ thAi I can or- Aoace e--^" 

'-''^''^ as f/r%* o«r ^-^'i t^Ue 


SpYUZ TEST PRoJeCT ' ' ' ' ' ' "pageU 

QUERY Glynn 
module, and what is North 
pf the Russian spacecraft 
lunney ' Okay, 
that first . And I think 

at what 
Amer I can 
hook up? 
let me answer 

s tage 

now is 
in the 

■ We 

built in 
each others 

the docking 
way of plans | 
• " •' ■ ^ i 

the second part of^^^^^; -j^^ 
it's Important to understand this. 
Ihe kind of work that we are engaged in is to try to agree 
on what in our program we would call interface type of agreements 
And what that really means is, in the case the docking system, 
tor example, the dimensions that are critical to having both 
mechanisms mate toge ch er , dimens i ons , loads, temperature, etc. 
We try td agree on those, which in effect, specify the kind 
of design you have. But then in each country, we build the 
hardware in our own way with our own techniques that we've 
developed our elves , so that we are agreeing with the Soviets, 
In effect, on requirements on design. I'm talking about 
docking systems. This is true of all the other systems, 
agree on the requirements and then each in our own way with 
our own equipment and techniques the systems are 
their own country. We do not try to manufacture 
*jquip«&ft«- . The docking nodule at this t^oint is very far 
along in terms of the definition of its design. As a mattei 
o: (act, a week ago Ton Stafford and 1 and others were at 
North Asertcan holding what we call a critical design review, 
which is fairly late in the engineering release cycle, 
enelnperirg release of the drawings that the docking codule 
will be built from. And we found a very little problem with 
it. It's going yery well, stayed on the schedule the whole 
time that we have layed out, and we're very pleased with it 
in that we think we are able to make it very rugged and very 
reliable, and also we are able to make it sinple to operate, 
ind I think we have a mockup which we have been building and 
it is at various 4tagos o f f i de 1 i ty , b u t Tui* was in the docking 
Tfodule mockup at Downey last week, and a ga 1 n , t h a t s e ems t o 
be coming along pretty well and indicate* the progress that's 
being aade on the docking nodule itself. 

QUERY Dekc. a wh 1 le ago you thanked Dr . Berry 

*nd the administrative people on the program for their help 
through the years and for putting on thtf flight. Was there 
a tine wh^n ycu thought they were wrong, and you fell ifttuitiveiv 
that regardless of the ouiour. you could fly? Did you think 
tliey were wrong at one point? 

SLAYTON Well, there wasr^t a tine I thought that, 

it was all the time. W.-jsn't ever any question in asy mind 
that it was wrong frcia day one. And there wasn't any question 
in a lot of other peoples' mmds either, but it took a little 
longer than I expected to prove it. Like ten years. 

'H'KRV Querttion for the forgotten »an. Vance, you 

sitting between the two highes*. brass in the astronaut progran, 
and on the fllgh': you're going to be sitting ist the same 
position. Hew do you get along with thirse two veterans? 

^'^A^I^ Super. I have no coaplalnts. We all 

get aJong fine. They're - I reaped the* a ot for their 
atsility -IS piJfjts and (t-^ adni nis t ratos> . 



»aieriy Kubasov, Gcvuy rn^i » 

: PAO . Good raorning. We're ready to get started. I'll make 

the introductions. We'll go from niy left to right. Even though that 
will not be proper protocol, it will be easier for you, I think, to iden- 
tify' people. Start with our interpreter, Mr. Nicholas Ticsacheff; next 
is the engineer of the Soviet flight crew, Mr. Valeriy Kubasov; next to 
Mr. Kubasov is the cornrvinder of the Soyuz on this mission. ' 

QUERY (Garble) 

PAO No; I say r.ext tr> Mr, Kubasov is the coinnander , 

Colonel Cosmonaut Aleksey Leonov. Next is the - our commander, General 
Tom Stafford; our cornniand module pilot, Vance Brand; and the docking 
module pilot, Dor.&ld Sla;/lon. Before we get started on it, we also have 
another distinguished cosaonaut in the audience I'd like to introduce, 
Valeriy Bykovskiy. 

QUERY Colonel (garble). 

PAO Colonel Bykovskiy fiev Vostok 5 in I963. 

PAO Genernl Stafford. 

Sl'Ai'FORD Well, I think we made a significant step here in 

the progress of the project. 

•SPEAKER Do you want r.e to translate it? 

STAFTORD We have any Russian 

TRA.N3LAT0R (Russian) 

STAFFORD This is the first tine that we have worked cur proce- 
dures together as crevs. 

TRA-NSLATOR (Bussian) 

STAFFORD Ani it's been very rewarding - the progress ve have 

made in going through the transfer operp.tions. 


STAFFORD For example, the second day we tried It, we did it in 

about one-third the time that we did the first day. 



And I'm sure this progress will continue. 

TRA.N-3LAT0R (Riissitin) 
STAfTORD So - - 

srEAKEB (Russian) 

r,PE«ER (P-asslan) 

las. vl.i., .as Prir.arily for r«ose of 

getting acquamuea 

^^T'-AKKR (Russian) , : . • 

T that these ^'^'^^ 


wn have really vorXod - - 


™„S.«OB .-a.on..UnU,ec,.e.of...U„Ue.S...s. 
GPvaKTR (Russian) 

SPEAKl'.K . .. vorK on the 

o rn-Dlete and finalize tr.e ^orK 
TRANSLATOR Our task vas to co.plet 

transfer docunients . 

cD-^hw^ (Russian) 

SPcAKLR V , ..^ four trans- 

on the procciure on tr»« 
^RAIJSLATOR And to^worK cut all the F 
fers between the spacecra.-. 

^p^'Jk'^'R (Russian) 

. vith the spacecraft ApoUc 
TRA.NSU.TOR And to got acquainted the 

SPEAKER (P^ssian) ,o actually opera. 

SPEAJCER (Russian) 

^NSLA^H EnsineerKuhasov..Keavith..ese..... 

SPEAKER (R'.sei^") 

Evcryihins that vas g.ven .0 us 

; accotnpl iehed . , , : . ;2' / 

the introductions. ST^II T o. T'^ '° ^^^'"^^'^ • ^'^'^ 

vill not be proper protocol? t viU b^^« ° ''f'" ^^at : 

people. Start With ter ,rcter M ''m °v T"' ' "^n- 

^ the engineer of the Soviet ASI erev J'^'f ^in^cheff; next 

^^RY (Garble) 

PAO No- I sa 

Colonel Cosmonaut Allks-y LeLoT^ f^" ^""^^^^^ the con^nander , 
Tor, .-tafford; our con^nd nodule 'niw <=°™ander. General 

:noduie pilot, Donald Slayt^ Lfoi ' ^'"^"^^ <^he docking 

-other distln^ishe.! coTjnaut' n h7:Xe:.:e^'^:^ °" ' 

v-^leriy Byko. k'.y. '"'^ audience I'd like to introduce, 

^^RY Colonel (garble). 

PAO Colonel Bykovskiy flew Vostok 5 in I963. 

'^^'^ G^Jneral Stafford. 

STAFFORD Well T thi.v 

the progress of the project. "^"'^ sigr.ificant step here 1. 

■SPEa;<ZR Do you vant ne to translate it? 

STAFK)RD We have any Russian - - 

TRANSLATOR (Riissian) 

STAFFORD This is the r r<=. t / , 

dures together as crevs. ^''"^ ^''^^ ^^rked our pro>ct- 


STAFPO.RD Ar.i it's been verv 

-^e in going through the transfer "^erlt;:;'!"'; "'' '''''''' ''^^ 
TRM3LATOR (Russian) 

aboutl^^h'Jrd the Z^^l^ ^ IT^TirtlV.; ' 

™D And I', sure this ViU continue. 



r-s.MQTATnR The main thing is that, I think that during the 
tral^lrt aS;' ?"»3f„r1o tlve rinluy four,,! the Und or Lnguage U,a. 
ve will be using. 



-^ANSLATOR Oar work is considerably better vhen the A;.eri.:ar, 
crew s'^eaks Russian aJid our crev speaks English. 


discipline - - 

(Laugnter ) 

This forces us to Mintain a cons i ier^.b^c- - 

',0 be attentive to each other, 


. _ ar.d to speak much mbre - much more clearly. 

I think that this is the course ve will take. 

At ar.y ratr, for the tii:ie being, ve haven't got ar.y 

other rropoaition from either one side or the other 

SPEAK>:R Okay, we're ready for your questions now. Brunei.,... 

ntTTRY Yep, for - I guess ToB or anybody on the li.S. xrcv. 

these transfer 




TRA.NSLATOR Generta Stafford said that they xmd>,n,land that 
Leonov said - Mr. Leonov said ve've no problem in language. U .w 

each other very .xuch. » » - r.i..« 


"^^■'^'^ I ^I'ive a question for the Russian crew. 

TRA.-i.;LATOR (Russian) 

QUERY v,rhy has the planned orbit of AfiXF been - of tiie .Sov , 

CcZ rU'"^ '""^.^'-^ '^^^^'^ ^'-^^ Up '-til this tin.., U.U ' 
tosmo bjcJ , It, nad been 51 ,6. 

to interpret? 






Voald you please repeat that so it vIU bo i^isslbi'j 

Yes. '^y has the plruinevi orbit 

Vhy vhatT 

Vliy has the plnnned orbit - - 

- - 01' the Soviet space ship in the ASTP launch - - 

- - been shifted from - - 

- - 51 .f' degrees - - 

TRA-'ivl LATOR ( R i y s i an ) 



- - to 51.8? 

Why this Kind r.f a chmige haa been m&de in Iht- 
inclination of the spacecraft, really is something that wo don't eVcn 


It doesn't Mtler for us. 

SPEAKKR (Russian) 

,B^-,5LA™b I. is s„ch a s^U c.a„se U»t V. h,ve not cvo., . ' 
^old about it. v, 

SFEAKtR (Russian) 

r-- nrswer to tnis question, 
should .iiscuss this with om-, vitn ^ix 
and they vili be able to give you tu, .-..-^^ ■ 

SPEA>:ER (Russian) 

TPA-,.'.UTOH NOV, they Is^^o^S^'tr t-crde^::: 

but I can probably give you explar.a.xon as .0 

51.6 degrees instead of 52 degrees. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRA:3UX0R one of the --ons^is thaVour I.uuch-.ite is locul.u 
arproxL'-ely in the cex.ter of the Sovic. bn^on. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 

.BA.,-3LATCR And that .est of the fli^.t - the initial riigj.t 
over tTarea which is land ai.d a populated area. 

S?EAKf:R (Russian) 

TRANSLATOR And a. it is well V^nc^w.. , the f ir.t sta,e an. th. 
second stage do not BO into orbit . 

SPFjS^'GER (Russian) 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

, hvK < n the Rround. 

These - tne ooostt'i a ^.a..... l i t. 


And every tiro, that there is a new ni^t planu.u - 

SPEW.>:H (RussiBii) 

.n^n <t has to be vorKe^l cut in a nwirter ^^'^t these 

TRANi>LATOR - - v J\ a populated are&. 

f irot Hages do not fall on to any kir^ of a pot 

GPSAKER (Russian) 

TRA-NSLATOR This can be achieved by exactly what you're talkirig 
about - changing the angle of inclination to a certain degree in each ciio*. 


And apparently this was exactly the case for z)ilti 



QUERY I had thought perhaps it nig}it mean u change oi" 

launching sites, particularly since all the previous shots had beeri 
uTitil CostDO 638. 






(Russian) 6OO what? 

( Russiar. ) 

'•io. The launching site was not ch!inK<2U. 
Jim .'-'.aroney . 

One of T-his country's forcEOSt Berosp>ace maga-irics 
recently described Soyu?. spacecraft as l-'.ttle irvore than an unmanned i.i..i^."e 
craft and cor.pared it with the .Mercury, this country's fir.3t gci.eralivii 
nanned spacecraft . WouH one of the cosmonauts cciifflent on tliis? 





cotnmenlftries - - 




It is ve/y -lifficult for ne to praise my wartu. 

And I would not like to listen too cure fully to thv 

- - because I'm not really quite eure about the com- 

petence of thf? news media to answer that, question. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRANSLATOR At this tftbl": we haV'5 real Ciwcialista 


SPKAKKH (Russian) 

:t. and are ir.tendir.g to vork with it. I thirJc the best suited - i 
SPEAKER (Russit i) 

TRA.N^>L/iTOR - - the best suited to giv« an ai-vor -ro- iv,./ 
De cither General Stafrorr., Va..e Br.and . SL^^t^' 

SPKArCER Let mo Jujt adc5 on somethir.R to what ' - h^^n c.- < 

It's rr.- imriressim +■'■0* tr..i. vnat i> been saj'j. 

vhicn IS what it was designed for. s,..ecra.t .or Ea:tn -.ri. 

TRA'i.lLATOP (Russian) 

ijPEAf.'ER And o-xr sj-taceoraTt in mtwv v^v ic- 

TRAN'SLATOR (Russian) 

SPr-yiXZR So I think thaf^ in a nutshell vhv - tha' U a 

/ine-.-or. For exar.plc, in our computer vc had to LL / 
tion between here and the Moon. You simply dor M 4 for navi.u- 

sort Of cor.piexity in an Earth orbitaf veh(«le? " * ' "'"'^ '''''' 



The spacecraft Soiiia is intended for urbitul 

^' "^"ixai- ani}, spacecraft, or vitr, 


- - and the ship's response to these requireiaents ir. 





a spacelab - - 


a beautiful laanner. 



SPEA>rr:R (Russian) 

TRAJJ3LAT0R They will find advantages and disadviintages of botii 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRA.N3LAiOR Ai-d I 'a sure, as a result, ve vill find even better 

solutions and - - 

EPEAKKR (R-Jssian) 

TRA:."3LAT(^R - - Which has to be one of the results of our 
cooperat ior. . 

SPEAilER I ac sure. 


Q^^RY I've beer, told by soneone very close to this pro^i'^. 

that it w, mid be impossible for the So>-uz to iock vith the Apollo in 
this missior.. Is thai true or not? 

TRAN'SUVTOR (Russian) 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRANS1.AT0R I vould suggest that the person who told you that v.- 

conie up and tell his stcry right ncv. 

3PEAIKER (Russian) 

TRA:(SLAT0R We would like to talk to him. 

STAFTORD r think, Jir., just to clarify that, we dc, in fact, 

in the flight plan todaj , have a Soyiiz aotj.-f docking plan with lue 
Soyuz side cf the docking s-ysteia active insteau of passlvt-. 


STAFFORD Nov, whether they have an active control system 

not, to acconplish it, that haver.U worked out the details on, I don' 
think. But we do definitely plan on having their docking systen be the 
active system. 

TPA.HSLATOH (Rusp.'an) 

SPEAKKR Arthur Hil]. 

-. Ql^RY Colonel Stafford, you mentioned -,r r-.-. r. , .... - 

^tafford. Sorry. (Laughter) You .^nlioned c tt n, dcv L^^ 

tire to one-third, but you didn't give us a base tiL fo' hew 'p-^'; 

took ycu the first tir.e. f»c. .0^^ xt 

TRj'O.-^LATOR (Hussion) 

STAFl-^RD The first tine ve started tbrou,y. this v.. Ju.t - v-- 

frcr. that ve vorkea out sor^ other prc«edures, you knew, verier v 1,- 
JIluHl £0 through it (Russian), you know! Tl^^i .hlutj^ 

TRATiSLATOR (Russian) 

TRA.NSLATOR (Russian) 

tra^ TiZ'^T' . To learn exactly what each other erev is doing at 
tna. tiine ana understand it and vhen we've completed each step - 

TRA:,-.-5LAT0R (Russian) 

, . Just to make sure that there is complete undor^tax 

TRA],'SLATOR (Russian) 

lenptn o. titae it. would take u: , say. vent down preasur... You knew 
veM Just say - ve'd bypass that step because we'd wait. In ^eS u'^. 

^:ue^^:e1inr•^ro^^!^^:! "^^^"^^ ''^---^^ ^^^-^ wMiIv?:' 

TRANSLAWR (Russian) 

?!f^\ / '"^^^y^^ =^^^1^1 eiVo oe an estioHte. Ruti 

v^nt to - to part a Httle bit from the technical a.p^ct in - v.u i 
bai!bIv/S cosmonaut what social activities, such as going t. n. 
baseball ga«, and so forth, they might have d oh e on the trip a?d Ch,t" 


,f these activities vas. , ^^^nd, iC 


very little tl=^' 

o^. T sure that ve viU 
^RAIiSLATOB a little- 


Maybe it's a secret. 

...reir^ly Toll schedule Jc. 
Ve have an^^^y 

(Ru6*ian> . vil^ v.'*''*'" ' 

during these Joint expc 

SPEAKER ^^^^ ... ,o not .new at th.s ..i.- 

,KANSLA.>3R H- U'tufprite'the other, 
because everybody vw.- 

*hing is '^^'^^ ' townS each other. 
i^Ylp nail- .ni«'6 * » „<• i-«<-,o€Ct i';**'^ 
TRANSLATOR ^ ^^.^^ ^portant eleir^^nt of re.p- 


Sl?^-^^'^ ,^ , fev vords to that. 

I vould lil^e to add a fev 


8PPAKER ^ ^ over heve has not 

^^ like to say thai our Qtay ^^p. 
, rroll^^ point f Lj^uone lhat v. hav 

,„,/.een exi-.jly ^ technical occup. 

sii^iulator activity, 
had - - 



TRANSliATOR But our stay has been extreraely pleasant ovt-r heic 
and I hope just as pleasant for Our friends, the Anerican astrona\il6 . 

SPEAKER (Hu33ian) 

TRANSLATOR In x"act , vq did have several evenings and dinners at 
' neir houses. 

SPEAKER (R-uSsian) 

TRAKPLATOR And I voiild like to divulge a secret to you that th^s 
who are putting together a flight plan — 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRANSLATOR - - they have planned for us joint dinners during 
the flight. 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRANSLATOR These seals vill take place both on Soviet s>'i.-fcra;i 
as well as cn the Ar.erican spacecraTt. 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRAifSLATOR And I am quite sure that these Joint meals will tak-j 
place in an atmos^xiere which vill be even warn-er than that which j orvai-.d 
the neals we had here on Earth. 

^UERY Rut that aeans that sonebody will have to sta^- tohini 

and mind the store. What the poor astronaut or cosmonaut who doesn'!. get 
to eat the joint meal' You'll have to draw lots for that? 




( Russian) 




(Russian ) 


We'll just divide up into groups. ' 




One group vill be cn the ApoUc, the other one cn 

Soy\iZ a'.d there will be comunications via television. 


SPEAKER (Russiar.) 

TRM3LAT0H And aj^er that ve will exchange. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 

So each astronaut eaxd cosDonaut vill visit each 

other '3 ship. 

?nri; ^ report that the Soviet Union has decided nov t' 

iZT.T^ ^^<iiato fX^ture plans for landing on the I-fcon. '^.at arc U.. 
plans along tnis line? 


SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRAN3LAI0R We have a definite program of research - Moon rest:.- ■ 
lunar research. It has been ar.nounced ar.d ve have a .Moon rove^ ■ ^ 

on tne mc. The research pro^rar. is all t.u.en care Tl/^^lt^":"'' ' 
w.h au.oinatic controls which allow it to land on the y^r , H ga^h;.' 
.^.erials^ar.d rocks and dirt from the :^cu and return. Ar.i f.-r m I--,. 
t '^"'^ Of prog.-ar. is going to continue, 'rfhat vill foiUv 
"oi ""V con.^ratulate cur A::=c^rica.. c^ 1 .a;^'^ 

-or having completed successrally the Apollo Prograr.. We ccnsid-^rer-,. • 
as an outstanding acMeve.^nt . And v. kncv thatVn.ral St ? -ori V 

conducted!'" "'^'^ '^'^'^-^ '^^^ ---'"^ 

Q^RY For the Soviet crcv - 

TRA'iSIJ^TOR (Russian) 

Do you knew if there vill be any r.,.u)ned tert f*.,jt.t.'. 

TRA\SLATOR ^f^as3ian) 


For the Soviet crev. Do you know if there vxil 

any_w.ned test flights of the extensive S:,-u= modified e.J^^.; ^suc. 

rrn>,."'*^''f w ~ " "'^"^ panels, the ntv 

probe, and the radio gear, for exaapleT ^ 



SPEA--KR (Russian) 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRA.N'SLATOR _ f>,o+ 

the Soyuz to test cut all th/'ysto'r''' '° canned ni,;:,C 

developments have been in^^^i^^^^,':^:^^ 

SPSAK2R (Russian) 

ve had a new ^^in^s^e^f^^: " ^h<^ ^oyu^. an. 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

in wTthe^'i^ .^fn;t^%'°r: '"^n^"^ "^^^ the Ap.IIo/.o,.. 
an Of the.o nev systei. "'^ ^^'^ ^oyu. to te.t 

^AO Bruce. 

HICKS Vec: Tor - 

♦-ra:isfers are curr-r.tiv'ir ->,^ r-f'^'f 7 ^'-''^ ' ^-^'-v 

thin,:, other than d V:;;.; -m '^J^"'' "-^-^ ^'^-^^ ^-F^-inc >incl'c: 

.nr.e.s .ill conduct during those transfers? 

TRA:;3LATOR (Russian) 

SFrJiKER (R^issiar.) 

TRA\.)LAT0R Ve havf n .■«>--. ^ , 
space ex;>erir^nts. ^^^^^^-^^y established progra:n of 

SPE,\KER (Russian) 

vl^l"rtfe\ch orh%r"f s\fn^^^^^"' "^'^ ^ s a.,., 

EPE.A:-:f:fi (R^jssian) ■ 

as in'^hl^'^jeL. ^^^^ -Peri.ents'wu be conduced in Soyuz as w;; 
SPEAKER (Russian) 


TRAIiSLATOP I --an give you the naces of these exi.H.-rii«L-.£ , if y^'- 
vi.h;3 tfe^i.Uis. car. tell but - One of the Joint e.,er.^:^. .-^b 
to be - will be as a artificial solar eclipse; - - 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRAN3LAT0R - -- the second one will be an experii«nl the 
multipurpose furnace. 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRA:.-3LAT0R It has to do vit.h the voiding of metals ii: ^pace. 
SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRAIiSLATOR And actually, I'n personally ^'^iJ^^ ,,,,, 
f.xr>eriiDen- is ^ning to be conducted in as cuch as - one o. .te .n-^t 
"at rfi;u in'space, I had to do quite a bit of nysel: . 

SPEA*'SR (Russian) 

TRA:;SLAT0R I am the first one vho has ^^l^']^ 
in space, I vill oe extrenely happy to tay.e par. m tr.i. -,.e a. 
■ experirx^nt r^yself. 

SPEA>:ER (R^jssian) : = 

TRANS' ATOR On top of that, there are several physical tna 
biolog^ thlt vill taXe place, ar.d I thir., fn.t Vance B.u:.. 
can give you ari ilea of tha- . 

BRA.ND Weli , there is another physics -typ-l exp«ri»:nt, f^r e - - 

TRAiNSLATOR (Russian) 

3RAIn) - - vhich is atteizp. deiermne h-.v r^ar.y ^itroge. 

sr,d oxygen nclecules there are in space at that altitude 

TPA.N;:LAT0R (Russian) 

BRAN-. - - between - between spacecraft thnt are flying 
fairly close together. And, of course, then there'll be a : ^logical 
l^aly^i^ Of b^tS s^.cecra:^. tc determine - Yes, to determine new gerns, 
et cetera transfer between spacecraa 

TRA-Nr>LATOR (Russian) 

BRA?iD , 
launched at Cape Kennedy endl^ul'T. h"^ ^^^^^^^^^Y if a germ that wa- 

TRA:f3LAT0R (Russiar,) ' 

SPEAKKR (Russian) 
TRANSISTOR All of t> " • 

SPnAf2R (i^ussian) 

TRA.';3LAT0P -^r- - 
in space ana to ^Tl^^^^ ^^^J;^ /^^^ ^^^^ cth. 

SPE^J-CKR (Russian) 

■niA-NSLATOR - - to , 

*icns in helping each cther~-r s'^t°^'^:'" rrotieirs of - .,re tine . • 
oo.t i^ortant experi;;^r!;? " ''^^ ^= ^^"^ ^^^^ i-fortar.t Uc' 

Paul Rcaser. 

Pi:A.S£R ^^^^ 

eacn other'^ vehicles? That is^^Jl f"^'":"-'^ '"'^^^ -'"^1^ cross-v,-.,. 
fcrr. m the other vehicles? ^^^iv^ties vill you be able 

TR.V0LATOR (Russian) 

Of proficiency i. ei t:J: 'pe^scn'^s;:^^;''"' '^^'^^^^ 
TR;.-i.>LATOR (Russian) 

<.it.w returning to ~e. ,. 

TRAVSI.ATOR (R^^sian) 

oLAYTON' For fn ♦ 

involved in reentering. ir^'h^"oy.;.-\^s'"^'r^ ""J understa;.a vnal ' 

involved in reentering in the aJ^IU, ' ^'"^ '''''' --ierstand what's ^ 

TRAfKLATOR (R-.ssian) 

that launched uut, that ieh'» " =Mier or tUc 

for the other ore^ tS 1: frM/'i:::^^, ^l!:"''?"- ' . - -^-^IC-^t 

iiicH. xe%el of i-roficiency in reentering. 

TRANSLATOR (Russia/i) 

Union'?^Sen and vherf vfjf rne'rLt ^o^S;-"^'-'5 ,"^^-"^"8 to the Soviet 
train, ..d vhe. win that trairinr^c.^r?'''' ^^^^^^^ '^'"-^ ar.l Soyuz crev 

TRAJfSWTOR (Russiar.) 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

or thl'^^eunm ^aJ^Vr' :"\'r--'« ---n - Joint .raining se..:.- 

until the i5th " "'^'^'^ '^'^ ^"'^ Of ji;;- 

SPZAXER (Russian) 

tlr^, ve have ag.eed co.Stef;^or oLt vi f"'"-- ''^ '^^ 

SPEAVT^H (Russian) 
The Soviet crev is g^ir^ Io\^ . ^"^'"^ '° ^"^•^^^^ Joi'-'- ses^i. 


SPEAKER (Russian) 

see the 'site ^ BLy^.'^'^lJ^J^T"-":^'''' '''' PossiUlity 
prepared ueek by veeh until the J^^^ l^,;;^ ^ ^^^^'^^^^ 

SPL«ER (Russian) 

need If ' n^' w^^^^^^^ sv.?.!' c-'Thria' ^"'^f^^' '"'^ --'^ 

ror the., t^at of i;;'!:,:; .^^.J J^^- of the A.ilU, 

parts cf t he systems with vhich ve vlll ■ ' - 

suuatio., but an of the ^o^r:^^^^^:^^^^:^::^^^:: ^ . 

The f r.. r. th. Houston ncvs service. 


QUERY Wf^'vf. K , 

from Va.ce and Deko. " ^-^-n; I wo.Jer ,r we could .c-. 

TRA'KILATOR (Russimi) 

Uiussian ; 

TRAxVSlATOR Don'- * ■ 

i^on I. nsent ion it . 


.ou can see, he is doing very vel3 
S^AY^^-' (Russian) • 


,:";"-'^°"----—-^^=.v.., ......... 

TRA-VSUIK)? (Russian) 

SPEA^SR (Russian) 

TPJL'iSLATOR j va^.. 
^'^ring tne transfer operat io'ns'^f/ ' ^"""^"^ ^'^^ ^'^^^^ '^r. the s'^- 

SPKAXSR (Russian) 

T R^\."|-3IJ;?0R As -'a r « - . 

or a sincle ro-r- . ' ^ ^ concerned, then- vnc, . < 

. -raining sessions, ve vm ■ ^'^ sure thai in 

u-erstandir.,, linguisticallV'^' '"'^ i-^-asing a.ount ^f ^i^.,,^ 

-^-t ,r:.,re-.s have ,ou ro.ind vi^h ^It^S^? co^nnunic.t icn , .r^f, 

T-HAA-SL,^:i:r (Russian) 
. , Bt^rJ^n (Russian) 


I vould like to very nuch . 


Does this aoan that th^ ^ ^^'"^ fracticJng a S- v, - . . • 

to ren.o^vous7 -^>- " capable or prC^a^^^; ZZ^Zi^^l:: 

SPEAKER (p,33.^^^ 

TRA'.'.JLATOR r ^t ' 

'active docking system. ' """^'^'^^ rendezvous with , . 

^^^•^^ (Russian) 

X"* - --r„, 

program hfis beco"'» •t.^mlK^'*'^'"''" ''^'"'^ one thine '-n . 

TRA^VSUTOR (R,.ssia„) 
STAFTORD Well 1.* 

■»tiiou4t to pre.Tu^ij.c'o 

TFA.V3LAT0R <R,assian) 

" -iso CO., vhioh Js ea8i;/th/'^^^^ dioxide, i . , 

vTong. easier than ... ^^g. i vrobuh- • ^ 

^^trat^.,, prc..aomic^d that 

TRA;.;LATOh (Russian) 
STAFTORD But I rn- . V 

\ . . ' ^""^^ saying the saxo 



SPEAKER (Russian) 

cussed all of the questions coaccrn^ ^^^^^Ld ar. opportunity 
phrases that vould be usea, ana cwe.j 
give tis oplnicr. . 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

^ - f-^e. cf chiases a-'i'i stntences vhich 

TRANSLATOR ^Ar.d ve four.a the t.Te of^phx^a^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^ 

vould be the easiest and he :.^^-^^;;^^^^,,3 ,,,n give U3 the exact nea:...s 

crev. And at the sane >.irr.e, .ut^e ot 

or the exact inforr^tion vhich is needed. 

SPIA:<ER (Russian) 
se'-tences vhich v.ii. ^.e.uiv, 

;'jues :S:t everybody expects you to enccu:.ter. 
STAFrX^BD (Rur.sian) All riO^.t . 

He said thr.t ve are sure tV^t lan^^uagc is no pre! len. 


It may be for the &rcxind hearing us , but f-^'" ; 
TRA:i-SLATOR (Russian) 

■ v^^ ar'\ ""11 viil have that ii-cnci 

BARRE,RA If language is no ^-^^ ..^t seri.u. 

out conplctely by the tir.e you get up theie, 

( SPrAJCEft (Russian) 





If ve do cur homevork right, we ahu.iij tiot l.uvo uiv^- 

TRAiN'SLATCR {Rus3ian) 
BRAN'D That's 

^ _ BRA.,D That's exactly right. Our bi&gest problem io gcinf to 

be the one ve don't kncv anything about today. ^ 

TKA.VSLATOR (Russian) 

EHAKD I vas cnly joking about the ground. What I noa^il w.- j 

^o'""^? r'^^'r * tendency to come up vith a mxcd language ii vC\.> 

not carefu] , Russian and English, and so ve have to be c.refal to st^y 
one language at. r tir.e. 

TRA^iSLATOR (R>jsnian) 

^^^"^'^^ ^ ceiicve was Colonel Lannov vho wrote a vj^^c- 

so^^years ago abou. the advantages of parachute Jur-^dng b.fore a "^L.o 

7RA';SLAT0.= {Russian) 

QUERY r-ces the Soviet ?pace p-.-ogrfin still Uy that kii.j . r 

■TRANSLATOR (Russian) 
SPEAKER (Rtissi&n) 

r-, J^-^'^^'''"^^^ '^^■^^^ is a history behind all of that. Before a 
i-igh. . a cosaDnaut fron Vcstok - For landing; oh. thafj right. 

SPEAKER (S:..rsiar.) 

^'^ happened vas that the pilot cf the epacecra.L 

vas catapu.ted, a:, i he - in the training - ani he would le landing ' 
separately from the spacecra:-\. Vei: , ys . Rykovskiy hu. done that. C- 
lo be^^ralL ro^'thl?.""""'"'' correctly, the cosmonauts had 

SF7JLKER (Russian) 

TRANSLATOR After that, ve had the advent of spacecraft suoJ-, as 
boyuz ar.d \ostok in which the actual landing was done in the capsule. 
TZ^^^i: r *^f/'^^^ retaining in the cosrx>naut training a certain p^u- 
tion which vould involve the parachuting. , . , 



TPANSLATOR Actually, I an an Iriblructor of the tosiaonauta on 
various types of jxirachute Junping. We consider that in the tj-alning 
cosaonaut, perachute Jumping gives a lot. As a rule, these parachute 
Jumps are made with considerable delay, 1 minute or 2 laSnutea of free Tai t 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRA-'iSLATOR During the delay, the cosmonauts act-oaily do the kini 
of voi-r-. that is planned in advaxice. They're making tiirno, loops, 
approaches, and separations - actually, a certain fora of piloting, '..uii. 
actually, ve consider that a certain anoiuit of vi 11 power is aeYelep*'u 
and activity in difficult or contingency situations. 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRA;;SLAT0R But really do not consider that as basic cr initiu. 
or Important - most i.T.porta:it progran because there ai-e tilso oiher p-oc- 
abiiities such as traur.a, althou#;, of course, we haven';, had cases s i-h 
as that . 

FTiotographs or the crev,: , some of their activitio:. 
are available now in roon 187, the stiil-photo licrarv. We'., have io 
end this conference now. Thank you very auch. 



April 8 - May 3, 1974 

A meeting of Apollo-Soyuz Test Project specialists of the 
U.S.S.R. and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration 
was held at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas, 
U.S.A., April 8 - May 3, 1974. 

cussions and planning for the 3oint flight of A^xjIIo and Soyuz 
sp^cecrait to test compatible systems for rendezvous and docking 
of manned spacecraft and stations of the future. 

The proDect technical directors, the prime flight crews, 
and all five of the working groups took part in the discussions. 
Working groups are assigned to the areas of mission planning, 
control and guidance, mechanical design, communications -md 
tracking, life support and crew transfer. 

The technical directors. Prof. Konstatin D. Dushuyev for , 
the U.S.S.R. and Dr. Glynn S . Lunney. for the U.S., have scheduled 
the next Mjor meeting in Septeniber 1974, in Moscow. 

Joint flight crew training will be conducted in the U.S.S.R. 
June 23 - July 15, 1*374, and in the U.S.A. September 9 - 30, 1974. 

The purpose of the meeting was to continue technical dis- 


a,roe.ent was reacho. on the dates ,orv ■ 
respective i. u visiting the 

Pective launch sites by Specialists an^ 

t xuiists and members of th*> f^ ■ 
crews for f■■■,r^i^• "® flight„ with the spacecraft , . 
conduct the tests of co.patiH, " 

compatible equipment. The 

— Uunch Site.u taj ^"^"^ "^^^^ ^ ^ 

take place in „ay, 1^,5 

— Of the.pouo aoc..„, 
=y-e.. tests conaucte. ea.iie. i. a„/„e 

aocu^nt Which confi„s t^e co . - ^ 

'^'"s t.e cotnpatibility Of the f o . 
be prepared. V ''^'^ systems will 

k ^^-«-*ty assessment renori-o 

9 ^'^ <-^<^^trol systems and on . 

-n.facturing rest and Checkout ve --Spacecraft 

V^^V^"^--<^^na approved 

The schedules ^or each of the five joint 

- i^e joint exueriment <: 
approved. The experinents are- „U ' " 

■ Ultroiiolet Absorption , , 
Xnteraction. «icroMal Bxchan.e .„u,, 

oia.SoiarBcapse. ^ ' — - .rtifi- 


tAj-yfic Keadinesi Rov-ir.-, , 
in May 1975. ^ ^^^^ 

- --^e.ents for compatihie ren.e.ous 

and docking systems will be resumed at the meeting in September 
During the current meeting, the heads o£ the delegations 

visited the U.S. communication system compatibility test labora 

tory, the life support system breadboard test facility and the 

thermal vacuum test facility. 

The technical directors reported Chat good progress is 

being made, and the project is on schedule for the July, 1975 


- end - 


houston, Texas 

AST? Press Conference 

£>j". Glyfift LuaiK&y, U.S. 

Frof. KonBtafttln BuBhuyeY, U.S.J.R, 

A-lex T«tl«hch*ff, Tranelatoi' 

rr'..-/- - "V^. iR fr^;.^ .r^' ^i;**- Wk ■ ^ pretty 


be b 

People here fe,r „ ^ 
scheduled our next 1^ 

f -;>ty or actives ^ht"-"-"*'^ 

hav,. scheduled s^n^ 
astronauts t^ii^ Ve-a-t 

f^m, tine .3 th. ■ 
meeting i„ r . ^ 

^« 'ione ftt the resre^t : ^ 

V V'^^j, :;J'^^\, '^^:^Mkr^ce 

■ • ,,r the 

si i-' 

■ Ui^.-rc viii be 

.'v;'/:j;'^P^* in the 
■' states. 

1 the vork th^f V - . 

-both by « '!.rf" '''^^ ^^'it. 


conduct such a review in May of ]07^ a. *v 

very carefully all of the ^pects ofthf ^'""^ ''^ ^^^^ stu^Jv 

after a careful analysis ofaU the f«^^ Preparation for the flight and J 

to the rv^adiness as to the - vhetherv/""'"''' ^ ^--l^^ion 

flight. Ve were once again J^lviZT.T, I t ^""^ '^^'^^ ^° the 
States laboratory for tis Unrc^^lfcat on -?^-nted with the Unite< 

also with the tests conducted ^n^Jf l! ^'^•'^"i^^ation links and 
The di^ctors at this .eet cL'urv '""-^'^ '''' '"^^^^^ 
for completion of our work t.d cl-e lo'llT^ °' ^<^^o^-ies 
is proceeding on schedule successfullv 'n *=°-'^^l^=^on that our work 
-^leh we laid out m the past! Bo'h sld:< ^'^^ plans 

success^^.lly their responsibiiiMes in thf.T ' <^<=-Pieting 

to note the successful conduct t;f L f ' ^ especially war.ted 

that is the tests that ^roondu^f ^T.port ant part of our work, ,.^d 
period between our ^:st Le? .^-^^^rr'•'°" ^^^"^ 
in:portar.t tests wore conducted^ "Jrs of In"""? ^i^-'"' ' ^'^'^ --"^ 
verflcation of our decking rodule^ - f ' ^^^^^"al tests htA 
•"as done Jointly by bothlides ^ere" t^'^lt,^""""^^^ ' '"'^^ - --'rk 

the Joint work continued h^r^^ L^f! J ^ ^''^^'^ 
I can toll you with .pleasure that the S^..^ more thar. 3 months. ;nd 
developed by the Sov et andVeric^ ^ assemblies which were Jointly 

finished aJl of the t estr* o Chi ^wv, '"'"''^^^^^^ rough aj,d 

deal Of work was done on the c^pat b'Hrr%'''ir'''- ^ s'-^" 

This work was finished on{y J^^t^'J^ 'I radio communication systeins 
3 nonth.. Tn. conclusion "^^ e^! toT«"^ April and also lasted 
satisfactory. Flnailv, w^^ f T'']^ ^^'"e verv 

0 both A.ericar. and b^vier^^b^rs'^c ^^I'd -^a r?'"^'^^ -'^e participation 
life support systeas. Th*^ u «,™ . ^^-^eatlcns on the safety of 

took place in Mosccv anf th. f for'A^llff '"'.^T' '""'^^ " ^'^^^^^ 
^ain. both Asericar. an^l SoWet ste^Kll!,^''' J« «0'^«ton. I repeat 
The test3 were success ruTd wr^iJL Participated in thas^ tests, 
the res,nts. At this ,^eti", ' tM^ p^rt j?^^'^ 
carefully considered and plLned a L^^ll of ^T.??^'^"! ' ^"'^ directors 
13. aeetin^o of the ^or.i^^^ -r "a rfn' ''^''^^ ' 

and training of the personnel 'hat wni >"-7 ;r6lning - for crew training. 
Dr. L'lnney told vou alreX thJ. T \ stations. As 

Place the training of he J;.V3 n^M^^^ -^'-^e/July will be - wiU take 
vill take place here i , Houston v^f f ' "^"^ ^ Septetnber the sa.~.o thing 
Plenary rneetlr. of al work nTgrOuS^^ '^'1' " "^^^^ 

J-Josccw. In conclusion, I uoufd Mkr^Tl ^^^"^ September In 

condition Of the work as 0? ^^ ff^^f*"' assurance that the 

s su.h that the.e can be no Se^ a^v «^ ^^'^^v 

n preparing for and achieving ^S'^JJ be auocessrul 

/Jf l^.'^fio like to thank aH Jhoi* ^ho a^l*^? iL"^"^^ i^^^ scheduled. 
Lyndon }). Johnson Space Cent-r fr^r th» T i" ^^^^ JohnSor. - 

ground for our ^et i^ he ef AU eonS' H ^^^^^ ^'"^^P--^^ 
vere created for us hero?*i,s w" 1 Is pi Li ^""^ """^'"'^^ ""^''^''^ 
ycur attention. retreat. on vhlch ve h&d. l"hank you for 


]iv. fH^^ . ^" " "^^^ ''^^^ '^^^^ details ta:.e? Will it be 

live air-to-ground, periodic printci releases, or vhat exactly? 


(Russi an) 
(R us s i an ) 

the f ig tIeT" r"n' r Preparation of the flight and d. "n. 

ceive™^'-. fl-.!^r r ""'''^ -'^^ P'-^^^ ^^^'^-^ 


Abby (<?&rbJ.e) . 


r didn't Kft that cne, sorrv. 


You near, betvoen the centers? (Russian) 

aoiy 'f^f Kind Oi .esta that wo engineers ar.i managers would be mos* 

; r really up to our expectation^ . However, also - '» 

?ol'd" "iv'e T tMtJ'" '".'r' ^^'-^^ purpose 'bet:.e ie 

were Ivye oj six things found that it vas .-ood for us to find at thl« 
early «tvf-. For €-x.«spl... v„ found that the volur.o control on th^^ 
aud o P...1 car.not be at f..n - full cp.n. or "J^irvol-Se'^t' h% tl^: 
that V... arc trying to acquire the VHF ranging. We have not yet rellcT 

; LUNNFIY : W have made cfjmmunication plans to be able to relay ■ 

the air-to-ground and air-to-air that exists in each country to the other 
siae. We have not fvilly worked out yet whether that's full time - whether 
that line will be open full tijrte or whether it ^11 be open selected time. 
We've agree in principle that it will be open, certainly, at selected 
times. I ceua't recall exactly what they all are, Paul, but they would 
be called out in a document that would describe the interaction between 
the two control centers. We're also discussing the desirability of ; ; 
having that line open all the tine that the flight is going on; however, 
we haven't reached final agreement on that particular kind of use of the 
line yet. But in the cotrununi cat ions between control centers, we htivi 
two lines called out for the - for the air traffic that each side would 
receive, this coiu^try going to the Soviet Union and vice versa. So two 
of the nine lines would carry the air-to-ground, or air-to-air as you 
know it . 

SPEAKER Jim Kfiloney. , 

'■'ALOUT/i Professor, I don't londerstand the objection to having 

foreigners witness your launch. 

TIVJiSLATOR (Russian) 

VAW.iEY And secondly, will there be live television cover'i<7.e 

cf your launch brought to this country via satellifj? 

TRA-NOLATOR (Russian) 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TRAJJ3LArOR In the press center, which will Include both foreign 
and other press representatives - - 

SPEAKER (Russian) 

TFAIfSLATOR will receive all the inforastion at the prepar - 

launch preparation for the launch anc3 infomatlon during the launch 

SrB:AKER (Russian) 

TPJ\N.^IJiTOR That inforaation will bo sufficiently full and complete 
to give you a coEpieto picture of the preparations for the flight and the 
circiUDi-tances of the launch of the vehicle. 

Q(.rERY Was that yea or no? 


THWISLATOR ■ And such flights for the purpose of testing these 

various changes vill be made and - including a flight that viU be made 
this year. 

. p/^o Did you have a question, Abby7 

QLHTRY Professor Bushuyev , did I iinderytand you cori^ctly, 

that you vill use an America satellite to conunun irate not only vl\.h 
this co^antry but with the spacecraft? 


SPEAKER (Russian) , , 


Yes, the satellite vill be - the American satellite 
vill brus^'in or'er to obtain inforaation on the flight of both space 
vehi cles . 

SPEAKER (Russiafi) 


But the direct ccgrmunicaxion vith the satellite vill 

be done through spacecraft Apollo. 

LU>,'.,-vy Let me exparid on that Just a little bit, Abby . I 

believe next month ve are plar.ning to launch an advanced-technology-F 
satellite for a variety of purposes. The advantage of the satellite, 
of course, is that it's a high-capability comrn'onication satellite at 
synchronous altitude. We have implemented a systera vhereby ve can use 
■he hiph-gain antenna that you are fa~iliar vith fran the lunar aiBslons 
to coDmunicate voice telemetry ar.d television - vith Scr.e restrictions, 
but vith those kind of capabilities - through the satellite bacV. .o ground 
stations ar:d back to - to our control center. So in effect . it ^ n 
tremendous expansion of the nonnal ground station coverage that ve vould 
have. And if all vorks according to plar, . ve vould end up vith coverage 
on app.-oxlmatelv 50 percent of each revolution. Ar^d I thin* - i nin^ 
vhat Professor B.ishuyev vas referring to then is that the voice and the 
telemetry from the spacecraft and the teUviaion holds out the promise 
for us that indeed both Of our control centers can tilmost be^in the 
cockpit during the Course of the Joint mission, at least half the 
revolution; not unlike the kind of coverage thai veve re able to have 
vhen v> vere on the lunar surface. 

QUERY Olynn, I have a vision of - you kaov, the cosaionauia 

in our spacecraft and the astronauts in the it spacecraft and Dekj Sl&yton 
speaking Russian and the cosmonauta are speaking English and we have 'v . 
Cf^trol centers and fv:, flight controllers. H<v are coing to sor\ 
each ether out? 

UiriMEY ' And the kind of sitiiation where it might not be 

Lr.-.edialoly obvious what was going on was if - and I wouldn't want to - 
1 certainly wouldn't want to nako too c^uch of this, because we think 
this v/ild be unlikely - but if at the tine that the modules - that is, 
♦he S-'j'i-.'. and the docking module - were open to each other, if there 
vas a presaurization problem of sone kind, it might not be irxiediately 
obvious as to where the probleni was because you've got the two volunes 
cpen to each other. But the idea is to prepare procedures that would 
isola-o that as quickly as possible and then i\irthermore isolate the 
prrblem in the respective codule£ . 

aJSHu'fEV (Riissian) 

TR/vJSLA'TfjR Professor Bushuye/ says he'd like to add scnething to 

that . 

BUSHUYiT.' (Russian) 

TR/viSLATGR That problem does not worry ne . , 

HJSHUYEV (Russian) 

TRANSLATOR First of all, as Dr. Lunney said, we've already 
estabiishefi - 

BUSli^J^r.' (Russian) 

TFJUiSLATOR Thft' in Apollo and in Soyuz . respectively. It is the 
corammider of that vehicle v:;o is in charge . 

BUSHUYEV (Russia.'-i) 

TRC5PLAT0R Ar,d ar.v rrobien that arises in connection with the 
spacecrfift Soy-uz will be solved or decided by the commander of Soyuz ar.d 
vice versa, for Apollc. 

HJfirOY&V (Russian) 

TfU-VSIATOR But, cf course, it's natural there nay be problems tha 
arise that involve both i;pa?crraft at the same tine. 

BUPHUYEV (Russian) 

TRAIiSLATOR Our experience in our <oint worX shows or indicates 
that no probleas will arise as a result of tha'- . 

E!,k'HirYEV (Russian) 


^^^'^ factor. '-^otn easea 

*-'^-Sn!rnnnt Arid r * 

^ RLDMOND WelcoD-e back to the Johnson Space Center. I'd like to 

asK you before ve start - there are some handouts on the side table that 
Nlr. G-aili s going to be referring to. So if you could get at least a 
copy of the ASTP Experiments Docunent, it's got all of the experinents 
listed inside and we'll be naking reference to then later on. There's 
also a copy of the listing of principal investigators by experiment nurber 
on the side table. And anybody interested in receiving a transcript of 
today s briefings, if they vould sign their name and address on the pad 
on the table folloving the briefing they'll be mailed ti) you. 

' SPEAKER - When? : 

REMW.ND r can't tell y,u, Mavy. Also, Lockheed wishes to «ake 

known something that they have going on today. Those of you interested 
in bpace Technology, applied to terrestrial problems, are invit-d to 
visit a demonstration of industrial waste treatment. It happens to be 
locatea at the Alpha Bulldi.-.g about a mile from here. For -ie bails please 
contact Roger Beele of Lockheed .Missiles ar.i Cp..ce Ccmp-.ny . who's present. 
This morning s oriefing is on the Apollo-Soraz Test Project experiments 
a.".- we have with us ASTP Project Scientist, Ton Giuli, Dr. Giuli. 

GIULI OVay. I've written th:s document, this ASTP Experiiaent 

tx-x.ary, as sort of a very general stateme.n't or description of the 
scientific objectives and the programmatic aspects of the experimen-s that 
we have on the ASTP mission. The document does not de..cribe the detailed 
techniques , the hardware, the quantatlve aspects of the experiments very 
m-uch excert as - they might be particularly interesting or related 
.eatures of the ASTP missibn such as multiple vehicles or other missl'-n 
parameters. Ve have on the missior,, in add- t ion to the experiT,ents other 

2 o'M'^m''' t'''^' detailed test o"^ and 

also Cher thirds such as science demonstrations. These thimrs we will 
not be discussing at all today. >'hat we are discussing today are the 
actual full -bicwt, experiments, things which have a n-x-nber associated with 
..lem wnich begin with the letters MA or in one case AP . And you'll - 
you 11 see these all listed in these - these documents and also on the 
Vu graphs which I will be talking from. 

We have three topics to investigate with our exp-ri.-nents on the ASTF 
mission. We are studying space Sciences, life sciences, and applications- 
tnat If, we are doing experioents In these three fields. And if I c-.-.n'i^ ' 

'?It ••'Mir* 'TT ''''' experiments 

.hat -0 have p.t in tne category of space sciences. I don't know if th-se 

cf you in back cbn read this very well. Is thit visible to vou? Ohav ^ 
As a side conr.ent , I h^ve indicated on these Vugraphs those experiae.-As 
vnioa are placed on the misaicn by the West :-.-man Govern.-sent . Also 
^nli^^i"""";^ ^■^•^''^ performing Jointly with the Soviets; na.mely, the 

double aaterir. or th. single asterisk. Ycu'U see on the n^xt VugVaph 
some single asterisks. But on the mission, w? Actually have five 

exoeriinents which ve are perfoming Jointly vith the Soviets. And ve 11 
S'li^usl ng these in turn as we go along. The space sciences - 
broken dowr. ?nto two categories: the f .^"^^ ' ,Ji:3?^:^' 

environitent effort. And the Earth environment is >^oth the a^°°sphere 
.h! V«r7h and the surface, and even the interior of the Earth. But 
^aint ve'irbe getting mo;e into these. May I have the next Vugraph . 
" please? ■"'.v;', 

nve Tgauons on the bloorsar.ples of all --^^f f,, 
mission that is, the tnree American crevr.embers and the So.iet ere. 
^tlltV the blood sa^nples taken before ar.d after the nission. But they 
Tf rinfo t-ne^ne^uU above the AK002 exj.ri.ent. ^They - they fom 

a complete package which, ve will t.i^^^J^^^J'^t^,, ,he 

An-i then the first three exr>eriment3 having to do vjth investigating tne 
TfJec^s of the particle radiation environment on living tissue , 1 ving 
S^AT lid - aJd the latter three , as the name impiiee , they're investi- 

effects'n he h^oman Imune system. And then finally we come o 
^be ^.plications group and there are two subgroups there. T^.e f^rst two ^ 
^xL^inents having to do with applications pointed toward tae medical 
ISc ion and tS second two having to do with applications in the 
aaCriarslp^icessing direction. Could I have the first Vugraph again. 
n?i!«ef We cateROrized the applicatii>ns there, the last group of experi- 
^e^" beL^e tSr-re «ost'?iKoly. that is, directly or predo« 
^ntly applications. But in fact, there are sonse experiments which 
?/e5lapStht' scientific investigation and appliv ationa. An example 
or i^t ^ in the Earth environn^nt group, ^'-^'^^^l^';::^^ 
raeasureiaents, and the Fai-th observntione experiments - the 007 - 
n? Therh^ve overtones also in the applications area and so this 

vtLVnn i^ not any riKid thing. There is some overlap. And aa vo 
dt^cu^ fe rxp^riLntHnSlvliually' why we'll identify thes. thing.. 
Say let's atanVnow this will be with the third - Vugraph, pl.aseT 

This is our apace sciences group. And 1 gueas in the way of Jntro- 
ductifn 5 I ;ht JuL review very briefly for you what the ^e-r^t on of 
the universe 16, starting from home. We live on a planet, the 
vt.rnrv tt a kar the Stm. And the Sun ia one of approximately 100 
biuJorsilra ir a ^oiucUon called a galax;,. And an>ong these atara^ there 
u^ira^d^us ve^ tenuoua clouds of the stuff. And there are mUipie 

erwhtc^fom^ .diverse, ^^^f- -jr:rair:?'thes: ^ 

inten<is t^ inveatigate soac speciali/.ed aspects of all of these things 

that I Just mentioned. v*> ' n 4. ^ - 

- Interstellar mediu:n, and Itlls e^. fT/"'^ ^un. the ' ' 

distances as far avLy as the ed^' cf ^""^ f " ^= radiation from 

ordered the. here is'in order ol th^ ^rtL' ^^w' " 
object of our study lies; that is the jL^t . f " ^^"^ ^^^^ 
discussing, the yAOlQ, vhich is ^he soft ^ "Pe^iaent that ve are 
Into the universe to study th^ rl^l f- experiment looks deeDes^ 

vith three topics that il's - t^^ u^ri''^^-""'' tclullly 

- It has to do with the knov; fa t that 'h^"'-'"^' ^'^^ ''^^'^ '-Pic 
X-rays coming to us in what ve ha -e L^^ ^ 8^°^ of 

uniform or smooth distribution. cL.L tf ^^^^™ine only as a 

universe. We don't knov the so^-4Tb It tn-"' directions in the 

knov if they are individual disc;.f' 1 ^'^^ ^"'^'^^-^ • don'. 

tlttZTt re^so" ^TyrZ IV'-'' '^'-^ ^ — ^'^ 

instruments that have been able s^uiv .v- because all ti 

resolutions vhich have been *oo -"^r^^ ^° ^'^"'^ ^^^d angui 

vould be called discrete :ou;::s"'L u^:';i-^ '^"'^ - -^i- 
experiment problems that have p^eve-^.d I ^"^trumentat icn or 
the resolution of discrete sources -h^7 f"" ""^^^-^ on 
AS7P mission has hi^h^r avL-r Z - mstrumenv that ve have c. r h<. 
riovn before. And ^:"iu'h ^^'^^^ "^^^^ hav be"; 

entire celestial sphere to ""'^ fe?ne'^ "^^^^ ^^^^ 
background radiation *rul" / vnetner or not th^s 

sources o. vhether ve V^vS to "-^-"^ ^^cra "any small discrete 

this problem, it's one of he m'ol.'S^J ^tn. ^ ^""^''^^ ^efinuL of 
astronon;, at the present tire. ' * -^^Pies in soft X-ray 

the value of that resolution? 


^^^^^ V'^ have i4 

experiment. The problem is - the^ reaso'^'^-iv' resolution on the ASTP 

ve can get sillier as a m.^^r 'v^^" - «=^li«r - 

problem is that the intensity oJ liL? or 5 ' ^''^^ fanda.,ental 
encugn that ve have t. keep lhl\r^t. ° coding to us is lov 

reasonable length of time. Ve've^rW ! ^"^'^g^-^ to observe it in a 
-^tuff so you've got to play mr a^VLrf '^'^^ '^^'^^ ?he 

look at it. Ve could mkk^tS LeP-^'r ff ^ime you've got to 
a longer period of ti^e to observe a^ «f^\^ --^^li require 

vcu.d get less coverage over the sky! ^ direction, and so 

spacecraft? " experiment that requires a manned 


oppor - vhat it does'is;^ reoJ^J' * ^^^r.ei spacecraft, it 

or unmanned , of at least soJ Syr^'aticr ''r/^/^^ ^^"^ ' -^^-oT 

Oh and . .1.0 requires a ^^.1^^^^^ ^^^;^ ^^^^ a . 

t i<i.tu ratf.^r accurately 

you vould really have lo have a sP^^.ax ^.^.^ proper 

, • c ^«v«; Icrc. Five days of vnich 

GIUXl '^'^n^ r^Vlr'ai ab e ?o not of the experiments 

- v"ll. really ^ iays of vhich is .^is dees not oean 1-n .oin, to "ce tell in, ^^^\^^,^:^, be per.orned 
. continuous days of 3iae of the Earth; 

durin. the part of the --/.-^f^^^.^rtio-ns can be na.e . Ar.d so it 

night time only -ne o^^er exrerir.ent vill 

e dovn to the tota observ total data collection • 

abo.t - a little "^^^^ r/'^^J^.;^! \j u uill be in tvo nodes, 
U to 5 hours, son.elh..:g in=^ru.-ent is scanning acr^-ss 


me , 

cr.e i3 the scar. "^^^'-^ ' . ^"^V^^V/jtr-'oir . the first objective that e 
the celo.tial sphere m orier to be ^oin. pointing node where 

,ave outline i there ^^^^^^J. ^ that's ite.s - veil , J and 

vc- vill be lookin,-: at , the-e is a satellite in oruit 

, Item 2 has to do with tne ,,-3 callei lfr.u.-u, vhich 

nru. iVs an X-ray satelUte ^^-^^^ IV joint > operation, 
is Svahili for "freedo... - > serie. , SAf , launched at the 

one of '-he sr-all ^ ■ ^-^-^^^^y-^'^ 'tfriL And that satellite has the 
Sar. M.rco iaur.ching '.."J^;.,^^: m fact, it's been a fantastic 

capability of observing ^'^^^^'^f ^^^.^ti^ates X-rays in higher ener^.' 
satellite b-.t the vr.bler. is tnat .t in^ ^^^.^^^ energies of the 

regions only. Vnen ve tai<^ -he energies of the photons tnat 

Phct.ns rather than the vavexeng n . And -^,\.,,,i,,tronvolts. The 
'.o're talking about t'^^-.^.^f^^f t;," .:?:rning on AS7F , vill be looking at 
soft X-:-'^/ experiment vr.ich ve . - ^ ^Hgcovered by the Lthuru 
a cood nuizber of those sources f i;^,^f :^°f "^g.^vations by getting the 
!«f"vatc. But - vill be ;.he obs r / ^ 

«tTli' r But vill be compliment iug tne to a tonth 

uattfiXi-L. , eoninR dovn from <; Ktv ' 

soft lart of the w ccrresponda .i : roxlmately to lOO 

of a keV. B;; the vay , ^/f^^^ ^^^^g" „\em3 of vav«len,.th. N'ov nat ^ 
angstrotns If you are used to s^^a^ing ^^^^^ the core interest 

is one of the other objectives . is to J^^-^^'^ sateiiite. There is 
ng fources that have ^^f ^t/Z^JJt'^tt.^ed ther^"-t vhich is included lu 
aSlther objective vhich \f '%J;:.,^i^,'!ened to b.. at the present tir... 
your vriteup and that i^^^f L.^^ffenH :nly in regions bolov ^ ki 

yo ; :;-iteup and that ^Z^'TZ.^ ^nli In r.giU bolov . ..V. 

v.».»v sources vhich are iwic/n .0 e^-.-A- y^^^y. «r, thai thfty 

Srt"i;' ?h;;'are only soft X-ray -f^^^f^'J^ro^her' T^.ese vill 
Tere not discovered ^^^J- fJ^J^^ f,', tLent uhich - vhc^her - 1 don't 
further investigated ^.^f.^.l^a ornot but the fact i. Uue. l-h.s 

Knov if you've R^^-^^'-f ,'^^"/^^;*;"t X'^^^y eKF>eri«ent that hae bet^n 
vill be the most sensitive of any ^ fj^vn on rockets, san^ 

no^ .0 far. 7;,tinie%Br;\ype of mstr-unent de.i«a. 

instrament dc-sign - the - cont^t 

but b«c»u8« Of tun very United observation time, najnoly 15 m nutea, those 
exp*.p|»«ntii were of neceMarlly limited results and elao the Ir.atrument 
perforwnce had to be ccwpromieed conelderably because of that Urn ted 
Ume avtiUble for observat lor.. Finally. I mentioned there the int^r- 
BtellW aatter problem. It turnp out that a3 you go softer and •ofUr. 
vhlch aeans lover and lover energy in the X-ray spectrum, the radiation 
coulng to us from sources begins to shov the effects Of absorption by 
mterateUar nedia, lying between us and tne source that y^"*' • 

also Va« posiibllity exists that, the matter which overlies the region in 
the source where the X-ay photon vaa emitted In the first place. That 
is, at the location of the source itself, the X-ray »ay be emitted deep 
in the source and the overlying natter In the source had some absorption 
effect on the photons before H got out and finally got to; us . Nov the 
energy region that ve are investJgat lii^ on this experiment vlll help ua 
to distinguish between these tvc, choices vhether It is overlying mUor 
in the source or whether It is interstellar matter, .nd this viU help 
ui »o understand the physical mechanisms of emissions of X-rays from 
the various sources, being a'ole to make that dlsti.iction. 

SPEAXini Thio Job then, that shovs 01 to 02 ... thoee are 

bands, so to speak, that you to look at? 

Gmi So, they're not bands. I simply made those marks 

t.o indicate this - this graph on the - t.nat - end iff! not « graph, 
It'a <ust a little diagram that I have on the vriteup for the OlS^Sofv 
X-r&Y\xperlment, shovs that another experiment, which I'm Just about 
to start talking abcut . the 083 experiment, observes light vith energies 

Dcint 2 keV and less than the Uhui-u satellite that I referred to, 
observes light which - name the X-rays, which begins at 2 keV enl greater, 
i.-.d the MA0U8 exoerii-ent, which ve have Just talked about nov, c>vef\aP9 
both ends cf those energy ranges. The 01*8 actually goes up t-^ 10 ke\ and 
It overlaps, by abo^ii a terth of a keV, the energy range to be observed 
In this other exp^risent vhlch I'm going to talk about next. And the ■ 
purpose of diagram was siaply to indicate the Importance of Investl- 

betveen polr." 2 and 2 keV. That's partly vhat we've been talk ir.g 
about here, and 1 discuss it a little bit more here In the - in he 
vriteup. P^it It is not bands. The O'^a experiment observes continuously 
throughcut that energy range one tenth to 10 keV . and it does so In a 
•«ry interesting w>ty. It's a very fine instrument that - the instru.-:ient 
Is - It's something called a proportional counter, which you don «.^haye 
to understand but ^-ou've all ht ..-d of Geiger count ere . 1 m sure, is 
like a Oeiger counter but it Is operated at a iower voltage, where the 
Hpulses that vou ^et are cai^ble cf displaying spectral information; 
that Is, the electrical or voltage properties of the InEtru-nent arv« _ 
different when you operate them at a lever voltage. So, In function, it 
is a bit similar to a Gei^er counter but it has much more inform»t on- 
g-vir.g cap6bilitv. it's a much higher performing type of instr.ur.en.. 

Going on to the next experiment, 083, that is our e.:tre«e uUra- 
vioiet survey experiment. How, ve ar« geUlng in lovv.'r energy light I 
should have nentionea this, X-raya are light. Juat the light that we 
are - that our eyes are sensitive ta in this roco, and the fact Chat 
white light is illusalnating the screen. The only diatinttion, between - 
X-raya and the white light that we ar» teeing iHuainated froa the screen 
is their wavelength or the er.rgy that^jaeh parcel of light contains. The' 
most energetic light that we are going to H ot/servlng in - in the ASTP 
mission IS the X-ray. the soft X-ray ^xpert^ent that I mentioned to you. 
And it is partly for that reason that it o&i. see furthest, through t'.e 
universe. As we back off pn energy or Increase ovar wavelength *nd I - I 
ner.Moned that in the - in the vn-iteup, that energy ia inversely 
proportional to wavelengths. So you don't, Hve to ynderatand that too 
men. Rii as we back off into the extreme ultraviolet region of the 
epectrun the effects of interstellar oedivw, absorbing the radiation *hafs 
cctting to us new become rather serious. So serious, in fact, that there 
has never been an astronomical observation beyond our Sun in the extreme 
ul.ravlolet region. Pardon me. There have been attempts, there have been 
observations, but with no results. We have not been able t, observe any 
astronoaioal source in the extreme ultraviolet region of the spectrur.. 
yha rearon i.-, well, there are aotu-illy two reasons. One IS that our 
instronentation required for this has required a sens! tivity which v« have 
not been able to acquire until now. Tne other reason l» ihat i* was 
anticipMed, until Just a few years ago. that it would be fundom^-ntar v 
inpossibi. to observe in this wavelength region, under the assunption^hat 
the knov,, total amount of Interstellar r.ediun vas distributed homogeneously 
Brians -he stars. If that neaiua is distributed homogeneously, theS it ^ 

vv' J. ' sensitive instnunent because there 'just 

vo ...i.. t be light arriving here at all . So that until a few years age 
astroncners had concluded that this was one region of the spectrum th^* 
was Just fundamentally blocked fro« our investigation. In fact ^Se on^y 
region of the spoctrum that was s\inda:nentally blocked froa our investigation 

^nrL^f?f?'^ r*'' T '^^'^ astronomers discovered that the 

inters. ellar medium is not homogeneously distiibuted, but in fact is 

Hr^^tioir^J'*;. ? °^ ^""'^ l^'^S'. in certain 

directions, there is some probability that you vill be lookin.- between th.» 
aouas or aoong the clouds rather than through the clouds. So some 
directions viU definitely be very diffic^dt to look through in the 
extreme ultraviolet radiatio... Other directions ^ay allow ur to lock a. 
as 1000 l^.t Hdht-years. hundreds of light-years, perhaps as many 
«tif * ^-^^V^istance. there ..any types of 

-!ur!vr^ S we expe^ to be good emitters, or good sources Of extreme 
Ultraviolet radiation . .5o this is going to be, let's sav, the second 
good attempt at looking for extreme ultraviolet emitters". The first 
a.tenpt was niade by the sane people who are building this instrument . U 
was a racket experiment which had, fundamentally again a very Itw ' 
performance or very lcw capability a;;d it turned up nothirv. Wn^i it did 

^urn up ^ ^ ' 

;nnru«ent vh ch ^^«y Jl-l that do a ilf 

^}^^ before. AnVwe f/' «ore !!" /'^^^ ' vc noJ 

through th„ ^ *'*ve nin »h« ® ^'^isUIvb an 

b«*n open Ali th- ? l>ranchV; * ^"^"« 

Cf course ryl^ ^ ^''•^«8Ug<ited .v/^® *?^^'er ranrferT ^ ^^'^'-onoay 

f« that i,,;f *ut vf'-,, "aveie^. " ' " the etara 

" is P»ssel thri 1 !. '"""""S occurs "Jtravlolc. 

l'a.,Jp,„"f,\ -'"-0"3h soae vcr, ° focused ^ . ''"-y »l>allo/o; 

™ you gt„ „. , , 
f ch detector v. , J" ' ' ••■ t h,, ""'""o" 

'^"•^ fainting lnolu«'4^'-,'^7-">« 

the offset of the InBtrunent to the axes nf fh. 

an unknov,,. We're rather confide ? . «P*'^«"^«"aft that «ay be 

backup feature, ve put in iTltTk ZrZ'Xuo ' ^' ^ 

SPilAKER will th<« V- 

'''' ^••^ ^^"^^ ^"iy * th, joint phase? 

Joint phase, but only to aet thin^ ^ carried out before the 

viU be done afterwani!' Ct r'ue'^Uo'?' T^''''' obaer:at?:ns 

experiment i, an experiment vhich is ^eL. r 'J" "^^^ 
vho are putting the 083 experiment 1 Perfomed by the aaae peopu. 

-n^e 088 experlne.t. cal led^^eTl 1!^ ' ultraviolet «u?vej 

the extreme ultr.wlol.t reg on f '""/"^'■^r ' operates' r. 

here. They are not trying to ofcse^! spectrur.. But there la a tviat 
^'ork^r« and having the raliluoS o'''"''^ f^*""" ^^^^^^^ us and 

».edlu«. inatead. what they l^e in^e \ ilt i::^ ^'k^' interstellar 
In the Vicinity of cur aoUr sys em The -^rt ^"^«»-«tellar nedtua 

«r.d the density of the interstellar medf^ iTl^ '' ^"'^ tenperature 
system, Ar.d the vay they are to ' It 1^1^ ^^l-'' 
freq^enoies of extreme ul^raviole^l ^ht w ^^"^^i"'? '^o special 
and Which go outward beyona ol ; an f o.' I't''^'":'^"' ^^'^ ^'•-'^ 

hit the interstellar nediun. Z/lTe rcrie^^^iV't *f ^^^^-Har apace, 
nient on the ^STP ^tv^oecra- So tM. ^f ^^^^^^^^^ ' '^le inatr.i^ 
called a resident Scatter n« ex^JiLr vSe'r^'^J" ^or^otMr^ „hich is 
soiree is our Sun. KnovinAnw^, u ^ ^^8^^ - the light 

rrc« the Sun and theroS^^rVi'^' hcf^u^f lit^^'N' ^^^^^^^^ ^^ coding 
our experiiaent will give us a measure of J f ^^^iected back into 

cut there doing the reflecting Sorv^ereas T.e ml""'''''''' ""'''"^ 
t>y the ntcrstcllar medi,:n. the 088 experiment 2 V^^""^""*' hir^iere^ 
Is the interstellar oediiun, but not S \' , experiment. 

Just in the Vicinity of aoL? avs^L^ T^^ interstellar medium 
the X-r.:.- and the tJo ex^re«.e u^traJiol^; '^""^ ^^"-^^ experir.ents. 

look outside our solar systei^. ^^r^'-i^^hts are the ones vhiJh 

l^e next experiment is a study of our t./ 
our own Sun. And that is a ^oin* IxtLwLf^ .:^^^'^ ^'^^'^^ 
eclipse, :.1A11.8. Now. you'l<> l^l^ lfTl^Tt' ^^^iHcial solar 
And you all - just to review ^ yJ^lA^^^T^^t" '''"^ '"''^''^ 
one wishes to study the outer Tt^A!!! ! 7 ^'J^X they are useful, if 
-t a way of blockLg':h:'very " ^s r^!' t. flg^Je 

the Sun called the - we • ii cal 1 i t t h! the surface of 

^;ven the brightest part of th. at^jspW^'^j' ''^^^^ the - 

ral..ter than the radiation co^i^^J^'s ^ "iUlon tin:es 

CO. ng ^^^^^ 0/ r?e Sun ' so 'at '^'^'^"^^^ t.^e radiation 

vhat you have are things called coro^r^fh^ I Observatories, 

or . ,,,, ^^j::i':^/z:^i^^^ij;^i^^' 


llKht tends to scatter ra?her inuS^ iiif i^^fj ^-"^'^^^ becauae d*y- 
ln8tru«ent so that that fundLen aUy 1 mJt* ^v. ^'Z'^'''^^" - 
the disk that you can InveatWe ^* distance outward from 

is there eo.ev'ay we cai dH f ? ^^j::!^ then is . woU. 

a;;d that way get rid of the davli^hf^ ^ ^^'^ atwoephere 

the scattering of light ! of aJn -^ht'^^'"' P«-°^lea being 

an. Vu, sure! are aSa^e /sKy u2 ex'Lr^LSr ^1^^'''' ' " ' 

very elaborate Coronagra^h inBtruI«^TlM ^^'^^^^ haJ 80n« 

very elaborate observattS^s o^t^e ex eidr^'''?'''- ^'^^ "^^^^ 

at»08i>l,ere. The purpose o? this exDenlnf T^^""" '^1*'' 
vations In a 8i«p e Lhion wi hou^ eUh' ""^ to do corona obser- 

-ivantage of the fact thafthe^'^e tJo veM "^^j-^^^'^^^l^n but taking 
if youlook at it straighron is^erv rn,T.^ f.w" ' ^^ich. 

craft; that is. if ,,ou Jere to look a^ itV. ^t'^' ApoUo spaced 

rouni. So the idea here 1^ to uScrtJe ''^ ^^'^ very 

Soyuz spacecraa after the Soyv^rBoacec^Iff^H "^k'^^" fr«i the 

toward the Sun. Then the sp^ce r:? I'li'llV''^''''' 

toward the Sun. such that ^he apr'ren* dfll^ 5 Soyuz 
vIU get smaller and 8«aller aSfsmUer ^^^^ Bpacecra?t 
about 200 meters aep^ratior t?^ Aoon^ L l!"^^'^ " stance of 

2 solar diameters; t'hat a? iTvni l, ^ifl^'''''^ approximately 
Sun. Well, out to the front of r-e rL ^'^^^-^ the 

car^era and this viU be a Jer? s ^^if spacecraft will be lookir.g a 
nia Clicking away In a se^^'L 'o? li^^^^^^ no filters, Ju.t Kodaf 21,85 
tenth Of a second expoture'anrjoiL 0 V^^t'T'' "^''"'^"^ ^"^^^ « 

repeating the sequence over and o- to see If f P^^^''^ ^"d then 

observed in that fashion- nmelv il\ 1^^^^ corona caii be 

instrumentation or i^^c^^i^^^'^^ vithout expensive 

i^nng this experiment i8 that the ^Jrona i« " l^' '"^''^ motiye, for 

because there is an InterplS or intlr^^ ^ ^ver-changing thing, partly 
activity Which goes - o^Se^su^fLr^r ^^''^^'^ the 

a variable u has all t^p:! ^5^^'^^^^^ An the solar activity is 
«? :he basic ll-year cycle and ther^are an 1. t ' i sure you've heard 
posed on that. Veil, n 1975 n.e^e v^n-^ i '^^^^ff cycles euper- 

frcn space othe, than t:.e onj bn So th^^'' '^i*'- '"^^^^^ ^^^'^''^^tions 

corona observation is a unique ore in"t^f! k ' that each 

nature, then we have an o^p^r-un'*'v to 1? ^'^^^^ of its ever-changing 
rep^tiUon of the rkvlab L^m^;;;,' 1« '.ot Just a 

different corona. New the Xiet, in aid tic; t T^^^'' obeerJing a 
the Soy..z of the corona, thov vUl also hi \^ " Photographs from 

based observations of tre d sk the '"''"^ 
features. 1-y.en after the m ssioJ tYet J T""' ''''''''^ «'-^tivity 
correlate tne surface featurefv '-n l""^'^ ^^'^^'"^^ to attempt to 

to attain a correlation features that they observed 


Would you monitcr thi 

s activity with the 

oy\u TV? 

:>:J::r:Ma n^jiiT^ > - '.-^ .^r-nf 

this in reM time. There ia no statxonkeeping nov. This is not a ^^^^ 
BtatlonXeeping exerclae. What it is. ia tfat aa soon as the CdocklK. 
occurs the Soyuc goes into an attitude-hold maneuver, "ot a tl, J^^ 
y.u understnad that when the tvo spacecraft ^rTZcl^^Xl^.^o^XT 

t v crLr;^^'?' TT Okay. A3 BOo^a ve cK 

they crank theirs back on; the Apollo goes into a tvo-burn separaUon 
^neuv.r; and that's it. There's no stationkeeplng froHh n ! U ie 
strictly adrift and what they get is vhat they get But veLve - in our 
analysis of the situation, ve expect that the performance of t^e iJLTr 

««i V ^'"^''^ "'-''''"^ ^^^^^ trying .0 eyeball - 

say by trying to Joystick a maneuver V' trv'n/ta flv e/eoaii - cr 

a shfdcv on the Soyuz spacecraft. ' ''^'"^'^ appearance of 

tv^-^ ^^uisW .re -oln^tl'f 'f'^'v'' ^'^nstantly separating and 

t... .Russians are ^olng to have ta shoot fast, like in a hold position? 

th«t "^'^^'^ Well, that's correct. U'hat happens <b 

It 'l.a '"^^ '"-^"^ approximately 1 neter per^seccn* 

A ^.0 seconds duration from the time of undocklng. the ApoUo space^Ja- 

:"Jha: :LTt1:r:^n^^?S:o^rrfo1^!rt:^ra^"'^ ^^^^^n. 

Ue-y viU fi,.e to come in. And that's it. And then ther viH by the 
viU^be advised of this afternoon when Ken Young talks aboul the misDion 

SPEAKER Whiih came first, the exercise or the experiment or 

vas tne ex}.erircent laid on to the exercise? - tx,erimont or 

^^^""^ '^'^-'e experiment drove the exe; cist-. ?h>3 

exercise y.s not programed u:;til the E..-gestion vas made to do ^he 
exper lme'\>; . -^^ 

SPFAKEIi But the dedockir.g and redooking was? 


OIULI Oh, yo8. That 'a correct. But ihls separation 

business about 2i»0 eeoonds separating and 90 on, yee, that vas strictly 
a rtpecification laid on by th-? txperir.cnt. 

SPEAKER They'r« going to do it at - during the same time 

period that they have already slated the undocking and redogkinc to test, 
the docking uyBtetr;. Is that right? 

GiljLI That's correct. That's correct. 

SPEAKER WVtat is the rate Vefore the retrofiro? is the 

rate of the departure of Apollo frcn Scyuz? 

QjyLi They vill be separating at 1 iteter per second, Just a 

'iad more ''nan 1 reter per second. Yes. 

SPEAKER'a the Bar/^Tacturer of .he carcera ar.d cculd you 

describe the process by vhlch the filra information is developed by NASA 
and vill - in other vords go back dovn on the Scyuz . 

QjULx Yes. Your first question • the ansvor to your first 

Question is I don't kncv who oanufacfires the canera, it'd a Russian 
canera, it's not a standard caaera. It's a 50 by 50 nillineter foraat 
ard vith a variable exposure autor.^'. i sequencing feature. It vill use 
Kodak file. This is the only Western feature, you night say, on this. 
Thev vill develop the fiLt. Nov in addition to this, ve vill be taking 
-hct'graphv vith our data acquisition cacera. Fron the Apollo ve vill 
ac»-ial-v be locking back at the Soyuz , so that after the fact ve can 
recG-,s»ruct the history of the shadov aove^ent on the Soyiiz . So that in 
a backvard fashion ve can reconstruct what the translational errors r;g..t 
have been in our separation Bvaneuver. 

CFEAKER I>o you knov vhy it vaa a Kodak film ana not a Russian 


GIULl Nc , except that the Russians it. 

■SPEAKER Hov do you assess the probles of 'ii f f usion of light 

through the Jet gasses froE the ir.pulse syste-. attitude? Are you going to 
give it all your RC3 Jets7 

GiuLI Yes. That' J right. It cor-.plvtely inhibited - Well, 

pardon , nc , that's net right. We vill maintain attituie during the 
entire . separation . : . . } J].-/ : { \ 

SrEA.Ki:R Hov hre you going to take o\:t the fiux that's associated 

vith thht . . .? 


GIULI Well, what you're asking U hov are the Soviets going 

to take it out? And I don't knov. What it vlli mean is that it is Just 
a rundament&Uy difficult experiment to perform. In my opinion it's a 
very difficult experiment because they tire trying to lock in the outer 
corona, which is very, very faint and yet any residual atmosphere 
around the Apollo spacecraft will be brightly iHar.lnated by the disk 
radiation ■ 

SPEAKiM Plus there will be no ... but you are going to have 

attitude control? 

GIULI That's correct. That's correct. 

GPE^.KER You are going to have sor.e gaaaes ... 

SPEAKER Tom, are ycu then saying that because of the difficulty 

in the experinsent and what Al is saying about the problem from the gasses 
that it's very likely a worthless experiment as far as what the data is 
going to shew':' 

*^I'JLI Oh, i wouldn't eay that U'a very likely. We have not 

attempted to quantitatively assess what the probleos are. The Soviets 
feel that the likelihood for success is worth the effort. And so - and 
we are cooperating vith them completely to the extent that we are quite 
agreeable to performing the aaneuver. 

SFFAm '.re ycu doca-nent ing Jet firing and high-speed dam 

at all time? 


SPEAKER again was your time line on thie, was this after 

firet separation or second separatjon? 

OVy^l This is in c-.nnection with and after the first 

separatior. , tne first unlocking. 

SFEAKJ:^! What are the chunces durii-.g the drift of keeping the 

alinement of the two spacecraft in the Sun to the point of having a full 
360° corc:ia? 

GIULI The chSiT.oes - oh you mean in connection with trans- 

lational errors, which would block out one part of the corona? Wei;, 
we expect to be occulting the solar disk out to at least a lOO-meter 
separ&tion. And our calculations show that there is a 1-slgna probability 
that we will have that occulta' ion out all the way to 200 meters. Now, 
what this means is that, if the A}K>11o at 200 meters were to drift side- 
ways , it would not drift any more than tv.i solar diameters; that is, no 


part or the aoiar disk would be expoeed. Therefore, tho omxinium euoount 
of corona that would be lost In the other direction would be one »olar 
diaoeter. You vo>.ad have one aolar diameter occulted by the Apollo r.nd 
oiT* solar diameter would be going off into the corona. Sc, I guess that 
wo^^d be your answer - la that there Is a l-aigma probability that no 
lees than one solar dlametor of aolar corona will be visible in all 
dlrectiont^. Although t should tell you that the light bafflt, which the 
Soviets are uB^ijg on the cutaidti Qf the window of the Soyui, Is a - the 
design of tho baffle presents a vignetted image in the vertical direction 
partly in order to counteract the effect of an lllmilnated Earth coming 
into the optical path of the Soviet camera. So that, really their obser- 
vations are going to Ije eraphasizing that part of the solar corona, which 
will be on the other side of the Apollo spacecraft fro» the Earth as seen 
fro» the Soyu^, So, it will not be a nice, sywnetrioal iiaage of the 

SPEAiCEB We have one more question on this experisent and the.i 

press on. 

SPEAKER I see that - I believe that it's ycu as listed as 

coinvestigator fcr this experiment. 

^^^LI I'd the point of contact. I'm actually not a coinvest- 

igator and the arrangements with this experiment are a bit unique as 
opposed to me other four Joint experinents in that we aie not participating 
In the data analysic. At our option, after 1 year, we have the' capability 
to request that they seiii us thr original negativen. the original data 
negatives, that were taken on the Soy^n canera In case ve wish to do some 
analysis also. But primarily this is a Soviet exper iaeat , which is .Joint 
by virtue of the fact that ve are perfornir.g the spacecraft maneuvering. 

SPFAKER Okay. Well, I only mentioned that because y^ou are 

listed here as a coinvestigator , not a point of contact; you're on the 
colnvestigator list. And I'm Just following up Bruce's question. It 
strikes me that cur side doesn't seeo overly enthusiastic atout this 
experimei.t . 

GlVLl Well, that's - I - the enthu:jiasE is net really tart 

of our d.'scussiots because we have always recognized thi.«« hs 'i Soviet' 
interest; that is, it was their suggestion, their requo;U , v.Mch wf 
agreed to do and ve are sinply allrvir.g then to have at it. And sc , I 
oear., year assessment is - Well, our point is that, because v... have 
always regarded it as their , sinply have not paid attentio.i 
to the scientific aspects of it. Our attention hap been paii to the 
spacecraft performance aspects. 


^ ^8 t/)i3 aspect nr <» 

«cientl8tfl on thi. *«a«lne because 

SPEAKER ; "viets. ^. U vaa 

^-P--i«er.t that the BonltlY'^'^'-^ x>o« our . 

I '£3 soro-j say u 
tively little Inc ., ^'f^ 1^ a Soviet exoerf. 

^ther experiment. wVl,\''" -^'iJ br«ofr'' ^'^^ ^^oh 

■ ' ^^ite to ask 

i hoxd off urj.j2 
* a seconc:. vhat'a th. 

°r '^eteminiL fh» f ^•^^^'i^tion or tL IT ^^"'•^^ely difffc. 

^^^^^^ re;:.t.^^r^^'^^ --^st^ r^ter:? 

e. -«» ^ay detect, -ir"; - a-'i ^-xeroiae t,- - ' rav f rrm ^ • 

•'^enUor.ed . = ""^^'^^i^^ ^r.-^ -^^aTi »• ov. astro- 

^ fiot carry* - . " 

e.Wrorunent cf the spacecraft and Joi ?o auv tra ' '^'^f" ^'^ ^^^^^ ^^^^.1 
ray astronoffly experir.ants . This ia LI - ^^""^ future gama 

And I Just stuck it In the aBtrommv . v ^^^^^'^ >^*y scurcee. 

applications to astronony ""''^^"^'^ ^''^^P ^^^'^uae of tts eventual 


So you expect no meaningful dat^ 
Mot aclentific data. This is ... 
the value of the detectors. 

exercise, i should q!lall A-^Tr^lii: f^'f ^"^^truaentatiorv developffiort 
that is that on ApoUo 16 ^tid 17 i' ,-..f ^^^^^^^-^ent with another one and 
tne science there vas to he]p de* erm r . t'h! 'l'-''--'' 
8'arface layers of the ooon and ! feaical abundance of rhc 

on that .assion. Such that ncv^ Ld'^^'^' 

requires a bit further Invest '-RaUorTt^tr'ff "'^"^ '^'^ and It 

'-^^ it requires is ih^t \^Tt^T. T^^ 'J**--=tor. 
on short half-iife species, -hit tt ^^'^ radioactive activation 
bac.. ve have ,ot .rll^- ^^l^^ 'letoctor« get 
be havar^ the crev on recovery hard o^t t^^^f^^ /"^^ 

ano we're going to get then back t1 arllvsL i v'''^°^' ^oor 
vo can. If ve are successful in gerMn!- thLi'^f''^'^"^^^ "i^i^^^ly 
quickly, ve win be able to anl.fu'^-. ^^^ <3^'tectpr3 back very 
that cane b.ek on the t^.;^ ^Z^"^ ^l^^ «o.c of the ^.bigulty 
detectors on Apollo 17. So ^y^lTL : ^^"^ "^''^ «ith the 
It is a scientific motive in" ha" e.^eo'^ ^"^-^ -^P-- 

is sort cr cotspleti.g an inve tiga I lunf. ^ ''''^ ' 

begun in the Apollo series. * investigation, that vas 

Okay, the Earth environrao"* Ue / 
composit ion cf the Ear*h'/«?^": \ ^ ^"^"^ to investigate ih^ 
'^20 kilometer.. .Veed eJs to'^aT'ha" ^he'a'f ^^1^-^^^- 'itifade of 
at that altitude. If u vas ar -h,n ? ^^'^^phere is extreaelv tenu-^us 
BO higher teoause you o.r^Ti^^rtr^^ln^'t'' ' ^"'^--^^ ' - 
or It would reenter quickly. Bu. the Jac r'''?'^ ^" «.toosphere 
atmosphere at that altitude which is ' residual 
abaorption spectroscopy, we esje H -o br^M"^^"- '^'^ resonance 
ana again the temperature of tS!^..,;?.^! investigate th. 

neutral atomic oxv^ien ,,1 s,e_es of the atoospherf, nacei- 
a-:nic. This ^^^^^^^t^^^'^^r -lecaff-'but 
vnere we viii be sheet ir.g :igh, J^^f^?\^;^' experiaen. is one . 

t.r these tw. oxygen and n: ro'n S^tL ^ ^"^^''-^^^ vavelengti. 

have i:«unted retrorefleotcrs^^hat L '"^'-'^ v. vUi 

^, -hat is. corner cube reflectors of s^r^Uar 


Apollo spacecraft r«Q liao a reflecH'l Hck to the 

ehortnesB or time \o'^.y ^^^^^ ^- analyzed. 0ue to the 

Of vhat resonance abaorption snltroL^r ? f ^^ i-^^o » deacripticn 
it. but I Will b« very hap y ,n^;^^^^^ the Physlo| feblnd 

in Knowing vhat that i> afterward fi ^J Trtl^ 'M"' ^ in^«r«t.4 
anJ I vill go Into Just a Uttle bit r« ^ f^*""* feature of ihls, 
light. Which is reqiired! 8 very Jr^cLe 1/^'^ '^'^ '''^ -^-«i«^'«th of 
themselves Iri relation to the scLr^? ff tf^J"^ spacecraft 
there wiU be an apparent shift of t^f/ '' , ^ ^^^-^icientiy hi«h th.t 
relative to the at^ajhere whlcS l« V\ ^^P^ 
the la»pa In the ur^eeU^n of he crbiur^M ^« 
this is ju«t the plain ^ppLr aM 'e^f t" In 'fK"";;'"*'^- 
is coRethlng that I don't know if we all tiT I ?1 v^* I>0PPl«r shift 
are all avare of it. If vonvir >^1. v^"*^® but ve 

s--eet With a sir^ Jn/^;^t'^^^,^J^^^--<-- ^^^^^^^ down the 

Pitch la high and as'lt r^cels f L , \ tei\:T'''^ '''' 

«o^-* dovTi In pitch. That is known as the "n^i- ^ It a^'-'-'^ny 
that the vavelength of sound i^^his cl'e ^^^^7 ^'^ 
the wavelength of aoiuid 1^4*0^1 lS^ at^ut the ambulance, 

'.he ambulance. So in order ;o pJeven? ^hla'^f '""^J^."" between you ani 
wavelength from out of the ran«e o? rL'^ ^PPler shift froa moving the 
«P*ceeraft in parallel rather than enf or ""^Taf''' ^k" ^^^^'^ 
undock fro« the Soyuz and then siHt^ ^^o is 

direction {that is, shine the lifht J ^ the Soyus ar.j look In a 

vhlch ia perpenl;cui:i t" he oJbl al direct ''5 1^^" ^ airecti^n} 
So ifa a bit like flying in foSaM.r f ''^^ two apacecraft . 

tion type or flying b'Jaua as Cn ' a ''ve Ve ^i^^ ^'Z' '''''''''' 
agair.6t ur . ve decided to turn the t!w!! / ^Pf^^^ s^-ift working 

as ve are flying in forLtlo ^e w ll'b: dS n^an Nar.ely'. 
a controlled fashion reintroduces I tt.^i ^ oaneuver. which ir, 

Vhlch vill allow us '0 actual Iv Lt "^^"''^ ^^'^'^'^t. 

resonance line that ^lll be o nr ^hfaJL^'M ''"l the 
And by Obtaining the shape oflha't '.Le ^e'vU i .T^f' ^^f^Phe^o. 
the temperat'ore as well as the abundanJ^ of ^ detemine 

Altitude. I^af3 all I had to sl^^ ^1^^:^' '' 

vhlcht sorT:ft^^t^';^enat^^^L^^^ 

r-otive here is to try o d^vi ritim^l^ "^'^ -xperixaen. . And the 
term basla the aerosol cor tlj of helarth-r V - a ^ong- 

the lever regions of the atno pLr \nfri^ arr?L'f t"' ^'''^ 
troDosphere, but into the strBt,^cr,L 7 ^^^'niliai- with, tne 

Vhlch can Wind up if the\^! ^tosph r IT^^ll'^l ''^ ^^^^^^^ 
'-Me reason for the interest in the lero olf L ?h ^ ^^^^^^'^^^^ ^'^ 
the t.nperature balance in an at^o.rhe^e Jecausl ther'^'^'' ''''''' 
Of micron wavelength radi^t^on f ro^ Jhe S ^ 'J ' ^" ^'^^ ^tsorcera 

^>^» ir«ii bvj4. So '.hey do affect the 


*"adlatlon transfer- th 

''father characterlst[!«^ «*^:^'^*''^^' ^^i^h can n iv^ i ' wavelength 
Currently, t^lte'i^;,^^^^^^ ''^'^ effect 

^hins.:iU ttl ef?on hfrr'^r*^^ i>*^nSn thea<, things. 

■«'ere able to place 1 .f , in pUce of b«n^ * aiapie 

that vouia go ou f.? '^"'^^^ Photoa^fte? on an c^bu^ v« 

of launching the m ,^ , ? ' U vould save a Int !/. ^ ctntlnue to 

^-«rd the Sun «hf:eaTJ?e '^f '^^P^:' ^o^SW'f 

Sun as the line of w ^"^ensUy of Hcht^A^^^; Photojseter 

Of sight via go all th! ^ 8u.nrlse ani aphseora^t ^ \ '""^''^^^^^ the 

in Intensity at l S ^-'-ratoaphere . /Jd Je J i^ the 
^f you again' iL^tol^^rrifh-^^;-- ^ne ^^L: b S^o^'o*^'^ ^^^'^'^ 
^^•i attribute that to^L ' ''^''P'y aea^ure the f° "'"^gstroffis , 

the ^.t^oaphere at sILT'^^" aerosols. "^'jl'^*' ^'^^ intensity 

spacecraft. ^P^eecraft altitu.'e ana thra^^ospherl'l/r'"' 

dev. at\he^iJf.S'^? 'JrS':'"^ -pendent 136 ve are act 
observations effort, vhl^\ iff.^' ^« « fhoto«rarhL "^^''^^^-y looking 

cations reasons " 7 * ^^^^ *=«^ ^^ne for b-tv l^^^^ * vtsuHi 

little vrue^p that Ho ''''' various [opl i f^bf '^"^ ^^PP^'- 

exa.'aplt. in tL y^'^- B.^ , , „ covered i„ the 

the 6ov;..:ent Of SL'V'^f ^'^ ^-v^pa\:„::-':;f '^^^'^^^^ 

pat^r;rLrh:-?r„-^^ ;:a.^: ::r:^:- tj:v..., 

Effort. That- ; r,^, aL?/\'^'''''=^^^tiy-in .J^af^: f^'^ one or two 

•-ciore, this src)>i5B» c>«^, ^ . ai8cov"»r*>i 1 tnlngg 

seer., vhlch .^J^f^^^ ^bcut internal vaveg ir. .'-n! ' spacecraft cissions 

but Jhichio ^'"'""^ ^-^'^^ the spacec'a't 'ZT""'" ^"^'^^ vhich 
been ealtd^? Vn^ff-:,^^^ ---^a.'e tl^^^^TlJi^.^ vavelen,ths 

this. Ar.<:, Jf ei,4 ^ ^"'^^^ and theC t^',^'': '^^^ 

mission. There vin ^ system., vhich ve vH^L systems 

vili be deser-. investigations and or. °" -^^^ 


SPEAKER I would like tO ask a queation. 

REWND Can you valt till we get the mlket Vt're going to 

gel aU theae questions too on tape. 

SPEAKER What'fl the deal with using emulsions as opi-osed to 

vidfO? Vou have a lot of video apparatus in orbit. 

QIUIj Yefi, the emuleiona vo'ili have higher reeojutlon. The 

filre that wo use la selected for its wavelength senBltivity characteristics 
also. The nim will Just do a letter io\ , definitely a tetter Job. 

£;}>Fj\KER This oceanography roe^sureoer.t of lor.g-jeriod waves 

that you menticned. Would this oceanograpliy aeasureaents U oade over 
Polynesia? Because I ui-ierstand the Polynesian so-eailed secret way of 
navigation is to use those long-peilod waves* 

GIULI Frankly, I don't believe that there Is ariy coordination 

in th'it respect. Nov I vould be extreaely surprised if those waves that 
ve are talking about here were at all knc") to the Polynesians. TJ-^ese 
are things, which are not viewable fvoa surface areas. You really have 
TO go up into c-rbit and get the big view, and with the proper lighting 

SPEAKER They navigate with the stars and they ire said to up.- 

these kind of waves that no one else knows about. I was vsndering If 
you were correlating these oceanography ceasorenent over Polynesia. 

Ql[}ll I actually don't knew the individual sites they are 

selecting for this because they are transient In nature. Such that you 
carnQt dependably predict where these are going to be. Ir. fact, you can 
fly over a site &nZ observe theiE and at sose ether tine fly over the 
same site sone days Inter in the missicn, for exaaple, and they might 
not be there. Sc this is going to be partly target of opj-jrt unity and 
paray they will be locking where they discovered theo before on c^kylab. 
I don't know if the sites v:re observed before on Skylab vers over 
Polynesia or not. 

SPEAKER Wiat is the largest one of these waves that has been 

seen so far? 

GIULI By vav»-, I act ce an wave patters. From above, 

it looks like waves, which you would c"-'. just by dropping a stone in a 
pond where vou have vave after wave and they extend outvara often in 
conjunc-tion'vith islands and often in ccr.Junction with the wind pattern 
associated vith the island, such as on the leevard side of the islande, 
Nov the vavelength can be kiloneter^, if that is ycu were vonderin^, 
and the wave pattern .tself h-oivireds of kilOKC'ers. 


^afs right. 

observatlona - . 


e-st on that? 


SPEAKER p„ J,- ^ 

oest person to ccnUcr .^^^^-is on theci and 


H«-eibla^. handheld?'' ^'^^^^^ th.y «ofng to use? 

' ' • .... > 1- fi^M f ,n . 

«xperUi«r»u. H#r« «kr« golnf to •wjVaally look i&to thf int*rior of 
th« iSftrtb belov th« •virf«c« , but not v»ry f«r. 4u»t into th« interior, 
vKlch It ^<m» hundrtla of kUcmeW/* 4e»p, to l^xA for viwriatlona 
in MIS concentration. Thii hti to 4o with tht ratht- rectntly 4evelop«a 
v«ctonic plate hypoth«i«t for the itrueturt of th« •urf«c» rtgions of tht 
Earth, th« conttn«nV4l drift. An4 it to 4r vtth the folloviniE 
problem. If you v^t %Q 4et»r«ilnt vwri«tion« ^, ^'isity <»t mu m^*e 
th« »urf«c« of th9 Earth, you o*n do tfett with a »urf»c« grftvi^itry 
mktn^j ««fteur«i«r>t» vith very delt«»te ln»tr«««r\t» Just on foe grouni 
senllng out survey partUs. But qnly for rtglona of aay. 5f to 100 
kllaneter* in l«niiih. And then th« r«qulr«w»nt« o«i leosttivlty iwre «o 
gr«st thftt, In trying to corr«latt thft r««uU» ov«r great ai«t&nv'«s» 
'h« error* that develop in your experimental »etho^i <jverv«i«h the 
«*all Beaeureaei.t* that you get and to you <!«n't ««t any resolution >. 
or aj^y. let 'I say, «cale sizes greater th«i, say 50 to 100 XHoeeters. 
On the other side, you can send up a etngle satelMte and vatch t^e 
gravitational perturbations In lt« orbit. Thla J« 'isefui for detsnaining 
density variations vhlch are say 210O0J or 3000 kilcweters in size or 
greHter. The problw is that for the studies that ve nov vish to do, 
investigating the t«ctonlc weight hypothesis, v»> ne«l resolition on 
♦ he order of say 100 to 1000 Ktloaie tern. And so th* teehi»$<iye nov Is 
to try to find a sore sensitive v&y to neasure the gravitation per* 
turbations at the orbital altitudes of the spacecraft. An<l the »or«9 
sensitive way that we plan to do it if to taka two vehieUs and watch 
again for very eraall Doppler Rotiona between the vehicles a* one 
vehicle preceding the other vehicle in orbit goes into <^ne of the areas 
of small gravitational perturbation, And then it's follovel In by the 
other one and then the first one co<a*8 out and then the second one 
coaee cut. These are very, very small aotlons and the accuracy of the 
oeasureisent required i a very high? r^aisely , the accuracy to get - required 
to do there - the highest resolution features of these experiments is 
to be able to detect Doppler laotionf on the order of a fraction t^t a 
millimeter per seconil; very high ac?Ui*aoy. Now the-reticaily this la 
possible, and the ASTP objective is going to test thtt hypoth^sja mi 
8ee if ve can really do it. This is sort of nn tn$truaer.tation levelop- 
nvfnt effort in the sense that ve are comparing two techniques, the 
first technique is experiment 089, wti^erein ve viXl vse the locking 
nodule as the other vehicle. We viXl Jettison the 4';cklhg aodile a day 
before ve reenter, separate frooj it tc a dlstarvee of ^bout 300 kilo- 
ne'cers. una then have the docking aodale trarjfwlt tc the comand aoiule 
in a very stable frequency aode and Reasure the shifts and frequency 
to measure the Doppler effect . 

The ttiier experiment is the experiment 1?8 vhich will io the sajste 
thing but using the ATS . contauni cat ions satellite as the other vehicle. 
Nov the difference in me tvo techniques is that the . in the first 
exjierinent, the docking raodile and the ccxmaml module are in the 8aj« 


orbit but simply separated. An-i In the second exoerinent tho 4 

cations sutellite is In a goo.tationary orbit vMcT s ao'oJS ~'o^ " 
20 000 miles n a^ltitude and is stationary relative to a given poluio. 
on Lai't.i jmd the command nodule vill fly underneath it lo Vl ?f V 

two techniques «ight be Next r:,r«ph ^leL ' 
SPEAKER Tom, ve're getting almost to . .. 

quicker on - on this slide 40 I'll - spe^d if uVLff ^ ° 

there .re, re.Uy - i„ the life soienco. tSre . e questi ^rt^'be 
a^^Ked. There are tvo subgroups vhi<?h I've i-i^M^-^^/iJ f^J 

you're fanilieir vith th» tw^* i. » ^ ^neir eyes, and I aasuac 

01 astronauts' ev^s JipniaViv »<U ».-pact the retinas 

lnUr.p«r.M betv^en Iny.r. of ,orJ.t live i 

brint* shrimp, a^ois ,,r t^i.-ints. %n5 -^^ ■r-^-^ . : ^'^ 

a.?f,r the taisslon they are tr.,jrtur<«,l or cultured itr^-v,, ri^^*^ 

'-^li. . am to i^temine which vere irapActeiJ anJi which 


GltiLI No Vo \ I 

«"ong the various tyixin'of mlciXr T^"^ ^° determine the interplay 
exan>ple. Russian germs and 2^eHcan ^e^^^ «ee we've never had. J 
nent and ve don't know if that f«^f ^? together in a space environ- 
another typ« grows or - or - iuL 'l''^ '^'^^^^ ^^^"^ 

experi.enta have been liXe wi^h IJ^T: ' , ^^-'-o 

13 Just a more general set of InitLl c^rc,^^^^^^^^^ «o this 

RED::oNI) Peter. 

■ Do you have reason to beu'e^'t ^/^^^^^^ °" ^^^^ ^''--^ to - to study - 
dirrorent in character than thosi in t™ iort J . -"vlroa.ent aie 

tne North J^er lean enviroiraent7 

cr^b?"^^^ - <^rrect or .pa.:e - 

crobes in general. And Jet me e^^i ''^ growth of ni- 

a Situation as poe^ble. Ve .ouT^'not l^^l^l^Jl',]:''' ''' ^' g^neJai , 
circa-nstance because 6ur lab&ratr>ri.«\, ■^'^ S*""^^ a gen6>-ai 

towar.d Whatever alcrob.s are av^n^K undoubtedly be orientol 

>^^'ve get Just a fantastirorpL u'uv^? «f ? ^"'^^ locatior. Here 
the v,rld. Ves. opportunity of mixing the.-, up froo all oTor 

Kmmv Alien. 
PPEAKKR Will fv,« 

^ituati,-. That l^'-'^Je'n.buLrti'on^tio'd^;* ^"^-^-^ 
I believe not. Discussions hav/w„ 1?!^°'^ ^^^5^5^^ '^bout? 

results are thai they are ! -^IV .f" that ani I b<?iieve thl 

one as we are. And ! Sit I ^^li^Ve ^^^If/.l^'^i''^^^ ^oirr h Le 
the driver's seat on that ^I^t^f ^ ---^1?!-^ 


th. true value of having 1o nt^.xLrL. ' '^-^^^ i-^ 

those, we ... ^ Rp vt .n« at s vith exception of 

bpacrart, for ejcanple? 

SPEAKER Yes T u * 

SPEAKEM Well r ^ 

had a Chance to «o mJiig tMrnaf:;Lrj5%^^^%^^"« ^ 't 
othera .-.ere they didn't h;,ve to . ^ ^-'ndered If there were 

only Joint experiments that vp J? 'l' " they're not. The 

A^=5TP mission Jhat re^jul'L the fj^^'^ unique feature o? the 
^^nlng like this. ^ two spacecraft or the tvo crews or some. 

p«t 1., the ex.oerl^e^rX'iai'd^': ^jr^fT '^l- 
does req-alre the partlclpatiorJ^^f J - U's a vaii^ . jj' 

the tv. crev. ani^Th. tCrspac.'r.ft "^'^ "'^^ ^ ^-^"^ without 

i^rid^KKR And ->n V. 

™" Oh,,„. Ev,r to 


that sort Of in ^ J^^^-^^^ T vo.Ktn't r.«.ny p.t 

a bS^ vanity. • - ^^'^^•^ - that', true ntri there 

' ' «^''^'-'« '•-«^'lt. Of the.. . 

ie that the Soru viU b« dLr^H . spacecraft. The rea«,n 

poa.ibi. after they'-,, tctrtiin.'^'' inbcratorle. ju«t quietly 

SPEAKER When ve get to cryutal growth, there was an article 

in - In Science a few weeks ago by Arthur Robinaon and he says that 
NASA and Skylab and crystal growth has - has been tryl ig to grow cryatala 
in apace the sane way they're done on the ground, the only difference 
being the lack of gravity aiid they've shown that it can be done. Bnt 
he says that until NASA chows some way to do them better in space and 
more easily In space that crystal growing will Just be fanciful specu- 
lation cn NAt;A'3 part. Ii there anything in this Soyuz-Apollo mission 
that's going to be different from vhat we did before? 

^^^^^ '"'t'll, yes. Now this - this crystal growth experi- 

ment - the low-temperature one, the ilea here is that you cannot grow 
usefully larfl;e ones on the ground. And the idea here is grow a big 
one, one that you ca;! actually cut up and put Into electronic devices. 
So that's not fanciful, that is definitely pointed toward trying to get 
something that will - technologically useful. The other oneB, in the 
furnace saraplos, agiin, crystals were grown of a - with a purity that 
was never attained on Earth. I - I guess I don't understand vour state- 
ment . 


You want ae to read th4t last paragraph? 
Well. nc. Let's do it afterward attd * - 
You can't afford ... .buttle anyway ... 

Q^"^^ Vofc, this is all for Shuttle application. But 

nothing fanciful about it. I saade - let's talk about it afterward*. 

mx^OHH Okaj , JuBt one brief note. I'a told that the main 

cafeteria, if you want to eat over there, la swamped with 10 000 people, 
So if you want to eat in the cafeteria, use the one behind &jilding 30. 
And the start of the next briefing has been slipped to 1 j .n., that 
will be ASTP Karlware with Gene Cernan. I'm sorry, 1:15. 

Kni of IVanscript ior. 

t'EWiW You knov la 

he'U prcbabjy ;n Help TvUh [h * 

I <lon't VHnt L i 31 '^>Ui4 like to »'/'Hn thif . But 

th. Utter u LVl''"'^'* *"'^ JoinTcorre^UvfM * ^^^^•^^i^ 
that's coding ;r qn i"*^'^"«-^''-^<'-^?^"'theyV^^ y^^"' 

^^-sllUr V th th?« '^"^ ^"""^ nov. £ Joi!'^^^^^ ^^^«"C^ 

oi^i ?^*4;:,^,f^^^?*/ iv^bv'^o^rr^M' 

going to be Tellf u^.Tl .*' are &U famn ' , ' 

th«; vfir"? r\he^' ^ '^-'^ ^^'"t:io*j*.tt' 

P^-ty o, for the n.l.^ZV:''' ^^^^^ ^rfLie::, 
t*- ^^c^phone.^''^ ^«-«tion on the tap.. ^^^^ 

i» vith the enMre st !^J* ^i^is? ^ie obvi v > 

Af^llo coir,^/:'d^ together in Ju v Sf« 

»n<i :'U Ton '^^^^ »-Ie»'t here ^h'l:*, f "^•'^^y. got the 

mdule B %.,i?f IT «odificHtionTof ,f * ««rvice module 

. "='«2JP3 fJ^J ''^'i ih A " tint, ''^y h«J 

*tkr. J^' About Q^'^ ^ho««' ^'''"^ Of -^f' V/,., ''^eb ' •"'^'^''^ 

"^-^-^ ^ 

-•• trj^v ^ -'Out yv^ '-^ienft '^^^ , ^' '^'-■ojffti„ , ' u, '■■'irn- 

'oi:;'^^^'*-. Anf ' ^-o/ '-^ L .'' ^'^k; J^^' ?^..v 

^ft fly 

fomlni! fungi, l« U itudy th« tffJtruporcJlU f*""*" 
growing una vhioh «h»r»cterIni'«alC fcm h!!. f. 

•ffect of m l«mct b/a cha«ii JiLf« they grov. An4 the 

* caution wKtT;u^4:v:?o7 oTrfM^iyri?.^.'" r*' 

$%Qm in « vilter tna weiM th« v4v«rL Lt^^^.^ ^'i ^^^^f dropping a 

last three exp«rljs«nts we rtaUy cne exceriaent. ThrMA^l livia 

t^it th«y have 8*parat« experiment n^mUvs because therirl r/i! I ' 
fome4 in Uboratorie* other than our ovn vf!tch le vSLJ ^hl iR^f f* 
being located and it ha* to do vith thu fJi rf- ^^'•'re the AJ?002 i» 

the surviving microbe trpee ttHJ niJl^I^? 'i-'ereaee vhereas. of 

SO this is a tvo-pronged e^JerU^ ! rtrt^" ^f^^JJ^" 

•pace fii^jht on the aMlity 6f alcr^^bert^ f«^? Jn«mine the effect of 

ia to ietaraine the effiM J - K ? l^^^'-'VhwanB ; the other 

infection^ e^ace flLSfconluL^* 'l.^'T^ "^''^^ '-^^^"^ 

Bic-robe aftfflBl*»« „i i > vl \ «*^rcce saapJes ana blood saiupieB, me 

SPEAKER WouU anything ... 

iUSWONLi Veil Rrfl vMi t..,;^ 

.oin« to .-y to ^^^^n^JS:^^.r^l^^^T ^■^•'•^ 
better in space? r seen is thai - - Anerlcnr. gems can survive 


«ai thU U«*T "'^^ **** expeflwriUre be with SovUu during 

i« v.?Jl!\^ V . ^•'■y cooplete. It's . Yes. 

in both Ubomor 06. both - That ia. two .et» of laboratories, tw- 
Bf^X^ Of experiM^ntarf . Joint exchwi^^, . v.ry co«pUt« coc^eratlon, 

. Okay. Nov, In th« *PpUc«tion$, a«ftin we hav« tui 

fubgroupiJ the first on* Hln« ««4ical%pUcaUonr^ th/firertio 

eepctration of llv* cells, dii'f«rent typ«» of c«lj8. By u$itw a little 
cells have different amount* of negative surface charge ao that if v^! 

the eu^tr fflif^'n^^'^^ «o«« «r# being p«,hed harder th«. other, by 
the eieotri(? field. One doe* thla in ca«see where >.echnlque8. auch a/ 

r !r;t:VH"J!"'^f}l "^^'^ ^^'•^ ^^'^ vanou. ri'ior' h" 

eliotrnS^iLJrl*^^.'^^'''^* lrv M*e vTlUw. We're doing two typea of 
6tH?lIn^v Jui; ■f '^r* takee a column of buffer aol. lion, of 
ti« l?2;riJ tn«erta the .aaple at one end. appUoJ 

I?tor I tfif fj''"« the length 0f the ooluain . and then Sat wait, 

attor a tine And the cHle viu travel #vn the oolwn «t different 
•peede according to their different types, and afterrceKaiti a^mmt 

J ::;n'^\T!"fhr^>,'^ separate effl^rhuV. th^e'eolM: 'J r I'tr' 
> JT - on experiment which is being 

^nu" is "t"fr ^r*^"^*'' *^ the MarabaU Space FligU^ 

tenter. Th^ ctner one is a Oertian experi«ent. the 01 Can d it uaes the 

elLl^r flowing a^id^Je .a^Jj: of 

live cells inserted continuoMsly into this flowing atrean. 'n.«n you 
apply the e ootric field perpendicularly to the colwnt^^t Ton/lt 
but perf^ndicularly. so the ceiU in the na«pl« wtlf fan out r. ? n 

hev^;?ir the tube. Sith the .With the so ution 

they Will - they will fan out and separate transversely froo each othi? 
Then they can be collected or measured at the other end of^he col^ 
Now the reason why wo bothered to do this in .pace is because this 
technique is very, very sensitive to convection currents , which are 
eithe.' by heating ei'feots or by aedlr;entation effects on the v 
very difficult to do these things in the laboratory . Se great' -'ere^t 
in doing electrophoresie at all is because so.'.e very usef^froed caUv 
^ITI' "^'^^"L'"" ^^01^^^^ by - well. I VH, abo:n to say tv n^ ^ Jer 
technique. That isn't quite true. But by techniques which are so ex 
pensive, and at limited perforoanco at best . that they a^e hontr! tr' 

which in mature space applications cculd be medically use^ut None oJ 

SPSAKSl On th9 OU, you're going to use « diff«r«rit field 

fiux for »4apX*«, rightt A higher fiefd fiux tor » 8a»pU? 

RECHOMP On the 01^ exporio«%w you'll b« uaina fr«ii. »^ 

in xh* .mrtni eUQtrophoretio aobilitii.^ In the diffmnt Jlaju*. 
tnen?^^**^ ^'^^'^i ^"iy the SRapl.. an4 not th« voUa«« 

Omi That's right. Okay. You w»uit «» to luat eav a 

couple vDr4$ then about ajateriUs - / ^ ^ * 

SPKAKER About the - - 

. V ?^v^ V, '-i^teriaU processing. VtU , you - you knrv 

literu i ' J* *i«jf'»« of prootsfing «cphi5tir«at«<i typet of* 

BJterUlB, especially those u»«d in eioctronics indu«trv in induatrH^ 
situHtionr on the Earth, Itif first exparlisent . the Oio', w r . lu T' 
>arn«oe where different aateriaU vill be ^eltei and re^^Ud Hel and 
nvest uatei. The Uot txperiatent is to try to grew pure crysUU Sci 
in a high-tmperature environnent such a« a furnace bSt In l lov- 
temperature environment. Siaply at rooa temperature in this case 
apacecraft temperature, allcving rea.tanta tfdlf fuse toward H h other 
thro-a«n pure water vithout the disturbing effocts. a«air., of ledlJr^a 
Ittt Of different d«nsiu^?'^^''4:? ."^j;;* 

that 028 experi^ient has applications also for the electronics i duaJrv 
n trying to crov pure crystals of things such as leaHumde whicJ 
Is very valuable for the eleetronics industry. Sorry for UiL; oJitS 

SreAKEH Can ve - can ve get something on the recordr 

R&H!ON'D Okay, one question. 

Houston, T«xaf 
re\?ruary 2C, 19U 

Participants; ,,.,„^„t 
Mm R.i;. Public Affalv« Office 

PC 11 

«raix Hi*.'; ^^r Tvei^ sIu portion of ^''^^'^tru .dl^ 5« thr«.. 

- I't' thin.'. v« hav* '^^"^ f ltdl'i ' 

U'^^e"^'' t^tjgut, tnte. ^ j» the saiB© vehicle 

<t =- to us it W(»'Ui=4 " ^ KTviaes their pr<Jf«"* j^"'** , 

Sir nlln en..ln.e; it bouse« the r ^JP«J^^\, ,neir ««^in V^tteriee . 

that "this la mi nXinfmni docliina t«r«*t thfti they cftn nWrna with 
ihHr iwrUcopt. Thoy ««nnoi 8e« forvard owt of tb«lr »tt«««oriirt through 
any ftVdtUMe wloaov^. Hfje oiay v«y they cwi i«* forvard U throuj^ 
Yl»u»liy f0rv8r4 ii throui^ ♦.hfir m\990f«. An4 thoy, In turu. iv»v9 
a docking targH rif^t h«re on th» top of th«lr •i*c««ran thai ve «an 
aadrefla out th» coBaan-ier'a wlndov very RU<jh fiSBei vt^y ueo the docking 
targets 00 the IJ4. ThlB l» their p#ri««'?$!«, by the vayi l vne pointing 
here. Here It their p«rl«cope, ri^x here. It ^owjs out of the deeeent 
vehicle on thie Jettison for l«un<fh, Ka<i tney have verious sensore, 
horison eenaori, and varloua thraetere located along the several axee of 
the spacecraft, but 1 think ve can go into that and see that ssore clearly 
as ve take the spacecraft piece by piece. Anyone have any «iue»tlonaf 

BENEDICT Oil the descent aoduU, do thry also ride Into space in 
the descent ewdulei RI«ht int 

Cimf^ Ve». They launch, they aqtuftUy get on the pa'^ vhen this 
is upri^t. They actuaily get In a hatch throu^ - there are no hatches 
in this descent vehicle, except the hatch between the descent vehicle 
an.i the orbital module. That vould be like our tynnel hatch. They 
gel in the si«ieecrafi on the pad throug^i thi* hatch right here which, 
by the vtty, if you renesber a long time when they docked to Soymt and 
they vent B\'A arid trans f»jr red between the two vehicles, it's the saiae 
hatch that they transferred throu^. They get in on the pad. in the 
orbital nodule, go down through the hatch Into the descent vehlclt, 
strap in and they cloae this hatch and, of cowsc, they close this 
hatcl , so their egress node on the pad is out throu^ that hatch and 
cut through this hatch. Tea? 

CRA-''iER For a pad abort, does the vhoie spacecraft com off the 
rocket , or jut^t the top two cwdules? 

CEFWJi Yes, the whole - their pad or infli«t»t abort during 
launch, best of »y knowledge, understanding la that the whole 
spacecrafi , the whole ehroud, pviils the vhole thin^, shroud and all, 
l^e launch abort tower is basically attached to the shruuil, net the 
spacecraft. Like in our case, we are tieJ to the si^^ceoraft. Ih^jy're 
tied to the shroud. And what they do is separate from the boosier 
here and pall the w>jole thing off. Then the shryu 1 , the tv.Vfr 
and shroud and then they havi , Juk'. like In their r.«3nrial entrj , 
they have almost sinultaneous separation betwee:, theae tw,> vehicles 
righit here, the orbital laodule and iU>3cer.r vehicli-, nni betvuen the 
descent vehicle and the instm'jsnt vehicle. 

SPEAKER The docking module that saw at the Cape looked quite 
a bit different than that. U didrs't have those covers over the oxygen 
bottles aa is that the way it is going to look? 


CEPNAN TT.ey lire about 3 neters . Cfo* the am^face. 

SPEAKER Controlled barca^^trical iy , tenui^Ui-, hcv: 

CERVAJf -'ov they ha'.-e an srtiw «»* r-**. uK-f, - J . 
tails, but it is an active senso, n l ♦ * ' ""^ ^^^^ 

but it is .n a, tive sensor. Sc i. a JJ^b.^^^T ''?f ' ' 
I saii, I can fi.a that one oji ilo SMT ^i''^^' * ""'^ 

some of these ar.^vers I ac' .ri^n!" T ^ qu»»*ion«s but 

Bu'. it is an active "°oia;^ ''^ ^l'-'^- 

the entire operatior. v^rv qr^'Lj t "^.f" ^^'^ 

•-his, but very quici^^/- l^eJ -^^ ^ ^ "-''^l* of 

rection nar.euvera. .hasin. w.e4rs fcr "vl= ^ p^'^l^'-'*--*'''"- 
nonunally zero. E-rt?n if ?h.*^,. ^^v,^* *' ^ P^rtortz. .n:ey are 

ca^bili(y because^: iL^l P-^^ty centric, v. hav. t,. 

ticuiar vehicle to reni^JoS. vfKJr ^eSot ^l^T'' ''' "^'^ 
they eet into. Seven and a hllf ho-S, Uter jl^j! f " 

Joint activities, and Tick Truly f.. ^.ry^ vr ;! 

on that. We vii: , then r>r. ♦ho f>^J'"t . 'I ^ ' ^ ' ''"fiiiovn 

be active, in other vord^! aM I 'ft f^f .^'''^'^ '''^ ^^^^ 

you by* ve Vlll go on to a passive c-c>ft?iition vlih our L^v- 
and they viil go active. However, ve atlif ii ^tl '^''^ T 

spacecraft. ,\n-i lu^te ai^-r.:-/ it%, v. the mr. , ring 

have the prcpellant^o sj^re Ll^'f^'- '^^^^ '^^^ '^^^^ ' 


6o on from p«>rh4ps 3 .-^we {n» V J: • " ^^Jil 

one being tr^-^^ln, the^ r».1uie .Her v.'.^Srue Jr-^ 
a:)d night before .^ur final. r«*«n»fy. ? ^^J, va- ? !L '! 

■ s day 

about an thift flluff - : ■•- "y 


Hext one, pie*s<i. nRay . Here the actual h<*-^vare n-v v. . 

i^r .tv:;^:" "^^-^^ ^'^''^'^ «*u/i;trh":\h 

Jot of iH?«.rte sav 'V« i*^ ^'^ ''^ ««^ J<^t. r» a^*in |«V ^hia: A 

about. But Ui 

^^^l have tavpn "ose '7 syster'tec ' ""^'^^ «-ve us 

-^^":^/rf3r -----v^" 

»^^^tly. ^ 5»* '^■uch lUe7 ^""'^ *-^tir sn« ^ "^^^ 

^•"JeSr flrti^ ■* *^^^t>itai n-,?,.i„ ^^'-'-''s. I'm „ : spacecraft,, th^ 

have * vo vni\ <JockecI, t?n« -r 

-«sonf ' ,^"^c coM^ ^r^^'A: c^;;^! one Of 

■^'•■"-her is err* ProrelUr. J; ^ stacV a f service 3t " ^--^thorlty 'r\t^,^'^°" available f'^" ''-^^^^ is 

^erelst. " """^^ So- 

C-^-.^fA.'- in^he 
"^■^ ex;.u; vhir^'Tr ^''''^ ask a . " ^ ^^^^^^^S module? 

ran eirij. . here, have * ,\ ^ ^-'^^'J^ it 

dies . .. ,v . " Probablv «1 * Vehicly fK^t 

very ^r^, ll^^l^'^^ ^h^'"i:^:a:Ln?'^u!^ ^'^-^-^-rin^l.l^-^ ^ 
-"u/inlr* K< ^'i^h tiv- ' °i these tv> ...-t^, '*?re. T)jp, 

cut tKt ^ srpp V^^" '^dule. vehicles togetht" 

? here. This °^^^"« aadule- > have an.,fK 

""IS Is a tunr»i K hatch no -s ! '"Jother haMh 

■^ne. between vhere ^' '^^'^ *hefe i« . . " 

-©noiw ays t eft, 

'Jocks: fh 

" '^'^^^ i/ti e^*-- t^i^^^^^e .e,ui.e. 

/ou have "'^ ^n-i ve m 5 "hat ^7 ° ^irearfy ~ P^ela^^^oh 

v,!».* I ^onsldflv.,! ' without .K ev*.- ^, t^Jfie? 

^^•■^ to riv that 

'lor.'t believe you vill ever fly u vith 

It vuh more than tvo r^n 

J^PEA^KEP Marybeth? 

SPEAKER Gene i^n't ^ 
raot that thi. is s.'.ppose ill '^^"^^ th^ vi.. of th 

strating „s=„e= ""^ ' '""S ou.- guys tac., vf^ Le JSi'd^^i,.. 

o^^^- I think, yes vpq ^ , * ^ ^^^^ Yon varit to m*.,. 

a rescue systen a.d l 'have h:/'"''^' "'^'^^ ^'^^ ^^P^MiHy [0 5.^^'' 

technieai differences of deveioMr ""'^^ ^" ^ iar.guago In rL 

ccrjnon interface in a dn.vT ^ " -ne existence of L J, 

is there - roTrJ -^ockintj systen der*:nstrat«s *h^f ?k ^'•°ff'r.ous 
pretexr tha'%.ere '^"^^'^''t, for rescue He 1 ' >, M ^^^^^^^^^-^ 

- tha. .here is a capability for r.utual rescue r^^.'.^'^^^* ^^^^ a 

^"""^ spacecraft. 
' ..r. Gen., they do launch ar.d land sul-.d' 

- " " ^« -^^^ ^^-d . ... , Sir , after 

f^bout 1),. vhat'i. it "ifoS; !! ^^^^ before I carie. 

ro>..,dr. J>«ur>a.. or there about, Ik or 15^00 

" ■"■ "^"f* vouid have thn.* u-^^ v 

^ ^'^"^ ^^»^g vouid have that. 

Ap^Ho^jv^ceer " '^^^ 'l^e^tion again But 1. 
' ^^^"1^ theirs is about' I^. ""^^ -^figuration v.i^a "p to go? ' 

™ Oene. OOOvasthoIastofvhatlsa. 
CERVA.V Okay, ther. you are. 


: SPEAKER The rest of my question is. If you reverse the rescue as 
an aerial problen and the Apollo got in trouble in orbit and they had 
a Soyuz standing by with the nev comnwn docking mechanism, could they 
launch with Just one man aboard a Soyuz and pull out some of the other 
gear, like the emergency suit pressurizatlon system so as to cram tvo or 
three of our guys abocrd Soyuz? ■ 

CEFCiA-'i Yes, I think th;;y could. Physica.lly, I think that would 
be a very possible situation. The key to that, and again I don't war^t 
to lea'/e any nis interpretations - the key to that is - rendezvous tech- 
niques ar.^ rendezvous cap-ability. Now, they are very dependent and 
itu'ual r&iar for their rendezvous. Their rendezvous, conpared to ours, 
or - the r/ijority of then are autonatic up to the tir^ of final phases. 
New 1 dor.'t knew whether, I car. 't tell you whether they would have the 
capability to rendezvous with us without sere of that gear on one of 
o-!r spacecraft, such es we did, for ins tancf., on Gemini 10, and wo 
rendez-.*c-^ed with a piassive Agena. 

S?EA"IER Lpt's assa-ie wy gave then a radar steer and a harness to 
ndnimize ours. Do they, do they have enourj^ irp'olse and enouF'h maneuvering 
fuel to reach a crippled Apollc, for exar.ple? 

C£K>A.%* In our condition in v,tiich I 'r. familiar with the Soyur,, I 
have to say they dc , yes, I think, yes. I think you could create a 
situation, J'ast as you have, with the added question wtiether they have 
the performnce capability onboard to rescue Apollc, and it would be ny 
belief that they dc. 

SPEAKER Do you have any i ioa wiiat the plan is for the backup rocket 
f^ii the backup spacecraft after the first spacecraft gt-ta up - do "hey 
pack it up and send it h' Tie? 

CESiATi I don't haVe the vapjest idea what they plan on doin^-, 
not at all . 

SPEAKER Rescue dees net alwj;ys infer transferrlnK crtrwa and bring- 
ing them back to it. V'nat could be the contingency nupport thnr they 
could afford our, or the U.;^. eyster, 8uch as oxyg»?n backup? Could they 
coiae up with bottles of oxyger. given - that sort of thinf^? 

CEF-t'AJI I don't. , yes, ^?ur5t looking at the nnture of some of 
their wctrk and potential work, what they've said on some of their solid 
flints w^iere they are pla.'ining to use this vehicle ag a t ii-, if you 
will, to resupply a solid. There is no reason wr.y , within the payload 
capobliities of their spacecraft, v(.y they could not unload sotre un- 
necessary or scientific gear and or, in the oxygen eyster., ftor in- 
stance, and support us or give us wt-At it would takr, perhapt- , t j sur- 
vive during roenterinii?. I think ai: , I think you can make up cases and 

that there is a capability support on almost all those cases within the 
perforinance capability of the spacecraft. And let's assume that the 
Apollo spacecraft is going to go on a reasonable near-Earth orbit - and, 
you know, not up IjOOO miles. 

• SPEAKER Will future /cr-ierlcnn iran- flights be at 10 psi or l!*.?? 

CEKiAH Well, I thirJc that anything that goes on here is going 
to be a 5 psi, but there is no plan for future fligntp. ViTiere's, where' 
the Shuttle working, the Shuttle is, I trean. Shuttle - Where is Shuttle 
working, do you knew? No , I think Shuttle is working at pure air. 

SPflAJ'IrjR Have ycu ever discussed the rer»te iHSssibility cf rescue 
with the Russians, at all, at any tir£ during the planning for this 
rJssior. , or during the training? 

CEPJ.'AIi Well, yes, but to what extent? You rean, let's face it - 
That is one cf the basic objective.. - and again if the plan works, you 
fjiov t liar;/ says, veil, w-j- really don't have a Joint rescue capability 
and certainly, we don't, b^;', ve are leading or developing a system anl 
an crgtmisatior. , hopefully, and an understanding on the grouijd which 
could lead to develop-^ient cf that capAbility on f-.t ure r-pacecraf* . Si , 
yes, ve have discussed it io that extent. 

SPEArCER There seena to be som confusion durinr ccnveraaticns 
and interviews, excuse sx , during the past few days. We have been told 
by sor;e people, yes, it has been discussed, eind by ether people, that 
it's possible enbarrassrsent for the Russians tJ say, "We cannot rescue 
you people," so haver.'t discussed it. 

CEK'JAN Lot TiG Just say this - 1 an wearing twj hats. I ar. 
wearing a fiightcrew hat working with the cr«>v;i arid tlieir trainiiif, 
and the operational procedures. Arid, 1 an wearing a rwinager.ent hat. 
working with L unney , so I ha\"e been in taost of all of those nianageFiC'.t 
technical discussions. And you have discusseii, v-,' have discussed rescue 
Tl-iey are ?ivart , yes, ve have the provisions to bring ther. back l!i ihe 
extrerae case. There is no sense pursuing the differ<>ncea in that 
capability any further, and wo haven't. We ha-.-e made a ground rule that 
ve have, wo have not been able to i ientafy - prt-iauncf. , any rcquirenerit . 
Thus far, including any energency we have ever examined that will re- 
quire either one or one Ar^erlcan to ccr.<» back in this spacecraft or 
one or nore Russians to back in this spacecraft. You kn;, v, If ,vqu 
ret .ly get it, if this thing here blew righ.t here and you had one of 
our g\iyB here, he is coining back here. But vc have not identifie<3, 
within reason, of the reliability of the harrivare in this flight, ftny 
contingency that would require either one or more of the other crew 
to cone back in the other gK- '^ spacecraft. Nonf^'heles!- , you knew, 
they >j-iOv It'd not, there Is nothing to discuss. They knew that ve have 


SPEAKER Just hri^ri 
the conversations and so fo^tr"" J'^^i'^'^^^ that you have ga< red f 
nothing nore to be donra^J^ V^,^- ^o be S^ineinTJei: 


Wait a minute, I lost you. 

^^ter AS^. ■ But actually, there is nothLTto^e^tt^^^^'^^ 

has been laid and n.^ -u /" '^J^ ^0 i t^l 

^y^ten that it -.oc^^ ^c^it: r^'^^T'"'^^ ^-n dovej '^^Z t/^l^r ''^^ 

oyster, of understanding U J-^an:v.ire to^rether. Kv^t ' 

rail, vhen -his n ? i ^ ''^''^ i-^'Portan- to si* d' vr ^^^^^ People , 

and talK abou ^^tsl" Tch ^"^^ ^^ourvh^^^!,: f?:^? ^" the 

^P^cecrart is ^^fZ^f^^l^^H':^ the desi^ cf^^ : 

able rescue caf«bilitv t f "^"^ Incorporate a rea^ -f;^ ^^'^ 

you can nutull y S' ^'^^^ -"^^i- syste/h;re^ ^ : •'^'^ ^°^te 

sat dcv, ^^I^-h ^-;;e is basis for thia . . 

0f_^tu._, rescue caj^bi^ity ist' here V i ' ^'^^ ^^t"- 

Apoiic , but ve are not . ^ to ccnti:.ue to fly t^,^ 

SPKAKER Gen" 7 - j 
and not th« Shuf ^' C '^^^^-^ that you have been v,,r>ir,„ ^ , 

the fact thafvo^r-^"; ^'"^ « ^^^^t^^''"^^'-''^''' 

cv. /Our colleaRufs herp f^., ^''^^■ration because of 

Shuttle Which does not have the .^l^er''" df^'^' deslRnin, the 

^o^'^^ng r^chanlsm on it? 

--y in^^Los t^;:::^ ll'X.T.r- ^'^'^^ ^^^^^ -^ou. ..a- in 

;~;^tair:?r r^-- ■ e',r::;;j-;-^oad b^'ts 

or «nechanlBn fo /^"''^^'S ^" '^^^ ^'^^t 1 le that ? ^ ^ ^"^"^guratlon 

or vice ve Bn or ^nf'' '^^^^^ «J«eecraft th t had ''^^ '^^"'^ 

our 8r«cecra7t « ^^"vi,n ej^tcecraft to / ""^"^ '^^^'^ 

■ ' ^t V ui, 4 like either .lirr ^^'"^'''^ ^^'^^ 

"cther siTAll payload. If 


hi^t' ^^^^ ^« housed in the nt i 

It 1=. a md.fied la^ar co„rlsu-a" 5/^ " =°™=i ser'lco nodule 

II ms got a little or t„,h " » nodlfied Skvlah 

™t the. the stora.e'^.ia^l^ "f -ch m 2 Iff k":""""' 

Jon't r,=M tt.,t kinj of r,rc"rJ^~Tl.y 7 ""1 ther,! vo 

norc propellant to th ors >, Eore. We have adio,! .„ , . . 

it a ren.:.:S:^:1,'/:::^!;.-/-J/^hat that I t^e^^^^l^r' " 

ex^erirent because it is siriiar to •^« ~ ^^^t Interesting^ 

ll step in that right ^irJlL rc^ .oTJ""" At leasr t ^ 

Md on over the lu.nar surface t ^^^^^^'^^n ^'^^ ^-ascons on Earth l^e 
■^^ that 19 vh.t that exper "isl^l" ^^'--^ ^^^^^ it is a star 

additional equipncnt^n S^^e a^lo^ ' .'^^ ^'^'^^ ^^t. ve'lr^' 
a1;3ress the ATS-6 satellite for ' '"'^ ar.tenna bac> on t(5 

the d„eMf/;-„^fi,fre\:;r;hLTirirM^°'^" '-^ "-"r^^^^ 

control fa^cMon ar.d ju.* fi>r^ f i^^'^tlcal , epacecrart viu or^r • 
-••^ give «e the next ine' ' '"^^ "^^^'^^ ^P-^^ed. That L supe;!' 

^^^^SPKAKEH I. not have a douMe , a vhr I^pp.^r. both 

CKH:.A:. ror the .c. .r the descent «oduI.. 

SPEAKER ^rtheScy..,bothv^.^,, ,,3 3^^^_ 

CERNA:; ournorn.I vhr ranging. We p.. , ^hr - 

SPEX-vR Okay, arui do they have one also? 

It -o2f ^fquirfus'?f,^;r.:;f T''"' capability aboan- rcr 

either a solid or another Soy'u \Tl ^^^r^'"^'^ ^^^'^ t^ey p.'f V, 
a:. Internal picture of the Sov- ; l^'aM"!^ ^^ ' -^1 «h v you 

ren^ved their range and ran^e'itvi? ! «i-^^^^tor 1 vas in - a-.j ...o had 
,l"nel to check Pressures "'^ha'^^ tinre '.V '^"^^ ^ PressurieaMon 

^ey hav. no acti.. ranging c:^l^V:,l ^ tx^ T ' 

• *^*^*- one, please. 


'-^-scriptive pictures of this We 1 vf '"^'T' ' "'^"^ ^^"^ "o^^ 
'•^nnel, too - the Soyuz - he'e '''''' '^'^ - 

ccrr-^nd nodule funnel hatch it is iZnfi ^ ^^^'"'^ ^ 

•^P in the tunnel of the co-^'^ar-^ -k-h-p . ^° ^"^ ^^^-^^ ve cut 

Of J.St falling out. We ha;r;n;ther onrT.J''' "^'^^^ ^"^^-d ' 
rU.t on this side and you will ?iXTth^. '"'^""^ identically 

ooK at the r.>c-Rup that not only tJe L.h k . ^ '^^^"^^ 

islr^M panels - this is a fla^ nane^ h ^'^^^^^ ^^e in- 

>va vhat you have .re all ccrilrd^dil^r* ^^^li^^^ waives 
^^very little, if any .ev hSiarfv^ h ' ^^"'^ ^^ink there 

noa-o^e itself is not the f^ u^.l^^rt^""' '"'^ " ^'-^ 
buna spacecrai^ out cf. Ve looV 7'^,: ^^''^^'O^^ structure that vp 
vithstani nany t ir.e/w h Jh^ e 4\e ^"'^ ^^^^^ 

v:t..tanl a.nd Pressur-zaticr., and r^l^e; <l l^'^^l/' "^'^^ ^^''^ 

c«u.e ve had the fail ca.abilitv 'u:r out ^^^^^^ 
than a structure ha"! "- ."^ efficient 
r-.ran. This vehicle, vi h the eLe ^Sf^ ^^-^l- 
and the oxygen for goin«: u- an"^! f ^f^rrying of the nitro«^n 

cnrvy the nitrc.en ^3 bfcaLrt h;--e to '^'^ - 
o.xy,-er.-enrich their sp^cecraf/" S^^,^ , '''"'"^''^ '^on't 

xn here to dilute thelT .p"e;;a ff VcruaiT ' ■""V'^f ^"'^^ 
eraticns and their partial pre8^.;« "^c Jv.o^'f "«/'-ve fire consid- 
t. , vhen ve go up an l ,i.,vn In nr/I^ ' ^^B^^n lo Hnited. /,nd have 
to mke sure we LavJ th^ . „" rarfr:onf^' ' ^T''"' ' 
rules. Hie vehicle excet.^ for thn LfTf ^'^^'^ ^" ^»^eir ground 

valve - vhich allows nit^c/? a^ , '^^ «lose a ' 
rigla here. We have a jnsfive^'^'.^'^iJ^ this vehicle 
trical pcver at all. This vehicle pfa ^^ ell^' ' h'"'"'' 
command nodule vhich pIu^-s Int-^ , electrical pr v-r frora the 

for that .'lectrical ■ th^ ^^^'/■^'•^ ^'""'^ ''^^ l^nar mdule 

«oar that ve , ,aXe L^ t'l'i comunicat ion3 gear and the televtsir 
*rter ve dock with the i^^u-^'^V 1 ""^"^^^ ^^^^ «''ich v. r.,,te " 

tilities F^ ut tM. iM;^ ' ^^^^^rical co.municatlon 

^hey also! thoy, Sn'u 5 V5l;? ^^"1^;?^'" ^ho S^y^r. 

^nd those vehicle. in the ot^er d r;., '^^^ ^^^^^^^ 

Isolated fror. our electrical svTiL ■ V ' ^^'^^''^d from the Soyuz . 
^^lu, a P..01O oar^ra a;,f the! reieiLf"''" f"?' '"'"^ '° they 
headsets ar,d their J-box1n our veM^fr r%'\"w -^or^^^^ni cat lens 

tnose int. the co.^and n«dule ^Ve^doV.f. ^'^^'''^'^ 
corr^nd «r^,^e. Does anyone have aL l^'.f- "' T'' 

here at ali? Bruce. TieU^ons about our docking module 

^ve oS\^r:r1hrS:;kin?'"dul^".?C'^^ they don't 

^^■t. their spacecraft, i^,,y h^'jj S« 1 ^" ^'^ «° 

/ nave to stretch cords, phi'slcal cordf , right? 


have ere bft.T '^^^^ ' ^'^^ ffit - ^V.,' "^^"^ ^^^^ ^^^t 

oattery cn this vehicle anri . ^ ^° correct myself 

this vehioi.. P^^-^r to separation. But th«t ~ ^ ^^^^^ ^he 

Mssfcn. res, "^"^ '''^ ""PPler «perlM„t at the c„d Jr' 

bHiAKER Gene ' , ■ , , 

Sit aX^'^::? \t ™ 

K' iiito trie other 
10 ..■ e Mx-,-'.S: S'-pfS';ir?''°'"-'-' =cr. 

thrcuch tv^r..=»p s,,'^ = - ^hls fmurtionift 5 , t , / ^ 

.ouI.^or^r^^^:^,rL^[--f^-^i- eh.n,es : o^r^^h, J^,. 
j;/ro. the cor^and noa j W a^f " ^^'^ <^ou d 

.«?t your partial prea^-re r^w■.« ^ pressure ani 

the tone inte.ri t^M^^ a'S ^-^^^.l^f/A^r' ^^'^^ "^^^ 
If you ccxld io that in 5 ninu-or ' f ! °^ ^''■'^ " a hatch. A^iJ 

';^,<5ically throu^, there, e r^i,";^^^^ ^^''f /ou could legally trenf^'.r 
like the 'int? ..^ 7 tokeo obviously a cer^nfr, Ji ;^«"^'-^*«?r 

"ha. >ou can't beat, no mtter vh;t you do - f.t 
SPEAKER They don't have to spend - 

ti- .re^t 1^:-^^^ —re or .y 


so 't^Z. \^ tV"^- P^°«d^r^lly. ve built the transfer procedures 
so that they, they take rwre than a few ninutes . But technlcallv ^"^^^ 
there .s no reason that you coul..- 't go right on through - Sf 'eascn 
th.t ar>d I vxll shov you later on when : have that tirrjvhat it Sks - 
But basically, we have gu,-s working on the opposite side of clos;r 
hatenes and so ve have very straightfo^^-ari, slow, methodical rroLirr.- 
so tnat the guys on each side will knew .hile thej' l^^VZl he 0^"^ 
g'jys are doing. But - me ctner 

SPEA;-3R But, Mary answered a question - - 
TRULY There is a very shoit tirie. 

^''^^'t^^ V '^^'''^ ' ^^^"^^ ^i"'^- ^'-ii through those Pro- 

cedures when he, sore of ther., when ho .ces over Joint acOvitieJ 


t-hat , 

EFJip _ 7-nere is no - there is no neiical physiological problem 
that I nave e-.Tr been aware of or heard of - at 10 psi to 5 psi 

„ S^P^ f^'^f'^'. you nenticned fire considerations. "^T.^t has been 

ZT''^'' ' ' '''' ria^Miitr 

CEKi/V; There has teen a great, great deal of work done In ^he 
v'or^.ing groui . m the r.a.nagen«nt technical -.ear* on w!m' vo call the 
safety_ assessment reports. And one of ther . or course, in fire - Z<i 
gas enissivity problems ar.d that sort of thinr, as veil as all of 
c.ner things that you rd^.t inagine to exar.lnf. And ve have found ^out 
tnal, van, first of all, for opc^nt>rs - we told thera that their sui* - 
the raterial that they h«id on their suit wa3 not - v-,s no' coar=-'bl« 
v-ta coning .nto our sjncecraa. And 60 the alt-rnativefl w^re for ther 
to get another or atvelop anothei^ rAteriftl for their suit, for no' 
ye v^mld provide them with r^terial to build their sult^i out of!' '-his 
is their not their hard pressure suits to cone o Ou^ 
spacecraft They vent back and they developed a nateriai - thev gave 
it us. They r,.ic5 it was ccr.patlblc. l-hey gave it to u.. to mke 
sure; we .estei it under our criteria, fo^^nd out to be as good, if not 
better, tnan the nalerial we're using. TV.eIr television car.erl has ?o 
be er .ased m a special r^terial to eor->e into our spaeecraft - their 
a>vie camera which oxperler.ced a lot of arcinf. which is ckav at' m 7 vii 
We caae into agreement and turned out to be much better to operate this 
vay than reroute or for then to rebuild their laovie ca-iiera or find 
another one. We have lent theft our raovie car«ra which is coinpatible in 


our atnospnere so thsf f v, „ 

report .h,.. covers that kind of thin, ■^l I'^ sssessrent 

:,t-\.^t-^v.rES o^= " - -.-i Ir 

- are r;any of then. 

SPEA/ER Gore hov 
Close^fh^toh »s1wl'cUv"'J'C'f»"'-'? pressure, are r- o 

="f;- '-••■'T- '^'^ •-?;eiaL°\.':.t'^e .^^ 

Xi . ^ natcnea are different y ^ •''^^ close i- . 

to close ar:d you have to ^ave a ha* -ou r«v« 

closes avmiy fast also/ ^.3 ^^^f^^ ^ ^^^P- wheel . f-^'if'"' 

SPEAKS n F^ri^heral r.echar.isr. 

orf.A/^,R Do you peopie hav^ . ^ 

-.•es .eoa,.o or eo.e™^ -.'T.:\-fa-l- ot"-.: 

CBRm Obviously nothr.,™ V, ^ 
xn the /l.o« ri^.t nov. f '•'^^^ ^'^'•'^ out and Mt 

-jcvledge right ncv - you rd^. p-t'f J^^ ^•-^^•■■^^ the be.t of rv ' 

fou^'^f^t ufs:^^:^^^,^-;-;-^ y-r reaction vou 

because ve haJ « fi,„ ^ ui^re^t ^^''''r ^^^^^^ of ti,, 

don't fly anything vhether^f . ^^^^^ ^^^'^^^ hHro^-arc 

actually get in and look I L ^ ^'-'"^ or Ar^body els-s' .."rf- ;! 

b:fhi"^ -^^^1^ L r^;^: ^^^^ - -e7.::rved 

Jldn bother in the initial eta^e of th^^^ * 

TJi r S'^i'^^ to see it^e?ore ;/r^f • ^^'^^'^ Mother 

are going to sec it at the launch si 

SPEAKER A little . 

^^ttle lute. Isn't It? 

^*^««AN Pardon. 

^ ^i^tle late, is^'t it? 
seen it Inst year 'i'/''''''' depends on vheth„ r 

to see It you^^ Lre\TeT:urV . ^ b^x: \nT' ^ke to have 

11X^1 to ,o in their facTorles^'' ^^ovHu't li.'' f"^' -^^ting 
I told you, no, I voul i h ! ^heir prod,^!^^^^ ^ ^"^^id have 

^^ve liked to but f ^^, ^ "-iddlng you. flnr^^^" techniques if 

probably don't.'l °3ir^h''^ ^^-^ ' a go tV°^" ^ ^^ulV 

- personally don't i' ''" ^^^^^craft. to ge* i^ff w '^'^ ^ 

riding alonj v^.. ;." ^^<^'^se is, you J^ov ? < ' ' ' 
\t. But the crevs fbs^lt J! ''^'^ ['^g^t if f''^' ^ ^^^^t 

tnat spacecraft, to W 'I/T ^ P^^^^nt re"u-i'/''''"^ see 

-a-^^ rr^- -o-^: --i^ir^h- 

i'^te - because he ^"'^"^ '^^^ fircvs. i Z 'w''*^ ^« ^onetMng v. 

f:-^ going to tkl lly:^. ''""""^^ th; 15th Of ^^'^r too 

--or la...,, nc"^ h/da"orr. ^--traJned to I^-^! - are 
--H3 that critlca- or /hnf '"^ "O''*-'-- /uM i f ?>, ^^^ept 'he 

^f-r.Ar3:R Que. tinn= , ^^d^Jth. 

^-tions Slipped ^.e than . dav anVa d " ' 
vho]e *--'jec*or-/ 1. x.^"^'^' SO into that v. ^ 

- »--e Jot'her'.^r-t.r^"--- He'c^V,,;!: .!^/oing to cover the 
acneJule. j ^^'^ get about 10 isini;t„c ^^'-ter idea. Let 

supports the cxs-c^^\ . "«dule. this J« » °^ dockir^ 


spacecraft is v- 

it turns out to ^ ^'""Po^-tant . Thev r„ , 

Hero i3;.r ■ f>-..^: ' ""^ 

e--. here ff^^ ' "f-. - a^e r-.f it^'^tf""-- 

V ar, located horc- k ' ' ' "f -arej s^, l"*e5 LI ' 

^^-n:o.s :n the docking itdu^^e''/^-'^^ ''^t cn 

syaten - elect rLf'v''"'^' ^-^^^er.. Here 

v«y our rin« vin T extended for: '^'ch&nlcal . r .! . 

^<?st decking aftpp 

ioaas In an these dlffer«n"dlrJItloL ^is ring ca. absorb 

some Of these sere,, Jaek«. WheHne sc;^^! v"""^"^"^"^'^^ operation of 
If H ..b3orb«<J by another acrev Jack extendi ^^^'^ 'Hrection. 
it aeta very r^ueh iikc hydraulic SxaSsIf ^ " 
operation unleas you have any spe^Sc duStionrih T"."^' 
iatches other than to say, for eve^-/ «tJ^!f , structural 
Of them aro.m4 here - the^rrirmfrs An^J^ ^"'f'* ' ^"""'^ ^^^^^ 
Fair, one of tho.e iatches is ^c^iv. Lef f /ou .^11 each pair, in each 
every one of those there's tva latches Ll J """^ 
'pen .^en we are going in to docf it ^^T T"^"^' ' ^^^^ 
it and g.^b « hook on their side ard clS^"^'^^'' " ^^'^^^ate 

these vehicles together, ^he otherlt^h , . "T.'^ "^^"^ ^-^ P^H 

'\r.d It at no iir^ , except Sr co^ fin^^n ^ ^^^^^ ^'tationar/ . 
t^e Pa3si-.e latch! Jhaf s theTatch't^^^^^ ^'^"^-^^ ^-'-'s 

their active iatoh and grab ahold o? S ' --^^^^ 
rigbt here and an active lat^ lr.". t ' ^ F^^^i^'^ i^^teh 

latch, •.'ken ve are docked wlfh ^'^^'^ * passive latch an-i an active 

onto their sy.t,r^.t<^ S"^^ -;iVe latches have la'htr is the question a lot of'people l^avr i.^ V-""' ""^'^"^^ '-^^^tch. 
^^iluret Hcv can you get the ^^^^ll J^^ rFF''^' >>ave a 

ve, have th< 

e nornal method of ocer^iM-n^ T f*^^ " "^^^ -'■e active, 

l;ackup ,.ethoa of operating1j':r^"rSraria S'''"^ .'^ 
fron their side - See, v» Rrab thlt; nJ • f" ^"'^ ^''^^^ '-unlatch 
fror. their siie, and hl^ have a r 'iir!>'^''' ' '^^'^^ '-^^-^^^^ 
latch pyro nechanisr.-visJ.. r you ^ f « '-^^^^ 

the sar. ^hing. I^.ey can ur.laJh their a't^vria^r? 

ve can take our passive latcv, ve d-^r- " - aai 

eleetricaliy-r^chanically open our passive "late} "'S ^-^^^^'^-^^i oally 
triply redundant as far as opening an, of tnos: lat^L^""^^ " '''' 

. ^. AU righ.t. If the ,Wri'^ar sy~* e- i ^ .1 - 

is tnat vhat you're saying? Does -har ^IL t ^ electricai -hydraulic , 

th. .«Hicles toother, ^o^.trr:^^^^^^^^^^^ 

Kcv ions ,,o;, tSt 'uH^; ' ''"^ ""ve to turn .rem,!! 

CEMA.'; SIci, I've oloeeil thel- h.-,-> In ti,.< • . 

a big wheel, and you close the latch and you turn it, maybe a turn and 
a half. You Know*, it's big wheel, you Just go like this, and thos? latches 
are all on cars, and they Just go over center and they lock. V.'here on ours, 
it's the sane - The hatches ore quite different, but ours, we use a crar.V. 
to drive those latches on and over center. We go crank, crank, and 
their 's ^-ou go like this, and you're closed. It's not 8or*--thing you have 
to turn and turn and turn for any great length of tinse. I've got a 
couple more pictures of this, but if there's any, if any want to know; 
I didn't go into much detail 'cause it does get confusing, but anything 
you v-Tint to know, I'll answer now or later. Let's have another one; 
let's see what the next one is. 

This is J^ost one of the test rigs we had here. Our systen is passive; 
it's on the bottom here, and our ring is retracted. So we're doin.^ 
nothing. We sit here and do nothing. They're active - their ring is 
ex- ended ri^t here. And, as you see, they will capture us wi-h these 
latches and the rose petals. And this was a test, a dynar-ic test wher-* 
they put side load:; ; they put high closing rates and everj'thing else, 
and we ccr.ducted this test here for several mcnthf , and they had their 
t-3chnicians as well as ours here during this test. A-nd this test gives 
TOu another view. Their structural ring sits way back up in here. :;!;xt 
cne pleaso. Okay. This is a test in the Soviet Union. ; A si.Tilar tvpe 
of test where we" sent both of our fliglnt "onits ever there, and they have 
three fligi:t units interfaced with two of ours because they have an 1-2 
spacecraft ar.d a spare 'unit, and we have Just the prirar;^ spacecraft 
and a spare unit. They're all called flight mouth [:'], it's Just 
another indication. And this is a config^uration vr.ere it locks like 
thev have Cfiptured. You can see the distance exposed here in the tunnel. 
Here's the structural latches on the U.S. side right here, nr.i their 
rose petals new have captured onto our ring, and as socn as -';ey I'Al 
their ring in, they'll pull their system down to interface vitn these 
latches and that re doubly, or that dual seal, if you will - I say 
doubly red -undant , naybe it's not really considered that. But it's a du^.l 
seal." There's an identical seal Just like that on their syster. and i-.'s 
a seal, a seal ... And the Russians are so sensitive that *hey have a 
nethod of checiking the pressure between that seal to r^ke sure that one 
of those seals hasn't failed. They can rsaXe - they can be assured - 
that both of those seals are actually holding pressure . Next please. 
Yes . 

SPEAKER Gene, since this is the contact point between the sp-i-e- 
crfit^t of the tw.; countries, I would like to ask a question on v:;at is the 
weakest feature of both systens that you can think of? 

CEF:;aN The weakest feature of the docking systens? I'i like to 
think we've thought about all of the weakest featuj-es . We had a lot of 
trouble with things like seals. We had a lot of trouble with therral 


constraints, operations F t 

vere in the thornal areas, bu* all 1. . "^evelopcent problems 

on these sy.te«s have pro;en buf L be ^ ' ' °' therrrl] te,t3 
think there', any ve.ik poIx."s if v^, . So I dcn't reallv 

are you trying t. do wiS h^" '.LT ^^u ask yoursel/ I "at ' 

say we're laun,^hlr.« v'th « v!' a^'Jro,--/nou3 docking syst-^jr' IM nv 

If ours doesn't v-.rv ■ >^"^-i^i-ie3 on either side nf tK« ^ ^ v. 

Soyuz : Islat :::^r.^°:i,r^V°' f?"'^ "^^^ briefly la the 

.uite straigP.t in ■^^'1ltd^^'' ''''''''' passive/or - [tavej 't «ct 

CEFJi'A.') OXav I 'n crr>< ♦ 
•"•EIM Yes. Go ^head. 

unilateral ly 

CER')A,*i The Sovu" -oe " 

S'^Dport -:ts-T^ ''^"-"■'^'^tio^'S a;ia everything Pise fha* it k 

-i"-^- '^-:=eix, environTOntal contrril ^-^fc^ '^na. it has ^o *o 

Th.e norjent that we dock, the^^ Tal^L/. l ''"^^'P^^' ^^^^1^ in sL^e 
i^. It deactivates au^o:^ti!^l1 aid ' f.'" '^^"^'•-l ^^ster.. r'ct 
deactivation electrically anf .;^chantcii - S"'V'"'' ^^^^ 
_.^ey re sure that of their Jhnlt^;-' > , h "^"^^ «^ t^^*- 

.roa a control point of viev the f/^'"" ^"^i^^ fire 

.'•••^^-.eaticns point of vi.v, Sj' are as ^tf'""'^ F-ssive. Fron a cc'- 
an environr.ental control ^y.ten Lin^c^vJ^^ ""Z'^"^' ^"^^'^ ^^^^^ 
req.iren^nt point of viev, excer- -^^ ^ ^'"^ electrical pcv- 
the enviromnental and the erec-i^:? ^^^'"'^ their control syst^- ^^v.. 
^^tiye. The svstem -.a vfl^' v they are w ^ 

V. have ,one into In ^reat .''^ ''''''' ' 

control systen because oncft^'se ^^' hS'"'^' t^^e envircnr.enta - 

c.e >o'.iid be very viiHr.g rw in tMc ' spacecrafi . And I f^r 
■"s'.'-e going to fiy in. ^ ^ ^" ^^^^ spacecraft under the coni^Lr., 

i:i'SA.K;:R Including la^ 

4TOfJ0 aysten that * ' "-ey Jua" '» tHelr d„?^w 

nod,,'. '■■''"^>' heavier " "'snsive ti-.,' ; • ""■ '^Jila rii„v, 

--nt panel faces 'hL f ^-^^nJcIng 'n' '^^an.e^ * 1; 

^^upport gear, i . "^^^ this v^^ ^^'^'^ n became ' ' 

.the. reaU;X:- S^e^'^- -c\\^.\f[- s.vs:.: v^^^^^-^e 

-'^ave v-hat ve vould n " ^''''^card spacecr:^ -~' ''^'^^^ they d^. u 

--ext please. ^ '^^^^J' '^cr«'s so. ^ 

shcv vo, vitv ''■"''P ^^'^^t they 

^^'■'^-■s -^'ich ; '"'"''^^ ^^ieh the* ^1 their Lki:; I 

hcTo's a ^''folded. Her!' ''^^ttisor, for entr^- L 

^on't o^;^^^rcc'T * '^rllr- 'X^'i ^^^^^^ trJV^^^ -^ar 
^-ilizaMf- ? «^ouple3 liVg ... 'hey have one hpr« ^ -nrusr^r 

1 ^ ^^^<^h give ther. 


Please ^ a t^iL- ''^ ^nitl ^^''^ Used ''^^Z - a r 

lose their RCS syste. ento ^e'dor''? .^P^^*-^-"^^^^^ P^^^^^- they 

their suit Icx-p. Fer. vl^^n ^ " /T^ ^^""^ "^'^"^^ controls 

of oneratinr T f v ^^'^^'^^^^^ ■ l^ey address several different nodes 

he„ vMch open up'to t.eriifc-a ^.Tlr^^^^J^::^:^':! 
buttons over here vhich says tUev v-.^ to I off 

do it. Or son. of the things th;t\;:;K r^'caTL I^i^v 
on when they happer, . Tney do thlnrs vitK 3y=,t;;= ' ^ '"'"'^^ 

on. ve do this ar' ve dcfth?- -^"T"' ^- thrusters 

that sa^ .aneuv::: ' ^eS ^p ^v:^^;e.i:..^'!f .T" 

an an those things are going to happen/ b ' ^l^d":"'^ ' 

.•hej 11 corx- up to speec. SpacecrHf' , thev'll o-ien* i- -v. . 

prp:^:i^^rr-' - ^^^rn:^- 
a:rti--trn-r— ^ 

cocKpit IS address those ground rf cor^.a:- is in -his sv.'Vp^ \ f 
extend of +\jr"'r,ff 1*-^-- ^, m .nis s>Eter,. hven to th« 

ix.en. oi U^..:, on and o: : , they go thro'urj^ a box like thi,. 

SreAKER Well, then, for the - if vc; vx-ed ^ o do • v„ . „ - 
or cual failure can thrcv vou out of - -e' bar 'v. , " 
redundan-Y nf - ir,, .'v^. uuy ci ...e Daiipar/.. \on dcn't have 

r.a- , " ^^^"^'^ ^"^^-eie sr-all failure -.-u.h v.- can da l-->. 

CERNAir rnat's net entirely true. :>>cv c>a- o^>.. ■ • 
in a critical (crit^ai n>o „ .* . ' certain instances, 

a c.p.Miitro^f^:i;:ui, 

^^^r""^^ l-^^^ctions i.^divid-aally, but for -J :ost -a^ 

they ,-^.-e anotlor sy.te. ba.Kin, it up -...ich viu'do th; sa;e ^htLV 

A whole system"; 

CEKiM A whole ays ten Fitrv io o ^ 

the backup engine. Let ne lust ^T/iy , / '^^'^'^^^ ^'^'^^'^ ^^^^ "^^ed 
a - . Here's thp Tnc?. f ''^''^ ^^^^ ^^^^'^ here. I've%ot 

tu.e o/ZM a':i '"^e" ,Xsf 

in there, by the vay . Ana this ::ri;art:r Z nl'f'^l'''''' '^^'^ 

you're saying? -uaxijr uoes it, is tnat what 

ccplete^y controlled Tron t^: ^ Ld^^t^" f ^rr^M^''^' 
being conpletely controlled fro- f^e the capability of 

riy without the hi;nan h4^t !..?;°^'^- ''^^^ '''^^ ^'^^l 

there's k ran onbo'r". -'It I-' ^ir^^'" -^^^^ -^^^ groand or, if 

interface soJ:^^-,^,^;^l^J^:l^^^^^ capabilities 'to 

ticularly those that are criticS t'sJ^y!!^?^^'^ T^^*^^^'^" ' 
tr-1 ryster., this kird of -hin~^ - sarvival Une envirorj-.ert ^1 ccn- 
inJividual conrind' "he^^o'^d e™,-d does address 

the crew would addr^s.' ^ ^^^dresses an automatic eyster Just like 

to opf^fe'fo d^^o^tMr-' '^^T'''''^^^'^ ^^^^ ^'^^^on for a sv«t.. 

c:-ier for the spaoTra'^T; dH^ ^J.^'^ '^''"^'^^ giving that 
to turn it on? ""^ ^'^'^ ^'^ -^^'^ -^^ the ero-x-id 

out. So, thev .iot.'t t.ii .he ..r^..r1 , / .6e comnnis sre sorted 

interface ,„,i, bo" 'a^fthev™ n ^rS^riff.: r-\-„ 
their control cf s-ececra^^ ,,1. » /"-^^^^'^e^^-th this box. But 

this is the reL :^:r^;i;et-l"h\lc"'V:^;- Of mt^rest 

vhich is - this is^ valve th^ 'Jou pSaJ l^' :;/;hV"'' '^ ' 
opened up during a reparation of Ajoll^or Sc- n 

H HtUe valve that stuck out this 2 d it : ' '^-'hat t: 

ir^ar.uaily. New it 'a within reach of il f ^'^^"^ '^^'^^^ 

b-ot, I thirA 2~\/2 *o 5 * urns ^rt ni.J f Center seat, and it' 

Pius there's severa"ct\er^;:odi i?! L^.^: a'f 'J 
Just the physical part. Her'.'s anc^her-a'^v^ ^ "hat • 

vay, that open up v^e. they o^'he w J ^ J: ^'"^^"^ ' -"^^ 

ch-.tes for - so they den ' t -o^ vL.'! ^'-^^^nd prior to a.^i on the' 

very pressure-sens i^iv^picS ~ ^^^S^'l^l^'^ ' 
P.essure is e.u.l the inside and on the cuSide'r 

hat tir.e 


on the ground, in case of an incapacitated crew, there's q fan that . 
autorfttically actuates and circulates breathing air through these tvo 
valves in :ase the crew ia incapacitated and cannot open that hatch and 
get out . /■ Yes . 

SPEAKER Two questions. Is their craft as instrunented to tell the 
ground by telenietry the health of various systens as ours? 

CEKiAJi Yes, I think so . 

SPEAI'olR Okay. Anl you were talking about the black box on the 
interface to the ground ar.i everything. Are they experiencing diffi- 
culties^ Ka'/e they had a failure of uplink or downlink": 

Cr;R^■A!{ Would they experience difficulties if they had a failure; 
cf uplink, or downlink? I would giaess you'd have to assur.e they would, 
and then you know - but they've still get a crev onboard to operate that 
function," F«rticul a rly on any of the critical f^unctionE. I dcn't know 
The answer to your question. I can only ass ur.e that yes, beca'^e tney 
do - a lot cf the corrAr.ds are se-.t up, put on a tir.or to be activated 
at a certain tire later in the revolution wrien maybe they're out cf^ 
radio contact. And that comand ia sent up fron the gro-ond. Now if 
they lost uplink, then I wculd assume that - their conmand upiirJt - then 
I would assure tha* thvy would alternately have to go to the crew. I 
nean. I guess that '3 a problen. We in turn go to the crew first. Yes. 

SPEAKER Talking about teler.otry. Can the American network pick 
up their tr&nsnission ar.d process it" 

CEKfAK :<Qt teler^trj'. 

SPEAKSR Not teleoetri'. Even as a backup? 

CEI^AN No reason to. They don't pick up ours . We d- r. '• pick 
up theirs. Voice, yes; we've got transceivers on there. We've gc* 
carbon transr-itters new -.i-iere we can talk to ther, on voice if we have 
to in ar. eniergency, but net teler/etry. 

BEIM Bill . ■ 

SVHAKER I have a .:iuestion that nay hs a little prer^i* are becavjse 
you're still in your technical briefinf, but since there was obviously 
no data interchange on a direct level between the design cf the Soyuz 
siftcecraft and design of the Apollo , and there was data interchanged in 
>iSTP rcrtion, have you or /\nerican engineers fouivi ai.y option cn the Soy 
that you regar i as a particularly brilliant or alternate solution 13 
engineerinf- problems trmt we didn't knew about? 

the Moon, I think you've got to back off anci take another look at it. If 
you wanted to itself te capable of extended operations in Earth orbit, 
v};ich neans performance capabilities, longer durations, I think you've 
got to stand off end take another look at it. But I don't think it was 
designed to do that. I think it was designed to do what they're using 
it for. . , . 

SPEAKER llary. 

CEP.%'A.V It's your tir.e we're uninp, people. I, you knew, I'll 
answer as much as I can. But it's your tine. 

RSi:' We'll Just take about 5 nir.utes. 

SPEAKER Well, looking at it, Gene, from a pile* 's point of view, 
you said you thi.-.k you would rather fly ours, but theirs vo^xld be accept- 
able perhaps. But you mentioned the fact that they have 100 percent 
fron the ground and less direct pilot, you knew, control of the space- 
nr&f\. Do you think, overall, that our astronauts prefer to fly oursT 
Ar4 hcv do you think the cosnonauts feel with looking at it like you 
would an aircraft. Would they rather fly something like our spaceships? 

CEFJi'A-N 1'.'-. not eoing to tell you I 'd rather fly so.-.ecr.e else's 
besides our. I 'r» not gcin^ to tell you that for two reasons: nt;r.ber 1, 
because I wouldn ': . ri'ur.ber 2, because I '.-i too nat lonalist ic -ninded to 
say that I would, but even if I did, and because I was brou^t up in ry 
world of aviation with a i;pacecraft or an airplane that would only do wha- 
you, the guy who was in control of it, would either tell it to do or 
zjiV.e it do. So ry philosophy is perhaps different because I grew up 
with fi different philosophy than they grew up with. And so fror. a pilot': 
pcir.t of view, naturally I would rather fly our spacecraft Ijecause I 
can do thing!- . If our spacecraft - nr.d this is not to condera., to con- 
ienn their systen - but on latinch - and you asked me on launch - You 
know, I sat there on a pad on Apollo 17 and they said in 30 seconds 
Vi-e're not goinp. Well, I didn't kxiow whether we were nr * going or not, 
and I had ny hand on that abort handle from that point on until about 
2 or 3 Einutes plus time, because all I oould think of was one of the 
tiries w^fiere his sp^acecraft, before he flew on it , tiiougiit it had ►tone. 
^Ind all these da.rji parachutes car,e out, and everything else happened. 
Well , I wasn't sure whether our abort system would have thought we went 
ai.d then shut dowr. or what wis ^oing to happen. But I had in rj.' - I 
had, \'ou know, a let at stake and two other guys ' liver- , or whatever, 
but I had in ny control the ability to nake a decision - right or wrcnr, 
it was there. I like that feoiinf. I like that kind of responsibility 
to be able to make those kind of decisions if I have to under those con- 
ditions. Their philosophy is such that the guj' on the grourid is going 
to pake that deciaicn. Now I'n not sayir,;; that that's good or lad, but 
that's just a basic dif fcrs-'nce . 


here for the last? 

CKKI.Vi We're getUng off the subject. 
SPEAKER Well, just very trlefly. 

^.P.;., Hell , I only ^-^^^^^X'^l^^^^^ , 
basis of vhat I read ^Xi^^^^^^^f gl^her tS.t th^ ncent^^ - let's 
•hir.g else. iVni I vo^^d gather, x "..^^^^ . Let r.e tell you 

face it, you and I Vmo. , VO^^^^^ Sc'ers lonallv , the pilots and the 
this. They certainly ^^^^-//^^^^.^^"^ra^ aved by the rorr^ance and tne 
crev3 and the engineers " f ,,inlv respect this particular 
e.n-enture of having gone there. "^t"^^, it in that U^t and 

acconFli3hr.ent on our P^^*" ."^\^,^^^;'te Lve Just becone such gcv-d 
you y-nov, just because - ^^^i^^^T^f^^.g' c* the capability of or the 
fiends individually V^^^^^^^ Tnd t^ere is no cues t ion about it - 
acconrlishnent of the ^ach other as friends and ve talK 

I near.. It is " "'^'^^ . 

about it and it °^^^°"^^^?t^^'if v'^ether or no^ done. Th.ere ^ril^^^-^'ll^.^t - as pret'.y rar.far.* at that poir.t 
to go to the y-<x>n. Hell, f J J?^^':^ the M.x>n. 

in tine. I expect eve-/or.e van-eu .o 

p£Ty. ve wi'i *ake one nore cuesticr. 

{nr Ari YOU touched on 
srEA^^R It's pretty .uch the ^^^^^^^^^ Z you thin, that 
•his ansver before. But ^ /^^l^^lr^^^^'^ ^Vid the Russians ev-r express 

.»v. neve.. I h-e never ev n . u they van-.ed to or 

to - partly in ansver to ><>ur , snsver to your lasl 

vhy tSey dlon't. So I can t - J ^ '-o -^e X=on I thir.X 

question. V.'hether or not 'P'^'^"^ ,„.ai„g Oemlni sp.ceeraft to 

there V,, ao«e r ir.bles at one I ne ''""^.^^aft could have cone 

tSe X.on. I --^.t;•^:;^^,s » ?o"ne?*t ect 'here I'r. not .uro, 

t.3 the !ioon. '^nat it vas feOii.c, 

t-5 the ' ioon . 

, „ _ ye=. I'n talking about going to the Moon 
GEKi.VN '"^1^ - ^ fi'^^, „_e ^alk and sos« of it vas nixne 

and coning back. I '^^-'j-^!^ ^'JIZ in a - Bomebody'a - t.rcv t.e 
abo-..t the Genini AgcnP , -^^^^n^f ^.rncnetheles. . I think the GeMni 
Gaturn or vhat, I don . i'-'^-'- 



the '^^^ 




SO to th ^ I ^ 


e ^ 

s fa 





is ^ riot ^ 







is a "'^^^ ides an- 






>• so- ^^^e- 


screen ""''^ the 

those' '^^^^e orbit,, c?. ^^^t ^e^^ 

''■ftich i?^*^^'^ ref'^^y have -'^^ ■ 

^itfj^V. „^^do..t C?\i^-a^d^..if^t:Tf.^^u;f^ 

. °^"a 
to be 

es ve.y'^ Pf-es 

^oo.:,^.\«-d ^^nev have f^^^-aA ^^^'^ thei^^^'^^.vste' ' 

'^^«t i,-,*^ yoy >.een ^^ou tft^^^^^ Jir^^^a i,,^ are ve^^ - 



^ ^dr!!!f^ ^orit^!: The 

^'s^sL^'^ ^t 
<?ther ^''^ 

^ you 


e ■''^ro 


to be 





''ith ■ 



?3°\^VluV:::J\\tuTs;fteT";t^r ^ ^^-^^ But . 

the inside of this spacecraft or yo^see th.L v''^'* ^'"^ ^'^^ 
television, you're goin« to think it it the 
And it is because there's not nuch in 'v'" °^ ^'^^^^ rocr.. 

is not as big as the Apollo sprceL"t v!\^' '^"^'^ 
f>3ker until last. "spacecra.t. Jext please. I saved the 

let -":"":rve\r?rkf: ;ej:v^^L:it^f"^^ — • 

have got two television stations In 'h 2 '^^'^^'"''^ ^'^^ 'our careras. We 
have ever been in existence bl?or« LT^' "^"^ "^^^ ^'^i^^h 

in about three .o^^.ting places T^he dockU^ rc '''-''^'^^ 
this v-ay, and ve can lock ^Mb vl- LT nouaie. so ve can l^oX 

look through this hatch ir.tS here' ' wf hav'' "^T ^^--^^^y 
tvo positions to put that ca.4a <V ere f^'' ^eierision station ^nd 
So ve have the capability f^jfth^ grotf^'o i"^ 'h' "'^ 
television careras at anv one tii-l rll^f f ^'"^ '^Xr one cf four 
Place vhere ve .eviaU U 'c^b^ d ^^^^^^ -^^^^ 

has control cf the television. pr'-^Mv 1^ -^e gro-ond 

r^ess vith it. -n^ey can turn the^T':- f- ° tr.e crev doerr.'t have 
rut t.he black covers over *he len= >: f • turn them or. , they can 
-d hopefully to sor.e r:;scL\ rg;,^ l^^^^^ '^^^'^^-^^ ^^-'^ 

-^-6^^tenite^!^^e~t;:\^:f.^-^-^ orthe^pi^j^.: r-^f.^ ^ • 

or contact vith our gr^^Sd sSior;;^ °' ''''''''' -'^'^ '-'^ c-t 
in^our lev Earth orbit. To ^ZJ^ tL l^V^ P^-^^ ■ -^.rily 

r-e.i.^. gives us voice. a.nd gives us ^ll^ . ^ateli,..e gives us tele- 
tne orbit as Cc.^.p^red to 1? p^rcer^ C'tti f' ^0 perc.nt of 
r.arily - it viu be over Afrf;.« J!*" it. And v. drv^ p^i. 

--ices in the count' o^^ndia vri/''?i'::f^^ ^^uca-ionS^ 
a-;.i_all that inforr^tion thar jul .ii\r;'','" «^'-ircsB.ble to Madrid 
vision, viii all corve throu^Jx he;e"and^^^ k?"""^ ' and tele- 

eliite and back to us here. N'eS or^ ff^^"^^^ ^«<^i^ '^P through a sa-- 

-<i.Ai, one, pietise. 


coverage, across all SilT/i f ^^^^ Sot^^ 1^^^ P-cfnt 

•--c have a ground station ca^.ble t^^liX \"to A^,tralia. Ve have - 
.t ^Idstone. Ve h^^e^c. c,, ^^^^.^ ' K« Mve got one here 
vith the APS -6 satellite An^ v . ' •3^-- "'^i 'iosH need U 

MII^ has it . televiJion-caJ^bni^'^We^^"""^ ^^'^ -ther. 

romg to filled in, F^rtlcuC^iy a'crc-r;. ^ ' ^"'^ these .aps a^e 
stations. N-ext one -n,,-! v *,* ^'''^^^^ the United Ftates VtK tL 
;hat ve have S ^n^^^rf ;\e7"jj 'c^^^^. '^^^^ 

tney have one of o^ors for bc:h r^giV: ^S'^ l' ^requenj;. 

^o. j.e rendezvc-is. and for 

enorgcin-y contact vlih |>.. 

the BussiM3 or to our r;^cS"7"^i. could t.r ■ 


CEKW, /U I do > ^ 
^uo„c, «.„ they ^e. "' • Its Ju.t ..J^x« 

3 right an the FA... band thou^ . 
' " — -S"cy. I ac„.t .„ev 

C-E.R:.-a.^; I ^er- V -^v.-^d .-.v^e it easier. 

I don't thir.V T V, ' ' -^-^^^ Ke.i can t»i- 

RE " »' til 

right back in here and get s-I;?!/ '"'^'^'^te break ar.d v. v-, 

^ smarted vith .Ken Your.^^. Okay? 



CtLpNiN YfB, 1 think we've - and I can't be specific because I've 
been in so' nanv meetings talking about different things. But you Vxov, 
I've often heard that, you kr.ov, vhy didn't ve think of that? Little 
unique features: naybe the vay they isolate electrical power circuits or 
something like that. But, yes, there have teen those instances where, ^ 
sa- that's a very unique, distinct way of doing it, and it's siir.ple and 
reliable. You know, vhy didn't we think of that? And that kind of 
'hing has cone up occaeionally at sor.e of our discussions, particularly 
as ve'-e investigating the safety assessr.ent reports and we get deeper 
into their syster.£, because that's a requirenent for us to 'understand. 

SPEAKER ... iTAjor solutions to engineering probler^. 

CEF^^^:J No, I don't think so. I don't think there's ar^thing 
if - I don't think anything r^Jor, any redesign?, would have taken 
Dlace i*- we had the knowledge, any redesigns in Apollo would have taken 
place, rnajor redesigns, if we had had the kaicwledge cf the design ot the 
Sov^az spacecx-aft. I don't think. I think that's a fair statement ^ to 
t3.\ E -t here again, I hate to repeat an old cliche which x ve always 
>-ek-d ai^^ut. Biit^in reality, the sophistication of tne Apollo spacecra it 
is because it had a hell of a different job to do in ter.-^s of redundancy 
and reliabilitv as well as to perform its operation a quarter of a cixlion 
riles nvay froT. the Earth versus cperat in? 125 rdleS fror. the surface. 

71EIK Ilark Bioor. 

".XM To put your earlier corxient into perspective, I vcp.der 
i*- vou covdd imagine, or if you have any idea how ir.-.ny tires they, 
looidng at cur systems, would have said "Hey, what a neat littie laea 
-.0 dc, a distinctive thLng," corpared to the ti?nes ve .-night have said 
it, locking at theirs. 

r-^rUiA".' Thev' ve nevar said it .to ne. i rear., I can guess. I 
oould^guess that pVobably they did in certain instances, but, here again, 
it's Jurt a subjective point of view, l':^ trying t^ be honest with you. 
I can assume they dir., but — . 

BLOCM What I ne5::.t waf , I near., if you're looking at it as an 
engineer, do you think that we have a lot of , an avful lot rore unique 
features that they could have used or should have vsed or nigr.t use. 

CEKiA-'I Well, here again, you've got to decide vh':t they wan' t3 
dc If thev want to. go and have n 6 day or 12 day, - and they exteniei 
•heir GovMi, 1 think, to 15 days at one t i:r.e - if they vantto have a_ 
unique spacecraft that viil do that and then primarily cc- , i. you wi.., 
Shjt'le sracecraft to their Salyut , then you've got a larji neatly 
designed "littie, si.nple, efficient spacecraft. If you wnntea to go t3 


Planned Mission Sunimary 

SiS.n iiiSi<if.of ^^^^^^ 

orbit . 

About seven hours 30 minutes after 3oyuz launch 
(1950 GOT), the Apollo will be launched ^-rom the Kennedy 
SDace Center in a northeasterly direction and will be 
?f.:erted into a 150- by l67-loj (g^- by 104- statute mi ^ 
nrbit v;ith an inclination of 51.8 . About 1 hour alter 

polio orbi? insertion, the Apollo ^SM will begin the 
transposition and docking procedure to extract the Do^ 
it-LT :.:odule (DM from the launch vehicle. The extraction 
of t'- Sl^ vdll be cor.pleted by 9 hours lU minutes Soyuz, 
Srcurd KUpsed Time (GKT). An evasive maneuver of 1 meter 
ner"econd (N1P3) (3-3 feet per second) posigrade to avoid 
Kconta?t Jth the launch vehicle will raise apogee to 
about 167 'cn (10/. statute miles). 

The Apollo r-pacecraft will perform a circularizat ion 
maneuver at third apogee to establish a controlled Apollo 
rendezvous maneuver sequence. The rendezvous sequence 
establishes a standard geometry final approach to the 
Soyuz spacecraft. The first phasing maneuver (.*C1), wnich 
occurs at about 13 hours 12 minutes Soyuz GET, is an in- 
plane, horizontal maneuver designed to adjust the rate oi 
Change of the phase angle by changing th.?^<;^bi^f . f f,?;^ ' 
If necessary, a plane change maneuver {UPC) will be pti- 
formed after !JG1 and before the second phasing maneuver to 
place the Apollo in plane ^-ath the Soyus at rendezvou.5. 
The plane chenge maneuver will complete the first aay oi 
maneuver activities for each crew. 

* Moscow time is obtained by adding 3 hours to Greenwich 
Mean Time. Fastern Standard Time is obtained by subtract- 
ing 5 hours from Greenwich N'ean Time. 




(•c M E e 1 1 1 iiPkiAk .conj- 






















NASA-S-74- 13305 


NASA-S-74-1629 . 


4ASA-S- 74-8876 



2256 MHz 



595?. 4 MHZ 
6152 4 MHZ 
6352. 4 MHZ 


RANGE: 22.000 MILES 

3756 MHZ 
3955 MHZ 
4156 MHZ 



2277. S MHz FM 
2287.5 MHz PM 





Houston, Texas 
Febr-iftry 26 ,19'^^ 

HiU Reia, Public Affairs Offi>-e 

PC 12 

Btarted bare. We are runX « uttll ZtiVT""' '^^'^ 

Ken youn« vho win brief v.m?.! li 1 f^^""^* "^'^^ briefer is 

traJocto?y. an -3 so forth Ken '^^^^^-^^ 

mission. Really, I '^^oln' . ^. t' "'^ ^'^^'''S U tell yuu about the 

Planning an. Jy\l "?u^h ;rbrWi;'':irJ'^' '''' 

afterwards, if t,,t xcr.^f f i mL^J!^,^ '^^'^ qucBtions 

Next slide 

are a little di*-t>rr.rt . ^aixlng about sone of thera that 

this isr..t U^f.; h:vi. uM^n'^r^'Vl' -volutionld 

you all know ve «ea..u-e cubits c U- ct'J\'^" Revolution . but as 
crossinRs of 80" ves' ^ar^au'i^^ ^'^ successive 

tnis in t.. I- c/li'n^e f e SrtTir . ^-^^^^---11^ always 
conse^uer.tly arter «o - ffj^ h/^"''^"^ ''^^^ 

the Apollo trav.13 16 it^rtial ^rbit t^'f.'^*^^ ^STF. you actually . 
>arth, but Since the Eanr s goln. 'iith i T'"' '''''''' 

day. Nov, the Russians caU »?ei" Jvn^. . * ^ * ^^^^^ 

th«n fron cne a.conding node to f;/^! , " ^"^^^ ""^^^^^^ 

essence is a inert ial ccr biea' s" "rL^T'"^ ""^^^ ' "'^^^ 
is rrtating, if. still the M^e it ^LeT. ""^"^ ^''^^ 
and that is essentially th^ se^ as «f ? f.^f' '""''-^ ^'^''^ 
consequently, ther*. vlli ?! ^" inert ial or'^i t count. So 

«l3.ion - dlscu^Mon^a^'.rvh h r^v":: ^e^'^n^'^^^/'^^^S^ 
you are talking American or Soy.s tyr4 re*. S; "."^fr"**^ 
counts, but ,lunt Keep that in ^ind'-'lext slide 

n^anbe^;''^nftM^'\rour';a.t''!\^^altv7?^T°"' '"^ '"^ 

that ve have used for vt-ara vav h^^v'^^ > f f oaap^^ter type nunbei- 
an inertial rev cc .r;t "to^esr^. \" ""'^ '^'^ essence 

orbits you will ren iez;ouf s " or^s^" f ^^'^^ ^"^^^^^ 

.eans fr.^ the ti.e of insertion vfeount - the firstT 'i' 
tne first apogee and t-er it fa PO .r.^ , ^ i.'^ber is 

rendezvous Vet for the n^La^JLi^':: "e".:?'""''''^ " ^^'^ 
you can't read it all bu' nin-^P , ■ * "^^'^ ^'^^^^ a"'^ 

it viU actually be the^th Ao^llo . /^'^''^ '^^^ ^^V 
occurs on. Now for the alter^^^J ^^'^ rendezvous 

1^ or in the fifth opp^rt muj an J^^l^^^^^^f f ^-ies ve do an M of 
.ay rende.ous and sCce .ou^L^t\:L\\[: t rjr^un^^rthn.Jh 

J^^^p^cUveir^'^R^T! actually after if, «n/i^ v,' 

July and fh* P^ans are to lA.mL ^ launch viri- 

afternoon'at ai^Jt IS^H ^^'^'^^ ^^^^^ be I2^'t°" '.'f '^th of 

£ ^^^^^ 

»0v If ve don't get o- f^l'- '^'•^^ ^'<=10ck Houston'M . *^ 
tJnltita fv,»*. * that day vp "o^ston time, in jiji.,, 

later A^^ i apprr.xiaately 23 % ^''"^ alternate oppor- 

S m n,.ff,f;!^^'- the regression c^'tJr-^Sov, ' success ive'd'ay^ 

to Blip Into theVnter'^ P^ot ia .1"' 2 .t""^' ' The 

^ong like ♦htTf^r soaething. vo win k \. f,^^® ^'^""'^h were 

«llp fr'« Juli li^v "^*"«*« tSe Of liL a curve 

relation betveen th^', -^1 chi?11n t.^""'"^ '^^^ 

J^at they vant to deorbf^ "^onjtrainta for tht Uti 'V^ V^"""^"- 

^ three opportunities ue do U 

they win stay docked. I wonH g^l^t* the°/f .^'^ • 
mu-e how »uch Dick Truly might J? Hit It f °^ "<=t 

In these docked periods, bu? I don't ^?.n t ^'^tlvltles Involved 

These are definitely dlff«.ent ? ° * '^^^t then. 

, first three. Of course /S^ f^H J ^"'^^^ 

use these opportunities I 2^"^ ^ . J*^'*! "^^^^ ^^*^»' »«^ving to 
the next slide vlU shoC you^L n^lL^'^f? «^ this because 

first Of all, let ae say /also.tJ^^ tal^ ' ^ = 

a 9-day A^Uo mission L^d tS^t 1« 0 Zyl^. t." 

since ve caii not - the first dav J/^fy, .^'^ elapsed time in orbit 

the start of the 10th cre"day So tl "^t '""^ ^^^^'^ on 

and 9 others; officially^ e^ll ft Pl»«8 

said viu launch i.,to the^i Jo J^f 9;?*^ al^lon. The Soyuz as I 

125 aile. nautical nlle ..Lard ? \' ^00 to 

about the fourth orbit nc^Sv; he'^ W?" Tj"' ^^''^ 

to adjust for whatever Insertion disS^rlJL ! corrective maneuver 

hav. had. If. expected that tMrXj vT.^"* ^ ^^""'^ ^^'^^ 

Then T.5 houra after their launch at ^o^^^l^-''**■^ maneuver. 

the Apollo launches. And' oJ colse i L.T/ f ^"•'^O tine. 

same inclination pian« ad the So^^, . f ^"^"^ essentially the 

90-nautIc«lH»iit artelt, ^hich t^'^''^^^'^ orbit is 81- 

ve used. The SKyUb w^s J^e^xTrao^Li VL^'*** '^P^** 

18 It. the fi^-st big task nfter thev If ? f*^** ^^'-^^^S »o<J^l« 

at about an hour after i insert Ln *^t^^ ^"^'^ that begins 

j^oster and turn JLnd ^nrdic" t'J '^^^^ -d'of the 

lO'.Qh Scynt m% which ii^abou?^ ^ V ^ docking nodule and then at 

aodule ir extracted ^nd tVJ^So :*Li?r; the 
hour or »6 after that , the firfit ff ' ^ ^^^'^ «^'Jt an 

enable ua to m uX gU'tJy ?or\^hrr*'f ' ^^^o 
the first mi6t pha^tna Slnlhvli f * '^^'^^'v*"*. Then at 13,12 
elliptic orbit thrt^i^faSlfm ZTliTrt ^^'i^ '^'^ 
Soyus is in; ifa not a lot hf^i J ''^^f*""^ f'<* tii« or.* the 
to«aodate the nLtnal^'phaS ng Uuattn'^'^J 7""'' ''"^ 
other slide up here, this giJei^u I .^1 ^* ^ *«»^* the 

Apollo launch out at »^ aa tL s^lz ^^th 
Ha sixth orbit. And th* Soyu? U. JZl l^lT'f' "^^^^ 
R^«8ia at the tiac AdoHr ^ ? J***^ «oIri« over 

Cape about 10 ainutea earil*? it J^^i^^ J ,^" ^***»*^ 
actually it soea ovei- *^ n * " passes southeast of the Cat* 

' «h»t'3 the lenntht 

- i,--' - - "^'^ " 

length of the launch vindov? 

oat 4«iy checXing out "f. then tovard the end of tWT. 

vhich I - \rara'«-U casing correction «-uv-.^^^^^ 

OKay. Tn ^^^^^.^^^^^t^at ve h»d to oegotiate ^^*^Yne is their ln*l«t«nce 
thia ia Itiy^lla dovn to tvo thing*. One i« " ^^.^h 

let ae skip tht« thing righ^ 

00 to th« next iUde. * e It turna out thCit 

1 can ah<.v you Ih. ground 'f.^HrorrHin^ of «o«fUc^^ 

. T.^r!iL to Ret <iocHea over it U - we IIX* t-> docX 

their r^Monlnfi f^r rendoivoua 1; vherft th« docK* 

vith t^"!t;,fyi; vLt it 6«ount* ^^-that trt r«aUy not Idea 
over <wr territory i» _ , ^ orbits ""^ . .^a they vanted 

ln« vill oceur *8 you Cft^ Linp good tracxing orbit* VW«y 

to docx even *»^^i*/:'^i^era earlier , but ve I^'^^l^J^iHe «qalvalont 
through her* ^^^^'J^/^^ :Zoc^^ru^ on thlj ^ta^fa. thlt t'u la i^e 
ro%hrUtS ApSio^^ev hero. Of cour.». in thta ca. 

29th, but once we Rot thaf B-ff^ ^ . ' . 

rev. vhich occurs right rfovn 4.^. ®^ circulariz*. fh^ 

"thru..*"' r=si;:.\rdii"''' 

to be over there to telene^er^'o/tK^''^, T^^^ requirement for then, 

conproaise th(it ve felt like thev hf^ ^^''^ • '^^ ^h* other 

or for soae reason td allow t^J^ fJ^ ^"""^ r^^^om tor syste-nviL 



SPEAKER thev » 1-. 

to ««t.h the ground eUp^oV^^fso^u.l'' '^^^'''^ ^" ^he Apollo 

houro^ner Apollo lI^nc^ve'^wL' HVH ^^^^J^^Son of the firat a 
you viU avitch back to Som Oct l'^^'^ ^t^oii^ then 
Apollo ve eviteh back to a t iaX^ h ^'i!/''* the <j.orbU of the 

o « tioe frco deorbit. PST they call u 


SPEAKS? That will be some big gaps for data analysts? ;, , 

^V'-'-:-;:: YOUNO Well, no. , _ . _ ■ .-i, « ' > - - 

- SPEAKER : r Theoretical gaps? 

YOlWO It's not gaps', but it gets a bit confusing. It's 

really handier to work in Soyuz GET, since it's the first one launched 
and ve di'l a similar thing for Skylab. 

R£XM Do you have a question, Reed? 

REED V.'hat happens if for some reason they have no clrc? 

YOWO Not a vhole lot. It ia not a major catastrophe. 

1 mean ve vill have td make a pretty big adJust!nen^ in that fhasifig 
adjustinent that I shoved on this previous slide. If for some reascn 
thev didn't circularize, of course, that vould mean they have got 
something vr^.r.g, that would be the biggest worry. As far " go*r.€ 
Seai ai;? rende;vou5ing in that lover orbit it's no big problem 
us, and ve have looked at that situation. 

SPEAKER Do Vo\i have a mission rule about that, is there 

anything that «aya no or yes, or vhat.7 

YOUNG Ve have a nile trajectorywise that says what ve 

are supposed to do. What is not settled that I knov of is hov the 
tvo side* will decide, you knov, whether It is viae to continue ^ 
because obviously they have had some kind fcf problem. Because they 
have continued - see, they may miss the Hth orbit, but they have 4 
backup they have plans to do it on the l6th and/or the 19th if ihey 
set int^ some kind of ground Control problem. So if they Just fiit 
can't do their maneuver, that indicntea that they have got & real 
serious propalfcioA problem, probably. And pi^obably the rule is to 
Ro &h*»d and rendezvous because they might not b« able to deortlt* 
So I think the rule would be to Just continue. It would mean a big. 
a new big pi wing aftneuver but It re&Uy vjuld not change the rest 
of the rendetvous particularly. Any other question* on this? 

SPEAKfTR •'Vei' vhlch country will the first televisetl 

h«nd»hAke take place? I rend something about Bpait., i« that correct? 

YOUNl T think - Dick can you answer that? I've got the 

lijae of it here, of the handshake, but I don't recall exactly vrt#r* it 
is ever the Earth. 

fH\j],>( I've got the time too but I don't ... 

YOUNG I think it's probably on this rev right as you come 

through here, over Madrid, you are probably right about Spain. I 
don't knov. Since it is central daylight time, vhich is roughly Just 
a fev minutes after our launch time so it's in the afternoon, 2 days , 
after launch, so it probably is this next rev. : Let rae go ahead and 
finish with the final rendezvous sequence unless you have some real 
questions, I von't get into detail of vhat each one of these maneuvers 
does. It is the Skylab rendezvous sequence. : First here on the start 
of the third day you do the NC-2 maneuver, vhich is the final phasing 
maneuver in effect that just lovers the Apollo apogee down 20 miles 
belov the Soyuz orbit, and sets up the final phasing for the NCC and 
the NSR couples, pair of maneuvers, these tvo, vhich set up the final 
exact phasing situation for the coelllptic orbit vlth the Apollo 10 
miles belov the Soyuz orbit, and in a circular eccentric orbit. Then 
about an hour after that NSR maneuver - By the vay, all three of these 
are SPS maneuvers; they're pretty small like 20 to 30 feet per Becond 
in that vhioh is about a Second or less than a second SPS burn, about 
an hour after this one in the terminal pnase in' rcept maneuver occm-s , 
vhich is over here as ve go dovn through Australia. And then about 
30 minutes later after a couple of mldcouree correction mar.euvers with 
the RCF, the braking begins at a range of abou / 1 mile , very Similar 
to Uie Bkylab setup. And by this time here, the Apollo should be 
Btationkeeping right behind the Soyut. I say behind because the 
Soyuz is traveling backvai-ds and the ApollO will cone up fend go 
around to get Into position for the docking. And they have to per- 
form eome attitude roll maneuvers by both vehicles In this tlae f rane . 
8u-h that this ATS satellite can be acquired by ApOllO's antenna. 
And then they dock here as ve cooe over the Rusfiian ground stations. 
And after that - that occurs at this (Kf, (KT^l ^■>^florp - after tha^^^ 
they do the crew transfer and the first greeting ia ftt this tlae, then 
the Apollo coBsaander and the docking nodule pilot go into the Goyut 
a few minutes later and then they return about an h6nr and a half 
later to Apollo. Then the next day is totally a Joint activities 
crev transfer day, and Dick Truly will tell you some of those detnils. 
Next slide please. 

The fifth day is pretty well taken up by Joint experiments or 
joint teals 'vhat involve trajectory a&neuvers. The first one cotten 
when ve do the first undocklng at 95 hours and alnutefc. If T can 
have the other slide please. This is to start the^ solar eclipse, 
artlfical solar eclipse, experlisent , vhlch is a Joint experiment. ^ 
It begins - I'm traveling this vay ith the tvo 6P*J«craft fjf 
oriented such that the engine bell of the Apollo points at the sunllne 
and as you co«ae to sunrise they are In this position, vhlch is 
essentially still an in-plane. It 14 slightly yaved out because the 
position Of the S>in is slightly out of the plane - and the idea ia 


?S"?.'^«P>eL. A^UO .top, U. .ou™ .v», »8^,'«f,. 

.U v?tS The . r.approa=h the and th. ..con. 

Then avout a rev abi-c. uu. ^v^-^iu a'**.*- that vf> (to 

I <*<rAi undocklnfl occurs atiA tMn shortly a. .er ^n«^' * - 

. u^vtii:? rtio^ption «p.ri,...t . v^^h r 

«ni <ttV<kft absut 3.^^ hours to ccnplftte. I cc-iid nave tne 
rhrrTl?drupter:;?2oUld'brieny d^cribe the IWA .et.ence. 

Thie is a tine Hue relative to the Soyaa GB?r ani it al«o «.hovs on 
V Iti ihu^i travel around, me»sured froB the equator 0 and 230. 

L.«t"i'";"u r,fLctio„ • i/::rh!.r 'd"/ri°pouo 

onto t^e eoyui tilrrors, »nd U caMi t»« md is g.lhsred In »> ^ 


d,t, .t dlffe«n. ;;-fj'-„^'?,:J:,rp^°f t:Zl'X. .bout 50 «t,r. 
then laneuverB iovard the north 6ut of plane to ^P*^ « The*e 

there is a requlrcraent to separate from the Soyuz for the final time. 
Soyuz will take come photography, motion picture photography, of the 
Apollo as it turns around, and it does a 360**., pitch to pViotograph it. ' , 
And then the last WA data take is a ICOO-netcr range, in-plane data 
take . 

If I could have the next slide there an i show the relative motior. 
of the two vehicles during that period. Ttey are Initially the Apollo - 
this is in the direction of motion. Apollo la stationkeeping about 
00 neters out in front of the Soyuz and the Apollo thrusts down r real 
small maneuver and does a 360° pitch right in hei e about 8 minutes 
after that, or 5 to 8 n'-.utea after thAt , Vhe Soyuz takes the photog- 
raphy and then Apoll6 raaieS another small, roughly a hftlf-&-n»ter- 
per-second burn that puts It in a relative notion su that about 'iO 
minutes later it crosses above the Soyuz at about 1000-meter range here . 
Th.ese are meters scale. And during tV.^t tiof^ it shootfc the light 
source down at the reflector that is on top of th* ik-y^jr. and they make 
the final data collection. Thia Maneuver also servos as a final 
separation maneuver between t)ie tw.i vehicles. In essence, it puts the 
Apollo a little bit above, but mftlnly it Just begins to fall behind, 
it fallft behind the Soyuz at about , I think it is about 5 railes per 
orbit from then on. S6 the next day the two vehlClM ess*ntially are 
conducting unilateral activities. I think there la a press conference 
that next day, by the way, in-orbit press conf6r6nc«>. Next alide 

The seventh day, begirinlng the seventh crew day after 6 days in 
orbit the Soyuz pdrforaa its land - deorbit and landing tsequence 
and l&nejd Just northeast of the launch alte. If I can hove th« ground 
track here. I will show you eBsentially wherfe thAi occur} . The Soyui 
deorbit t&anduVer occurs right in here Just ui they gfet to the Asccnoion 
tracking zone. It ia theoretically possible that Asienelon couVd track 
thea with a passive radar, but there Is no plan to Ao that, that I 
know of . The ApoUc vili be trallinR by about 150 to 200 nilM behind 
at this time and then the tlojuz goes on In and lanls here 5n SOizakhetan 
at about 70 east, 50 north. Their launch site is right here Gff the 
Aral Sea at about north and 63 eaBt. And that c-jftpietof their 
mission, of course. Then the el,?hth and ninth diys, Apollo continues 
unilateral experiments, the nost significant trftjectoryvise of which 
is the Doppler - HA-069 Doppler Tr&oKlng Jitperlnent. This is done 
in conjunction with Jettisoning the docking snodul*, whl^h has to b«s 
gotten rid of before the landing, deorbii, «o it occurs the d*y before 
deorbit. And what happdna here Is we Jettison the locking module, a 
fev minutes later the Apollo aakea a aa&ll SPS burn of about 20 feet 
p«r second to wove about 300 kilonetera avay froa the docking tn^^dule 
and then it does easenti&liy an equal opjx&ilt* aaneuver to atop that 
aeI^a^atlon and sit at roughly 300 kilonetera distance for the n<»xt 
18 hours, and the vhf on the Apollo 1« used to track the tu»bUng locking 

that Is a factor. We planned to track then early in the raission with 
several of our stations as sort of a backup. niisBlon with 

SMPARD C-band only? 

; C-band only. Cf co'xrse. they have a transt.onder 

that they are tracking vlth and. of course, all they get irChen they 
pass over Russia, so their tracking is limited to tLl one part of tL 
geometry But ve. as you probably know, ve Just conducted a t'ackin« 
^xperlnent yith thea on Soyuz 16, vhich was very successful and ahoCf 
tnat each Bide, believe It or not, can determine orbitn very Cell M^rk. 

Forgive me if this was asked while I v&s A-it t.,,* 
v^en tho soviet, performed their deorblt burn ycu said th" L?e ' " 
American spacecraft vou.\d be 200 tsiles behinl. 

^''^'-'^'^ I thlK< it is rou;;hly ?00 alley. 

.SFEAKra I Rsauae that they eventually catch up. I3 th^>v> arv 

Chance that they will see them? Will they overfly them? "^'^ 

it9 Jn^'L If. iA^ and 49 P'.on as the Soyuz does 

frL Zn« ft i^fr^^"^i:f ' S^^"^' «= ^«*ed at even lookl.^ 
iroo tue AiK)llo at their deorblt raancTiver, but 200 miles ran«e la lus* 
beyond any seeable - you see a spock is what it Lk^u^U* to ^ 

SPEAKIS Where Ifl the Coyat durlrg th« A^lXo launeh? 

ioianas la tne closest appioftch. Mark Blo<«. 

t*i>, f!!^^v* At what point can the Apollo sjtronauta begin to 

talk to Che iloyuz aatroriAuts? * 

^•jk^^J^^^,^ . ^i^""*'' ^^""^ ^ question. I forgot. In m .vo, or, aj^d it is epec-rAted at I bellevo * at l^a vn^,^ 

they .:tp«ct to work further ouf ?han that Ba lo 
eurt doing tracking with it. tracking of the Soyui . right ftfter'hr 
iiC^2 maneuver vMn they are roughly 100 miles apirt, 

oth«r^S^!!l ^ """^y vay that they can talk lo each 

oth«r or can it be looped through the ground and b«ck upwards? 


' v' .tV, the Rround' 8 control. 

T>i»v can lo-.^? ■ . , 

'■^^""^ ' - ,,,,, t.e cosmonauts could .e talXing 

SPt^AKll^ ■ SotheoretUally.the 

to tne ratronaats at launc u ^^^^ ^^^^^ . 

That is possible, x l^n t Kn 
YOUNG ' ^3 theoretical. 

' no 1 .just wexit tw the - it 

less than Apol - »y uv.t vUl l)« the IftnRth of 

IV* nof« question. Vfr-a^ ^-^^ ° 

passes that for exaaple VMriu 

AbDut 5 Bitiutes. 

^.t *Hrough the Atr, bcv long vlil th.y r m 
6PF^m What awat -hroa. ^ for ro..«hl, 

$0 minutes ' 

„^ Fifty ffii nates. 

GFfAKER ^ lh«re are some Phases 

Yes. it is roaliy ff %.fMght direction, 80 you 

th« Aftta collection 

lh« aa^» ^" 

CM «»pl»4n U. Thftt ??^*T think it U houri vhlcb 

you firj.Jt'^ f p^^^ ui». Then thr .tarv 

•utcwUcaiy tiv« jrev J maneuver .nd i.pUah« 

of the lOth crfv day . th« if I could K»v« that last tUde - 

P«si that, c<m» JSin" thli p^iUlon. And thai 

w« land . JuH iS^O^U. U U about 1.5 hour. 

,nd« vhat •mntlaUy J* ^.Jj^J^'^AJd I gue« thaf» aU I n«ed to 

about that There Un't quite the urgency 

■ame wanner aa the BXyiao .-v.^ 9 versus 

recovery ship or »<»ethin« XUe thut . 

YOV!M That's not my Jot. Any questions^ 

We do have % fev copies of the alUes . They are 

Nov ve^l take a few questions Urt . M Shepard. 

SHEPARD Ye. . on the tracUn« of U.ejoy^... ^c,. .u.h 

tracKlr^ inp^its do >ou get fras oar r.S. etatlont 

^VM-' Yes we imve get - several of the U.:5. stations 

..V. ^U^^ or vlssive rldar ^upaMUty to traC .he Soyu. and - 

SHEPARD By means of uj>iatlng the Scy^it state vector her. or 

do you get that piped in frgn - 

'We get that piped in frco PuEsia at the priae - 
SHKPARD Compared to their PEFfNMAT or conpared to Oirs? 

ynm- WeU, they viU semi us their vector and ve will 

oo^^'Tv. vith our H± in'essence, they norxaUy will have nuch 


V KA8A for AT8^, P^*** ground ,utl.n th»t vlU u„4 

Priw ground ,t»tion for ATS-^ 

YOUNQ ft,. 

^AOM anuu. but U in |p«in. ""^^ '•'^ oo«v0r«*nt vlth 
8PEAKKR tf^ 

TV took ,.c.„. ao.:„'j\\r' ««»»u, u„„,.,i<,„. . 

SPSAXER . «» ^>48»U. too. 

«•« *nhwc«.«„t proc«^'fl rt,^^" ^hQU«h: &r« x«u 

Or U it ."^r^g^Jo'!^ ^ iil'^^** don?t^h: 

I car.'t really . Roy Se"^ Lt. V'"'''* ^^'^ have done a of ... 

YOUNG v-i, _ ^ 

tranafonwd In * ^hat the IV ouf \^#« n. . 

YOUNG V*. r 

X think that's right. 

break anj then ve vif?^ "f! "l^^^^Jons? Okay. Ve v? n . , 







^'NE U.S. F0« APOUO) 

REV 2-. .80- W. lONGITUOE 


S. R. FOR S0YU2) 


167 KM 

f,^7//V0us OCCURS 



M . 1) 

■ VOH.^ n'^'^^^S RENDEZ- 

BO" IV) 

150 KM 


















M -30 






y 44HR$ I6HRS 





M -14 




M -14 J21.6HRS 




7.5 HRS 

225 249 272 



DAY 1 

SOYUZ L/0 1220 GMT • 51. 8-. 188 x 228 KM " 


APOLLO L/0 1950 GMT (7^30"^ SOYUZ r F t s c, o 
150 X 167 KM ^UYUZ G.E.T.) - 51. 8\ 



O DAY 2 


; MA-048 SOFT X-RAY 

I I ■ I . I -nrTn- 

H Dtrknm (urth tKAinalor) ! 

70'? V (n) ^io rev count 

••T- H 1 j I 

JOHf P* 



i»- *Ml U « m ■ n. M nr k< frkTtha lint Ann! kALM I Mh amwlu nNw. 

Ah-T i8.5 km 

Ah » 18.5 km 


circular ofNl 
225 km 

3 Insertion - 150 hy 167 km 
2 Clrcul<ri23(lon 

2 Phasing 1 (NCI) 

4 Phasing ? (NC2) 

5 Corrective combinalloi (NCC) 

6 Coeillpltc fNSR) 

7 *Pt 

8 Braking fTPn cconetry of a typical sl.-I^Du^e coelllpKc njnouver sequence for 
:-!«. first Aocllo launch opporljndy, « r*.r lor 



'etLrn to Soyvz "^'^^'^vjr to 

Apollo achieves docking 
"ngv and terminates 
closing maneuve/s 

2nd Apollo RCS r^nitver 

Ofbit survlse 

AM numerfcai -^lues shown • 

Kf/l'\V°'i'*^'"5 Apollo data: 
nongliude fdeg), relat/vo range (^etc^s), 

^272.9*, 0.0) 
(281.9\ 2.2) 
(233. 9.7J 
5?93.9% 133,0) 
300.8*, 220.0) 
^314. 8*, 16.8) 


f^S-re ,2.. ArUfJcIa) ,o).r 

«?tpie ort,ft promt d.ring 

t^e Apollo 57th revolution and Soyur .... 

-500 r 




i -200 

■= -100 



DaU Ukt 




Maneuver for 150 m out-of-p!an« daU Ukt 
Mintuver for 500 m out-of-pl*n« data Uka 

Scparsllon rnncuver 

Oul-of-plane bum 

Begh (fata taVe sweep 

S'.vce? ccrrecUon burn 

End dau taVe $we«p 

Null cut-cf-pU,-.a veloclUti • 

photography 1000 n 
C 1 i'-s!;.-e 

t I r I r I r-~: i . i i i ' 

90 180 270 Eqca'.oc 90 130 270 Equator 90 180 270 E;i:Jtor 

Dcireei of c'btta! t.-avet - 

• ^^DARKTICSSg ^ DAYUGH^r^^gA^y'TESr. :-: ? DAYLIGHT "'^^RV:\eTs^^' DAYUGHf~gDA^Y.<S.S3^ § 


' " Soyui graur.a t'apsed llm«, h/:-Tiln 




■ Fljurt IS.- UVA aar.ejver profile. 


DAY 7 

SOYUZ LANDING 142*^30"^ S. G.E.T. 

DAY 8 





DAY 10 




■7-; ussr;'''°"*'''''--''^«"H"" 

-I t 

Target point 

Geodetic latitude «21.86°:i^ 
V Longi tude « ]62_ 750^ r 4~. 

i I 

J__Afntry interface . " " 

_M Geodetic latitude « 14.37*^$ ~^*~">w-"^-^— W 
• : Longitude = 159 03°E : 1 ' ! 

^ SP5 deorbit burn ignition 
, Geodetic latitude ^= 50.7O°S 

■; ; j , '\[- Longitude « 78.79°E *■ 

t—i — ! I-V--4— 4— L-l_i : , . . , 

-1 — 1-_ _ 1 ' 1 

» I 

. 5P5 deorbit burn termination t 1 

J Longi tude « 79.45°E' 

-T— f--' ^ 

^ 1 I L t 1 ' 

" " " " " '° " "° :V ,1, ' ,!o ' ;;o - „o; ,iow »o' 1 'i 

lon9itu<Je. deg 

Figure 14.-£ntry ground trace for «n SPS deort>it maneuver. ^^.^ 

liouston, lexas 
February ?6, iyT5 


Richard K. Truly, astronaut 
Milt Rein, Public Affairs Office 

PC 13 

" ^^^^^ ■■• '' An ' K ' 
'^re with the in - tre fTJf V ^^"^^""^ «^-ntle,non vrv n . 
who is one Of tL « i"f-ligf»t crev activities u ^ started ' 

f-.cnt I don't ^no; Tn "'"■l °' ^'^-^--re details .. . " " 

in Preoaration vSr» -^v spcndin/r the nevt f„.. '^'^^ this : 

that Will berir at ^^V''"^'^-^' ^= ^'-i^^'' overv'ev of ^^''^^•^^s . 

so yo^-U frv'e'a"';':"^ '''i -'-^-^ over tL . ,t ^ . ^r'^/^^-^ 

t«at yo. car, have t^' ^ "'^^ P-Hshed-a^ '^L f ^'^^"'^ 

•••'-''n oe doin,' her' ^" "^'^ derail tu^r . ^"'^ 

t.>at r'i ^oin': to le c^verin^ V '"^^ "^"^^^ ^^.eir 

u.' cf ;J .^hi^ afternoon. One - or'o "^^-'^^ 

•'ill be spo-.en w-- w ^V f'"' si^nlv .^T. ^^^^^''^ over the 

Apollo to ooyuz uii°V "'^'•^ i" >^^3lish. T?-e W f f'""'"" ^^"'^^ 

•ould be in r".-^;* -^"^sia... Co:v..u.nicat--on t 

pretty strair.tfor -."T ^- -^-tro.nau-, said it " '-^-.Ush, no ;r.atter 

have been trf^r r °"*''- ' ^ ^''^'''t to - -ol\ T"'"'" ^^'^^-'^ is 

^ -•^--o.r:- ... otHe;?'a;drt?; 

revert 3 to his Crlahr^-r ^ reverts to his F-s.;f„ '-'"^ i"to 

--urate the lis^e':- r.^r:,':" ' ^^^^^^^ ^'^C^^^^^ ^ ^'T'' 
-rolaoiy both viH sal^;.:;-;o " " ^'^^^^ -ou v i" i""^' . 

/o- via penerailv hear J v °" you' ..r T ; 

you to°SiVri'/'"''^' J^st a li.^^e bit" • a . ' 

conino nev to ASTP .as t.e.e v.e so ---;:;ernTn T"'"' 

tvo control centers; J-^^^^^^^^.^^^'.^KK and you don't have na^nes. I nade 
docvunents ar. referred to as AC. bC. M ^ ^^^^ ^^^j^,^ ,111 let you 

^vself a little score f ^^;;,t%hin,s that's ,;oinK on. Co. let re 

very quickly tell some of the major '^"^"'^ . ^ ^^i^ ^bout the day and 

talK ]ust a second ^^o;^^,.^^l-, n:,t 01^13 local ti.e in ..oscov. .he 
a half activities. n tai. far le^t ^^^^^^^^^^ _ 

second coluin.a from the J^'-^^.^^^^^^i^^.^ ^i,,.,. Vhe.e little shor^ passes 
column is the r.round - ^^^.^^^^ "^'^^^i^ the Soviet I'nion, and these are , 
are, for example tnis /^J;^^^;^'^^;^^ ^J, dotted lines coninf dovn th. 
ail our sides. 'i-us is of ^''■P^f ' , ^ ^^^^ . I don't vant to leave a 
left side -e ATS AOS Unes^ ^^0.'' near. tLt ve will automatically have 
wrong impression though l ^^^ve to be in the proper 

ATS coverage during this time, . , , sat^^llite, but this 

attitud. and have the high ^ain antenna r^cK^n, t _^ ^ 

is the - these are the oPP^-^^-^V TJ^;,,' i^'^'^^ace - this is a spacecraft 
ni,ht - nieht and day, so ^^^^.^''rS j ,,1,.^-.^ is rround elap.ed 

sunrise and this is a sv^<=^^raT; sn'^^'']: S^^.,^ ground Vnere was a question ^^l^^ difference but, after ve 

elapsed tin^e. '.he Ajx^llo - ^^'i^^'^tocvJ - clocks and that's what 

laanc..^Apollo,^ve^^vin ^ync j t^h^ ^^inow how " If you v-t to^.nov^for 

sone reasorSv-'lon.^ Apollo ^"^ "l^^^" .^•^^^r,rrL^Jriateno"^'ihis'pic;'^ of 
r-l/2 ..ours fror it --;;;.^^^^^;/i!^ Vf course, this is the corrand molule 
the 5pac3c:ait it.ea. ^^^^^ ^'^i ^^dule, and the Soyuz descent v.hi- 

the docking noaule, ti.e oo>u. ^^^^^^^^^ "° [^^^ .eviev them af^ain for 
cle. we alreaay talKea ^^^^J^'l^^^^,^ these 2 days. There's a 
you, ve.y quickly, because ^^^f /^^^ dockin, module hatch, hatch 2; 
v^.nrl hatch nere, wi.icn is .natch i, ^^-^^J^l. ,,.er the hatch between 

tais is tur.nel 1; hatch ^---/J ,;ire,l hatch 5- I've drav. 

twe orbital .oaule Z'^,,,^, unes on the chart at any niven 

this cnart in sucn a ways tha. t .e ^^^.^^^ ^^^^ , r. ^.i^^utes, 

tine represent a closed natc... ^Z^-'--.;-^^^ hatch closed. 

Which is just prior t^/^^;^"- .i^.^d, this h.tch clor.ed. and ve 
ve have botn natch - ve ha^e t^is ^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^..^^^ ^^.c,,., 

nave t..e hatcn - ''ry;;^'.^^,,^^^ v'.avo also sprinkled liberally throur.h 
vehicle ar.o t:.e oruital .r.o6x.^e. ^ . ^^^^ _ 

here. Just so you can keen up .itr. -.;o o y.c. r , ^^^^^ 
and vhich vehicle they're in, ^=^";^^,;^„i,r w!Jh vbo' s doin. - vho'fi doln. 
complicated Jast keeping up m ^""J^'^ .^.^ -...fore docking:, ftafford, 

..nat ana vnere ^hey are^ .or 1- a,^^^^^ Kubasov are 

Siayton, and i^rand are all .n -..e co. Cne other thinp. 

in the .escent vehicle preparing fo ,,er. a hatch 

I've - there's a nur.bei of pla^e., in ..e ^^^-^ spacecraft to the 

and perform a transfer, if you viU '^^^^^^^^^ and a lit- 

other. >^.d Where ^'^^^^ ^^"^ ■ Lrain in which dir.ctior.. Could 

tie arrow so you can t.ell vno s roin^, a..u a^^ui 


station coveral ^of^' I ^^^^^^^ Physical! v, and it L . f ^^^^^^ 
A*- /-"^^erage, botn of the AT satPiHf^ V. coincided with 

launch ™d the day prior t„ r, I ■ the d!v " 

to you, but it iTr ' '^^^"'^ ^ ^i'^n't thin? th't ft' 1 '^'^"^ ^^^^ ^'^e 
transfer in\t! to the crew, is the T'^"" important 

these events L .^f-"^"^ -tch tl.. that \ .es .o^'^;"- 

i^uUsov can look n tVefr '^^'^ ^^''^t transfer Tr r 

the - on thP ^'^'^^ '^'^ tell vhaf<, ^ I^onov and 

stays for th^s^i!^'^'''' ^^'^ ^^^ch. o'av 'S^'^"" °" ^"^^ ^tner s:i. 

between th^^ ri^„- 'during this period of tin« tv, * ° ^"'^ ^ ♦Tet in 

"oninal procedures fni . ^''^tch I*. One of f k '^•'^^^ ^'^tch 

i^tegrit? Checks th«r, '"^'^^^ l^nfithv is '^^'""^ ^"^'^t our 

to alloving t- e ,atch to^' '^"^^^^ -i-tes' b^t.e'e. fJ! ?° ^^^^'-^ 
tinpenc, naturalS^^ o ?.e P-ssurT- if'^ ou'^^rr^' '^^^^ 

iO^^O at night 
aeet each oti 

that occasion, r ^^^^t tine. ' 

^ook up the -x^v^r o IS - is - one of ^"hi T^^'^'^'-J^ '-"at foliovr 

connections oss the'r ^^^-^^-tions and [,e te ewr'""' to 
talked about rr'-nn to move t^ose j " ^i«<^trical 

' ^° appropriate spacecraft The^:^?"' '^^^ ^^^n-n 

-f^ere s a period - Cure. 

' It fnr the nlVe? Walt for the mike, please, 
j^m,. Would you wfilt for the ni^e. 

cvnrt this zero vfttch tine now, is it p.oln<^. 
yPE/JCLH ■•. '^t^-en on out? /aid If no one says anything, 

to be ne,ativo reporting f'-^^'^^^^f^^ °\rp;inr on schedule, Ib that 
the other cuys assume th*t everythinR Ro r 

r^nerallv there ore certain preplanned reports th^/*- 

SPZ.\KtR OKay. 

TRULY l-^'^'' exanple - 

You do that in addition to your nefiatlv. reporting ... 

reporting, • • 

• it vor oxar'Ole, rii'ht hero, there is 
Yes, ^-^'f '^ "!^^^;,,-^^,::uk hat says, ' Inform 
a place in the rhecV.H.t - /^'^ % ^""^.^ of a thinr- B-at - but 

Apollo, I an ready ^^^^^P^ J"^^;\'';.,,;^.':'not a lot of talV.. 
generally, there's not a lot o. ^^ 

- nav be obvious to you, but it's -t to^r.e. W^v do 
Vney s;rth;'ir vatches to zero7^s the point of all .ha.. 

rr^ <nt Vp\1 I Kuoss ve could have writte-. the 
ThUl.Y -^-e ''^^i'.i ^?ay plued tor.eth.r is by tinir.: 

procedures a aifferent ^^'^ ' "ZX.Z' . -''^'^ ^'""^^^ 

the cheO.list, in other -"rds, b, . ^^oinr to or^en h^tch 3- 

V.ns. And at ^5 ninutes into ^^^/^^^^'■^^;f /and the guy ha. it 

so those are Jus ^^^^^^^^t:. it could have bee. 
on his vatoh, ^ ■ s ^.usv a ^ - - 
doiiC a different way. 

,<w,e o-.acr reason. Yoi.'re a>.lo™tlcall> -eroeo, 
f ercnce . 

-.«f^-rirht. -.hat's rifht, M's rirht. yor instance, 
^'^^^^ ^''■f'- -,,.vt in the flip^ht nlan to set 

set watc.os to .e™ vo have a / '.''i;' i„t, - 

"4"?art'.™; «t5;H:.-T,er;, t.^ still cow.ts. C.,. 

t.e „Ar-t-e;rr.f^a-Urci ^ie 
joint group tine, you nifht say. 

time, anu at about this point In ihl . ' ^^^"""^ * at»out sn^^^r 

astronauts and Ivo cosr.>n'^iL. Ciu^'J^f'^ ^J^" ^our «uy,, wo ' 
And Vanee viU eat his ae-u over In t> *"^*^ together over in the Govu« 

samples, and ^ forth, '-hat.- are to ^rZ^' 1"" sol.ntiflc ex^e; rent, 
spacecraft, ue svapped. And a'^n t ^^^n-'' -erred across to the other 

r.^.^^rf -^-^^ r.;;i:\^-,^;-« ^^ov^e, ^^^^ ^°ther 6 done at tJils tine to let i L Inserted and - and so - 

overnJcht; It taiea several ho°rJ i?, '"l""- " '»J, thtm, 000° 

""ere t!,e tvo astronaut, to b^k in.f V^' ' t,^^ ^f. 

--e'a- :.:t^--Ls: LVL\';f r ■ - dt«nr'= 
:rT- - ~-i"not.r 
i;j^r%rr:'r'""» — ^.e. ^.-ot^;;.,/ 

ora«r.,l series of e! J ' - l4y 

for c.«.i,ie. res^f'',;*'.'.''?"™' oi,e„i„gs ? 

Ton .tarrorr^;,,rl e s vToT ,r AlS^rj^iT"^ 
-nlngs that you ctn exiect that vT, > C *° t«i TOu eo.. 

fo""^ set soie" r »;7JT.V"""'^ Lr/wix 
craft, ir. other vords, vin "„ " "wdule or hot'. !„" 

^.r ue people - the B„,sia„ '^^i;" ^he doeUn. ^.^af 

b^ioh of s,;e„ce dei-nstrations? iTlT." T -^^'^^I'xjr 

the .ea-r - :.r^t- \rr" 

period of tl=c „,„ i„ our o™ =T ""f"' ' ' /, ..tins 

SPiCAKKR _ A „rior to t.. fU.-U 

are -e 

SP>:AKA.H oris va. al. o.. ,,or/. 

t,-,rc v'U be a 1 Ui of Uen. i^u. . -ion 

.■■wfvrvv 'Okay. ■ ■ ■ 

bPwtKr-Jv . any of these 

Kollovin, uv .... sa.,e ^^.^v prin^rily fUr. 

p...y/t't-Vev...o, sconce .e^n..-.. .o.. 
U just nent.onc'.l. 

1 b.l^' V. -y;;f;,,,ion9 ar- :M ^"^r;:, . recorder U.- H.v 

t^r^:^ m ^.'^f.^^rr SJ: -o. of 

^' "JvfAnat'. schelulea t: '^^^r/ ^ . t^.e leH chart - A..ln, 

The noon it'^ "r'ar f^r. .V^i" *'^ to zero for t.As p , ,.^,sfor bctn/. * , eke nr'i 

transfer, the enu r.suK o ^ ^^^^^^^ .^^ ,^^,^gov r. v, 

:r/^ MK' lor - on^ of t.. V. n,c ^ J;^^^^^^,,.^ 

inr*. to vor/-. o^i^ ; ' .^^^ ^-e ,lo it in, w€ c ^ j 

.T" "/o .'cc,;:rui ,nd . Jo"-.;.^.-- - 


foUowin^ that occa-i^ ■ 

over -n - ^^13 point fn » u ' '^'*f>"-"r:fin «nri ^' -a>f?n 

aim tne t-.-o " ^il of tht> « . ^^^^ transfer i' ;^^V the 

biological crt ' ^-le - reason it Vlf^''"'^ 

^"'--^ - -'o.:<.- ^nei ^sic/aiv v-.,.. nf'^'"- been cv^r ^ 

i^v shov.. periods vhe^-r^Kr! ^"^^ "^^l and - 

■ '-fiPrc are three in 

'i'hank you. 

vy -\, rjerc. But < , . . '^^ *^^ief r^rifwfe 4 ^ 

op- ^KVJ( " Dick, for that first tneal, vlth four cre-.-nen on the 

■ ^^^^ vol nlan to htwe two havinp, l^nch - or whatever is - 

in the dcckinr, module ana twu m 

•I vrvn rnupezo real hard - this - in the - in ■ 

ti.. r,«l prcp^ralior. a^.d Kind ol B.tncr all ^■"^ ; 
dc«n nroui.J tho table nn l havo Dupfo.- or or 

bn^o you opcMd 5. thot stvs or»n durinn ttic 

to be. 

at iiiif.r l( 

entire scene? 

.;VJLY That's ripht. 

ix. you envision anv occasions vj.en ar. irterpretcr nlf^ht 
,et of "Hin. to erpilln Toi: Russian to t.e /..e.icans cr sone ..«Ush 
to the Hussiana or - 

;o,^ULY Air-to-tJ;rouna? 

Si'^ira Yes. iiave you practic-4 that - is t^firc any .-ason to? 

In iisteninfi to those - 

-,rY ves. Kranklv, I can - I can ina^i^e conversations ^ 

."t^at be helpful, the lan^age is a problen. I think you d be 
w..cre tuat f;^';y,r/i.vt _ ^ I've said I'm a nevcon^er so I've ohly 
surprisec, frru-iX./ ^ « as i ve saiu * _ _ cownauts in the last 

■oecome personally acquainted, for '^^'^'^P'*^' 2^^- ^'^^.^^tH at ne being 
;:uple K Sveeks and I've been -^-^J--^^,^..)'^' t's s^r't nL 
abl« to .poak no Russian. ^''^'^''^'V-'-^l^^i:^';. where it 

r.^"a: i:t:?p::t:ror^h; Jine! ti^Mrneie.... ve.i ao th.. 

isn^t an to ...^^^^^^ 
one aasicr.ed to the fli.-ht rtirectcrs'r Is tnai rtrU. Tou ju.t 
ov<>r ♦<} the - 

„.„. v "i-V, rl.vrt Bu^ I thinV that vould br ft rroSiJ error. 

I thirf tl CAPCO... ;nd\he1ught dt Sector ought to have the .a.e interpret 

l^!'%Z ,o. enough problems -^'^^"^ " ^J^f J^J!f^^S - h ' 
If VP had a dlffcront interpreter or translator, I don . thinn 
that Vbuld be a r.i ;ta>.e. Between t.m CAPCWII - 

Tliey're rioiht toecther t .ere. 



" ioV;-^-£f ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 


available nn '-v ^ , '^"■"^ hours in tota^ .i^ 

on live coverage .urin. these a ° ^^'"'''^'^^'^ ...e 

again the - T/.ese A'i ^ >^r-ov. t , , 

- cannot du.p '.^^f.^^^^/^^^-- is that if vo rca "t"' '"'^''^^^ ' 
Plan to cover selected L . '''^'^-" So ther. v iJ'k ^^I-vision, 

n'^^ber of hours is t "^'^^ ^ k^oC ! 1' ^ television 

IHULY , " ^'^'^^ i^-o that? 

^■ot that I },nov of. 

hypothetical situation ^"'"'"^ " '''"^^^ authority? in . 

•minutes. i',:':; ' t do it .Lh' 

eve:.t t ere\-T*" '^""^ ^^^--se. ; the nnJ ""' ^ , 
i'HLLY tna., . 
^'n sure its been ^ ^'-^^ an . r _ r . , 

selectei continrencv Tit f." '^one to ^rJ, . V, ^ 

so vc. have spen't a t^^" "''"^ t^^f^.^^V. '^^^ to iCentir, 

^ ^^^'--^onally don't kncv W,at vould happen 

co™.„.„, = so. ^^^^^^^^^^^ 

■-r .ichievinf; orbit? 


I'm not sure I ' 
. ^,rit.ated that question si>lc is 

.n<ULY ^^^^ : / "fror our - the ansver to t fron ^^^^^^ 

r„n ansver to It. :fron ou tunnel hatch in module 

Knov the full ere behind the ^^^^^^ ^^l^rsuc"^^^^ ' 

^iTu^'e.^'we have V-viously -e - the exp^^ .ovn the -e^-^ 

♦ hHt we Just aon t req pvoecte^i loads or t..e pranV-lv , 1 thmK 

Knov the ansver. _ second. Have -'-e 

,,^-^in(. uo on that for ha., a - f,i,,..t 
^^^^^ .,3 ^:;i::^^nenls, su..esticns.^^--^^^,^, ,,ve th. 
,,.v safety detaU , ar a. con. _ fron^ co.e ..on 

pU.n cone ^^^^.^^^rlrev safety .u, o. 
cr-jv suty^estions crt. 

or any fron tuen7 ^ ^^.^.^ 

, "a sorry, x '1°^' ^ , . v,ncV.vir :s m t.r.c 

•->niY Jules, ^ ions vr.lch la=tsOac. 

VranKinr. about Ua^- ^ 

You have a question ri.-^- 

Xf 1 understand ^''^"^^(JI^Vo carrv out sor.e 

unscheduled activi 
T.i. on thin flirht? 

S?^^ aoUclubn? ^ V.noun vh.t to 

expect before. J--^-.\,,.^,, an.v.r t.-^;^;;-r; ,-vibrar.. rerson.Utles 

Une and plenty o. -.^q., vhat •■'■^^ ^^.^^ 

1 don't knov -^ - I 

Anv «ore quertion37 
p-^AKVH Vhis one is not reared to.ard 

GPi^H , Vert? 

•^,ere' ^ the Uquor cabine. V.ep _ previous 

missions, this - on 


we were fioing to carry winn, but somewhere alonp: the line that (rot deleted 
I^d I do?t ?hink theie's any vodka [sic] on this nission or anythirr else. 

SPLAKEH Are tlie Russians carry! nr. any? 

TRULY Hot to my knowledge. 

«KIJI Is there any more questionn? All, that viU - 

we'll vind it up for today. 1 rer,ind you all. all the news med a 
people, and others that are here for this activity, they are Invited to 
a Uttle get-together about 6:30. Yes .^^ 
Bay Hotel at - what is it, Riley - Is it - 50U, 506, suite? 

SPLAKitH «^ust listen for the noise. 

j^j^j,; ■ Yes. Just listen for the noise. There'll be booze 

and hors d'oeuvres, and entertainrLent. 




MuiliS I 


ni20 -n 03:20 -n 

00*20 -Jiei^o -J— 

Hcrjst cr. , Texas 
February 27, 1975 

V-rifi'-iv KubaJ^ov, flight engineer 
nadlnir' shatalov, Chief of Cosraonaut^^ 
D-naliK. SlaytofM docking isodu^e pile 
Thoaas F. Stafford. Apollo comander 

jV' 1'' 

'i^^^ Ladies and geritlemen. This morning our astronauts 

aj-id our colleagiies from Russia, the Soviet cosmonauts, have Mesired to 
get together with those of us here at the Johnson Hpace Cent^-r who have 
been working for the past few years in bringing about the Apollo-Soy^jz 
Test Project. Mciny people, both here and in Russia, have had a great 
deal to do with bringing about the training of the cosnonauts and the 
astronauts and they feel that they would like to sreak with vou this 
norning on tha^ subject. I'm very pleased that they were desirous of 
aoing this. I think it begins to shew that all of us are indeed verv 
intsrerted in the mission that is approaching. I think all of us here 
at - and cn both sides recognize the importance of this mission to the 
feature of space flight. It certainly is the first step in - of p-obablv 
raany to ccne , of space flights of international imnortan.^e . And a-e^ 
indeed fortunate, you and I, to be a part of that first step. I thirJc 
m the future ve will see many, nany missions that vill take uf, not 
cn^y to tne '.3ef>ulness of space around the Earth, but probably to the 
stars. And .T:any of uf . at least who are youiig enough, will live to 
see exploration cf not only this solar systen we live in, but the 
universe ^ •; -^jelf. by cooperative .-nissions of the world rather than anv 
o.'ie par-_icular country. So it's a real pleasure to have these fin-^ 
your.g nen here this rooming with us and I'd like to introduce General 
£:tafford who will act as the MC thic norning. Tor. 

STAFFCRli rhari:< you, Christ, Renbers of the Johnson Space 

Center staff. This niarks a very noaentous occasion in that this will 
be the last tine that the cosaonauts vil] be here in our Joint 
t-.ining effort before the flight. C-ar group has one aore flight, 
one nore trip to the Soviet Union to ccraplete the tralninf , then w» 
laiunch in July. Hov. I k.iov. loohir^ out in the audience this morning, 
L see people I've worked with occasionally but soKetimes r w:>n't see ' 
you for 5 or 6 aonthr. ind the sane way with the rest of our imvv- 
cenbers. So this Just gives a chance Just to get together jurd eay 
thctTik you. I'j like to introduce you to the crcwtr.etnters . They ail - 
all cf us - V-juii like to havf^ the pri.'^e crew come up and say a few 
word.-?, I'll star^ with the backup ere v. It's conanatided by Alan Seai. , 
hid *v .fj J c ■ n ,,,,1 » „ 

■•' ..^. .^v. cjew.„.i;.i . Hi. non ^vaT;s>. vno 

fi w ct; '■.Mlli.r Backup ... Jack ujusma, who flew on the second 

Skylit. I've ,:-t a *?reat support teeua. We'll have three people 
working at? r» --municator here in Hons tor., besides doinu; a lot st other 
work, «n-: •ilf:: we'll have one workln,^ thr Control Center in Mc-so-v. Next 
tl^' .1'}'''' I "^^'^iy. h**Ii be a Iwmch through rendezvous 

J^t'O'-!. jv-t-k-; , vh.^ will be prir.'iry one during the Joint phase. 
Bob ovei-neyer, vhc will fee In the K:>gccw Control ■ Cent er for us. And 
Bob Crippen. At thi- tine I w-uld like to have the other two crev-pmbe-s 
to cone up. First Deke Slayton and thf-u Vance Brand Juct to give vou 
% couple of short words about the nlseion and what we plan to do. 'oeke. 


--IrTr i:??orr;" , 

sounds a lit.le undignified -^^^f-.^;-^^';^ 'Le c^her cho ces of words 
pilot, ye. can drav your cvn conclusions on ^^^^^^J^^/^^,. , ,o 
there. B-it - I vnsn't too sure lor a vh.le in of^^;^ 'n^og blacV. 

dS^:; to look at the eanipnent. The -iockine nodule ^^^nat . ^^e bla.. 
pieee'of gear there betveen the Apollo ^^^^^f f a - 

L construction it really isr.' black; U ^ .ust ^ J/^^^^^^^ 
four little tai-J-.s .trapped on tne side o i.. ^ the 
gear. And 1 suddenly knew what ray Job real./ . ^^^^^ 

Lid's fastest, highest, flying f-''^[^;f /.J^ J, Russians in 

, J . „i„ •v^^o inRt vpc> . Ve ve been -lun 
ny n nd ".^^^^ "''^^H-, haCe a fev cameras onboard. In fact, veWe 
the joint ;f .^;^^;Vrp^ople v-ith caneras taking pictures of 

g.t cameras taKin^ ^^^V"^!^^ °i, ^t^J^.^er . Ve discovered ve had one 
..ople -^l^'J^^Z^;^ birthe side of another canera. And 
;f r :^^lrth«e%aSeras around fron one place to another go ^ 
:ie':abl;s^:n:av:ied, connect the ^-"^1,^;^; : enc^^n a 

ail of that .ort of U^. . f^^:'^^ ^^irj ^-^^ ■ 
Kiscrnsin ^-^r^^^^^^^J^^.^ra t because if I art, ve would surely like 
way. I Yr^pe i 'a s,.cceb=,tui at ..j ^nfU be the closest 

- n;',-- '/,r^i V . 1 1« u fi?;-. h.„i. t^.^ you, 

v<? con cone to j jiws 1 1- ■•>■•' 

verv rauch. 

.V .-^ « tr-.c-h ac* to foiltv, I'll tell you. I 
-ver Kncvs .j.,,^. , teen practicing ar. 

„ .A.^,,^,. , to be standing up here ta.^inn^^' ycu ^ * 
M'AU^ , .01 .... . ..-i.-v', . around a table ar>--'. in neetmgs and 

•isei to talking to so nany o. ^'J^-^jJl ain-e I do have the 

,ust doing the thlngj ve ^--f^'-^^ ; ;thin. that I never 

chance o stand up 5iere ^ have the vork that j-ou're doing. 

i'm en^loyihg planning, for it and i hcpe a lot of you are reaii-y 

It vouldn't be proper to 
en loving Retting ready for it the way i an-^ Russian. Since 

really, s^ing vhether or nc -J appropriate tMr^ vouU Ve 

Thank you, .... -^''-s- 

■ . T VA'-e - va.-,t to have the cpporvuni-.> 
STAFFORD At this ^"^l; J ^^^.3 -^eai of all cosi^onaut 

introduce General ^Ivfiearned ^ol'.n.v him as ^ 

training. Over a P^^i^^f^/'^^ti J cosr^onaut. , in fact been worKX.,. 
fellcv coUeaffie, as ve ^'^'^ ' > it right in our office very 

,og.tner for these 2 years. ^^^ot'^ vith then^.. 

;:fl. It^s been a ;^^^/.fJ ;,",r/ ^.e Soviet Union. He nov has his 
Shatalcv has flovr, three ^he cosionaut trainlr.g. 1 --^vxld 

Office in f^^l'::^ vi^^i; Shatalov. 
like to introduce fje-.e-sj. 

SHAT.M.OV (Russian) 

SPVA>:?B Dear la-ii« an! gentlenen. 

SHATAIX/^ (Pussian) ^ 

a great privilege to see here so -nany enployees 

of Johnson Space Cent'..'. 

HHATAuOV (R^^ssian) 

.P,;^,. It's perhap. the greatest meeting today, during, 

2 y,:!:f;e have spent in our joint vor.. 

^-HATALCV (Russian} 

„ .MS .rea. a.lier,ce ,.=v. a re., a,..--.>e .0 0... 

Joint vork snd coo-oration. 

<^>HATAL':>V .; Russian) 

. .v,^ ur-vU' vr^r.u, w,i in other 

countries all over the vorM v. .ee - ^ 
our ,1oint vjrK. 

SHATALOV (Russian) 

BPFm3^ Of cour... ve are very pl«««d - un4er.tan4 

the Z^--c, or our joint worK fulfiUed by ue. 

BilATALOV (Buaalan) 

«v>EAKKR For aUut 8 year., Qur Joint worX U going onv the 

...^oYT. B^clallate, comonaut., anri astronauts. 

SHATALOV (Riie»i»n) 

in MO4C0V in the M'inne-i Space Cent*/ namea aiT,c 

. v«r« Sovux cosmonauts and also lend 

SHATAIXV <R'4»9l&n) 

SPiWR Ani moat ' 

6 great help, assistance to theu In their vorK. 

SH/vTALOV (Ruaalan) 

very large here, perhaps sone of you do not Knov aom 
35iATALOV (Russian) 

SO I vr^uld UV.. to IntrodMc. the ere-ws of the Soy.a 

spacecraft . 


SPEAK?2^ ''''' comander, Aloxel Leonov. You Xncv 

him perfectly veil. 


i« »>,« ♦■4ret man to dare to 05 en the hatch and 
BPKAKBB he is Ji^/^,.^;^^,^, ,l^ost the same , 

Joint flight ApoUo-ScTri . 
SH/\TALOV (Russian) 

SHATAIOT (Pusslan) 

SPBUCEI. AM other ^ of ^.c .r.v i* K.l.,ov. 







soaetrilrjig Hko that 


participated in Joint fUght cf three spacecraft 

And he vat. the flrn do voiding !„ space. 

Ho v^mted to eook borbeque. 

As I understand, this flight they are gMng to do 





The backup crev. FiUpctenkc. Comander, 

Nicolai Hxikavishnikov. 

They vere in space tvice. 


prcgraraa . 


Shutt:.> Prcgr;in 




Of course, we contir.ue to put Into life our national 

And you succeasfuiiy continue your Shuttle problem - 

In the Soviet Unior., ve continue our Sai.T.t Progr..-.. 

SPEAXKH Ju^t recently 8cyu. I. fUg^t 


A,. I the crev BucceaefuUy worked onboard of that 
apsioevTHft about 1 nonth. 

OHATALOY (Russlar) 

Uex nilpchcjiXo and Hicolai BuXaviaim 
reitaMUty of those spacecratl. 

SliAT/vLOV (BuaslajrJ 

those nights shoved good training standaris 
.,,d good knowlei^e of the hardvare. 

SHATALOV {B'.s8i^.n) 

. 4 t.. readiness of tV*e l*oP^« to do every t hi r.*? 

SFEAKffl l'^-^ ^Mn fU«bt of So^n wid ApoUo. 

vhid, is necessary for the joint fUgnt 

SilATAI.OV (miasiar) 

, , T u . >-d like to say that ve are 
AV^Ml-R And in conclusion , I v.i.d like 

very tha,^kful to Doctor ^raft, 01,tw 

-HA'^ALOV (Russian) 

.4 ...reciate your vork and the vork of the whole 
SPEAKER Ani appreciate ^o-- 

fwsily of the Oohnson Space Center. 

■"KA'^ALOV (R-asaian) 

of the Center. 

BHATAU'V (RussiaiO 

...^ A^s'-^-ince vhich vas given to 
cr-vftKv? Thank you for good ass., .^n. 

v^ars cf cur vork here. 
liS during <i years ci 

S-,1ATAL0V (Russian) 

SPFAKKR Tha'iK you for cooperation aiid even for extra vurk 

after training ^wurs; In the evenlnge, even on rw»tur4fiy5> . and »ometime8 
Sundayu . ■ ' 



8PEAKER And I - and I would llXe to eay that ve viU io our 

utnoct for our continuation of the Joint efforts for future cooperation 
and for future prograna and for f^^turo flights. 



SPEAJCER And before introiucirig again fcr short speech, 

Alexel L«onov and Kubasov, I vould like to say once »^«-« « ^ll^-'-^y^^ 
for cooperation, good lucK to you. good luok to your fiunlliee. and 
only - everything good for you. ThanX you very axxo).. 



English speech 





Thank you very much. 

Di-. Kroft aril Dr. Umney. 
(Russian ) 

!>ar friends, coiRradea. 

You are surely expecting to hear froo us pure 

- but somehcv, today it's not going vjrk out 

- primarily because of the fact that our lanj: - 


English ianguige is so saturated vith technical lorainoiogy . 
LEONOV (B-issian) 

SPEAKiTrt And basically because today v:' want to find aa 

nany vara and ^v-rsonal words as ve can possibly find. 




TMb ia the first tim« that w«! are «B«etin>? vUh vou 

In this manner, 

IJSONOV (Rueslar.) 

SPEAKER An! it ia the flret time thrit we eee everybotiy vh-^ 

Is working on the - or many of thQBe vho are working in the upace effort. 


SPEAKJW And this la the rirst time thai we see everyboly 

together, those people who are working with us constantly for the 
fourth time in our space effort. 



SPEAKER And today, all I would like to say is a big sincere 

thank you frc«a the bottoo of our hearts for all of your help and 
coofierat ion. 

LSONOV (Russian) 

SPEAKro This is the fourth training session thai we are 

having in the United States - 






very well - 




work ins - 

(Russian ) 

- and also, the final one here, before the nission. 

There is only one reeeting left m the U.S.S.R. 

I must, aay, that all four training sessions went 

- that we received what we wanted, 

And today, we know exactly the way we vili be 






placed on both 




- and what ve hs/e • r. t . 


^^oughy.., efforts- 

- In ^ mon-.hs and 16 days. 

wur efforts into 


we fully , 


-^"^rder to complete this v:,,. 

In order ♦ ♦ v . 

- for your intense v.^rjc. 


country there i<, <. 


Wonaii'a Day. 



Ev«ry year, on the 8th of Mwch, vo coletrute 

Thai day, the vooan in ail' vei everything. 

They are even allowed to argue vlth us aVcut the 

factlhat they ar« more inportanl In th« faaiiy and about their rights 








of the vcraan , 



And ve are alvac^a in agreenent vith thea. 

On the 6th of March only, h^r-vever. 

It's a beautiful spring holiday - 

- and always there is a question about the role 

-rruiAnn There Is one question that v.> viil be aE<:ed by our 

wives aJld the vonen In the U.f ..^.H. about the role of the v-^.n in 
the United States. 



And 1 must say that it is a great orn^ 

CPEAK-R And because I consider that apparently the space 

effort vas aoccxnplished mostly by verier.; there arc nore of them in -h 
euditorium today. 



^,U,. an., our fr»or.>,. 

time in order to start tr.e p 

KUBASOV (Bus.ian) ,,tronaut. mt-», 

,He -^^vUt co^nonauts .f?^^, f/.tl; July of '7=; 
in orHT to start the prer 

, pas. - durl.. the elapsei tl.e sUce 

'^^^ f haA B-^ny meetings, 
then , ve have han m-ii y 


BFcAKKB . > fission, 

in th^ preparation for that 

^.i (Russian) 

preparation, when the ti^e pe v 
space . 


KIIBASOV ,riu to the united States. 

o-ir last trip 
SPF-AKEB i!Ub - 

(Russian) , . 

WS^--^'"" <-nrtft\)ly that the training 

And ve can say quito '^"^rvlve gone very veil . 
'■''■^fv.n .laet in these past fev vee^« ha^e g 
that haa taken place i. 


KUBAJJOV (R\)8»l«m) 

Ve ir^in not cnly on th« approacl., docking, and 

KUBASOV (fKi8»i«n) 

SPFAKro - we have alao trained on the Joint activltiea which 

involved eating together, taxing photographs, movie pictures, tele- 
vision broadcaata, ar.d variola other ac Uvliie*. 

KUBASOV (R»idBi4n) 

SFFAf^iR We have one itore aeetin^ in the U.S.S.B. 

KUBASOV (R'jsslw^) 

fiPF:A>.^R But even toifty, we can draw quite a few conclusions. 

KtjBAoOV (Russian) 

S^-:aKER «9 can see that moat fuvi all of the probleos that 

have arisen betwter. the cosmonaut a and nstronauts have been easily 
dealt with. 

3PEAKEH i have prlaarily in nir/.. technic^ problems, raoh 

as transfers or the docXing before that, or the approach before that. 

KUBASOV (Russian) 

SPEAKIR And the fact that ve have been able to take care of 

these problens, 1 consider extremely important. 

MIBASOV (Russian/ 

=^PEAr'^B The second thing I would like to point out, is 

that' a very friendly relationship has evolved bciveen the nstronauts 
and cosEcnaut f> ■ 

¥3jb AGO'/ ( Ru 5 3 i an ) 

S?-AKm All astronauts are very nice guys, and it ia very 

pleasent for us to v.^rk vith them. 


KUBASOV (Russian) 
f,.r fhf^^f * »^«'ythir.t{ in order to oaKe U that 

KU0ASOV (nusflan) 

is ijoing to \)o «>ti.-jt«ine<i, also, after the .uteaion. 
KUBAIJC.V (R-assian) 

SPEAKER Also, leoJdes the vorK vitn the aatronaute wo hava 

^njBA£-OV (Ruaslar.) 

for ^ ^'-'^^ interesting experience 

WBASOV (RuBsian) 

SPrlAKKK An-l I would like to say that I sincerely hoce thRt 

KUBASOV Thank you very wuch- good luck to you. 

=^hatalor^?^i..«. /^^"^ y*^''' very auch for those kind v.rds General 
S^I" tlrT' v°"'r^ this ti«e - One thing I 

that I teJe • iJi^S if ' ? T '"'^^ ^'^nversations hack and^orth. 
OklL-., ^v^f Aiexei -3 learning the English language vith my 

-iCL ''^^r/'^^-^-" P^^-^he.. You knev, all the er.v. . Mercury 

.es^ini ar.d Aj^ollc , have alv.ys had an individual crev patch. At ^' 

Iri^ as'Srirl^^'v'''' ^'^t'^^^' ■^i^Tieult part of the pro- 

J! "^^f^ ^'^^ designed a crev patch, our crow 

i.Tkyt ' included on it the'^names of L^onov 

ve'd^'?. t- ^or the first time to shcv the pnTu 

Zrto iv,t \ only thing, 1 think is unique, ve teve ?hl 

three white stars on the left side representing c^r three ere and 
the two gold stars on that side, vith the red background Soviet -af 
representing the tw. Soviet crewrr.en. An i the on it there ^ttl 
about ready to dock with the Su. in the background. And there wnT^ 


tne 9yi«^i*« "'Jf Tviot to 

AStP (U3A) PC37-A/1. 

Ti«e: 23} 39 CDT, C^:19 GET 


AO Okttj , vtt'i'e r«ady to b«^ln the chwjg« of ahia briefing 

by lagMt director Neil Hutchinson, on my right, and to ht9 rlaJit is 

HUrCHlN308 Weil, J»b gi^q to see sane of you are still nvsjce. 
3»for« I ga ovfr sob* things in th« flight plaz,, aa ve flniahed it up 
icdfty «id then J 'a sure th0 fev people that «ir« here probably vant to talk 
Jibout the hatch integrity check, which ve viU taili about. Let »e 
introduce Charlie Duals, vho is the electrical »n4 enviroti»ental 
f^figinoer on any shift in the control center. krA I brought Charlie 
alcRg tonight, for the express pui*pose of any question imd ansver 
.'•tuff th«t stifiht foM up on the integrity check. I'll go over in 
g*r.era.l v.'ut hftpper..- 1 ard vhat ve've done about it ao far and then 
'.'hRriie can fill any detailed questions that Right coimj up. Before 
• e g<-t into Kr.e intt-grlty cheek, Itrt oe talk a little bit about hov 
fr.e 'iay ended up today. A« you're aware probablv again ve rar. sone- 
vhai oohind »jhe(5»ilea . The afternoon vent on, ih« President's conver- 
•j-iticn vich t>.e -rev icok a little longer than vs thought. And of 

srsf T.he iay vent on and the ,^oiit activities vere carried out, 
it seereea like each thing took a little bit aore tiw than ve really 
:tntic:p^ted it vas going to. ¥e actually finished up coming out of 
»he Soyuz about an hoy and a half down. And, saybe not quite that 
trsuch, aji hour and 1^ , 20 lai nut e* and then vhen ve ran ir'o our little 
frcbiea vtth the hatch integrity check on hatch 3 uid V, that cOat 

abcut another ^5 minutes or alsost an hour sc . tt.f time ve vere 
finishing up our Joint activities v« vere dovn a'coi 2 hours or ao. 
w«? dH pretty ouch finish up the flight plan per --'lat ve plarmed on 
ioing although ve did finleh late of course. The Bus si an sanple is 
in the furnace »A150 and heating up. n^e cr«v got to bed, estimate 
iA about 6l hours ground elapsed tiroe, vhich i3 & iittle over tvo 
t.oura late. Which I think is really - really pretty good conaidering 
all the raizfflatazt ve vent through right there at the end. Several things 
♦nat - that ve iid today in the Systems area, as you'll recall they 
wrtre avoke - avoken this morning by a caution varning naving to 
io vith the Inertial platfom sensing device vhich tells ua that there's 
■.cpiething vrong with the interface betveen the Fiatfora anJ the corarjind 
i..3:iuie cctuputer. That sinct-, durii>' the day va? determined to have 
tcer. % faulty Sensing device as cppasei to anything really vrong vith 
'he - vith the interface or anything vrong vith the platforn or vith 
•he o-r.puter. And ve've been able to elieroinate that problem by putting 
iu K thing ve call a bi t aask in the computer vhich basically forces 
t particuJar location in the cceputer to remain at a given binary setting. 
Ve actually set a bit in an out channel in the coaputer vhich in turn 
prevented this erronious sifTual fron triggering tfie caution and varni ng 
do it ioesn't bother the crev . And of course that vas fort>^ate ve vere 
able to he able to that or they voxld have been getting the - tovard the 
end of the day Vance .vas getting those alarms every 10 or 15 rsinutes - 
of reg-iiarity they vere going c:':\ So that problen - ve probably von't 
here r-uch more fror. it. And by the vaj- , the fix thr.t vaa used for that 
ioes not K&L-k act,ia.i use. of that function bect^se the - ve ha-vw a 
E:<?, an erasable progra.-a in the computer that ve sleep 

lE.iD Of TAPE 

*3Ti'' (U3*) P037BA 


Tirt ^"-'^ nath?rnroni lut'^ "■"•-^ 53 hour'" o-ld 

oej. V'hether thev waritAS t thought they vere «oln^ 

• ^rnaco. As you kncv 've had ^ ^ ^^^''^^^ - one concern, 

hell., into U vhich Tn^r^"' """^ '^'^ f^arnace it 

• -^^^^'^ at the proper rate, v,:.^,! '■"-^■^^^ ^'*^'Pl«'" 

. -bie., a^,ain. We're still v^rk ;/;/f f"^*" ^''"^''"^ to have 

- •^^ It that r^v be c.usi u tT,.?; '5^^''« o.r. ex.ctL 

vhat we thirJ. is happening Hrv^v ^ ^''"^ '''^^'"^ ^^'''■'^ in it vMch 
'r:;"?:/r'^^ ^"-ce''" event, ve have - t^ 

- schedule, to ,0 across V^rtrtirl;' 


A8TP (USA) PC37B/2 

an-i ve'r« pro^j-ibl^ going to take the samplo acroaa in the last transfer to 
give our««lv« all the pad we can in case the furnace Isn't operating 
riultc crlcXet again toaorrov. And of courae ve won't know that - we're 
on the heat up cycle now. We won't know that UJitU we Inject the helium 
in the »orr.lng. The other thing is we'r^ actively pursuing a new way 
or a different vay pr soite alternatlvo way to do a hatch integrity check 
on hatches 3 and k after the problen we had tonight. Thnt is not resolved 
yet, We've dlacuaeed ao»e things with the controj, center in Moscow and 
we've diae»«»ed them tynong ourselves and I 'o sure that, ttom procedure 
or alternative wUi be available by tho time we have to do that next in the 
ptornlr.g. And I sight as well get Into that 1 1 ttl» anomaly. As we were 
coialnc back out of the Soyut, the standard procedur* that ve use, of 
course the docking module Is at 10- I talk In PSI by the way for those 
of you who like milllmeterf, I'a not a millimeter person yet - - 


Ti»e: a-.UQ CDT, 61,:28 GST 
Pate: 7/17/75 

HVlCHINjCN - . in thot ve use , CQurae the docXlng module, i, 

'Ph« ^^^.f ""^^^ '^f**^'" P«'-«'^» y<>t- B^th vehicles ftro about 10 PSI . 

rhe docking tic.lule, and the Soyu7 . of courae vhen they're, open We clo.eJ 

feoth hatches, the one in the docking RoiuU. hatch ?. and thJ one In 

i ' f^^tv; volu;e^ the tSSne ? tunnel 

? iff "^''''^ ^^^^ ^' pressure out of It and th^-n monitor the 

dj ficntlal preaaure from both sidet, both the U.f;.. and tSS SoWet 

a couple of things th^t you ought to Know about that Integrity cheoX 

l/t L'""' * -'^'•^^ • ''"^'^ '^^''^ accurate pres ire g^gf thar. 

ve do. They uae a - a - gage that - and I'n not sure ho.- m ch ^Jfe 

"r^ keTAl'' '"^^f ^^'^ -nsiderab" Lr^ ac- 

.urato. They can see changes dovn in the 1 or ?. aillmeter ranee 
Our pressure gage, vhicn Is the hatch Delta P gage .ctuaUyTn'the 
hatch between our - in our hatch 3 going to the tunnel - il UKe I aai l 

.0 .^u:te a., accurate. We have different criteria that ve ^lse Jo pass 
tnis xntc.nty check, and I notice! so^^ebody was . an' -^ere haJe Ten 
.evoral cooments «ade about the fact that tLre are dit-Vrc'^t criteria 
ar-d ve might aa well talK abcv. that right ncv. That - t^^e theJl are ' 
rt.o Russian criteria for a hatch check is nuch tighter thl^ cu ! an! 
1 always has been. There r^e reasons for that. J Kind of t^thinX 

they .orry abc.-- press<^^ liKe ve vorxy about fire. They are ve^ 
concerned since they have had sone prcblens in th. past with preas^ro 
and pressure integrity, and they are very careful, anl very sMct 
about hov tney handle th«t particular - Irea. Also the rVao;Jrlft 
a vou ^r.^M '"^r have the mai.e-.r oxygen capaSllitrue . 

as you probably already know. They re - they scrub their or/.-en - -heTre 

cl!. ;ea'rv "/'^ '''''' '^^'-^ "^'-'■'"-'^ - 

car; t reaay replace. So thafd another reason vhv thov're very retreful 

about ;Mng. lu. hatch integrity checks, [n any 'event', -e w if J" ne hatch 

integrity check an i It failed. Tne - on the hu.slar. side of it in ' ' 

ether vord., they didn't pass their criteria. And I've get a let 

nu=ben , down her., which I - I won't bother you viv., - sr. i Charlie 

Lsai^ . tan give thea to you in the question and answer pcrici. If vou 

are rea ly interested in the number.. Put. by a con.ideraile'.i' n 

-he, didn * pass the integrity check. And ve waited a little vhile 

decidec kind of half us a.^.d half the crew, that ve ought to t^; 

'ifeh.n. Vre have a stardard procedure that if that che-k fail- to 

repressurize the tunnel. a.^d open up U.e hatches, and clean ^.-^seals 

and rr^^e sure eve^'thing is - copacetic. and close then u, , e^d ' 

he tvu-.r.el ga:n back to ^ and try again. Ve did that, it di^fThe sa.e 

f«rf' ''.'^l''^ Art^'" second - of course after the first 

faiiur... in tne grour.d. In Housto,., were taiving to the 

that maybe there is aooethirg we don't quite understar.i aoout the wav 

m? (USA) ?m9 CONFERKNOR PC37C/2 

4U.u«lng that on thnrou^d rlLl orT iltV'''. "^"^ ''''''' 

ar.y m there at rU . But vhrt L that indeed there i»n't 

t^*t you have a fairly snall JoW "^'^ 'f^^^ """^"^ 
g« Of a fairly sLuv>ir^i , 7'' ''"^ 

cu. or there , U ie^lLrt^Ttl^ ^uj/'^ llV ''^^ 

-Idea back tj normal, of ooura^. aa Uie temperature 

Ar.l what that looks ike on on I r up. 
you're leaning new Ja n 0 t^rvol-l^r^^jroSTr 

-'.Itch leak. The last rwasureEeJ tVJt \ e ^"^'^^ lii^*? a 

^=-f.:v ve all decided c^lT \u t td '^'^ '''''' 

ve had a satisfactory inxeprltv cWk ^ ^ decided before 

day - .tnce the leaX ra'e ia^ fafrW ?? ^'^ ^^^"^^ ^'''^ ' 
hussUns along with us realized fairlv J ^ ^^^'^ "'^^ 

that ve had some tenperatm^e th JeL f 1' ^^^hly likely 

right on With the trSsfera^S'^Jj^n,':^!^'^'^ of a lea... Ve did press 


AfJTP {USA) PC37D/1 

iii/rCHIN;ioN - - fairly soon that it whb highly likely Uiat v-, 
had $<Me tempetalure thing here iR8»,«ad of a Je^vk. We dia press riaht 
on vlth the tranaf-jr and vhlle w* vere computing the transfer, we'd 
already taken th© clocking swdule down %o 5 ysi. The SovlctJ vera 
continuing t<> cheek the hatch. Their gagt, by the way. Is not a delta 
P gage, it 3^ an «l>30lute gag© that reads the pressure in the tunnel. 
And by tne ti«« ve got ready to go to bed. ve ar.l they got ready to go 
to bed.^ve vent to bed about the 3aia« time, they had a leaJ^ rate - a 
p-eaaured l<}ak rate that was vi thin apeo for the hatch - for their 
hatch - in terms of the riae rate over iim in the tunnel, and I think 
that number vas like - they were seeing about 1 raUliiaeter in l8 or 19 
ninutea rise. The problem for tomorrov, of course, io hov to - ve are 
*'/ to be having to do an integrity check on those hatches three tines 
.or..rrov .ne first couple of tirte., of course, if hatch is UfikinF, 

Hren t really - well, you're certainly concerned If a hatch vas 
Ufiking, but U isn't the kind of a situation that you'd have if it^'aea or. the last transfer, because it's not leaking anwhere. If- 
'^=tia in the confined volume of the total vehicle because of course, ve 
'u-ft, t leading overboard, we're leaking into the t^innel, vhleh is part 
of the pressure vessel. The last integrity check, I have a feeling 
vtlj probably be fairly rigorous ar>a go fairly slov tomorrow - the one 
'lifter the fourth transfer, because that's the one both they and us vant 
tj r.axe sure that ve have a good seal on hatch 3 and hatch U because 
ve re goUifi to bf separaUng the vehicles On Saturday. I gu^ss that's 
abo-il all I have to say. 

^'P, Any questions. Please vait until trte 

vDur.g iady brings the mike over, please. 

;UERY Could you give us a very brief description of vhat 

tne astronauts did in the Soyuz capsule, (garble) the speeches (garble) 
wfjen they vent into the Soyur? Very roughly. 

HUTCHIH30S Boy. Pa tenpted to sa;/ that didn't h«ppeh Ou tny shift, 
tut i can Kind of give you - of course, ve vent throut:h the initial 
greetings, vnich - todai", and they exchanged some thingis, and by the 
way, the flight plan is probably a auch wore accurate representation 
t.hH.'j vhat I'n to teU you. And ve did execute the flight plwi 
rjHfft to tne letter during today, except for one new ifm of 'cour^K-, 
vri-. the conversation vi th the President, which took a vhii". and the- 
t'!f»y ar.d exchanged aone other things. And the meal, particularly 

'.ting set up for it seer.ed to me to take quite a bit of timf.-. Ve 
'■ist always seen<fd to have a conni cable hers- and sonethinp else here 
^.-ii I think it's just a natter of getting used • . it. I have a f.>elin(,, 
y.u re going to see the transfers tomorrov going a lot smoothor beca-.j-e 
Ju;.t because they've done one. Of course ve had the meal and 'he they 
'-xcha.'.ged a few other things and then ve teminated the transfer and ■ 
back - and came out. Sr , in essence, ve did the initial greetings 
exchanged a fev iter.?, nte the neal and had sone conversations vith 
'.ce ground folk:! during t.he transfers - the transfer tod^/. 


Time: 83:53 QUI, 6ii:33 OCT 


Q^P'^ I ^i^ve a bunph of qu-ietions. Let me ask a couple 

of thej» at a time, and then give aonebofiy elao a turn, Nov the first 
one i8, on this hatch Integrity cheeX, and the problem vitli the 
preasure, are you aaying that what you're finding la the ordinary 
vorkings of Boyles' and Char.los • law? 


■^^^^^ All right. And then, this pl^itfora problem. I 

uj^deraand that, seme parts of that piriform aie refurbished from Apollo 

HifrCHIN:;ON Yes sir. 

QUERY Vns this problem involved - did this problem involve 

a/iy of them? 


Ql/EBY Vov. That's good. I vould like to asK, tomorrow, 

vno e&ta where? And when? 

HlTCaiNSON Okay. I will anaver that question before ve leave 
here. 1 must a.init that I'm - the flight plans are fairly cotnplicated 
and I have a hard tine finding then. You want to know whc, as far as 
the lunch and dinner neal ~ I think the dinners are all eaten back in 
the respective vehicles, but I'll have to look at the flight plan. I 
can't tell you that off the top of head. There ia sone - I suspect 
there';, sone Jo i nt ^fating. " Maybe not . 

J'"''"'^ f Well, tt'3 comforting to know you have to look nt 

.r>e fl-gnt plar;. vent through it and I ca^se in here with the 
quest ion after gel .g through it. 

j":^^"^^^^^ if I can't dig it out, I'm sure the 

PAO folks can answer that question for you. Thev can't? You've 
already tried that . 


AS7T (USA) PC3Y-E/i 

TlRe: 6t«!38 'lET. ^3:39 CUT , 


QUKRY ^ "ftftor going through it^ 

Ifl/rCHINSON Okay, veil, If I can't dig it out, I'm dure tht PAO 
roUa can anftwsr that question for you. Thoy cwi't? You've already 
l,rled that J OK»y , v^ll I'll itaxe Buro you get m\ answer. 

QUKRY I vould Just like to ask you h couple of other things 

then. I vuvler5tai.<l. if ycu wovild iivlnd Just 'iescribing these tours when 
_ t):ese tour? over the country. Wien do they tako place aj\d vho i» showing 


QUEPY ^eb , and when lo the good-liy's take place. That 

covero Ay list . _ ^ 

HUTW^IUSCN Okaj-, well, - the - I can certainly tell you about 
the good-ujs because that's on shift. I "n gonra do the ^th i.ransfer 
tOKorrcw and I'St r-e ?et that out of the way first. The farewells vill^ 
j.robtil'ly be around, you want then In Houston tin.«7 1 would say - ihey'll 
probably b« right abvut on tl»e, 1 would hope we get there abo\-t on tine 
toffwrrow a.vJ vhat's nbout 3 i 30 in the afternoor., roughly, tooorvov 
aft'smoon. The tours , the tour of the United Stater , which la for 
the'benefit of the Puasian folks and done in R-aisaian, is i-ne by Vaiice. 
And that is - occurs, Houston tiae, about 1:1*0 top.orrov and it's a tour 
of the east coast. He at arts down -iround by Miani and gees right --i^^ 
♦,he east coast over Washington and on out that va> . And the Kusalan 
tour - well, I'll look at the other side of flight plan hero. A« you can 
teii, mustof the flight directors are kind Of uniquely oriented. You ask 

a question that T a doing in this flight plan and 1 don't have to looK 
it ;p. But when you're talkJ^ng about aoiaebocly elsu'^ shift we've - vo ye 
really kind of - I don't - maybe the PAO guys are gonna have to an - ansv.-r 
about* the Russiar. tour but 1 'm alnost sure that it's - I better not 
aay il . as sure a.? I say it I'm wrong, I think it's Leonov. I'n trying 
to find out when it la thougJi. Well, ve have to get you that one. Why 
don't we go on - what was your other question? 
QUERY That's it. 

HUTCHINSON Okay, so I owe you who does the Russian tour ana 
vho eats where. And I can - I'll get those answers. We can call the 
flight planners over In the control center and get thea. Bit why doesn't 
acme - soRebodv take care of that right now and get hia ar^ answer. They 
listen to this over there. We need to know who eats wV.ore tc.orrcv and 
vho is doing the Russian tour and when id it. 

QUVRY I had half expected President Fori to invite th* 

CosRom uta tack to the United States after the r.iasion is cor.ple^ed. 
3;i there ar^y plan for that to happen? 

HUTCHIN30?J I don't know, in fact I don't - I have no knuviedge 
of my - I don", have any knowledge what so ever of tntt' . But that 
doesn't r.ean to say that there isn't, sone - sone activity in th'xt area. 

QUERY ' What about- - 

AOTP (USA) PC37-E/8 

Time; 6l*s38 GET, 23:39 CDT 


HirrCHINSON - -&nA I really don't k-jov- • 

QUERY W>.at abou' vhw technical infornation? What '11 - 

Will they have to posie over he.e for any technical (garble)? 

HUTCHINSON You Know, I really don't, knov if th«»re'a a planner 
Joint nission debriefing that Involves both crevB slmuitaieously . I 'a . 
sure that a lot of the infornatlon they have is gonna get pasped back arid 
for»^». I really don't know. I don't know whether there is a plaiined - I 
can't hardly lisagine there isn't frankly, but I real - I don't knov, 

QUt^RY How - how has the language training held up? Have 

thtfre been any problems in consounl cation? 

HUTCHINSON I 'n son-y, Bay that again. 

QUERY Kcv haa the language training hf?.d uy on both sides? 

Has there been any problem In coomunlcatlor. , unierBtandinK each other' J 
Rui5sian and English? 

HUTCHINSON From what I have seen, it's been fairly,- I haven't 
really seen any instance where - vh re people have seeaed to have had 
a really hard tine. Aa a matter of fact, I thought It was kind of 
rcnarkable ^oday vher. the President vas asking questions, he asked the 
iV-iestiona and Toa sort of acted aa a real tiRe interpreter there and 
wiybe aoaetiaes the neaning didn't, cospletely get aerobe but I thoug^it 
that vent fairly well. And certainly as far aa the tdchnical aspects 
of things, aa we've gr- - 


A3TP (U3A) rC37F/l 
Tiawi 23:39 COT 

HinCiilNSON - ther« - xay^e •w^tlw* the meaning iiin'i 
cowpletoly get aoms. but I thought that vent fairly well. And e«rtalnly 
aa f!V as the technlcM wjjoots of things, as v« have gone along here, 
I haven't aeen at-y evj dance at all that th« langue^e is pre»er.ti»g any 
probiem. An4 we've had a couple of pretty tricky things gotftg you know. 
I,Ue thla hatch thing. That aeemed to be coordinated fairly veil. Aa a 
matter of fact, the crews had jointly decided to blacX out and repreeeurUe 
the tunnel fts fa«t a» the control centers could figure out that that 
va9 what ve should do first and were already getting ready to atart 
It when we called thea up and tol l theo we thou^t that w i what they 
ought lo do. So, - and of coume that involves the coordination acroea 
an interface, where they dcn't - they caji't see each other, and are 

Lalhirg each other's l&nffaegea. , ^ ..v.v,» 

i^UjTRY You spoKe about - the probleei involved with the 'iit- 

f«.r«;nce in pressure - in gas prfesaur* betveen the two spacecrafts. Why 
aidn't you hamonlte those pressures ♦ the gas preeaurea in th<i two sjace- 
I" a rt 9 ? 

HJ/ICnlSSON I's not aure I understand your question. You mean 
why - why io thoy operate at different pressui-es , or are you talking 
about having to do with the hatch check? 

CUP'RY siv, the gas press ire in the two - in the two space- 

crafts arc Utferent, vl'^y »re they different, yv^- didn't you fi&r»onlae 

thise two yresaurest i » 

K'rrcHlNSCN Oh, okay, well the Soviets, norniaUy operate at 

>ne at!503Fher«, and they did oodify their vehicle, to come dcvn to -^one 
^ti^oophere is about 15 ?SI. They modified their vehicle to operate in 
ive vicinity of IC, which was kind of a coapriaiee. And then ve bu.U 
fhe decking nioduU. to run from - the Apollo, was designed of course to 
^-era^o at b PSI and we didn't waive - it would have been a very expensive 
operiition to rwdify It to operate. - in fact IsipoSBibU, probably, to 
4difv it to operate at a higher pressure. So ve built a docking module 

ih%t it could bridge the gap. It runs froa 5 to 10, and back ar.a forth 
'r^d course if you wouid've had to build a docking module to run trom ^ 

t./'i^ which you ccuid have done, it would have been a ouch aore expenalv 
cf^P'^-^ition. So, I guess it v&s probably the economics of the situation 
Li a comproffilae 6n both our parts. And the fact that vo both are using 
hardvare that was built for ether things. And the nmnaun ar.ount cf 
r-jdlfi cat ions were desirable, to acconpliah what we wanted tc do. So 

vip operating at different prcssuvea. And of course t.^e o.her 
th->- Ls that the Soviets - operate a aixed atncsphere . The-/ operate 
ar. oxygen/nitrogen etaosphere, and we operate a pure cxygen atcosphere 

in our ■ systen.. ■ • . •> 

G.UEBY And there will be no difference in tr.e fature? 

HtJTCHINSON I beg your pardon. „ ^ ^ 

QUERY Will there be a difference in the fuv^rel To believe 

»hst we will - yc.i will change in thft future? 

HUTCHINSON Veil what's the Shuttle, Charlie? 
DIMAS Otse atasosphere. 

Time: 23:39 CDT 

Hl^rCHINGON yes. the Shuttle run, at one at«,sphere. 

HUTCHINSON And it runs «Ued also. 
QUFRlf Mixed also. 

HU7CHIN30N 80. the Shuttle runs liKe the Soyuz. 

«ot ofZ air today'";L1;Vort'eu"^\t\^ ^'^^ 
and 18 U right to say that hr^keJ T^^ ^ 5* ^'^^ 1^"^'. 

the Atlantic? ^-^^ the Pacific to 


delavii"t'hl mL"i7 " — »» "^o^ect to say t 
u^fiayej the tioe line. Deiaved is nni th« ^^-v* 

Quvav xj 1. ^ not tne rigi-tt vord. But 

they expec 

.el.,ei^the % ^^/.^^-o^-^ 

than th^y 'expected h^ftoy'^Jfthar'" '''' 


time veil sper.t. We aeem^d ^b^Lle to - flnilh' ff^rn**"^^ 

it - the crevs vere ena«oured vith ! the Jl^fl?,?^ the dac,-. and certainly 

Is therr. is t^ere Jrf President. 
If he did delai' the fligM pl^^? nov siuch he did del^^/? 

KI^CHXNS0.N raa;rry. say that again. 

.ccount^for thie dela^A^^tie uL%"irorthrn^,^HrCre 
obviously soae. i-i jg,.v{ mere vas 

HirrCHIHSOM *ies, and - - 

Time: 23t39 CUT 

QUm - - deXay in the %lm Un« of the flight. It voa 

ctvlously ooived, ' i t i i 

HUTCHINSON Yes. And certainly not :h« majority of It. I would 
Bay probably a few minutes cf that total of a couple of hours we were 
dcvri because by the time we got going on the aeal , we weren't 4own all 
that long. I thirA ve ver« probably - at that tiise wu were behind about 
30 minutes and it Just secBed like as the day went on, each dciivlty 
tooK a little longer than anticipated. So a «mal. portion of the total 
amount of tine, we ended up being delayed and I thirA a v^ll spent 

QUJSY Much was said today by the astronauts of the ease 

of tbe fiu3siar/3 docking system - the total docking eysteo. I might 
have missed aomethir^, but are we using this on the Shuttle or future 

DIWIS Probably so. 

Hl/rCHIN^'ON I can't answer that. 

DINTS I imagine we'll use it. 

HUTCHINSOH The only B&nr.ed spacecraft the Unttfd States has under 
developBent is the Shuttle and I'd assume if ve had a docking syste© on 
it it would be one that was very sinil&r in design to this one as opposed 
to one that was similar in design to the one we used on Apollo. This 
ene certainly Is Riore flexible and more redundant and as Tois said seems 
to" be easier to drive irtto and use. since he's used then both. In fact 
he's used three, I ffiess. He used one in Gealni also. So, I thirA that's 
a safe assumption. . 

PAo We haw the answers to this geptlesian's questions 


Hi/rCHlNSON Okay. For breakfast, the Apollo crev will be in 
At>oUo and the Soyuz crev in Soyut . For I'^ch which occi.'xs about 9 a.n. 
Houston tin*, we'll have Leonov and Stafford and Slayton In the Apollo 
and Kubasov and Brand in the Soyuz. And Kubasov and Brand will eat 
at 9;25. whereas the Apollo folks, the people in Apollo eal at 9- 
Dinner is back in the respective vehicles I assune since it's not on 
hc-e. So lunch is aixed. And it's about the time we'll all be eating 
trc&Xfas*. And the TV tour of Russia, Brand will introduce - it's Kubasov 
tiTA he will be giving the tcur and it starts at 7:52 tomorrow morning. 

PAO Any coit? questions^' 

qUZHY Yes. I've got a couple. Rlgtst after docking witn 

3oyu?. Houston car.e up to Apollo's ''be advised you're pretty close to 
passing across - ever the Soviet la-onch site." Any particular reason 
for isentioning thai to the^i? 

HUTCHiriSON Passing close to the what site? 

^IJERY Across or over the Soviet launch site. 

Hin:CHi:;;^ON I've no idea what - why that - I vasn't there when 
that activitv tooX place, and I have no idea why that - - 

DUMIS " They certainly wouldn't be in an attitude where 

Ihev coaid see it or get aiiy pictures or anything like thai , right? 

Af'fP lUSA) PC370/3 

t'lty were <Jocklnff fn fi! b««n lu«+ o 

query' ^^"^ general viei„U^^ VT^ ^"oincldence th.t 

WWCHINSON V, . , * "^^^ ^"Advertently or thinL 

th« configuration ^ ^^^i^'^ -o'. rn * ^ 

frequency mo l: ''hen tW'r^ f'^fr^'^'^ ^^^i^S fed Wv 1''"^ 


„fi«e: :.':234 39 .COT . , / 


HWCHIHSON - -the U.S. eysten, if yoUviil. When thay're 
taljlf.g on 12175 to their ground - to the ground, in other vords , not a 
Al«llo/Soyuz relAted oomuiil cation, ve get It f*<3 UcX throwgh Our 
r«eeiv6re, through th^ Apollo 4nd beoli <Jovn throufeh the USB «nd if 
we re on the ATS, through th* ATB. Wh«n that happens, ve get 
it translated. Somellmea the trAnslatora eeeo to miss aone of the 
y^*cow to Soyuz conversation and and only gL'. th* - ejid I'a talKins 
about our folks here - it's hard - very hf^rd to sort out, you knc*? 
e-^ery tins* you hear a Russian conversation. Tor exanple . if you're 
irt the Control Center and ha<J Uo or three loops punched up, you v.,uld 
find the Russiar. specialists talking back and forth, and of course 
we don't translate that c- a vori for word basis unlesa we're all 
taj^king about ^ooe nutuai problem.. You he4j» Ruatlan b^ing spoken on 
the Joint fligh.t director loop bti. and , orth , ao it's very hB»*d 
80»ni*e6 to get it all sorted or and get the right one« transUted, 
and I think what we're seei.i.t Is theia actually missing it. You knov. 
there ii be 4 conversation tha^ ought to be being translated, that' «! 
ot interest to ur , thafs :n the air/ground, that »hey literally oiss 
tecause Ihey t;-.jight it soroibo^^ ^oinc, i,^ck and forth on the - 
etcetera. And I hope fhat that situation probably will be better 
tojscrrow, beca^i^e people are Just use A '.o vher« things are .and whftt 
pnvtrsatlona are going on, but to answer ycur luestidn directly, no. 
I don t think there's arc/Udng going 0:. the S^y^a ^r' between th« Soym 
and Moscow that ve =ion't kijw about and that has tfiy concern whatsoever 
With our busincfc-s with thea or vith what we're doing. And I think we're 
trying to get the pi'rtineht Russian tr&rislatea Corr-^etlv and we 
wili probably do better loaorrov. 

WR? Put JJ«ll, If ^h«'.v 'JOR^* aei-oaa to you with the fact 

t.iat there's scc^ lUtie pr-hiec coftjf>« up but they don't think It's 
going to impact cn the niasinn cr whatftver, th<^>-'re Jyst telling you 
what it's about and thoy'ro ^liring to vork on it. Th^re aay not 
b« any way that ve'rr going to [.tmr about this; r^ight? I Kiea^u this 
S« between you &tid thete. 

mrminsot- ir it's on - y^u know, l dr.r.'t knov vhat - i f the 
,*o5rt flight -iirA-tor loop Is of access to you folk*, or hot. Is HI 
i don't know. ] ion't « - 

^UEpy lie. 

HUTCK3:<f:^0?i I ,ion't knov. I 'p. i.ct sure vhv It wouldn't be. 
but it 13 not-' 

^^'R^V veii, not that 1 knr^w of. 

!il'TCHnt.';0!, WpM, then thV. 'f! whn-rt We as flight directors 
v.,uli initially hear about sojsethlng like that, and you're right, until 

/3U ftartel - yj. hear the night director loop, right? 

hlJTCHlNfJON Until you atartea hearing the conversation on the 
'.tim director i^op, you wouldn't have any knowledge of lt» That's 
-orrfct. V(M^,, ycu h^ar-l it th*rc, or heAr<5 it translate soae con* 
v^rsalicn oe'v^^n r/o3cov ana iioyu* . or between the crews being tranilated 

Vi: ASTP (USA) PC37H/2 ' " vV ■ . ■ ' ' , 

X: Time: , 23:39 CDT .' ' 
, 7/17/75 ■ 

'•JlJEKi Yeah . 

niJ!^J^^^^^^ , everything that's said on fhe lolnt 

picked up a conversation from the U tover - - 

^"^^^ ~ " turned off a svitoh. Okay Could vn„ 

give u3 an explanation of that? ^ y^"" 

the So^^tTXate ^n^rh^'- fr:;2e^:^ea^^:^^^on^ ^..VaT 

the air/ground i. sor.nhing ve^ caJ' ? 'do 'a ilj'thing - C ifv ^V"'^''' 

1^17^" ^ '''' operating In the Joint phase vith ^ho 

li tn l t^tveen the veniclef , ar.d of course It "s hSt 

vith a VHF receiver onboard the Bpacecrr^ft , ve actually . 
^^;e/f:f"^^"'f"r^' communications all over the ior d' ^I' .e^llli 
.nea today in London, Miani . Los Angeles, a couple of c-her Dla.!« 
We hear control tover airplario traffic, as a matter of fnrf I 1 t- 
coding up over U sonebod; got cleared'f" a W Lg o„ r^CaJ L^d 
It Just like the controller vaB t alk 10^10 the A^t^ It vL 

*hii f I! ^"t "'^"^ - °" aafte, but close enough to 

th^L"^?!"'i ^."^"'"'^ r W is the frequency - 

t^!r.;^ ;f«^"«"'=i^« i21 and i3U that the Soviets use. iher^J 

raiL- OF TAPE 

•: • ASTP fuSA) PC37I/1 
; : Time: " 23:39 cfyr 


vork control the 

^a«ger that t,i8 coald vork^n''"'^ On^ H^p furtner is th. 

aoaevhere coula „^ v . ^" reverse where rtn^oK^^ v any 

"""SSrS -"-^^^li^ l^' 

nUiC-HINiiON First 

^^^^^^^^^^ ■ 

»l«^oHf ,« on th^t iL'^r^"* frequency iTthe^r^unS^^^f 

lJ!.po««ible I v^! J ^ Russian so r > i 1?^ T"^ ' 

PAO ' «s«««tlaily. ^^^ly doubt it. B« . 

'^'^ qu.ationa. OX«^v, tharJ. you. 
0<B OF TAPg ^ 

AST? Change-cr* Shift Debri-fintf #7 
I-yr.don B. Johnson S^nc^ Certe? 
rioustor., Texas 
''■■''O p.m. CDT 
July 17, 1975 

ASTP (USA) FC36A/1 ~ " " r " ■• 

Time: .16.35 CDT, 57:15 GET . ^ ' , ^ ,'■ 

7/17/Y5 "... 
' SPKR Are we ready to go? All right. Cn my right, ve have 

Olyrm Lunney, the ASTP Technical Dlreotor for the USA and on his right, 
ChLt L*e, the ASTP prograc manager. We'll start off with Che t Lee. 

LEg "caji you hear me? There isn't really much that 


1 have' to say. I believe the performance today - the perfomance today 

peak, for itself. We certainly have a way to go yet before he n as on 3 
completed, but everyone is very pleased with the progress of the m ssion 
today ar.d we certainly looK forward to continued success of it. Glynn, 
wjuld you lik<* to add anything? 

LU^^EV Well, for those of you who have seen me here in the 

pa->t. I've nom.nallj been over M a Plight Director after the change of 

f s and I uaually have 12 pages of notes to fill you in c-n the number.; 
I dldr.'. do that today, because Vn in the Control Center k.nd of watching 
the Flight Diroctora and the rebt of the tean worX. But T would like to 
say thHt as you probably veil Kno---, everything is going flf>^^^'J>' ♦ 
"'. is getting done. I thinX perhaps they're a little J'f/"^ 
tinellne right r.ov and I expect that we will catch up . of that, in 
^Tcc"r.e or the next coupU of hours; however, that rona ns to be seen. 
I would UKe to say that I've enjoyed today one hell cT a l^''^- ^ 
raked a nu,..ber of time* to the man on the other side of the oce«^. 
fpcsor Konetantin Bushuye^ , who's my cour.terpart and Director cf the ASTP 
orc^rln for the Soviet Union and I could tell from the sound of his voice 
frafS^'. en,,oylng the day Just as auch as I a» and It's a pleasure to cor.c 
c;vsr hero and talk tc you about it. 

-pi^j^ QXay. Wait for the alcrophone, please, ctart right 

^"''' 'quERY^ '^"^ ' Yee^^^, I gaess for yoi., Chet. Both Brezhnev aAd Ford 
ij. .vg,. oe»sag6s to the aati^onauts aade aention of futufe flights as if 
there Cas seething really in mind. Do you have a shoe to drop for ua 

It this point? 

i,ES Nc, Bill. 1 don't. 

atJKRY Do you know * do you know ai^y ftignific&nce In - or 

c^n you read any significance into what they laid? You heard th*^ things 

-in the Circuit as I did. . ^ » , -^^» 

tyr Well, 1 beUev*^ Olynn could probably supplement 

but ny'iVession Is if. - It's a long t<jr« Indication for the futur., 
btit certainly not In the imfidiatft future. 

CilJFRY iX> vou hhv6 anything to say« Olynn? 

t~t Well, I think there's a ^.oneral f^jeling en both aide:, 

thni *h«re will be flights in the future ft« ve '=<>'^^*""*^^l';:,;'':;: . "^^J" 
.v-r, roally lon't have rmy .p.>clflc plans or a^^y «Pf f = tf lLt, 
•! but I «'xp'«^i inal as our wcrk on the cOBpAtftbllity of render- 

;nd'docKin6 B^^l^m for th« Mature, as thai ^^^V^^^'*-;*' I;,;'^/'' 
iiolngtc find opp.rt-anitie. to test those out and perhaps conduct other 
kifii of mission* Jointly. 

i^j>Kfi Go fthe-*d. 

ASTP (USA) PC 36a /2 ' 
^)"^-,/^ = 35 COT. 57:15 GET 


sumarv that vas sent up to t^e astronaut, .f" " °^ "'^^ the nevs 
deal was not included v^en it vas thp il^ grain 
the countiy? ""^^ le^d story in almost every paper n 

a Bruce RicKs 

vhat is considered I <Jirroront versions of 

Ton «poke. What are - vhat did v^n ^ ^'^^^^ opened and 

history record as the nrl\ vordf ' '''^ vhat viu 

1 do„-t really r^..enber ..yself. Chet L v'S! ^^"'''^^ 


SPKH ' recall, 

WUERY Is the i«« t> 

pick out about the - a new docking ov«?!^\v'r ^^^^^^ «<^uM 
better than the Apoilo rrobe h^* "^^'^^ ^'^J''^ so '^■u'.h 

LirN.VEY I th[n> - y^ualiy vorited? 

ritnce Just in te^s of h^C tl ^ITlTL^.^'^^l ^'^^ '"'^^ >^P^ilo expe- 
he Apollo pr..e, ve tried to co^iae/^^Tful 1 J" J''*''"" 
Of features xnto a device that's -S^C s^'all -J f **P*^ili'y i« a lot 
fa?"!/ cwplioftted. Tne docking svI7 therefore gotten 
«y«tem i. larger; it p4ab y hfa L «lv "^l"*'- "cv Lxi^g 

forvard system . . ^ ""^ '^'^^ Pft»-t« but It is a Rore .straight. 


• ASTP (USA) PC36B/1 ' . ' ' [ 

Time: I6:h0 CJZT, 57:20'GPT • ' ' ' ' ' " 

7/17/75 ' ^'-^ 

as many pina bu. iw^^ It probably has" 

in tho future we find that that Jef^in^. operated. I hope that 

have tu use xt. And In fai^is!^" "^^^ tines as : 

we have always Jocked suocessfJ^l^-M^H f^^^^ AP^llo Probi 

ve want to use Li. <^es3i-uny .ah the Apollo probe everytiae 

•i'iERY I'd I'Jr t 

about cor^unica'.ion pnJbleas vUh'ml^ J;*"^^^"" ^^ere waa talk 

" ^ anticipate any further problems 

"."i^: Vr ^rT"'"'™''^^-"--~ t;o"\r^ ?i 

specinc about hov that^.Tdone u'" i'^w ' '^'^''^ 

;"-«tion in the ApoUc. or naybe ^n , ^^'^'^ «onflg- 

to cut down some of the triSssJol tS^^'' ^^^^ t<^^ «ome stops 

)^nov for sure. Perhaps alaoT war^ ^ L''*'''* Idon" 
Sf^i^ 1 Pete!! combination of those two things' 

Hgr.t to that. '"^^^ ^^'^ over, ho nay be able to shed r>ore 

that DOD h«a r,«d, an J?^t ff'* ' ««w<a Hartongd) I„f„~.^ . 

^ ^'^^^ Hello? r r -5 ( t , 

Jbout it Olynr., because it ha^ Uer I ^T'' ^^'^ ^'^^ anything 
^a:/. But the problems with V^ice coI'm ffnla^tlcally succesaVul ^ 
tend to .poil thingb". Is it S^«!,Kf^''"^^*^^°"» ^'^^ly did kind of 
th«t Win allov u.'t; he:r\\ri:; ? a svitch config^Jat?'. 

pw.ned to be used. Aa'a iaUe*? figuration txists snd it is 

arid th-/ not- planning a tra^^aif 1 ''^^'^ ^^"^ eattnp 

cornauhlcationK. The vrohU^ fTJ 1 ' '^"^^^ ^« hearing the Sovut 

of setting all th. conngurat on vrJe t i^/''" * '"^tt.r 

5nvoivcd in it, and occ^MonUly hl"J^t\^ «vltche« 
froqu*.ntly because of the dl?fererl k'nl -^^^-^g^^ f*iriy 

n^^^irThiire^ :;rupnh^r;ou^h^r^^^' -t^«;^;uJn; ^: 

tnai, j ou hear to our frt,-u y. 7 flu 

'^^^ ' ' ' . - 

' 7/17/75 

know that we use a cleaning agent In the spacecraft which is used to 
cloj,n the wall before you put velcro on it to attach the velcro to the 
wall with it '3 own adhesive. An<4 some times - I shouldn't say ametimes - 
that stuff, the emecadesi?), like an acetone, vlU Outgas as you go to 
lower pressuro in the spacecraft ttian for exanple, the preaaurc on the 
pad. What we believe happened tiday was that the docking module was 
locked up at 5 pounds pressure, 5 PSI for several hours which was 
the first time it was 6t that low <>f pressure. Prftviously it had been 
Rt 15 pounds at the pad and at 10 pounds early in the flight. And we 
think that the lower pressure permitted some outgassing tc- <i>ccur, and 
was locked up and of course the J56n amelled it when they first went 
in therf. Wc ' vC also experiencea that in the altitude chamber in the 
spacecraft, that is when you go to. the reduced pressure, that .^ome of 
The etuff on the wallF, will out gas a little bit, and there will be a 
certain odef from it. We don't believe at all that there is any risk of 
fire as a result of that. And as * oatter of fact, it seems to be entirelv 
cleared up knd that the cien have not coraplair.ei about it dlnce the 
first ■ complaint . . ■ : , ^. 

iiUERY They theory about scorching in the furnace is now 

LUjffl'if Nc. The stuff Shells like that. 

PAO f^J"' Caapbeli, 

CA.MPBELL I think a part of this had been answered but are 

they back in a consson atisospher* ncv between the two vehicles or arc 
they in there own atiftoapheres a^ain* 

Xmiii Actually, during the course of the flifiht, there 

is really no time when all of the living nodules are open to each other. 
The ApoUo apacecraft will be kept at 5 1151. the whole flight. So that 
right now the hatches afe open between the Soyuz spacecraft wiJ the » 


ASTP (USA) PC36-C/1 " 
Time: l6:l5 COT,' 57:25 GET 
7/17/75 - 

LUNNEY - to each other. The Ax)ollo spacecraft vill be 

: kept at 5 psi , the whole flight - so that, right now, the hatches are 
open between the Soyuz spacecraft and the docking module - so that 
the docking module and the 2 modules of Soyuz are all open to each 
other, Vfhen the crewa return, they will close off the front end of 
the docking niodule . And eventually, then, the docking module and 
command module will be opened to each other at 5 psI, rather than 10. 
And it will sequence like that throughout tomorrow. 

^^^f Could you give the position, exactly, when thov 

m&ke the docking and the handshake? Over which countrv', exactly, the-/ 
nake the docking? Th.ey have a djckinp, and they have k handshake an 
hour after. 

I'EE - the docking was over the water. 

QUE?"/ Over which country? 

LUWiSY You mean where it occurred? 


LWN'EY wiiere - where - over - 

i^'-- Goographically? 
QltJi' Yeah, where - 

wmiTi GeographicMly ? 

quKRY Yeah. 

hUNNEY I don't know that off hand. 

I'EK In this past - 

f'*'^ , The docking occurred over the Atlantic Ocean, about 

650 miles (garble) . 

^"^f^Y "They verft supposed to have - over Oemamr. But 

there vo^ ? ninuteR and a half btfore tine, eh? 
I^K Yeih. 

L».;NNKY Milt Reirn was saying that it occurred over the Atlantii*. 

1 was actually not watching the oap at th« time. 

"'''^^^ was * it 'a alnoai due vest of Portugal « is vhere 

the looking - atcut 6?0 or 630, 650 lailet, eoacthing like that - off 
the coast of Portugal. And the first handshake occurred approxiriately 
ivt-r A»3terdaa. 

'•^^^'^^ J* VRs Bsy understanding that, at no time were thtre 

to be wore pfople In the Soyuz than it usually haa. For exwpk-, there 
voulJ only he 2 people in the Soyuz at all tines, and ^ in the command 
noiule. obvioualy, you had 1* people In there. I was wondering' if that 
w«!: ri violation of the rules of the flight plan, or anything like that. 

i'i'^f- It's an open hatch. 

J'o. The Btalerwnt that we aake Is, we nev<»r have 
nor- jeopie leaU'd up In a given spacecraft than can return in it. 
Put - *!!(', in this particular oaae, we had k people in the Soyu*. But 
trt^ toerlcan aiJironauts were not, in effect, sealed up in it. And 
th^>n ih« hatch was open to the docking aodule, pemlttlng them a quick 
r<!turn to AiwHo territdry. If you will. Okay. 

ASTP (USA) PC36-C/2 ' ' 
' Tine: 36;«i5 COT, 57:i?5 GBT 

QUERY Has Deke Slajt.on been infomeJ of hla sistor'ji 

accid«nt yet - and If not, when will he be? 
LEE When what? 

LUTIN'EY I'm sorry. 1 didn't knew about it, myself. 

LEE Infonn^d what? 

LUNNSY Of his sister'a accident. 

LER Yes. Deke was infcrned before liftoff. In fact, 

his brother called and talked to hia before liftoff and told him tnat r 
everything was fine. 

PAO Victor. 

Q?,;gFiY Could ve know whether ve know what to do to be sure 

that we are hearing from the Scyuz aetronaita tooorrow? Or is that - 
the soluticri to those prcbl*n3 - still vp in the air? Do we know - 



Veil, we know what to dc. It'? Just getting it done. 
HJght. And so far, the.t hasn't really been fully 

As yo'j neoi-, at tinee, it la not fully accomplished, 



Mary i-'upp. 

Oier., 1 was sort of curious. Y'all knew ahGnd of 
timo that tori was going to talk ii> thea up there scaaewhere - fiometime. 
And I was rather anu-^eu, because there was a frantic scramble th'Jre 
when - vith the headset - when Tcte looked very startled and had to take 
off hla headset and give it to Deke when Ford was speaking to Deki. 
And i was? Just very curio !F why they didn't pack In an extra heAdf?et. 
Wss iherp s>t.i? technical pr.bler;, or whatever? 

lUNNEY Ho, no. We have plenty headsets onboard, Actually, 

Wi? Knw •■'le President was going to talk to then sometlw', before that 
oocvirr'jfi. And we tried to tut up a ccnfi|f.urfttlon thftt wa^ as slraple - 
n:. straightforward, as ve could. However, we did not realize that thft 
f resM^nt was going to speak Irtdi vidually, to eiieh mensber, and indeed 
nak efteh ciM -f them a ■ju^fi^-l':'*"^* And that caused the prcbU^n with 
trif heidss;*,-?, as you saw. 

.ior.ft. Tint of all, do I urideratand 
the possibility that the sinell cane fron 

correct iy - 
thtj f.irnact- 


you've ruled 

cjn^-B froft ft naterial like 

lio, ?v-;, I Just said 
tf-.Til. It r-lAiht hftv* cc?:-': fr-;n thf Dirnac*.'. 

%i'E^Y FecrrLi -v.iestion. 'fJi^r*? wap 0oi?»^thihit that Wfts said 

'ibc jt t rrv .>r<>nlcs wafnini*, ^ORevhere aicng the line. Then I didn't 
i.e'ir any acre about it. W>.at'3 the situation on that? 

L'iiTif'Y Vr^ have n warning light in the cockpit - the 

ruit io!! and warning nytnter. in the coptomd Module - *nd it la - it 
'."■•ri.-i'Mj A (ju.'!ib*'»r of critlca! parameters in the 8pftcecr*ft to trigger il. 
nwM'" is a prftiuiurf? ttht^r in till cf our CRYO tank«. But it one 
fnrt-iculnr '-•tit' - the {:'ressuf«r ■nuMcr vt-ht dovn to clost to zero a 

ASTP (USA) PC36-C/3 

Tine: l6:h3CVfT, 57:25 GLT, ' ' * , 


couple - I think 2 different times, today - and then cejne back up 
nonii«LlIy. It indicates that there's some kind of an electrical problem 
with tne aign^l • But the fact that it vent down tocloae to 2ero - 
I think it w»nt to 30 pal, as opposed to 900 pBi - was, of course, a 
condition that triggered the light. But we know that the tank ia okay, 
because the preaeure and heat went back up on the gage and, also, hecause 
the quantity readings, et ceterm, are all normal. So, it was a false 

QUERY Well what 'a the function of the tank? 

SPKAKLR llie tarik provides the oxygen to the fuel telle, and 

to living - - 


ASTP (USA) PC36-b/l 

Time: l6;50 CI/T, 57:30 GET 

7/17/75 . 

WE^Y u ^'^^ * indication. 

lSy ; i^^nction of the tank? 

to iiv^Jn . breath. In Tr^'tTV''"/'" ^« 

the pressurl in tit line ^.ero^^ 'darning ca^-rylng this indicator of 
oxygen. ^^'^^^ "'^ problem with the pressure or th« 

-instrument,:/ ion. 

*JERY Why n j^^j^^^ t~„ibly 141 „d 


1^91 r.g 

<''Sf 1!;'%^'' ^imoult to ta;k »ith fool m ,o-ar mouth. 

Jh^'y ■•■^1 operate in that mode. Yee . 
HHi; '''^ vonJerlng if the reason vaa that there' - so 

;i:ir.k\T;ryr; .!ot."""^^ -'^^^ ^^^^ •^-•^ ^"-ti:a^e 

svitch, nKay, to UIK. AnS ^hat hSy dJd at nnerTa.'?LT* fT 
on the raii<.s at tdl . rri^-y 'u«* ♦alkM 1 r.![f ' "''^ 

fan tho night v,,re Ihey. "^-^-0 eoas JInsnse but cr, .h.t 

^'^^^^ transfer activiti« and do y.u kn^v vhy? 
h>. ^ ^ ^^ K . no Pi., aorry. I d.n' t know vhat th. probi^fi there 

..c..?ii2 .hat va. ^^;^a:.!/f:!^'^'^/^r^^f^ ^f,r ^^^"^^'^ 

MrM-jUr Mrr^ou^n^l V ^ ' ^""^ itietiliry gorte of the 

*.avi!ig. .r)u Kriov, i vouir] say SiWiethinit hen^ vh^n w« ♦iv* 
sraw, certairay wcnd^rt^d hov .H rfic^i i f u sr^l v * f 

:::: ii::i:':^^i-ij^J^^r^ 

.y.»Mf ....e found that t-. nave workei bftt-r thah I'v^ ejrpecied. Wo'v*^ 

ASTP (USA) PC3C-D/1 • 

^^"^llr^^^lZ^l^^^ I'll -i-' .... ... ve. 

Hrtd getting to understand each otSr f I ''^ to knew each other 

that was required c^i thfngs Jik '^L? g!^'"? \° ^-^^ Of detail 

vhere on. elde would think\ ceJta J Mrl of 7 ?f ''irf^ronce^ 

anctner side night think mo Jesting J 1 ''"^^ 
luired and ve vci.d have to recoLn! f^*^ testing would be re- 

-"0 think the vork itsetf has been J.«'^^f^ ^^"^^ «^ differences. Sut 
Bldo« to™ise, to f i na a «LcnHUe ^Hd'r' * O'^' both 

-ho solution instead of problemTth^r^e t - ^'^ 

i'/e been Very pleaded with thrwav th^ ^ v v ^ '^''V* l^^en - 

to be^part or it. I think if^ork^Iu'^e^T'n'' ^ ^^^^ 

v-arryl'ng on this vork S'h%h^''soif.f^1 P«^rl« were 

the people nt the Cape, and Mar ^all whn^^? * booste, . and 

Hctlvly participatod'i; prepay ioJ o?^ tt^T" '^'^ ^'^^^ 
one or ^ .ajor concerns'th^ougJo' thia w^« ' v/^' ^ 
there with a good bcx^tter becau<,e if " %m ^« « "^o^n 

a »;ood orbit, the ni.-Mcn v^^rha^e Ito^n^S apececraft into 

QUERY r.,. . o^,, Etopped right there. 

^Kvla^ th. r,b;,;cti':ef wore" pJe^r./Jil:/: Tl''"^'' ^'"'^'^ 
how Riny Of then ve had acconrli sLw^* v f «ind It vae easy to dee 

been in what areas in thiTprogrl^? breakthroughs have 


::;h::ASTP (USA) PC36E/1 V'^ 

n^de?^"SJat kind of -"p^don'nr'^ T.l w"? °^ Jreakthroughs vere 

in What areas in this prog^L? breakthrough were made, 

- are a nu;.ber of system, 'technilai^ml'^fr'r J""'" ^^^^^ ^^^^e 
that got designed and built tSat^ere 'n ^hlT' 

operating, as of right nov. Successfully Lf Vr^f' '^^^ ^''^ 
continues for the remainder of^hl rii^l f " ve're hoping that 
breakthrough, that vetafvas fnihe iie^ of lil J ''^"^ 
dealing vith and that is hcrt, ^ell ve^oulf h^? ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^"^'^^ 

these tvo countries and tol^a^e thL/°iif together teans fron 

design, test, and finally fly ! or^eot «T*J'"^"''^'^ i=Ple.-.ent . . 
is conplex ya kr.ov - perLli\tw^ IT,. conplexity. it really 

in the sense of an Ea^th orbit r.n^ff ^li^^tle bit blase about it 
or the things we- vei; In he ^it ""u^'wrh"'' 
hardware that ha.3 to wor> vel" Kl'c. L ^^'^^ 
spacecraft ar,l the Saturn lau.^^h i^.^. ^J^^^^^^^^^^v^e of the Apollo 
that soa^ of the new Li .-Lt^fhlf v 

true on the other sid^ fc^M^a ZtTT'' "^"^ ^« 
together, but - the larger teat I ^r^v C ^ ^^'^'^^^^^^ put 
both of those ccur.'^ie3%.>th^r ' bringing the teans of 

in a fev ^r. days v;.!/.l1J o eHhl^' thf S"' ''''''^ 
acout that. ^ ^^he boo^s are going to say 

think ''on. of the things se^^' r^^r.^^'^ ^"^^ I 

been dc.^^entei and n ^ ht; fo^ tM """'f "',"^*^'""" 
great deal of effort and experience -if Tt'^'^^'f ^" ' ^^'^ ^ 

..ure^for ... .oint^efforr^o'^StWrvIt; ^^^['^o^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^V^^^ 
this ti»e and in spi^rof ['at'^on ^.t'^T "^""""'^^''^^^on^ satellite 

r.ny ......ieation'sateniJ^s af ^^^ed Jo^ 'M^'" «^ 

^. I^-^NK -rfeM take tvo lV:^^.fr •• f!' r:'«ring tvo. 




■^eM ,,,, t^r...;r.r«"c:„^n„ 

Vhy eoui.iii't you use it? 

'^■y couldn'^i; you use ivc? Th^s- - 

We could- - ' 

'-Te could, veM love to ha%'»^ theffl. 
Wnyv : 

It's just mney. Pesv^tfces snd get them ud her*. 

«e vere very fortu..*te to have the ATS 

>ir.d It was not put up there, by the Way. for this 

- -in this Eiiseidn. 

ail Of it^ovn. Which"?* ^JL^.^^i'^^*'' "'^^ ^^"^ * Prcg.-aa 

is still in the of Ldufti ^^^^'-^^"^rtlon of *iid vhfch it 

Pi^^back^its ?i m^brtrour^Sll:.?!^^^ ^ 

*^^«- la tnere another satellite t^^ you can uset 

ASTP (USA) PC36E/2 ' ' ' ' '"'^ ' '' ' 

"se today? ^^'"^ another satellite - sat-lMtn 

satellite you can 

LfJT^NE-/ «ysteia. 

loops a..i so on thatt' ^' P^-°<^edures and routing of'c^i 
""''-^^'^J^;: ^ ^"""^ you r-on another Joint 

doing ;:ha.' p-ol,ably Sve'r'don't I'Vorl''^^ -'-o a>-e 

sc:.etn,ng li..e that. Relative t^ the 'f' f ^^^"^'^ ^ i^nprove 
.0 .netner ve've learned son^eth ng that -^""^^^^O" 
t^.iness i-.ternally, i don" rk T ? i^'P^ove the way ve do 
because ve a+to'-r.*«^ ♦ " "''^"^ coula ooint fa «r-r*K< 

Other Side co.-^arei to t> e -or; Mn. '° rron'-i 

-.^^ ... ... . -^-/-;ttra^\- — »™ 

from the 

f'^f Louie. 

aiplonatically as he coulTtLf 'h' '^"1''^^ ^"""^'^'^'^^'^ 
is a heavier or a lit*'o "n.l '"^"'^3 that the astrona.j*^' ^-^ >^ 

^on't want to er.larg'-tti; fo'"" ^^^^on^nts' vorXW S'^^' 

ru-ticlpate in the director' k ^'PPOJ-Vinity to observe ins-7«H 

or pacin,. or ^^^iir^Z:;:^r ^^^^^^^ --V^^'ing aho'ur:.;: o: , 

-a- gu^thin. -l<^^e^valuabl/.^i^-,---- cosmonauts ^ 

or eour._e tney are involved in these things^:' ^ ^^TZ^T^'llT''^ 


Time: • ' ~ - - 

a»e:^^l7:00 CW. -57:1.0 GET " V \{ ' -'- ' y ' 

:^^V;::,,,;;:; LUNNEY _ . ' , ' 

concurrence fir P^bj^ to work and - 

vork for Vhl f ^"^^^ they're involved Tv, "tronRuts* ' 

^fie atMuxjt of work JL - modify the «nn! ^ 1" 

the fact Pilots^in ^^-inlng 

^'^ing that the fli«hr.ri ^i"! "''^ ^^^^^^ oou^L ■ 
^i-e with thf. , ^^"^ =^evs had to do vas "^^O^. I think the one ' 

are not cfl^etelv . "7 appreciation ^o' '^'^^ '^^y '^^ve to 

»^-ttin- «n ^ trained, for L^xanvle ^" ^^^^'^ they 

8_ttui^ ail the config-oration ri^^t .vJ "^"-'^ ^"^stion, you Jrov 

<^rosstalk Je' 4 the;e'^be ' 

^^inrl.^T'.^-^-'-^ }o vork at that. ' But i"T'°T'^ •^"<^ cosnonauts 

^-iness as .'la ^ tra:;.ea th. ^^^^ -rK load 

PAO ... ^'^"^ C)f vent about 

^rs^Kf ^ike, viU vou' 

- y.. oh;e-rn^7t /hU-:-;! 

- re . r^hn^^^ early fo 

bouie. I feel u,..,, Joo to do and a f ""^^ ^a''<> 

PAO viit cievs toaay. "^"^ v.rt.^ aoout the 

SPKH, ^ " Jel ' °ther problei»s% ' '"^'''^ ^'^^ that. 

-ii-^^^^^h: ^^T'^^T^i^ - ^^^^ 

tMt each Side Zuu lf^Til'" '"^'""^^'^ -'^^ to o,,^,\7/PP-aohed this 
wn hardvare tore'hpr f ^ ^ "'■'^ ^rev and if a nCJ^ „ Presuraption 

have tried to keep "hV'Zr'h^ t""^ ^« "^'^t alone 
'^i«^-t P^ncntially h^L '^ f ^^'^^ abreast o'' are 2fv , ^^^""^^ that 
-"^ight L,.r.d like it^!f.!" ^^"^^^ '^"^^ vhere - ve hIveT.« that 
^ioe8R*t, ve vluli l ^'''''^ impact - if 1 kI ^/"^^ "^^^^ it 

that ve^.:^on^'^J4^V''" '^"^ --ter: to Lw^^^ ^^^t it ; 

it Via be no ii^!ff ' ^t looks like thl« vf.t ^''^ ^ther sidr- 

ASTP (USA) PC36F/2 , ' . ' ; ' . . 

Time : 17:00 CDT, 57:140 GET . ' ' 


■ QUERY Glynn, was there a misunderstanding - an exchange of 

Ghoj-pi words today between the Soviet and the American flight directors? .v, 

I don't know of any. Didn't hear aiy- . ^ ^ ^^^^^ ^ ; " : 

LUHNEY Not that I know of. a didn't hear a:^y, "but I didn't 

listen to that loop all the time. I 'n not saying that there were some . r 
and I didn't hear them, either. I don't know of any sucb thing. . 

: ; QUERY - > at the beginning you said that ycu enjoyed the 

da^/ a hell of a lot. T suppose we shouldn't let you escape without say- 
ing one or two specific things about what you enjoyed m-Dst about the dEiy. 

LUIiliKY : Well, I - you know, I can't be too specific about that. 

I f^uess it was Just - Just very pleasant T,q) see the kind of things that 
you've worked on for a number of years cone to pass - cose te pass as well 
as things have gone so far todv- I '*as very pleased the other day 
with the launching of both spacecraft , which was, of course, the stai-t 
of it. I was very pleased with the operation of the Apollo spacecraft 
during the rendezvou.? phase. I was also ver>- pleased, by vhe way with 
operation cf the Apollo docking s/sten early in the mission, the probe 
and jrogue, especially toda;/, I think, we're all tickled with the operation 
cf :he nev docking syste-. And then the fact that the '.ransfers have gone 
on schei'iie and approximately on schedule like they have. And that the 
crevs" are apparently enjoying thenselves as nuch as they are. 
"FAO „ Lydia. . ' 

WUERY At one point I noticed Tod Stafford kind of gesturing 

to explain soEething to Leonov. To your knowledge, have the crew run 
into any problena in terms of their connand of Russian to explain a 

LU^WKY Hot to ny knowledge, and it's also soeewhat customary 

for Ton to talk with his hands. Even if you can't hear he'a sayinK. 

^'ERY Vhesl you experienced the probler., ar.d you cleared it. 

up with the odor in the spacecraft and you said that it presented no 
danger to the crew, the Soviet people on the ground, did they Just accept 
t-hat at face value, or did they question you and say "He/', vov, this rAy 
be dangerous for our guyt , naybe we better hold off on decking." 

- ASTP (USA) PC36G/1 " ' , ' , _ 

Time: 17:05 COT, 57:^<5 GET 

, QUEPY . : - - people or. the ground. Did they Just 

accept that at face value or did they question you and say, "Wow this 
may be dangerous for our guys, naybe we better hold off on docking." 

LUNNEY No, I- did and Frank Littleton, the Joint flight 

director, did take the time to explain-Frank in more detail than I-the 
kind of process ve vent through on evaluating the materials that might 
provide auch a smell along the lines of what I've described Just here 
earlier. I spent a few ninutes with the Professor on the phone explain- 
ing that to hial and told hira that ve were very confident that it was no 
problen and that we could proceed and he was pleased to hear that and 
acccfted that as no problen. 

QUERY Why do you believe that the Airicrica'-i public is so 

ai i'Tttic towards this mission.'' 

LUTi"!BY I don't believe that, do you? Okay. ' 

V-®HY Yes, could you tell us if you still consider the 

•-hr'/e astronauts as real astronauts or do you consider them now more as 
dipi.-^r>at3 and do ycu know hew they feel this very special diplomatic 

LlRiHEY Well, for the second part you should ask then when 

*.hey come back. For the first part, 1 still think of them as astronauts, 
however, not only -.he astrcnauts but also a large number of people frcn 
the Johnson Center here and froa other centers, other :;A£A centers and 
:rom *.he Bockveli Corporation and other companies - Kentron here locally 
have participated in the meetings and negotiations with the Soviet Union 
and everycHf? of those persons has turned out to be a diplomat in n;/ 
opinion. • • , 

QUERY 'Aay I ask another question, please. You are talking 

about future cooperation with the Soviets, but now you won't havp any mci-f 
Apollo hardware and then the next coming mission couldn't possibly take 
place before l6l or l82 , when the Shuttle becomes operational. How 
do you plan to fill the gap and to maintain, to keep the knowledge 
t-i'fit has, been acquired? 

LUNNEY Well, what ycu said about the Shuttle schedule is 

'jrrri-:ct, that is about the time we would expect to be operations^ ly 
flying the Shuttle. We have soase more work to do on the, on the dosifin 
of the equipment that we would need to make compatible and we in NASA 

round that designing and testing and designing, building and Kotting 
triy Shuttle tested has becorse d. full time Job for most of the people In 
ihfi manned spaceflight businesa wid although ve may not be flying. In 
terms of work there isn't any gap tJiat exist?. We will ise flying by 
that time though and we would expect that in the 80'a we would see ft 
significant aaount of Shuttle traffic in orbit and that some of those 
misriions might well involve missions with the Soviet Unlori. 

i'AO We'll take one core question and then - - 

QUERY Weil actually two h&lvet , I hope. D<. you happen to 

know why Mr. Breshnew didn't radio direct like President Ford? And the 
scoond question is have you heard any-any thing today, any sort of mesr.agt.' 
fron'Mr . ■ Sixon? 

ASTP (USA) PC360/2 ''< ■ 
I/17/r5^^'°^ 57:2.5 GET 

^..-n .^I ,ea;^ LyZlTrT. f^/. ^ ^^^^ «entle- 

receivin.: televisi on'^^Tj::/ 'we^'aV'e' T''" ''"'^ ''^^^ ^^^^ "ot 
;-ae Moscov nova center and thev have ^'"^^'^ co.r.^uni cation with 

--iuiing all the Joint crev actJv tie " ^5"^"' television all day. 
TharJt you. i-iMtxes. I just want to clear that up! 

lu:::;e\- 7h&r.k you. 

ASTP Chaiige-of-Shift Briefing #9 
Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texas 
L:!45 a.m. CDT 

Jiily 18, 197^^, 


Donald P. Puddy, ASTP Team 3 Fligiit Director 

Robert L. Crippen, CAPCOi'l 

Charles Redmond, Public Affairs Officer 

I* .^t.r^ . ' ► • ' < » -y- if'* I. ' ' 

f ^ Time : : : 37 CDT , • . 

W Date: , 7/18/75 

PAO " ^^^^^^'^ ^ ^^^^^ ' ? '^^^ we're here for a change-of-shi ft brief- ■..::>■■•: ^■.■y:, 

' ■ : ing vith off going flight director Don Putty, and with him CAP COMM, 

• Bob Crippen. You want - 

PUDDY Okay, let me, - Just say a couple of things, - of 

nore or less a general nature and talk about - follow up on sojne of the 
problems that we've already briefed you on, and we won't go through and 
detail todaj''s activities. : I think they're fairly straltforward. * But, 
if you have any questions, we'll be more than happy to answer then for 
you. As far as general information is concerned, - the crew as you're probably 
ware got to bed a little late last night. Actually it is sonewhere 
between an hour and a hedf and two hours late. Arovnd 6:20 p.n. wake- 
up accured as scheduled this mcrning, at 66 hours, ^0 minutes, GET, 
or about 2:00 a.ra. The activities that we have scheduled are as flight plan 
with the only exception being that it - as you're aware we have had a pro- 
blem vith tha heliuni injection system, on the multipurpose furnace, 
and as a result, it's taking a little hit longer, and it depends on the 
sample, sonewhere between 2 and 5 hours longer for the sanple to cool 
down and be able to - to re-aove it from the furnace. As such, the sanple 
tiiat vas scheduled to be removed this r.ornlng will not be, until the 

period of tine where we actually are placing the Joint sanple in the . 
rarnare, and the sanple we are placing in the Joint furnace, during - 
1 believe it's the - first or second transi'er, actually will not be re- 
moved until the fourth transfer, and in the flight plan you'll see that 
' ^^^^^ it was nominally scheduled to be reiaovod during the third transfer. As 

far as - J-ust some general infomation on the spacecraft, itself. Cur 
orbit presently is 121* by 123.2. The conimand nodule cabin tenperature 
is running right around 66 degree;-, which - ver;y comfortable. Docking 
loodiae running somewhere in the order of 66, and 69, which is a little 
bit vamer than it was yesterda:.-, and I think provided better sleeping 
conditions for Deke. Fronj the standpoint of - consumables, on all 
of the consunables, we are either on the expected ccnsuEVibles profile, 
or ve'r» i little bit ahead. So, we anticipate no probleaa whatsoever 
with cdssion duration. The squeal that your aometiir.eB hearing on - ccmunications systsir;, ve feel is caused by Some of the speaker 
boxes, and we are trying to take sosne action there to g'^t tho?" speaker 
boxes turned off when they are not being vised. And in the docking module, 
turned down to & low enough volumn where we can hear any alerts, but at 
the ssrse time not provide the feedback. And hopefully that will clear 
up soae of the comra today. I'he -■ Russians gave us their status report, 
Just a few minutes ago. They have no new problems to report. And they're 
all ready to go, for the transfers todaj-. Yesterday, we spoke to you a 
little bit about a problem that we had on a ICDU - failure indication. 
We have continued to review that particular problem - - 


ASTP (USA) PC38a/l 
' Time: 01^:37 COT ' 
' 7/18/75 • 


; ve had on a. ICDU faUure°?n%L°ai to\' 't'''' ^^^^^ ^ P-blen> that 

that particular problem. We ^r^. ■ ^ ^""^ continuing to reviev - ' 
. in the failure detectio, ci^c't HsT/'V''^' ^^^^-^ ^"es" e 

ala' r " ^" '^o-Puter'trprev. '""^ ^<iul^.ent anl ve 

V aiarns. ; Hovevpy y^<-^i to prevent the r-ynu' . 

I'n wrong, bu' [?n '' ""^^^ that I th nk Lh T ^ '"^^^^ 

occurred^sinc; v-e haftT ^-^"'^ ^^^^ tir.e ^here tha'^"' '"■^ 
V, . . ^-^'jv-t: ve nad that im' + iDi ^„ ■ *' tnat aJar'a hR<; 

^^H^^pj;^^ therev/^eerver-r?::- '^^ ^^^^ ^ sor iJsTesterdav 

'""?i)D;'^- ^^^'^ ■ ^-^y^^r., aid .ot 

saying elen - even J'fe 'hid'putlt"'.^''- ^'"^^'^"^^ I'- Just 

been subject to that problel o'n y c^^ddJJfn'^ ''^^^ ' ^"^ -'^^^ '"e 
Mth ycu yesterday- about the probler At 'i^t'^ ^'"^^^ ^ *^^^^^<1 
a fov. in very rapid order. Th*. nn! . u ^'^^ "-'^ ^'ere having- n-.-t. 

basically vhat - I thi^V ?M c >: V ^^"^ ^ t^'^ inte,-ritv Ox- 
<j.i -..e aasses as thev h*»A* , leel 13 due to th^ ovr,.ir^< 

.^epressuri^ed ar.d a^a'Jesul ly^-J'^^lj^^''?^^^'iX''''' 
tetveen the expansion of the due ; ^; '^^^^^y can't distinguish 
fro. one Of the spacecraft? Ve've taik.H '''' ^ actSl LaK 

CI the hatch<?s. Befor« ^< ■> , "■'^ej.ij Indicate a leaJt thrn,,^v, ^ 
standardized lea. cheeK. ^'l.f f<>-J ^ ^^^i aheld vUh t,^ " 

-nutes for the temperature to stabm J f .'^^ '^^'^^ ^o-j 
JS far a^^ leaX level that ve dif vLt..!/ ^'^^ criteria 

have sone curves that ^^..^ yesterday. And ve fef»l iiv*. » i 

the txoe that the crew vent «i , °^ to detect 1+ 

presflure in f rn^ sleep last ni^ht until ♦h's ^^: 

that it va" str o'm^ T "^^^^^ So vMeel^. ' '""^ in the'^^^^V^ri ''I'^J^^ T -^^^^'/-t a?ed°v"uh'^"' 
for questions. P^^'-ty veil covers it. ojen U 

QUERY ^''"ce Hicks, 

and gas probler. . Wit>i"+K^'^ftu^^^ " ^ either on» - back . 

k„cv ...ether or not \l'SLf,S"rJ:-"ts"Ifn' "o ™v"to' L??!' 

.assing was from, is that co^rem '^"^^^ ^"^^ " -'^«t that out- 


Time: 0»4 : 37 CDT " • - 


; - PUDDY ^ ^ That's correct. I don't believe ve can pin- 
point where the outgassing is coning from. There are a couple of 
areas that ve looked at that ve think night be possibilities. One of 
then is associated with some of the - the lining - the adhesive ■ . 
lining within the furnace itself. Another one is one of the solvents 
that was used to actually clean the docking module prior to launch. 
In either case, the situation can't do anything but improve with 
tir.e because the - as the air Is circulated the lithium hydroxide ; ; 
cannisters of course will absorb that particixlar- - 


ASTP (USA) PC38C/1 ' ' 
Time : Ol+:37 CDT 

' 7/18/75 - ; 

, . PUDDY - - circulated the lithium hydroxide canisters of 

course vill absorb that particular odor and we don't expect any further 

: problems out of that. /There's nothing toxic or anything of that nature. 
So again it's something that was reported but ve consider it to be a 
very minor problem. 

QUERY .This last briefing about the specialization problem. 

Nov had there been a leak or a venting, vas it - would it have vented to 
outside or one unit to the other, from one module to another? 

^'^^^ ^'^ "Ot sure i completely followed your question. 

C.-\IPPEN He didn't understand how the - - The leak is not 

outside the spacecraft. What we do is in the tur^nel between the docking 
module and the Soyuz, we put a hatch on either side of it, so +here a-e 
two hatches and ve enclose this small space. And ve evacuate that 
space dcvn to a lover pressure than on either side of it and ve look to 
see If the press-ore inside the tunnel increases, vhich would indica^- 
tnat tnere was sor.e kind of leak across the hatches, that thev weren" 
on properly. Then that would have been the prcblen. And what we norr.all 
do in that case is we'd open up the hatches and check thera and resea* 
then. And ve vent through taat procedure last night, initiallv becau'^- 
that vas tne vay ve had it noraally done-, and it did not solve" the 
problem. That later determined i t was thenaal . ^ 

You say that Deke Sla^-ton slept in the D.M? 

PUDDY That's correct. 

?A0 Jin.. 

iUERY Was that planned? Why did he sleep in there? 

CRIPPEN That '3 where he's supposed to sleep. 

QUEHi That was planned? 

PUDDY As soon as ve opened up the docking module it vas 

planned that Deke vould sleep in the CM. 

PAO ■ Chris . 

Ton ec-'t a little testy this morning about the loaoMl 
'n'hat are the surgeons saying about that? I heard what the crew wa.? 
told and I heard Tok's reply to it. Do they expect Ton, and thea are 
going to continue to take lomotil for the rest cf the flight and pull a Bi 

PUDDY Oh, I don't think the Surgeons or Tom plan on tak\'j 

that throughout the remainder cf the flight. I think Tom's concern wa*" 
he had an extrenely busy da^- today and was very interested in havln^r 
no interruptions to that day. 

I'ra etill a little bit cor^fused about this - did 
you say ICDU probler,? 


QUERY That's the oxidizer probler.V Or the oxidizer alarr. 

or is tnls something, I've been on LOS for avhile so I'n not sure 
what this problem is. 

^^^^ Ju3t had a problem where one of the components 

In the guidance and navigation system vaa indicating to us that It had 
a failure and whenever you have this type of thing, the two thinK3 that 
you re Interested in noting is whether or not it's actually a ^allure 
of the hardware or a failure of the failure detection circuit Itself. 

ASTP (USA) PC 38c /2 
Time: Ol*:37 CDT 
7/18/75 ' 

We had - night before last ve had numerous alarms. ^ Actually woke the 
crev up a few hours early and as I indicated in our briefing to you 
last night, this is a problem that was very similar to the one we had 
on Apollo 16 where ve had a small zener diode failure in the failure 
detection circuitry. Not anything associated with the actual operation 
of the equipment. And we've continued to review the data and feel very 
confident that that's what it is and to prevent these nuisance alarms 
every tine you have one of these things you get the master alarm, tone 
et cetera. To prevent those nuisance olams we have put a - chajiged a b 
in the computer which prevents those from triggering the master alarm. 

QUERY I got confused as to which problem was which. The 

one I really want to know about is the oxidizer warning that happened 
yesterday. Anything more on that? The cryogenics system warning. 

PUDDY No, there's nothing new on that problem. 

PAO Question in the back, Martha. ; . 

QIJSBY Cocmuni cat ions circuit do they - two crews use - - 

Time: ' Ol*:37 CDT 

QUERY - - systen warning. 

- PUDDjf ; ' No. There's nothing new on that problem. • ; 
PAO Got a :iuestion in the back, .Martha. 

. QirERY ^^^^^.^ conmunications do the two crews use after 

docking. Do they have er. interccaa systei., or how do they 
conmuriicate when they're apart? 

riJDDY : Tl-iey hav3 a VHF fM system and a VHF AM systez. 

hUERY (Garble) 

PUDDY That's correct. They also have an intercom. 

CflPPEN There is a hardwire system that is installed on 

the first transfer. Okay? 

PUDDY But it is normally not used. The reason is that 

for the Scyuz crew to use that to talk to the Apollo crew, when ncne 
the Apollo crew is in the Soyuz, it requires them ta use the spep-ker 
box. And the problem with using the speaker box is what you - is this 
squeal thi.ig that you've been hearing. So nonrially, we don't try to use 
that one. Ve Just gc ahead and use the RF lirik. 

PAO So further questions? Th.ank ycu. 


Houston, Texas 

ASl-F Change-ot--3hift Briefing n2 
Lyr.lon P. Johnson Space Center 
Houston. Texas 
5:30 a.n. CDT 
J:ly 19, 19T^ 


iV-nald R. Fuddy. A?TP Tear. 3 night Director 

Charie* Red*. A Public Affairs Cf i>er 


Time: 05:35 CDT, GET 
Date: 7/19/75 

. ^^'^ / . '^^^^ oorning, ve>ve got several peoole ud h^r^^ r^,. 

i-i-ara i,nrce, v'. J. Conweli, science officer for tpnm ir,/i t 


liXe^at The cre^^t^.^'^ lr: ''^^^^ - 

f 1 ! rest period last night vas pretty much started 

I'll coter a tt?. M .°rf ^''^ ^'^^ activities vhich 

i ii co/er a little bit later, we actually think the crev vent 

""ouJ ^ff'rt nr^na^nf: '-''^^ "'"^'^ " ^^^^^^^^ was off all 
rea?W ver^ kinf of t:^t^ J" "'^^ them up this nornlng 

as fli S^ct V t?es Lf ' Z^'^-''' --^^eup this .orniSg 

for t^.^^^irst -I^aVc^?^ ;:^oncerned, the crev begins their prflparatfon. 

■b 'U active InS. i '"^ "'^ ^^^'^'--^ 

c^ir.g active. Undocitir^, beca'jse of a char.«e in n-'Si ♦ BrH 

c^nanee in the ..rise ti.. has heen dela,.ed'hv\" ^ u?;' nd^l s^^^^^ds 
rne rea..on tnat cri ^ icai course is to rnake sure that v. ge' in 
the proper attitude at the pr.per time for the ;}oint 6oia>- ecfi^se 
the experiment It's noy scheiuled for 95:U3:/5 and I ^h n^ ' 
'• r^'l^/^^"^ it vas i?:05. Following the 

ff''"" '^'^ ^^'^^ at'a distancl^f about 

iuo-/:;e 3o:urtrp;:t.-gr:ph t^.-Jo^ai'i^ro''^' ■ "^^^^ 

..w- V ■ . . i-"<-»<..'>.ferapn T.ri'.> ^oiar corona. 7h6 second dockinc 

:"lT"'''yVT'' ^"^'"^ "'^-•••^ "^'^'^ °<=<^^r sotaevherr n the 

^.cinity 01 96:1. to 9t:70 or nround 7:i: a.«. this morning Sowz 
ac .ve_-^dccKir., occ-^. ....e 3 hrar3 later. Follcving ^h^undS ! 
u^.a^.. r.«, ve v:.i go int. the .P.'A experin^nt ar.d I'zn su;' v^u're 

and a ^CD neter out vf plar.e data take fciloved bv a ]C00 Jter 

^.3 the .po..r -d ..y u orev, then will 3tart on their cvn autonoLus 
^-^.vities. fc.ft.^ of the aut-^'.ony.v,s activities that will go on tclav 

d^ at^'S:^ - to gather Sa^grour.:^ 

data ai,i also ve're to accomplLsh ^r. EUV raster to erable 


Time: 0^:35 COT 


oorning tomorrov uirC 7 °" activities 

3tands vhere ve're at^! f Problems and mak^ !, '^'^'^ *° "^^^d 
tvo briefings about t\e rr?r ft ^enTtX! t'''' '^^^^<'^y 

the hellua valvegrfrom fh V^^^' ^« thought ve hS ! ^° ^'^'^ ^^^t 
eliminate some of th^ L f ^'^ a3 a reeuu .Tf ^ l^aX 

*"<J extend considerabivl'L f ^^-^ goin' t^ n to 

cool-rJovn portion ofthi, '"^'^ tha"^ '° P^^^-^f ir. the furnace 

initially report^ that P^^'-ticular experiment n T^'^^^^^ the 

cool-dovn. ve for.^J\^':^, ^ started pl^tUnV^^ ^^^^'^ ^'^ 

•-'^th the helium inleoM. ""^^^ that ve vo^h the 

the helium injecti;! ' ^° the best o^T v"^^^' ^° 

nominal tiSi^e L'J:^'"^"^^ ^^^'^-^^ to'^V^^d ^^^^^ 


tecause of the t 1 .v, ^a.'.pU u ^'^ ''^ ^'"^ back c 

i'-'-^ the one sv^h^f.'^"' ^^'■'■^ lost that ve „ ' ho-.eve^ 

-'re missi^Ttt^iLt^l^^ thaf ' "fhf en^! ^^^^ ^° 

t-hese thinc^ as . ^tili kind of r^J- ^" the tiaes ve 

'^^'■ough a passiv; eoo" ^^"^ t^ ^^.^^^^ -ay along on 

yesterday that ve h*^ active cooi-dnvn v ^° ^^ad and 

testing/ And Ne^l \r""' '^^o Proble^ And ve r ' ""^^ "^^^^ 
•--'ight. But ve've rSfl'T "^f ^^'"ed this in hia' ^"^^^ a bit of 
-^th the SIMO VHF ^'"""'^ that d^vn to a Le 1 last 

^Pli^ through the Ss ^"""^ of the CTcv s te, associated 

problem is, vhen ve "» P^c^dure to vo^). '^"^ '^'^ ^"^^^ 

-overage, i'3 jSt to delet': »i»vat««e^" J^^f this particular 

Sites. It -s alvavs sf!n!. "PiirA caCaM < . ^ ATS 

S-fcand from th^ IS ''B^f^^'^ an a ba^^S L "'""^ ''"^ 

Prcble. that the c^^v vin7 ''"^ ^hat^gt^krcL"' ^ 

- ve had one ihJ\.. far a* th^P;^? ^ '^^^^ 

that thariL"^-^-^^^^^^^^ 

-he point vhere ve "^^^"^t the F}>op bf- " ^'"^ 

-'r normal procedures ^^^.^ T'v^'^ ^^eot it to^ri^'e!!' "^'^^"itv 

procedure vo ui^e-- -a «o through an 0?^* " '^f' ^ourae' 

«oc..i., nodule I,;^ actui ^nrichaen, ,1 """^^^^"t. i^, 

valv,., because there ^1*^^^ ^'^^^^ ^^stem mJ^.J^ ^"^'^ the 

vent valve procedS T <i^^^^ion as to .w, ^^'^ ^aste ver/ 

vas vor;.;n«V.,e^rv\ """^ '^<^ through t^e c'T ^aste 

set the cr?w'to-\;d^on ' ' - and sr'T' 

^^durr.. And this i\ ^ I ' ''"^t vent ah^ad ^'^^"S to 

i« that - and vnu t \ ^^''t Procedure ^ "^^^ DM02 pro- 

^ ^t least one of th*. nJ; 

ASTP (USA) PC'4lB/2 
Time: 05:35 CUT 

vas not asleep. And they had gone back in there and vere bunpinK the 
cabin pressure bark u?. Evidently what happened vas, thev vent Ihead 
a^d Shu off the 02 s-opply before they closed the ve^t. knd. of course 
the cabin pressure dropped down - ' 


ASTP (USA) PCUlC/1 ' . 

Time: 05:35 COT . 


PiraDY - the cabin pressure bacK up. Evidently. 

""-rff SraJlfcrift;! you nliHt thU^ there v,s . najor proMon, 
,>.er. ..t there cert.^nly i:/?;' there's a„>-tMr.g - We one T^• 

..„.r. In our M'tlsular spacecraft that may have a prohlec It 3 
canera in oar Pa-"=»^ We ■ -e changing it around today in 

sihcvine a soc^evhat Qin pltjtuie. "e ".iiauiiiiia 

crde^to op-anuze our 'IV coverage. Ifa still a usabie canera, but 
r^'s n't aS optinuin quality. It's probably a good thing the crovd.d 
Tave ^;;e s^.e^er box off last night. You'v. also nay have heard on 
t"he - sLe of cur conversations, that - we're picXing up some ct the 
control t:v:rs around the cou.ntryslde and they are ^.^^^^ J^J^^^^f 
VHK riKb^ on in to the spacecraft, which makes it very difficulty 

V r ;..n^it"-.n^ Tl/crev did not hear any of that last night. 
fltSugr Je^ ^tacX d v^the Atlanta control tower was giving sone 
trstnSlors to Eastern airliner landing about '.at par^i^ 

point in ti-- ^Ar.d. it would ^--/4 ^ , '^^^^^^n^ cre.-nen who was 
communications been nooXed u a. ye .xpec ^ 

evidently wearing tne heaaset / ^.^^^^ - if we had 

t^l^^X^ rid^hairh'Vd itr^u; he didn't hear that 
been calling he <^ vr°^ ■ ^ discussions today - you may have heard 

sLeTe^tt fav" Ib^ut ' e'^Jal^Tthe telenet.y para:neters having sone 
f^irlv wild f uc^uation.. We spent a good portion of the evening 
fairly ^^^^ ^'^^^^f^^g .^.ameters that were noisy and we've tracked 
It Z.n'.f l Iou;?e Of iSividual components within the inatninentat on 
;:^ef -na nIvTave some particular t^^e of problems, but at this- partic 
^oint ^ir^we do not have enough data to give you any indication 
w?a?30 ev;r as to what the problem nipht be. I'm not to 
wnai.3o r.vci no WW „-v,__^ r^y. rnrn ve have lost tno3e 

ir.clv to you that - in any way, shape, or form, ,e nave _ 
iK,,iy tj J ,hat ♦he-.' - thev do have quite a btt of fluctja 

parar^eter., J^^^^^'^V.^.^^ ^ ' ,ty cloae eve on it. As fnr 

tion and requires us to - l^je.^^ ^;;,7^robablv heard Tom report th.t h 

a mild la tro ntestinal distress. It's certainly sonothing at this 
a mild ga.tro inv disturbed about at all. The normal 

- D^if taJ— ^5;-.^^ 

h.v tha'^ituaMcn develops, but ve really don't expect to hear too 
now tha. ^^j;^^;^^^ ; ; ^ Here's one other thing here I was going 
rfl^^lJ^^ Z%JZ t. c^.era, TV coverage today if I can - 
;L rr^t '^nlle I'n trving to find that, why don't I let J. v. 
Co'weU ^hc^^ our e^eSments Officer, say Just a few words to you 
abcuf sime or the experiment activities that we plan to become extensive 



AST? (USA) PCUl-D/l 
Time: 05:35 CDT 

^ ^ PUDDY . - - some of the experiment activities that ve plan to 
becon^e extensively involved in, in the remaining d^8 of the Jssi^. 

COmLL Okaj-. Starting on day 6, ve're going to start 

running the SIM BAY experiments. These are astronor^-ty^e ex^^lnts 
that looK into space. And ve've got three of those One is^e heuLi 
glou instrument. It'll be determining the amour.t of intersLuar 
hel urn and. also determining the temperature of the ga ! Lthe. one 
is the extreme ultraviolet experiment, which we're going >o -be do^-ll 

due to the misalignment of the vehicle and the instr^x-nent anl the d^ad 
on divs 6" I^. I'"?"' Of the instroment, so tha? 

nof . 5 : "^^'^ ^''^ pointing at stellar sources, tha. 

ve point right at^them. It's an instrument that looks in a wavelength 
that you cannot observe here, on the ground. So it's - it is •-eallf 
an experiment on this mission that - r.ost experiments we ran, we 
usually Know wnat's going to happen - on this one, we'll be locking at 
rlt}^'^ so'a.-ces not knowing what to .xpect . .Ar.d the scientists are 
'hS L ■ n 'k' ' ->^F«ri-'^nt . rne other astronomy experiment 

: w ^ runnmc is an x-ra;/ experiment. It, also, is very i^ff^"- 

cult to view on the ground in the wavelengths he's looking at He'll* 
re .CH-King at stellar sources, alscV in the 1 angstrom to 100 "angstrom 
vavelength. Is that the only o.nes you want me to taiv abou"' 

on tnr'^^Ls. ' ''''' ^^-^^ questions 

CCN-'«'ELL Okay. 
^ _ PUDDY Let me sa;/ Just a couple words about fr- ''ussian 

coverage tnat you might expect today. The Soyu^.crew has still not ' 
cnec^ea out two of their canieras : TK-a - which is the one that or'-^ 
tnought had a problem with and, you know, later tra.ed ^^^^e ^ll^ 

it was the J^ojiction box - and TK-1*, which is their .-xter' ' ' -.Ic-. ' ' 
Tneir proposed 7\' plan for today: . around 95 hours 
which is Just a continuation of a program they sfs 
talking about somo of their :.SCC activities . At o 

the flight plan listed as TV lh-2 , which covered'- *, 
that does use the TK-i* ca.-nera, they have ooted not - . 
coverage. At 99:20, there was another scene called ou' which 
covered the second undocking. Again, it was using that ex • rio; 
M.-i .ney have elected to delete that. At 100 hours and 50 minutes ' 
ground elapsed time, 16, which is more or less their control c-nter 
report on the flight accompli shm.ents today, will be using an alte^na^e 
camera. But that partic'^ar scenario will be provided. And r,f 18-1 
'tT/.t .engineer is gcing to ropor^ on the prograr. accomplish- 

ments, 15 also scnedulea. As far as /vmerican TV is concerned, we* know 
cf no ch^mges at this particular poi.-^.t in tine in that coverage. In 
ctner words, we're to provide ever/thlng that's in the 

Time: 05:35 CDT 

flight plan. Since there's a - this is the last time, I guess I'll Ke' 
a chance to talk vith you concerning our controller action with the ' 
Moscow Control Center for this particular niission, I guess I would like 
to 3a.v tnat the flight, n-om our standpoint, and the interaction that 
ve ve had vith o-ir counterparts in Russia, has been extr-=elv snooth 

of J?Kh H?/nnf''^''r'''^ °' simalations prior to the' mission one 

01 vHicn did not involve - 

ASTP (USA) miE/l 
Time: 05:35 CUT 


t UUUl 

to the mission; one cf 'vM .^1^.^^^ ^ opportunity of 1 
■ teams. Only tOo inv^i , ^ ^^'^ involve all tv, ^^f^^^ions prior 
that did involve 1? J. ''^^^^on periods or th! "^'J^''' "^"^^^^ 

lot Of these people L" ' ^ ^PPOrtunity to «o to^n ' °" ^ 
I think the int! haven't had a W a^unt of sir- 

b^e'n o.!, ,l:^-",^;-' had'vUh' t'h ir''eon\";r-^^^ ^^^-t- 
better. The sp'oiy^st t ' '''-"^ '"^ <^ould have asvlf .""'"^ P^°Pl^ 
ned; they have b ^hoy sent over here ^as hi' 

^^tion When ve've ILTlt ^"""^''^^ ^ith a trenlndon" ^'"^ 

a.^' iratial n^nf "'i'-^sts to then and all T ^ ^"^"^"^ °^ i'-'for- 

■ ^r;h:^Lr^- vin .e act 

the maneuvering .n. he S J-'d:"?"^'^--^^^ the Ap^U^ ^uTbe'r'' "^^^ 

redocking and ur.^ocv''^ Slayton do all the - all th . 

?UD2Y a^air., piIotin(r: ^ ^"^^ ur.d.cKing and 

is doing t^a-- v,^ ^^""^ lock that u- t 

Q'JERf ' * -ha'.. ' ■ positive vho 

PAO "^hank you. 

QUSRv J*;" ^^he back, Martha. 

cc.r.'.e:,orate the sixth'annfJer-^ri^^'!^"^ ^^^""^'^ either era- ... 

planned. -«t cf k n:v ledge t ^'v , 

*^ » lie , t h orp fa * 1. J 
Ql/SR-/ ckav ^ ^ » -re is nothing 

I do not belie%-e --a- t^^ v ^""'^ ®^*"^^ SooJ qu-sMo^«i • u 

PAO .' ^ attenpted 'i'^-'-lo..3 tonight. OV) date 

;:-"--n ....... :.\^rc^.:i^:f--^-'„-.s --r- --v- - 

ASTP orbital inclinaJ c ..'^''n" f ^^^'^'^ ^ use fro.. TRV .y.^.^, 

north than any previour! u . m -'r"'^ '""''"'^ ^^^^ groundtrac> rTrl 

the first A.-=c-i^a.-, -^ll fli'-'nt. AKTF astronaut^ r^. farther 
'-ru.? -^-^^^•* -racoRon to .-ly ii^ectlv oveT?;nH ^"^ta..ce, wiu. 

p:rr,r,v • ^'^'^ London. is thst 

I find that ha-d tr, brf-*^'"'^^ American a^itronauts t,, 

-»*v... t-- ^^^^^^^ 

J^euter^-, please. " across London. 

Time: 05:35 COT 


WUHRi Did T 

PUDDy ^^'^"^^^t - you brought th; vrn\; 

they reportei that ^^^^^-''^ ^^ey hea4 i t ?k y^"- 

turned cff. i''f : ^^^^^ ^-^^ nea:Jr box'l. '/.e thereafter. 

man uiu be X^^r ^ ' '-'^ ^'^t have th^W ? crevnan. And that 

have R . " cre^-r_en heari *h- v«vl ''^^ ^^th certain-v 

~. ^^.ierstandi.g when l ul _ '"^^'^ them 

-••'D OF TAPE 


Time: 05:35 CDT, GET 
Date; 7/19/75 . 

PUDDY headset. So I think I can say with cer. Anty 

that not all three crewmen heard the waXeup music- One pf them nay 
have but my understanding when I left vas that - that the voice com- 
nunicationa indicated that none of them heard it. You - you aay be 
right though. • 

PAO Bruce. • 

QUERY Don, how many hours would you estimate tnat you 

spent and your team members spent In training for - for the flight, 
not particular aspects of the flight that you all gone through before 
but in - in the Joint aspects, those that took special coordination 
with Moscow or whatever? 

PUDDY That question Bruce, has got to be broken down 

into a couple of different categories. We begaii some of our negootia- 
tions of course even before the Joint agreement was signed, I think 
back in 1970 there was 9oc.e initial ver>- high level - contacts 
made. Of course there weis sone discussions amongst various people 
associated with the space agency at that particular point in time. 
After 1972 when the formal agreement was signed, the activity picked 
up considerably. There were five working groups formed and these 
people carried out detailed negotiations from the standpoint of making 
the necessary modifications to the Soyuz, making the necessary modifica- 
tions to the command nodule, getting the docking module built interfacing 
with the satellite, the press'ore environment changes that were necessary 
to prevent the - the nitrogen problem. Those went on and Just terminated 
really right before the mission tnd I think there was probably on the 
average cf 2 to 3 in some cases according to the working group as many 
as I Joint meetings per year, with a lot of work in between. As far 
as the actual around the clock, so to speak, support of simulations 
with slLI the flight control teams involved fron the both the .Moscow 
Control Center and our Control Center and crew involvement from both 
sides. I think it was in January that we had the first siTmolatlon and 
of course we had another one - well excuse me there was one in December 

that didn't involve all the teams. We had one in March that involved 

all of them. 

We had another one in the latter part of June, first 


of July that 

Involved all of the elements. 


Jacques - - 


I don't knew. Bruce did that answer your quec 


to the level 

you wanted? 


It's because I have to run I'm sorry - wakened 

up by 

morning music 

. What kind was it? 


We had Tenderness on this morning, Jacques. 




Tenderness . 


Oh, okay thank you. 


Yes, Bruce go aheeui and finish your question. 


Yes. I quess - how much of that v&b detailed 


say as far as 

flight control activities in training and you've got 


Time: 05:35 CDT, OST 
Date : 7/19/75 

Sims and what work that you put in say outside of Bias directly in the 
Joint aspects, the aspects if I can get meaning across that dealt 
uniquely vith the Soviets. Things that you vould not have probably 
been doing otheivlse, say ve had a flight of a similar nature v vthout 
the Soviets, some unilateral flight but then you add the Soviets to 
that. Vhat kinds of things tine vise did it take in addition to that. 

PUDDY I'm utill not going to be able to probably pin 

iovn the exact nunber of hours but let se say that the majority of our 
simulations centered around launch, la'onch aborts vhich of course are 
aujionomous activities, a very high portion of them centered around 
rendezvous which ve consider to be a - a Joint activity from the stand- 
point as meeting one of the prime objectives of the Joint mission and 
of course then the simulations I aentioned to you earlier wher'? ve 
essentially picked up at s<xie point in the Joint activity tine line 
and usually went up through the - - 

CiD 0? TAFE 

Time: 05:35 CDT 

in increasing cr polishing oir^rrfiViencnacr:^ L rr'"*' 
module systons and to a c^rtfl<n^» ^ back-up on the cormand 

V. had a^lrect interface ? th?^"c;>r J'" '^'''"^ "'''^ 

I probably had'somethiri. he orllr oJ 5 ITe 8^^°'"' '''' 
And that vas vith or ^ne ora^r of 5 or 6, 8 hour nms each. 

Joint activitiL S iolo Lt-KuL ' ? °" •"'^^ ^^^"^'^^^ 

^.en^n^re o^? - ^^^^ 

coopjpL vent in S^r^^^r^of ^tS^^^^^^ - 

or running sooothly - W in te^flr vf".' ^'^^ " 

PUDDY ^ rT ri xT f ^'f^<=^'^^y^ hov vo-old you rate it? 

vhat you mean by prcf ici^r'v f 'u'r^I ''^''"^ •^^^^^ 

....... ..^ V! 

cxp.^s^c. .or. :r.s together? T„sfs the kind of thing * 

, I thiHic ve're - vhen ve firt r*-^^^ ^ . ' ^ 

.n each .in:ula ion that ve've had. that is Inproved ^Hu^in 'he 

An,! , • ^^^-^ coordination and exchange of inforr-AH^^ 

An. that level has maintained itaelf throughout i^^^ ^""r' 
^. I unaersta^id the way, or the question that vou're a'ki V i 1 ~ 

' C'Sr^ - ^ -rK Of profici'ency ■ ' 

c.^'t Sc>^ ' ' the contingency plan if Soyuz and Apollo 

Ev.--ten vaa a--ve vh^n ° !' ^ ^ regardless of vhlchever 

-''^ further questions? 
PUDDY TharJt you. 


Houston, Texas 


AST? Change-cf-Shift Debriefing *iO 
Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center 
Houstor., Texas 
9:20 p.n;. CUT 
July IP, 1975 


Farticipants : ' ■ ^■'''-'■y- y'/.'y^.\yy:')yyL 

Niel Hutchinson, A3TP Team 2 Flight Director 
lens Marianetti , Pu^^li ; Affairs Cfficer 

ASTP (USA) PCi40A/j ' . ^ ■ 

Time: 21:17 CDT, 85:57 GET ' ' 

7/18/75 » -'Of uti , 


atr- cre-:.3^::>:-: r'r^?-;^^"^-?.'^-- ^ve^-body probably 

a^t, bi. I'll get to that in ]"s^ ^'^^ that thev 

^ - it', no big deal bv the Cay Tc. l\ ^^^^ of ^u! 

°^"ute 1 g.,e38 you probably watih«.r* : ''^'^^ ^^^^ ^l'^-*- i in a 

s h.^. And actually I f^ink th« « ! ~ activities fairlr 

-•'^ Jla,.r,,d. They v„e 4 I ^iS l'^ "Sht <,x.otlT»hen 

- that ve te r'.itf ^ '° " "Itu.tion 

i?h~-- - " r£££i»^^^^^ 

« sundord thins In the fliin.-^ .! ; »•«» tire Ce h.^ 


•-'Oduio Oe;, vhich VSH roallv thf ^ P'^^*^' >jse the dock 


Time: 21:17 CUV, 85:57 GET 

7/18/75 - 

vent, to Ded. The reason that ve do the 02 enrichmout itt to get the 
FP02 up every night after we're through vith these Joint operations in ' 
the comn&r.d module and docking module. And, of course, since ve didn't 
get the enrichsierit vith the command module flov we decided to do it vith 
the dook;n£ nodule. And ve have a standard thing in the docking module 
checkllt-t that raises the partial pressure of oxygen. However, it takes 
it uj. to 2^0 nil li meters, which is about I4 PSI, which is way more than 
ve really needed. So ve told the crew to take it up to a 170 I believe, 
which is like about 3.? PSI, something around there. 


Tixe: 21:22, COT, 86:02 GET 

7/18/75 - ■ ■■ • 

KirrCHIIiSON - -170 I believe, which is like ebout 3.2 PSI, sone- 

th^ngfro!^ there., And also, as ve were putting them to bed they were 
Tv vlTZL and wanted to - we had sone extra water, so they wanted 
To the secondary coolant loop and ve told them to go ahead a..d do 
:hat However ve did tell them to shut it off before they vent o bed . 
beca-ase ve n-omber 1. don't have enoxigh water to run it all nigh.. ..u..ber 
^ - nhou^tSe evaporator on, the secondary coolant loop doesn't do any- 
't^;; Sut hea? th^cabin up. Nov, as I said, every night when they go 
O bed there's about - usually abou-. an hour's worth of activity or so 
by v L af^er the last ti.e we talk to then and we tr;. and get -.rything 
cleaned up before we say goodnight. Then ve say goodnight and Just 
^h^r rnish closing cut the spacecraft. Our com tonight, in terms of 
co^-ri" a^n't Sat .cod during the gett i ng-ready-for-bed ti.e and 
Ti'SSoid When we saw-- finally saw them I gue.s maybe about 1 5 
rrter "he last tltr.e we talked to their., they were they were doing 
;e docking :^dule 02 enriC.ent. However, they took t all Je -y up 
2V-. which is what the checklist say^ instead Of up .o 170 nilii-^t.r. . 
And ^e^e'J aching wrong with that except the.t in turn ^^^^ 
up to about 55, which in turn r.asked the fact „^ V" ^^^^.^.^^^.e"'^"'"''- 
left the waste management vent valve FWW flew VLI : . U 
dtmped - it hadn't been venting through there earl er ^^-^J/^/J^^^^; 
iTl m'ter of fact ve thought there raght be «<^f J^^^-^.f vl to 
didn't want to fool with it tonight so ve vent to this other va to 
:n4 h the S and would you believe, vhen^ the cabin finally bleed back 
drv^Vto ? it keep ri^ht on goli:. down to 5* - 5 I guess it was and this 
Sap .r^^d r ^at after"! walked out of there. I va3 just leaving the roor. 

a Matter of fact nnd they got a high 02 flov alam and a ar.d _ 
it vcke hetr up And the teazn that va. on choas to call then, which they 
;t'TuSt doing When I left, to teU thea to secure the waist «ana,enent 
vent ialvc. which vl 11 stop the high 02 flov. And while they ^ 

; i/ T thJnV fh«v also told them to turn the secondary loop off 
Te^Lfe i :n ti ylh 1t d" ihey .hut the water boiler off but f.rgot 

'urn tV l^o; cff so the cabin was kind of war* and ifl be laore 
'LfoHab^ f^r then to sleep. Other than that . even/thing's completely 
rrSra^i'l rLuJ c^ln't have an:.thing oU.-, except f,>r questions. 

PAO Any questions. . \ , . ^ a r .^m 

Qui'PY AS far as you know, has anything, been omitted from 

.he iSnne ih the area of experimentr. with the exception of 1 earth 

rCB^.'^rce3 pass bM \ oven «a«ple, 30 far? _ . _ y. . . if* 
H'ri?-H1M!^0N One other thln« - yes * that - no - Yeah, ncrc x. 
'h^v thing. rho.e ivo things plus^the EUV ^^^l^)!^^^ '^"^ 
vhi.-h intend to g-H anyway back here on - In fact ''1^^^' 

How different i« U^b«ing - working on this mldaion 
ilubl Ar«^ there any outstanding (garble)? 
HifrrHlHSOn there's only 10 shifts and I'n on the 6th one. 
n u.*htir} - H Is a UUle different. It '. XI nd of hard when you 


Time: 21:22 CDT, 86:02 GET 


'ion't - everything's fairly concentrated. I think it's kin-J of obvious ' 
The flight directors and the flight teams are kind of conroartmental i zed ^ ^ 

each one have - for example, my big deal in this whole* thing is getMng 
them to bed every night. I don't knov a lot about rendezvous and WA's and ' 
etceterr., etcetera, because I don't ever have to do any of thos" activities 
:n the nission. So the flight tearas, the ground teams are kinJ of specialized 

each practiced the particular parts in the mission as opposed to Skylab 
•-•here everybody got a crack at everything sooner or later. And of course 
the duration makes it - you knov you can see the light at the end of the 
tuj-inel before you even clicib in - so the duration makes i'c - gives you a - - 


(USA) PCllOC/1 


Pa5" '° ""''^"'^ along hero co„p.P.<i to vhat vo vo^^ 

esign, I vouldn't be so sure of but . rf^f''""' "^^"^ ^'^-^^t hardv.'re 
arge percent of the hardware tU J 'T/t''^'' ' "^^^^ «^^=P«ot that so., 
vry out a counle mftr«» , ^ it ana, of course vf>'n«> , • •"'^"-3 

^-i-. Th.e co..el^rcre-VhI°'rr^' ---i the Soviet's o"n/' 

« "^^'cx Of a lot operaUonliiv Lof '"'^'"^^ they 

there is no u^.exp^ain^.f lois'cV"^ '"'"^ °" ^^i^. -re vou ten • 

tnis mc^ment? pressure in the corjrarfi n^/, tellmp 

I didn't hear the cr-^'s JL. *=o-arate statement in 

"nexplainec, u is the ■.„ , .,:„ « fact. " It is „ot 


valv.. M . ^^'^^ the Batter is tf iul * ^'^^"S Jower 

valvr, they're going to aet t h« ^ ^''^^ "ioegn't shut thl 

.ceu,.ut. ,..,e v4ch p^4r,jrjr.L^%'-? 

';STP (USA) Pci,oc/2 . 

rerence started an'd that the 0^.0,,^''' ^"-^"^ a\o,, 

Uun. abo t it because bo^H c:/"=^^^^^i- ^°»^unica,f!;°7 ^he press con- 
c.r^s in Moscov p^d all ^ here were ^ "P if you 

r:ve cr the crev, aU .^^^^^ °^ ^hose eentle^n ve^ '° ^^^^^ <^ap " 

LND Of TAPE ^ asked - - 

, : ASTP (USA) PCi<OD/l • ■ ■ ■ ' . - . - 

Tirae: 21:32 CDT , 86:12 GCT 

• aske.i'^ncl tonight ^ZfllTZZ ''^'^''^^ ^^^^ question, 1,^ it's been ^ 
not a Whole let o^re" oLVon the^aS at ^''^^ ^^^^ 

what -3 it like working with the IJvLf /"^^ * ^^^^ that's the natter 
international mission |he reason f I f 1^''"'?^^"^' and being part of this 
. the sa.e as doing Apollo iSsr^h^ve rt I JK or ^t''"' ' can't inagine if 
of guys, in >k33oov at the erd of a inL^i \ ^""'^ ^ bimch 

1 .J£h. have b,e., concerned abourbe.'orf.'he nl'si' f -oT', ? 

'J (. '-.T Dei.ween ourselves, both crf3vc a^A -h^t-u x i 

-fj-r. i wisft there was another one of thesp fii^rVfe u i 
^;ne to all this trouble to learn hov to work vith fhofie £or^'* Tf" 
like going to the Moon once and never «oinsr f ^'^ 

of thA . , 'itver going tack., /ou know, r-er^ent 

.nto , traui,, .r.d h.d to =ake .one real Ms ieclMon. M>e >'^^n/,°i 
undock in a hurry or sonethlne, between tvo Mrt' -oreeWe^ 

would CO. but I fhinV t»*,t,.« ^ ^ k wr...oi centers, bt.v that 

would we Wto d/i"!""' '° '""''^^ ' -^-'"^ " 

QITERY The creva of course know each other very veil. 

won do the controller, here and i^;;^^ ■h""SLrir:;uld"r 

wanted An answe" ^ ^ ^^^^^ * <J^«tlon and 

HUTCHINSON Wen, to answer your flrat question first. Thero 


'^as been a fai-».i, 

^^;^-n ror Alex'; ;-e,/ f^''^ ^'-er.^tT-r^''^^^ ^^^0^/',,^^ ^^XOV. 

Le.i3 v.o is Zar" """^^ ^itle L °' ^^^^^ cont^^r"'' ^^^^^ sit 

oy.^e air vt:! '^Sf -^atio.s thV^^.f. ^-1 the,e ,as .et 

■-■tephone "-{n s kind o^- ni, talked to^h«.» ^-^^n bec^.^c^^ 

d^^ector - _ '^^'"^ J >^nov then a 1 '^^^^^rent irnrre °" 


Tine: 21:37 COT, 86:17 GET 


i^J.CHI^SO^- - - to on the telephone 30 tines, yen probably - 
they i give you a different inpresalon vhen you met then, but I think 
I '.ncv then, you kncv. a little bit. Our Joint flight directors - Frank 
Littleton, and Jay Honeycutt, and John Temple, all knov them. And have 
haa - : air fare anount of Interchange vith them. Probably not as much as 
.e .vo ere-.-, have had, but certainly enough to get to knov the people 
air.y veil. As .ar as conveniation - conversations have a tendency 
to be a little bit . one-sided as you go along, and vhat I mean by that 
one person starts and says vhat he has to say, ai^d the other oerson 
very Ge^don internjpti him or stops hir., ur.til he's Sort of at the end 

then it', sort of "hey, it's your turn." And 
vhat o vhat rsXea tsea a little cirabersone. you don't Just - offer a 
thought or part of a though', and vait for a response, and then develop 
a thought. You kind of give the vhole thoughit and then he gives his 
v.nole thougot and that's probably one of the things that makes it a little 
f ^'^'^f^-^^ trar.olator is going in one direction vith vou talking 

it 3 best for you to get to all the va>- to the end of vhat you vanted 

-^-^ ^^^^^'^ f^'^^ that probabiv r^.es 

X. a little slcv. But, other than that, it goes fairly veil. 

^ J^'f^y you vere handling the hatch thing last night 

hcv did you go about d<>ing it - I aean you had of course your American 

counterpart over there. Ajid I suppose you can rely to a degree on a 

direct interface at that end. Hov - hcv did that problem compare to 

^K.r^45i^!;r* ^T.r'^ i^''^^^' and a 124 up there - that had a problen. 
HLrr.HINSON Veil - I guess in this Instance that fact of 
the natter is and in any instance like that vhere thej-e vas scnethinfi 
going on that was abaorasal th3re control center is talking to ^heir 
crev and giving thea inEtnictiona. The tvo crevs are back ar,d 
forth to each other vhich has a tendency to try and keep things from 
getting out of step. But the important thir..- about the control cen*'>rg 
talking back and forth la for the control centers' inft ructions to 
the respective crevs not to get out of vhack because it's easy *o c-t 
out Of phaae. We can tell Apollo to dump the tunnc] , and Soyu^ can 
'-n - or Mosiov, tell the Soyut. "Hey, they're not going to 6>mp the 

>-unnel for another ten sainutc-p." And all of a sudden, Soyuz is 
t-ylng to do a presstu^e check, and AjvoUo'r, bringirg the tunnel dovn. 
Nov Kaybe the Apollo crev vould have said to Scyuit. "Hey, ve'rc cilriK to 
d^mp the tunnel," and So;,?, would have said, "Hey, you're net suppose to 
io that, ve're having an integrative check and they vould coee back to 
us. and ve'd got it Borted out. IVu know - that's probably vhat vould 
happen, that's kind of « double check. But the difference obviously 
:s that you have to »akc Sure that the ground InatructionB . or - directions 
Of coiamenta coBing up from the two independt nt places arc fairlv consist-nt 
And the other thing of course, ve vere trying to get established last 
night was to aake sure ve'rc on the itoe vaveler.ght about what v- thowtht 
was vrons:. because - and it tm-na out that by the vay - ao I urderatarTi 
in retrospect after oo.^ing in today, and hearing sose of the people 

^-^^J^ that naybe th 
-control <=ent,rs.* L^f/f^ ''"P°"a„t tJat ^ °»^. vas 

Technical - tho*. \ ' ' ""^^ you 

^"st 3 hard - . 



iillTCHIIisOK Thai', h. j , ■' ' •■. 

I no-, a ne^er of 'r?.'°"" '» »"»ver because as'far 

<^*i"^ne a va-vo < ^" certain ^aseg ^>„•n^- f " ''^ ^ "•'^'^^ say 

C.L?e?J t^hlt v\ spacecr.r. or so.;:" "f;/' /f J-t " ^^-n t^ey 

B!o<,* v,^ 47, understa/id that it ^ that, ve hnve *^ 

consistent of en!,'!!" " J'^^fs or n^eo- UuL. /"'^ 

a-vftv ^ ^^'^ '^'^''■^^e ve vore ''^ " -Vbe they 

^^^^ ^-i^ts ^^.^^^^^.^^^^^^^ ^^^re are 
•-^-ajse. yoii iinov oura hftv<s. >,^^^ . (-fined their proced-j-^Q ^ 

^'*t vould be hard to put yoi fiLl '^^'^-^ra^'i I don't th^ik 
operational flexinnf, i ^ ^^nger on. I thir^v - ^nink - 

a..^^,.i^ tnat Junction box « . ' r'^-'^'^^^on caaera busine'-a u,7* 'I ■ 
'^^ i^ank you Neil. ^^''^ "^'^ ^^e s^-,- darn thing. 


Hoaston, Texas 

AS7P Change -,f_7hi ft Briefing. #1^ 
Lyndon 3. JohnQnn c ""^^^"S *15 

Houston.° ^'"'"^ 
5-' 05 p.m. CDT 
July 2o; 1975 


f'^-a^!.''. C. Littleton Acrn . , 

«°t^^^t L. Gripped 'xelf/^^e-'^* Direc-.or 


AflTP (Ui3A) PCJ»5A/J ^ 

briefing. To l«JdUt* f',^'" chango^of-chi ft 

b«en Rifling for th«e shift brl^flniB iTd 1^!^ T P*'*^*^" y«>u'v« 
»on.e of th« things that dtd toSfv bJ?!!i ? ''^ ^^'^ i»Pr««8ion of 
gathering exp«ri»ent 4ata! aJJ Juh the " ^nt?^* 'f'^ ^^^'"^ 
tn«y were having sob, proWeBs wit! ,f . ^^^^^P^^*'" of One instruaent 
The PI', are quTt« eiaur^v r V' r.L^!^". r*'^. very successful, 
experiment and aUo from th« k!i? «T ^ getting from the ajv 
X-ray. ve've . ve^'^f^rpJoble^ iuh frv'^r • ^^^^ '^^--i 
It I^n't working il\e U^w" le.r! r^L^""'' underatand yet. 
•fe get good data wh«n we co-old keep the to.peratur. related. 

e« W^an it gets slverat'^d.'grees^Iidr ff ?*'^^^»«^ely '^t rcor, 
'luite right. Vrf have gotten burst„^f Z^^*^^' ' ^ functioning 
going to continue to tfv to «t ft , ^""f > ^-^ ve're 

ve will be able to get Toae Sefi Tf7"\r^' '^"'^ ^^<^'-y 
vas a very busy day for the crL -Lv'"^' ?" * today 

.-ir-g. It's Of t^:irn;.s/;2^ oToS 'r' ^^•^'^'^^ 

all in all, I think quite horMtlTi^w^t ^^''''^ ''^^^^'^^ ^^^^ 

™k." I didn't knoJ ySuTat^J^J^'' T ^^^^ -^PPort 

Pleased with today's anivH ef ^t P?^ '^^^^"e- ^'o- I vas .e^ ' 
about how heav>. to nake t^Le actiJitle^vr "'^^^^ ^°^'^«2d 

■^ifncult, and trying to ^chedufrthr'eT. ''^''^^ 
able to get ever-z+hinc- h^,.^ 7 ^"ree g>i,,s i^ai time and still be 

they've b%en woX "t^f 1,^^'?!;- ^^i^/^-^^. And they've had - 

activities, and we're trying J^ L tM« It T 

du:a we wanted and not one a^otheJ tl^ '^^"^ '"^"^'^ 

I tho.fiht we were - fros wharirsoS^J.d utt '^o^^'^^'^^ ~ai. And 

succe«8f>al with that. And T thin^^l th^ ^ ^ ^' ' "'^ ^^'"^^ ^^^"-^^ 

up vhen I left ov<.r there a while 'a^^ HVlT ' '^^ 

vere getting along goc- not tnr, I . sounding as thoi^^h they 

and that's L 5e Jant it '"^^ ""^ ^^"^^^^"8 ^ay, (oo . 

A^'you^ii^s'^r--^"''' ^'^'^"^ ^-^^i-- 

craft or sonethin,? I hn!^d^;!e 'I'k\h''"f ^^^'^"^ 

docking HH^i.^e info th/ o^LTLI^J m "^"'"^ ^ '^"^ 

^ LirrLLTO:.- Lot no till ^-^hat ft v^*"'' ^^out . 

been having so.eproble:=3. Ve go^ifrs t ' ^ave 

water in the evaporator r.ct J^'r ^^^^-^-i^^n vnere we got some 

the duct is closed cr? like tha" we'd';'"'''' I''' ^^'^ 

ar.i we were concerned tha. the ;ew w^ ' , '''^ additional cooling. ' 

It doesn't present an^- threlt aJ aU '^'^ ""comfortable. 

i^eep that evaix>ratoravaiIlb'e to cL ^^^'^^ i^-^^"' - ^-v: w.^ like to • 

i-a..ning a little bit cooler than 

ASTP (USA) (.C45A/2 

f,rom""" "o^^o err 

predictions, r . 

i suggested \o tJi"^- '^^^ aald th. 

"it-ii, you kflov vlfK fv. 
^-'D or TAPS ' evaporated 

ASTP PCI<58/1 

TiBo: 17:06 CDT, UOiU get 


v« told thea hook it'uD crev comfort, u was an 

Qljgpy " 1* they needed it. • was an option, 

cpuld you Just tell m'IIZ ff^?***" "^^'^ evaporated ducts - or t 
faBilUr vith it! ' ^""^ '^"P^y it doaa - does ! J.^ 7 I f^*^' " 

a^d U'l rUf '^'^ ^^"^ ^*»te vator taS^ ^"'^ '^'^ evaporator. 

had on the noon? Wo- iffJarbe '^^ ^^^^ U^l Uey 

J^y^. Per3.-€t- --^^^ - ^ 

tt on tnere and lett*n.? <t ^'^'^ *^"'^Portttion . Pu^-in^ 

lulnr' P*-ri- ' ^'''^^^^^ -013 very a^.^i^J^f, 

vented vapor I ^'^^ ^^^^^ frozen shut vaa a duct th.- 

- to space, 


hWRY Will t^^ : ^-^^ and ve-U . _ 

rocKot, fired to=«rrcv ' ^^''^^ ^^^^ ^« ^^'^ to see the Sor.. re^ro 

te«t their engine., and I don't w!' " " ^-^"^ a maneuver 

excec* 't h!2 Moscow Control Cei:»er a^tlr I . ^^^'^ =engihy 

expec. hear tae nevs ryself a.nd I exreJt i ^nd T 

expe.t to «lay that to the Apollo 

i-ee Alexander. 



^^re details about, vh^t 'you'^W U 't'^ J^^. question, Frank. Ju^t wanted 

y'c'u L^'' '^^^ h r t e"y ^;f,n ^'^^^ ''^^^^ ^"t'- 

you ^.ov wnetrier the - this will be ^^^^ ^^u posted. - And do 

^U-^ri^r abcui i? ' =^ - ^--^-^'^ all Just what. 

^ell I car. tell ycu that - Soyuz retro fire 

is about 

ASTP (USA) PC!«5B/2 ' 

Time: 17:08 CUl\ 130? 1*5 GET 


li*l:l46 GET which I think' 8 very early tomorrov aorning. And I don't 
know what elao I could add to it - this ~ it vlH land - you know - In 
central Asia there Ju3t like their other vohicle* . There's nothing unusual 
or different about this landing. And I expect - aa I said I exj^ct to 
hear fr^a the Moscov Control Center that it all vent veil. 

PAO (garble) 

l8 the landing 5:51 our tine? I - I have heard 
about 16000 different times , anJ I'm very confused at this point. 

LITTLETON' Ok\v, veil ve'll look and Stse here. 

CRIPPKN Think ve can convert it - 1*6 1$ about retro - 

LITTLCTON Yfft, k6 19 about retro fire - 

CniPPiN It's like betveen 5 and - 

LirriirrON Yea, i thtnJc it'll - they'll probably be splashing 

soBfcvhere close xo about ^tUO or something like that in the nornlng. 
cn central daylight tioe. 

QUERY On - the Russians told me 5f3C', and then I had 5:Uo, 

and then .NASA they've got 5r51, so - 

LITTLETON Well, I lon't think we have their specific fplaah- 

dowri - they don't, splashdovn . Touch dovn tine. 

CRIpFE:; I 'a sure ve co'^ld get it for you but vo just don't 

have it vlth \ia . It'» on the order - 

<i^ERY 'HTell I cea:: if - - If ve could Just sort of get an 

update over in the NASA PAO place so ve could find out I cean - - 

grippe:.' So you don';, get up 10 minutes early in the oorning 

QUEfY That's right. Bob. (Laughter) 

CRIPPEli I'll bet you if you asked the FAO g'oys over in the 

MCCR, that they vcild b* happy to get you a nur.ber. 

Qt^ERl^ Hov do neabers of tne tear, feel about Russia's refusal 

to show television pictures cf Apollo yesterday? And was there an^v^ 
sort of further interface - negocia - - 

l2iD 07 TAPE 

ASTP (USA) PCl*5C/l 

Times 17:13 CUT, 130; 50 GET 


QUEBY - - tean feel about Russia' a refusal to shcv television 

pictures of Apollo yoatorday? An-i was there any sort of fui-ther Intftrface 
negotiation on that today or any more explanation from the Russian side? 

LITTLETON Well, let me tell you about that. I negotiated that 

■iS a matter of fact, and I don't think it waa ft refusal on their part 
at all. Tney actually said they couldn't do It. U'j not like they 
could and didn't for sooe reason . As you knov, they had a couple of 
TV career&a that weren't working right, ani after watching picfires of 
Soyuz, we simply decided it would be kind of a good thing to see a picture 
of Apollo. And I askei then if it were possible to do thiis, knowing when 
I aeked then it wasn't likely, but hoping that betveen the two of us 
we cyviid find a way to do it. The only way they had to do It was to drag 
a cajBCra frojB the orbital naduie back down Into the descent vehicle and 
take pictures out of the descent vehicle window there. And as it turned 
out it was at a bad place in the tine line to do it and they really didn't 
have the tine. They have to have their hatch shut between the descent 
vehicle and the orbital module for undocklng and they 3ir:ply didn't have 
tif?.e to ftet their caicera down and they talked to their TV people, who 
also said that the caiaera was set up and designed for interior shots and 
ve probably woiddn*! have gotten anything even if we had gotten It set up 
correctly.' So I don't feel like that it whs a refusal on their part at 
all. I think that it was Ju3t aoB^-thlng they weren't able to do. 

CBIPPrIf I think that it's probably worth cora'tentlng that we 

are Just ae reluctant to change the crev'a activities in any of 
that Joint activity phase beciuse it was all very crowded and very accurately 
tine lined and any titr.e you pexturbated It, you fouled u[ thlngi fxa-ther 
down the lir.e. So I certainly sympathize with their decision On that. 
' PAO ■ Bill Gregory. , , 

iiLW/rtY Frank, could you elaborate a little bit on the temp- 

erature problem with the X-ray experiment. Is that experiinent have a 
thensal control or is it a case that it should have had therp.aJ; controH 

LITTLETON Well, from what I know about the experimen; right 

nov, it was deslgiied and qualified work over a fairly wide range 
of temperatures. It isn't working throughout this range right new. And^ 
none of us understand quite why. We've tried to lock and eee at the klnd;i 
of things that the experiment is doing and explain then as a function 
of tenperat-ore but we haven't gotten th.-'re yet. It's a fairly nt-w probler, 
I'-Ti sure it's p:.>lf:g to be worked through the night. I hope V'«'ve got 
a better answer for you toaorrow. It's Just like cause and effect. Only 
thitig we knew is that the experiment seems to work when the tecpertiture 
is higher. And of course when you open the door of the experinent to begin 
:.-.> take iata the temperature begins to drop. So it's di ff icult . to get . 
through a pass ani nt the sane tir;e keep the temperature of the experiment 

SPEAKER (Garble) 

QUSKY I Just wanted to say 7rank, I'n real happy for you 

that you're going to hear all about the &6yuz landing, but hew about ur.? . 


Time: ITsU COT, 1>^:50 GET 

will ve get everything that comes in the MOCB? 

UTfLETOR I don't know vhat the aet up U f^^r that. I'd deftir It 


PAO Our PAO at the coneolt in the MOCR will relay everything 
thut Is going on in the HOCR. Everything that 

LITTLETON And I really - I don't want you to nisunderstemd 

vhat I oalil. J don't expect thea tu call eveiy two or three minutes and 
give us a blow by blov description of - they did this manouver and ihey 
<iid this firing and they're oo r.ain chutes and touchdown and all that. 
When it'3 all over I expect their flight director probably to tag up 
their lead flight director probably to tag up with Pete Frank, Anl 
I think it'll be tae sort of Interchange vher« Yeliaeyev will say. Pete 
ve landed okay. Everything's fine. The crftw's veil. They send their 
regard?, etcetera and so forth. I don't, expei,t a detailed exchange. 

SiUfW There v&s a nusor floating around that the Puss i an* 

had S3k9d i f they could reserve an hour of TV time on your net. Is 
there anything to that V Have you heard anything like that - free landing 

LlTTUiTOH No. Sure haven't. 

QUERY A few raotcents ago, Deke Slay ton complalnt'd that the 

spacecraft attitude wasn't quite right for Earth observations . 1 don'*, 
know, you guys cdght have gotten off duty before then and a couple of 
things was slipping by too fast for them to observe. First cf all, are 
you going t£> change the attitude of the spacecraft - - 

en: I OF TAPS 

Time: 17 a8 COT, 130:55 GET 

J"^^^! . " " ^"^^^ before then and a coupU of things vere 

8 ipping by too fan for him to observe. First cf^U. are you goXn, 
;o chango the attitude pf the spacecraft to make the v ewiL 2^gfe 
K-tor? Second cf all. if yoy are. are you going t<, recove? ?Se data 
that you aay of lo9t vith this obvious prctlea? 

iiHofT'*' ^'^^^ astro - - 

Vh« ^^^f;^'* ,, ^ ^^i** rrom vhat - Tom acttf ford also Jlscudsed 

him ahout it when he was passir^ ..ver Hawaii and I think he kIviL 

t/'rr\r '^'^'^ apparently the problem i a due I ^ 

the height of our orbit and the attitude thai the field of vlev that 

rap dly Consequently they 4on't have a lot of ti^vj to look a it and 
decide they want %n take a picture and take a picture. iTve do h^e 
our flaght planning people curr..,tly looKlrtg at various va?. ^e ca^ 
maneuver the spacecraft that would allow them to get a larger flelS of 
' t^ 7i{^^ forward a litcle bU, such that they cS «ee the far- 
there ai^atot of ^tTt'. ^'-"^'^ ^^^^ ^^^-^ some perturbations because 
tr,ere are a lot of attitude Qanewvera that do go on durinc. durln*^ thla 

tint' X I«ytod that we're going tl be"golng EhroS^oV''' 
invnw!^ i^e^^ to make sure that there an. no p«,blemf. 

l llCAl b wr"\^''* attitude to ar.other. Sc. thafa goin/to tZ 
Is^^^l^ «<^OVerins the data, unfortunately the 

imths tnat we're going on are not repeated except in a ciuple ine'an- 
ioat when -"^^ really ion^i believe there was any great ar^unt'of data 

, : LmLETON I 'ra not sure we lost any data at all? 

^'^^f^P ^ , I 4onVt thirA they've got as many picl-^es cr mavbe 
^ofr^si ^ '^^^ still getting data c'n it. 

>«.i,-:?r *v . ^One other thin^, I Just heard a little exchange 
earlier in th« day between you and Ton Stafford, He v^s eayir.g aone- 
tning about swinging from the trees and I didr.'t hear all of tLt cc'^d 
you Just recap it for us? ' 

CRIPPEN Okay. I guess I was - Tom hsd Just gone throu,?h 

»uid put on nis biomed <.enacr3 and to do exercise for u?, which ve nor- 

t^i/Z.^^^ "'^f ''' to get an idea > physl - physiologically how 
they re: getting along. And I guess Tom heid gotter into it earlier be- 
cause v.-had deleted that x-r^ pass ahead of time, so he had sor.; extra 
tiwe so he thought he vo^old go ahead and pvoceed and get it done But 
u^.fortunat^ly ve ha,l aone data requirements on our tape recorder 'that f 
v..^ve got on board which also to require - record his heart status ^-^-■'.^--''r. 

ftold hfi'rt?''" " '"^^'^ all ready to go an i exe;cise^i ^^^^^^^^ 

arjd I told him no, ve weren't ready for that an 1 he was going to have ■ ■ ' 
to delay a little >^hile. : Veil, he Just said that he was rea^ to do " ^^i^^^ 
anything that we ask lnclu<!ing swing through the trees like a - like^^^- > " 
Tartan or soa.-thing. I g>iess he was feeling ve:-y athletic at that 
particular point and in a good humor too. 

had passage over Rm- f ^ ^ it vas n„f ^Perlmer.t 

y«e<l th«ei a long tlmT ^ opportunitv ! t Siting condltionfi 

t^'fy've done thts Vo^ki^^^^ t^^ey can-; \ 

Hot to open the ha^ M ^^^^^ockl n/anf f ^ ^ '''^^"^^ '^^11 

£.\D OP TAPS they're - . 

ASTP (U3A) PCl»5E/r 
J 17:23 

7/S,V^'^^ CW. 131:00 QCT 

tn« - thai poriod of"adw?fieJ u!.'!; J^h A"'* I thlnh lhal'a 

"^^lar-^ ' " ^c^"" ^^^^ - - 

m«y'.-n involvi-a vith Olefin! ' i?"'" P"'<"1 of tie. „h.r 

you know, they'i.e Just not aMe tn t\^'^^ ^^"^1 of late, becau e 

there .«tU socoti^e after docKing.''i' M^v '''' «et 'bacK in the orbital n..dfarbe?oJe\?e 't'''^';''^' Pressure che!k 

SEfiy''""'''*^"^ '^■'^ fo' t^ei:^ «^ ^-''^ there. So ifs reluy 

you're satisfied hr. Jng £0^1!^:'^? ""l^ - I knov that 

fra«. Of «ind ye3tera"i S '0 i ^'"^^^ i" that 

«hovn o. the television 3e' I , L ^ '''' "^^^^^ ^^^-""'t £.ing to 

pretty angry people about ' ^'^"^ "^8^^ there were «cL ^ 


it at an. U vas all conductefrr ^"'^ ^'y^ody angry about 

I gueas the icing on tn^ cfje 3! tl = °f Lf 

that .a,-s that cLera is ^e^urnot carS)""' ^^'^^'^^ state.!:.^ 

ca«er., I gues.-, to take 7l^t^^J^ Ll lr, '^'^^^ the kir.d of 

if t.h«>y vent to an this ^lo-Zf J ' apaoecraft. And e^-en 

- au.^ SO ... not concerned about^t.' It ' /nt: V^i^d^J^^ ^^1' 
I^VEBY ■■■■■■ T ■ ■ ■ 

ti«e before you fojl th^s'o-i'^' Vr^' =oncer«oi nov. bv 

^^Htie anxiou: :bout^°t/"°^ ^"^^ ^ ^^^o^' y^r 

J**"^"^ Not a period' 

UT7LBT0N Not at'Ili? 

Mythln.-, about that! '° '^''«''»" " tl>» last ai„ute. dTvIJ k;,. 

LI57:iT0i; Ye! i t . 

MO Tner. are no fu-her questions? Tnari you 


Houston, Tex*3 a. 

ASTP Science Prlefing 
,Taly 19. 1975 
3;00 p.m* COT 




Thomas Giuli, ASTP Scientist 

FarouX El Bat. Earth Observations i. Mappii.^ 

Friedrick Vonbun, Geodynamica mnhoresis 
Robert Snyder. .Muitirurposft Furnace !. El,;ctrophore8is 
SmS DoL'.hue. Ultreviolei Abeor^^tion 
Robert Hudson, Ultraviolet Absorption 

David Garrett, Public Affairs Officer 


A3TP (USA) ?Ck?A/X 
nwi 15:00 COT 


^ h« via in turn IntrJducXe oth^; ' ASTP .cientia' 

o'?J^r''*'' briefing' 'o'!'af;}r '*' ^^^^'^^^'^^-r- -^o ' 

•i»«ion in that w. h^j:^'^^^^,^ f "li'-tone In the ASTP 
«i-8lon and ar« entering intnhat ve 'au''tJ"' ''f i'^**^ 
ejenu. And 9P thought v« vould tlk^ fJ? ^« conducting exjeri- 

perifRent pr< grwn snd then ve will ?! «^ [ ^ v^® "^^^^^ P^^e in the ex^ 
sa^rize fbr you the accompU^^Jf. ' ^^'^ » ^-^^^^ date ?o 

Prograru Before ve go into th!^! , ''^ ^^^^ phase oxj^erJasents 

not .ware Of the sl^^ o? our sclen f ^^P^'^" •l"^* '»W of y""! « 

you a brief r^-.ieu of the ?otU expenSr' ' ^ ^^-^^^^ 

sutus report a^d then introduce 2 5. ^ Pftci^«ge then go into the 

g^tara Who have individual ex^erlmtL . r' !^ «ur>c.lentlfic ulZii. 

;->oard the nission ve have sHx^lrSentf '^'^ On 
hree catagories; the space scHn e^ the u7 "'f ^"'O 

cations. F^irther breaking Lvn lnfTf'v, sciences and the aprli. 

astronomy --P^ri^enta: froVthose LTr/ 

inve.ti,.te phenomena ther«! One o? the- ^o't ^ 

-y^tem to the 5un to investigate solar «h.n 

is an instruaent <ievelop«ent effort XL v??^.*" 

for gaaiaa ray astronomy. In thf L »Ppl catiun 

ve have tv. experl^eZ vhich .re i;L'j"''r°-'^"' P'*"^ spac* sc ^"cee 

or the Earth from the ^aitJorof irf ^^«*»-vation, of xT^^'/rlce 

nents vwch are investfg'tinrthf l^r have two I Zl J 

iM'x'r''* life LfenJes '^'w'"'*'' '^'^ '^<^- 

Jf'ich together are investigating the arL^ '/* ^"""^ experi»ent< 
Interaction with live celU thft ?- f f °^ partieie 
-re energetic cOB^io p;rt cles and" f "'1.''* 

One Of those experiments i^v«sti«!terth' r r ^^^i'^g <^«n3. 

cella, namely the retina celL ftW ^1 ^"^!'-«^«'ion vith the hLu. 
observations by the astronauts. oJe of '^f ^^^^ ^^^^^rporate 

^he interaction of particles v th dor^a.t Mv^' "^"'^ investigates 
bo grcvn in thu laboratory aiid atM^^f^T ® ^^i^h '■'111 then 

^,Jlrd exp.ri^ent is one'5;io"^ ^el: g^tes f^'<>-'^^'-<^^^- And 
Jith cells vhich are alive and e7ovirAn\l i'-''^*^r«ctlons 
dishe.. We have three experiroen s vh'ii . ^" P^^^'i 

l^inds and together they r^^Jy'j '^^^f" ^y microbes of various 

vnich - ^^'e si,.^ricanL o^vhic^ts tL^- ^^-^^ort 
the tvo spacecraft and fro^ various 1^^ ^'*°^^"' inside 
o *-he^ndasioA .xd returned ^o h^on bW°? V" --'^ers 
Also blood s^'nples are analysed. 30 JharfH ?'^'^^^" analysis, 
and the i^^. ^y^^^^^ir^J^^ / Z ^l,^^^ the microbe. 

•' " «caist iriiection by 

Time: 15:00 CDT 

We have two exp«riB«ntf vhich enphwUe th<, nedlcal appilcntloni to 
eloctrophor«»l» experiments vhioh you will hear «or« about shortly. 
And the other application, category i« material proceaaing. fther^ we 

o^IL; Tr •JJ^'-^r • , f '^'•^ «,0Ptate4 vi tn high temperature 
proceajing of piateriala in a speoUl electric furnace, which is on 

iTnlLli!: .^"^ ^he remaining experiment investlcate, materials 

procesaing in the low temperature or a«i,lent temperature aethc4 by 
allowing tne reactant mteriala to defuse toward^eaeh other thrpuL 

r^J"; «^^the autu-vof the experimentation eo far on thTS,- 
aion ia that ve have completed tho lolar ecUpa« experiment MA-Ufl Ve 
have completed aXpost^all of the uUraviplet SsorpUoHxperfn^nt 

?^u: ,K ^»ve completed alaoat all of the aone forming fuJireLerl- 
«ent MA.U7. We have completed the mioroMal ^change e^Snt IrIJ^;. 
And ve have completed all of th* - one of the elettrophoreaia^^^^H 
nente f«.OlU, 8y the va^ .he titlea and numbera of^heee ewWa" 
can be found i-eferenced to and described in a document vhtcJ^Ia^Juable 
to you through our Public Affairs Office. It 'a called "AsS ExpSril^^a 
-^ary". and you viU alao find these experiment, dLcrib^ i^\;e 
American pres8 Kit, The experimenta which have been in operaUon L- 
''"f! "^'^ ^^"^^-^"^ operation in the soS ^e are 

mertf MA * «*P«riment MA-l6i and the electric furnace experi- 

T^ tj^l A^ ^^f'-^i or the experiments aa80(5lat«d vith that rornac; 

^ °f scientific investi^^^ori 

you ??Lt S'liTn ;"^<'^^ BP-<^«craft . And ao 1 viil introduce to 
^JnlMn f .v^"^" Too Donahue of the University of Michigar.. who vlli 

explain to you the reletlon of hia experiment, which is the ultravioUa 

n^ nuff '''^f. ' completed and u 

being finished up at this ver>' moment. Dr. ponahue 

th. Thaiu^ you Tom. Nov although - and I think properly - 

B^ct T^fv ^^•'^ the purpose of the Apollo^t.^nlr 

?^ J /r. ' perhaps something else, there is a - it 

for *^!*ii;lr impression to characterize the Apollo pro^ran 

for the Moon or th a one as a nonacienti fie olssion. There's lota of 

fn th^i;;;!?? ■ -^^^ '^^^'^^'^ as there vas on the Apollo lunar, 

in the ApoUo lunar prcgrar.. And of Course it is, as Tom JuH polnteS 
out cur purpos. is to Ic t you know what is going on in the way of 
good science on this mission. Let me first of all point out 1 have 
tho tT" o experiment. My co-principal invesxigator is from 

the Johnson Space Center, Dr. Robert Hudson. I have colleagues from 
lul -'^^^l^-' Anderson; from the University of PU.s- 

tZ nr.]' red-headed fellcv you might have seen on 

the fir ng line during the last week from Harvard, Wke .McElory. And in 
fact we've recruited tvo people from the Soviet Union, Dr. Kurt and 

moat d ?nluu Lr.T''' ''^ '''''' ^^'^ -r-i--^ vas ^he • 

most difficult one they ever attempted to carry out in the history of 


how .ucb oxygen, atonic oxygSn^^^i l^!v. ""f*" '^'^^ ^* *° doten»ine 
*t th, altitude vher« thw Jpace^Jn1^r«v? '^ !• 
very siftpj^, claawic.l way/ u^I w^^.'^f"*- ^^^^ dene by a 

You ,en<i light rri^ th^ ALurtJ^r.*'* Ut^or^tpry fcj a long 
«P«cial vav8 length in t^e uUriJ?i^f ?^ * ^'J*"^*^ ^^olt**" or * ^ 
.baorbe. only by^xy«en^?n U^;: Slh^riaC^e' 1^'^ '''' 
*u th« cast, cf the other, ut it L ove^ to r ^^J* ^^^^^ ^'^ "^rogen 
bounce Oft of a special adrror on ^^^^'^ 8o;u^ . 

hov :.uch nitrogei there vrbet^een'the ^v^" '"'^ oxygen or 

he li,ht was absorl,e.i or dIaSe l U t, ZTT. "^""^ 

that experiment at thre« di,Verent ^"^ carried out 

1000 mn^^ra. And vrjust nMnhl?^^?'!^; 500 cetera 

purpose Of the experl^nt vas fn^he cT. * ^'"'^ '^'"''^ 

abur.a.%nt constituent at that J^/nr ^^^^^-^ i» ^^e ooai 

hitherto •x-.uoe^l ^thod 4 space the J *^«««P^'ere was to verify by 

'^^s spectrometers aboard «a?ell es^T*^"? ' 

yeara and years and years, but s a J^iinf T'''^'^' 

this ,l..orption technique hL\ot bi' .^irvT'^^^^^^ ^''^ 

haa the ocportaiitv of u*{\<,< \ ' b^f^re oeeause we haven't 

aide by elZ JZ ^t ''"n'lt r^c:^''^'"*'^ ''^^ ^-^'^ 

waa to detect a species that 'a never been f'^i" '^^trcgen. the idea 

such anall ,ua«tities. And v ^"U^^'^;' ' ^^-e in 

vainiy not clear yet. It 'a int^^^t- . i-iesc, .\t s not - cer- 

participants in tMs explr oer drf.''*J ^ '^''^^^^ States 

Of such 3ub3tance« such^aslJior?^^ or J^^.^f ° P"'"'*"'' •^^'«tt 
Earrh-s atrataphere. And in So 'th^t^" " O'one 
experiB^n; vas conceived about 3 yearTJt/: T this 
Voodhoie to determine hov to U3e the sc^t! ' f ^^^^^^ «^ 

And ve . a.'.on, the posaibiHtlea that 3U^ * ""f" ^^^"^ *v,llable, 

^sed ia a larger version of 'his exJL?i«n. prcbably will be 

Hying collection of ref^° t^r thoLa%"'/r,f ^^^^ « 
^f^ or the space, the space lab carriedtv th^ « "^'^''k ^^'^ ^P^^"- 

iifiht froa this apace shuttle 1^^^^ I and shine 

atnoe^ere. through si;; o^er^ [Hhe ^'^'"^ ^^'^ ^-^^^'^ 

sreai big spear and then ^bcI ZTtl rlJ V^^^^''^'''' "''^^^'^ '^^ ^ 
thirling .hcut that kind ore^pe^iLnt r J '' "''^ ^^^^ 

monitor 8-,..stances in the 3tr«TLihe"e L'Tffllr " ^'^'''^ 

years ago vhen the cD-^or^.m^t^ - pnere .nnt affect sonea . Several 

this mission oJ\ilr, Z Z \TT;''''' "^''^ experi.^nt and 
■Mng cut on a s^ll acal^'ira ^ ,\:n v'ere' It il'''' "^''^ 

«nev 30m...thi,.g about the proper^'es Tf tL I T"^"' ^"^^^^^^ 
ract i. hov the experi„en? v!;3^.:n%%:fef LlhT??::: p^^^.'^xt^^ 

(USA) KkUJk 

hours «co iM«n in Hitjit v^f th* AneMv^iisy of th« pr«|«nt ««Asur««Mintfc of 
Ato«ic oiQfgoe iwi j tht of nii^rPit« 'ft th» uj>i»r &ti»3iph«i'*. 

«x(^e<:t to itj|>Uoh th« r«»u^t» to th« jourt>«d« 7 gmi* %hn%*u m, t^jamAxv 
of yJ^nt %t« 4i4, w f 

P*^ ThftiiX you vtcry »u;h, Vi'jimk ywu v»ry nuch tv. Don*- 

hu«. Th« n«xt »-ti»«^«r U Or. F*r Ki B«s fro» ^ae S^iti^ttoni^t lufti- 
Utloa who v«» th« pr fvclj>*l of 8ci«nHft? Inv»|Hlgttor for tlj« B^x^th 
QN«rvftticfl Rxt*ri»<?nt Thi« exp«ri*«ni l« om of th« on«» which h*a 
b««ft |j*rfom*a during \h« Joint phw* ar.a vlU ooalinuo thr<>ti^ cut th« 
«oUr 9ht»t aLl*^. Dr. B«*. 

EL PAS Thank you "iVn. I and g«rJtl«»«n, i^he B».rlh 

ObstrviitJofi* DJii rhotogr«p|iy experia«nt io9» oet U99 « feUcX box, 

f**ajy usiaf ih« cftpabllity of a*ii tr«.ii.e4 obf.*rvftr to Yl*u»l 
ub»«rviitU'i'i» ana trbtaln j4* jtc^jrar'** sf the K»rth, TVii Bftrth *» « vhoie 
with ft.ll its phenoneBh» *n4 vith its features. 80 tb<f«» obaer- 
vitlpns wliJ. be dcn« over Isunt;, ^ver the ocean tui-i also ine t.mospher^- 
ITi* - th»t isn't tii& atawsphi^r* , t renlly n«%n th» veather ..*p »et«ology, 
Ir. the Earth's Otaervttioti and photograpt.y e}tp*rl««iite wq hav« ttcne i»0 inv«»xv 
gaijr* A,id inveatigfttor groups involved in this dnd t^iey cc«« frofn 
aany goveriasent institutions ivnd uni vcrai tlea aii «;froa9 th« cowntr/ 
and aifio have participation ly aose nine countries in the «xp«rir^nLt. 
Th« aioet iwportdrvt aspect of tho experisnjnt ia th« faet that v« hav« 
put together the iargeit grv.«(d support t^aa gf atjy niaaim yift flovn 
in 8p»c«. We havo ecm different aroups, vholher they are in c?c«an 
v»?»ael* in Nev Zealand, or off Au*tralla, or off Florida, or Ncv gr.giand, 
to several aircraft flights over Inita, over the U.S. ar.d xIpd ever - 
near the British lele. On land ve have goologiata in the areas 
in liie Uf>it*d 3tate», in Africa, and ^gypt , and also in the Arabian penin- 
sula, ve have px^t together a very good ground support lean and I 
ptr3on«,*iy baliev* that all of this caiae from the Interest of the scien- 
tifis ooiwiunlty in aarmed space aissions and vhat can - trained - or I 
should say vf*!! trair^d aen as observers do from spacp, visually and 
also phd^ogr&phieally* The fields in which ve will be doing nuch of 
the work are ««?oloQr and heriJ we will bd looking at the tecktonic set- 

ASTP (U3A) m kS9n 
nm»i 15*00 COT 

to nap y«4 tiUl current* vtn of th« coast of Fiorlda an<i tv.!^ . 

Unh ve wUi l« tiding to F*,cto«r«ph mi io,m,nt th,^hj^*e ?o the 
-lesvrl «ones *h&i j»y te Inciic*ttve of the growth of deaarta i« ^* 5? 
or ,.)cther. viiX be Ooing this vith t;e'Sa * ^v^'^Jr'^o^; nZllTi 
U very s.nsUtve - sensitive to color v^r^ation. falJt Ulor n! tlli 
vt, were r.ot afcle to get before, Al«o In the color^ubject ^e Lve Sit^ 
together « color vheal th»t the listronwte did c»n'v in the ™Ini , 

with .oa«, 5^ colors on each sUe. The »Ue that I-^ ,hovlng you 

<iulte a bit of variation of oolor in the desert and this color differeL*. 
a.eo is indicative of the age of the deaert. Yorcan ae. ?hat fLrl are 
.-nar^. ^.ny red Jeaerts in the , In the vprid arid ve have att^p ed to 

^3 by the crew in the training vt.ich they did. They fiev in Wa 

of the color vheel . and they ca«e bach to ua - ve ahould change the fire 
and auch and auch, And v« aX.o have the blue aide! vM^h ia fhe ' 
uocan coiora mat reflect the 4eep ocean color aa veil &b th« l^.ir 

* '''''' Ughter/aJralao ^oL'^o j;/v I 
m, wttri ;'f; r« to do ii to calibrate tL co^^^^^ 

21. V)^ aatronauta t<>U ue. 1*he exact colora of what they 

are aeeing n realtime. We - in hydrology, ve are doing studies of 
the snov aslt patterns in the northveatern United States and me 
southern parta of Canada, and ve are also doing this over the aL.. 
but the most importantly over the KimalayaB , and thia baaed on an 
internationai agreeaent betveen the f;A3A and Indian Spaoe Rear-arch 
0r«ara2ation where the Indian government wanted to obtnin photograph* 
of the sncv Mlt pattern over the Himalayaa «o that v« could all vork 
togeiaer to decipher the di'ainage pattern of the a now aelta, a^i 
therefore they can use thla inforsation ^or both irrigation use or 
viiter use and for flood control. In met oorolofflr we're con.^entrat ina 
on the photograp^,y of atorm centers. That ia , to help r^teorologiata 
develop cor^puter »odela of their hurricanes and of tropital sto^n ■ 
Wo re also doing several studies pf environcwntal value, for instance, 

timt 15:00 COT 


tn eooj^ftmion with th» Ini*rn*tion«i MwltlB* CowaiBSion, ve»U \>« 
wUhtng tor oti sllvkB in %h(» uortharn Atlw^ic, w»d ihti t* in oU »htp 
rout««, Wfr«r« *l»o photo«rftphin« a*riy of iU« rlwr d^lta* of th« Evth 
to «tu4y the grovth of th« rlv«r d«U»« tif\A 41*0 to atu'Jy th<» pro^>i«« 
of pollution. To elottng, I flklso voui4 atko to aay t^t*. v« wr« doln« 
$om oto8«rv«tion of cuUu»*ia f«»tui'«» an4 thi* U Vwle&lly to 4«temint 
whiit th» iiralt* of th« rt^aolution of ih* By«a of tn« ak»tfon»ut« froa apace. 
For inetanctt, v««re ftsXlrig thta tc, without th« of Mnoculw» or th« 
t*i«»cop« th»t thsy ftr* carrying, which i« » *oo« »Jghttrig »cop«, with- 
out th« *i4 of that, to look out the window and ««« what thoy can 9e«. 
Onoi the Honnevllle RaeotracH an4 the BonoevUie I*k« in Utah. Two; 
which ia a very thin but long line, Tvo; a very large structure but 
b»5lq«.Uy very different in color fro« the aurroundlcjge , and thla U 
the Great P/raald In Egypt, and three; very intrinate deelg'i* in the 
Peruvian Useria, theae are the Naaca Plain oarking*. '♦'hwvk you. 

PAO Thank you very »uch, Dr. Kl Bai. Next y^r speaker 

vill b«J Dr. FrUdrihk Vonbun fora the Ooddar-l 3p«tfeflle^it Center. He 
is the principal tfoience Inveetigator for one of our two Earth gravity 
experiment*. He*e going to tell U9 a little bit about hi* wxperUent , 
ani atwt the conpanlon experlaent , vMch will be conducted near the 
end of the »l8«lot>. Dr. VonVun. 

VONBUTi Thank you, Tow. The purpose of the geodyrtajalce 

experljwnt Is, In eeaence a tvo-fold one, Firfct , we'd like to ieteraine 
the gravity atio&aly In the iJtrth'a gravitational field. Gravity 
anomaliea anowaliea where the etrepgth of the gravity variee to a 
large extent. And aecond, to obtain experience in preoieion orbit 
detei-mi nation for suture tracking cf spacecraft. This aleaipn here 
gives us really a (\olden opportunity to do theee experinentB . Part" 
ieularly a$ Toe already K«ntlone4. there we in essence, two experimente 
onboai'd. One experlcient »ea3ures the varla^-lof^ the velocity between 
the Al'S spacecraft , which la in aynohronoua orbit , on 30 000 kilometer? 
la orbit and the Apollo spacecraft which i» in a very low orbit. So 
this measures the variation of the speed between these two spacecraft . 
iroa ihat speed variation, we can determine , hopefully . the gravity 
anomalies of the Earth's gravity field. This Is done by the Ooddard 
Spaceflight Center. "^Je second experliaent , and Dr. Weiffenbach isn't 
here from the Saithsonlen IriStitUte, does h siwilar approach, but he 
measures the variation and the velocity of tw^ GpHcecraft which are 
almost Is the saae crbli. In this case, he will uae the Apollo on one 
side, and the docking aodule on the other Bide. After the nifslon, the 
docking cwdule viU be ki eked of f , and vlU be In a distance Of about 
300 kiloweters traveling in synchronization around the Earth. And the small 
variations of these velocities will be measured and again the variations 
in the gravity field detemined. We have at the present time tvo other 
experinents goirg on between ATS and Nirnbus , which is an unnanned 
satellite flying in Apollo orbit around 1000 kiloneters, and » second 
experiment, the ATS OBOT. Both of these spacecraft are being tracked 

ih* ATS vhtn U»y gQ wound th« Inxit, Tb« Av^Uo fpac«or*ft It • 
thirS of fhf rxprrtL^^ But th. 4,,^rtanc» iv» in two thlPj.. Fir»t, 
U'» very icv, vWch U i«pon*n% ^oaui» th« ««n»ltlvlty pf th« 
ilionIJi of gr.vlty mid U .u^h higher for •J^v-flylnj jpj«. 
"r*ft thw U *• for • hl«h.flyln* .pactcraft. In »4dlt on to thli, 
v» can do thf oth«r ©xp«r4»wt b«lvt«n tli» tvo »p«c«erftfl I J\wt 
^nuUi. thai', an opi^rtunlty v« n«v«r had Ufor«, and vou^dn'V 
uJl iFthat >4iflon hidn'i h.v« flovn. Hov, what doea thla do. 

Bil) or TAFE 

A8TP ima) P0»»2C/l 

bouAdarlee *n<J tt*y^« ^•J^^'^i^MlnUoftid A«d »«oo4. ve vlU hopefully 
rpUed orbit, 4«t«mlf.aUon /j'*g!/J*t*nar;rUunQhe4 In i^^. 

of tb« 5c«an. I have a topcgrap^^y »ut thU »pftc«craft vlH 

to d«Uoi sitaU ^^''if current • an* other phenojwna, 

vhU.h are ittportant fOr f^^^* ^^Jl-lckiS thU wews mcXlng from an 

rutu'e .eiuoe HASA'. n-^J^^^-^, J.t nlriro^ world .adju«l 

other vori3, weM t*Xe a I tricllng n»Uon c*Xle4 the TfK^^t , 

put It in orMt. h*ve Pi^;^-^^ .^'jf JhuS B^te U'onched on one of 
I tra^Klng data readout ^^^^rth^ee tv^ rxrerl«ent» 

?rtrthi:«rinrvJ;:/th'^ - "^"^^^^^ 

....a. rue. -nhlr^yo. ver, ... I. 

ia fro« th« Marshall Space "^f,\;;f;'!;,?::;tl on t^car^Z H«', going 
h<, ia ..seriated vlth »*veral of the ^^J^J^^y ^^^^ ^^en concludea 

Ull .3 about the -i^^^^'^P^'-^ri 'f„trl^ o;brard. another electro- 
nnd a iHtU bit about a ?^:i°;i.^^''^A*d he's going to tell u. abo.t Which is yet to be ^ f/' ^/.f^il during the Joint vhM. 

- .^rr::ntsi:n r^r -t. s...^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ 

Max PUr.cX Institute f^'^^^ioch^-BUt^. h^ been ^^^^ ^.^^^^ 

. typo of elect»..->phore«ls u«ing a a tern J^^^r^^'J^J^^ ^i^l cello. 
.,aiVe .ucce.s fully to get ««P«;J '^^J^^J ea^7typTof apparatus with the 
rhU experi»*nt is using «»;*;5i*.^/,f^%i^tafe of apace for electro- 
.aae fluid conporvont, ^^^^'^J^^^i'^^ f I^on^uah a better separation, 
phoresis, vhich is the ^^^ff i^"S«,J';e ^QatuJ^of ap»=e for the pre- 
via - the weightleaaneae la the , of electi-ophoreais , the 
?«Blng of .-^terlals. ^'^'^^^^•^.f .^at Iranf^etal ay^teos that 
Hvlng oelU, the heavier <^^='P°'^^f,* ^^„J'^te do not - thla pheror^na 
normally on Earth viU aeparate and segregate, ao 

A8W (U8Ar PC 1*20/2 
Timi iSiOO COT 

oTS- .-st;r 

Krjfesaor Hwnirig»s 9ys».<»s that has be«n coaplcted. the fluid svstcn 

h ?K\^f convection indf^es a'broLn^i* oV that he gn,. Also vith th« ban - vlth the livinii « if 

systcK vher« the fiuid is r.ot in iaotl.>o. This i* »or« of an an-lvHoIi 
irnu?;..';* "'"^^i-Furpose furnace experiment* llTill oIZ tT^:^ 
mentioned f separate aeUin« of aetais experia^ntft. The ^010 la » 
>;rnace «y,teB. vhlch U an elegtricaUy heated furrmce. sVrg^e »oL 
»n vhicn three experiment* at a tlae caj be inserted and thJ eXJf«* 
»eUed and ar.d solidified, They can be groupei ^afenUal y tSTJrff.reut 

vhere the ibjectiv'i'f:""^ 
,hJ* h^tr "^4 '----ae...vus, acre perfect 9lr.«:e cryistals of aateriaU 

t*:"- electronic applications, Metale a;.d alio/ 

^ta'T'^n? t'T^'^ * d^nal-.ea that in fhe ««Uen 

Ma^e viU ten4 to separate and segregate. There ie aUo a third catag^.ry 

rlL!?" ''^•'** f'-in^iPl'f objective U to elucidate anrcUrlJy 

«^c"rr\\irlr '"Tf"'" CQrvvection that occur on tj^ 

gruunti. that can really only be clarified in the weightless environment 

A^ii^'lLa^L^**^"K^'^''f,^ expenaente demonstration, on the 

Ap.aio Eissions. Ihe aultl-purpose furnace thai ie being fiovn on ASTP 
Ind ?n L*^'' * *^difi,-.Uon .f a furnace that vas flovJ LsZJ. 
nnd ndeed eeveral c, tte investigators are using the A3TP .l^Blon tc 
IZIZ Tr. ^f"^*?^ ^hat they did Sb.ain on SKylal The 

electrophoresis is essentially a new experlnient. It has net been .i-Z 
ia space before as a - a;i experiment vlth the ilving cell MoLJ 
oxpertjenta have been done In the past h-wever. T^Ik you. 

„ / r. ^^^^^ Snyder. Oi.r final sceaker 

Dr. Stu Bovyor froa the Unl-.erslty of California, ie the pr^ncija! 


Boleotlfic tnmti«»tor for 2 txp»ri«enttt on U« ASTP »i»>lon. Neither 

!5 1 '^^^^ ^^^^^ intereitlng application 

«»d iiiipUcatlPij «id wiU be conducted during th» «#«ond part of the lUfvion 

jwid ao he (a going to give you tort of a preview of things to com, 

BOWTfBH oiven the tixe that 'a ftvailable. I thtnH I'll talk, 

Ton., Jun about the extreme ultraviolet teltaaope experiment. TTje 
oolloboratore in thte ve Or. Michel Anton. Dr. Pare«ce, and Dr. HargoM?) 
and than there tvo graduate student* involved. Bob Stern »nd Jay Freeiw^n. 
If it yorKa they'll g^ a * their PHD out of this «ort - thle vctK. 
3;*/ 'ic>«8n't vork, why, ve'U have « na^or diaaater of various 

Kinds. The - w.} have « large nunber of gri^und bast wti-onowra in 
the United btate» and aeveral foreign countriea inc?.udlr.g obaervers 
tn Russia, that are getting collaborative data and also have a very 
«ophtnlcated «fiat«u« g:N>up called the AeaooUtion of Variable Star Obaerverf , 
;S?.r;tn •?o«'f*lfted 8:-our.d ba«e data, l- 1 ought to t*ke a aoment 

vhich viu be far too uiKple for aw?t of the science vrltere here, to 
aaXe a coment on the nature of extre»e uU*violet radiation, ao you 
can ftU go to aieep and the rest of you can bear vlth ne and then ve'il 
v««e up science writers again when 1 gt^t thro'ogh this Utile chur.ii. 
-Ic3t of astroncao^ inforasition i» obtained fro« the stu'iy- • 


AST? (U3A) KkSQ/i 
Tltwi IS} 00 CW 

• than tut o?^'"** ^* ^^ii h-'ve donr.oi.tM! o 

SPKP to do i» in f^et po,,m^, * ^iel^ that va, thougf,t 

: • ■ Tom. ■ . • • 

appropriate nov oicn^^h/*T.*^? I thfnk it 

QUERY nr r * ^^'^ for Qu*fltf« . ''-''^ 

v=uir..v, .-.fvirra 'fin/^' r*"'" 

T4*t» ISjOO cot 

3cl«nUfU v%lu«? cn»r«es th»^ Aff^P U « prcgrw vlth no 

«a only oa» ,hift on fiwter SundU u«?f F*^'"*" 

convey to you vtiy «cU , vhJ^i ! ** . ' ^""^ ^ ^*^P» ^ *bl« to 

r**v thing that hft»nH b*efl doi* LCri«J C * ^ •*pXoratory 

vhU th« Senator gaict. • 01 *T« Ufd V ^^^^^f ^o^tra^lci^d 

that there va,n'v ar.y good ^oiJnSI onbol;d ""^ •^'V 

taihing about your e!q.ti»ent LTaU th%? ^ B^t'/I^"? 

30n« of our coll«a«uea vent tn *k* . v7" ^ • ^ v«nt - 

and 3.n.tar Frcxmire can bj :iaU3 thi AS?J I » - 

Uka that but ha certainly ia jui^ da^! ^ *«ything 
no 3cl«nc9. ^ vhan h« that there's 

Vhat - , 


the Bia.lcn «nd*f you Ma en ?h. nL::*:^' ''''' <^o"^ on 

you mght have racogniwd nSa of Lo^rv^f P*^^* ^'^^^vad 

in pure aoienca - «d in «o»e of tht 2r! ill ^^'^ hard in 

that are aaaociatei vith tr^appiiS^t^L o/Ti'^' ''''"^ luestiona 
problem of the . of the destrucUon of «LI 'f '"^'^ ^he 

I think that y.u could - oL^ ve «,uid ^^"^ And 

au<Uence to decide vhether or not t^«i« J!^* ^° - ^^e 

or not. There are a lot of good a fenti .T."'*'' ''''''' "''"i^^" 
»ni a lot several years of th^r lives n * ^''^^ '^''^ •^^'"•^ l"to 

ror this Bjissioti. ^^^''^ ^" - preparing . experinei.ta 

I real j vouLi like to^s^'ihJJ'H ii^^^ ««»ethir.g on that the . 
to put as r;ch science o^th* «i!Jf ^ * ^^'^^ concerted effort 

And it i« I shoJri :j:o Jh! " r \'hrir\'" ^^^^^^ 

sayir.g that tnere ia no 8ci«nL v ' . .! S«"«^<-or vouid be unfair In 
really read the^oc^ent tj^raau'^i^f '"'^f ^'^ ' "'^ ^^^^^ 

-J'*V t^ey "g'tlo^ '^'^'•^ °" ASTP and here are 

the intercom earller^^haf^JJ^'*!'t^rr.I.J^*''* ""^ 'Vgestlon over 

absorption ox,erl.ent. Can you detaU vJafV'""'! °" " 

v.«"i you aetau vhat happened on that? 


electro^., componenta? ^''TBt&is potentially uavful - 


conductor Mt«rial«. Ld'fh--®^^ «*mr4ua is one of your krI./ i 
these are nixed crvs* i!" S«rffi«niv« telurUe.^' )^!^L" f 

the vapor p'Me^:^^.,^;:^:;:/? --^^i-tel c^^Tll Thar'""'"' 
-luring the crystal grov-h ^w^""^ ^» 'Constantly turbuien.; 

a^n't have thise vejy t^iu^er. J' "'"''^^ " - -Pace vhcre ' 
thennal convection, ^'^'a'b ".Hr f'r^' ^«=*--V^u don" IZ 
- -ver .en ..J .^f! 1:^1^-- --^tjon that 

END OF TAPE P^riectlon - - 

nmi X5«00 COT 

tot Jl exp*rl*ent mult. 0*r,»n electro- 

X rJi'i r,«.^r ,..^..5 j^^i^^^.r^^^.r.;. .° I. ImI • 


vt carry oijfeoard l«t©r for in»i. 

W^^Y l>Q»a thU naftfi th»t you W - p«t, mtrn trust In th»t 

rtfcl %im •ccw»«(wit by ihe huawn \h»n the »«tyAi color* you»4 »f» oo 

Ei-g*» Yes, 1roI««4, l>«caust ve h»Y« h»<l In »ll of th» ia»«iQfl», 

vhnhfr th»y i^r* Xw^f «ii»lon«, wh«th«r ihey «r«r 6kyl«b nieiioot, v«»v» 
kftovn fro» *Xl cr«v« that th« color in the color photo»r»p*» thU v» - 
they brlr« back it not m goosj as th«y v«r« abl* to §«• v\i i% i$ »oaM> 
vh&t different. ' 

WKHif Dr. ltonta»u« v©r« yo)ji •ugg«»tir>g tbat fro* your *arJy 

■Iv.a you do have in«iicatlor4» of atomic nltrogan at that altituatT 

POHAKUK To not pr0p«r«<l to «ay yet. Wa hav* to look at tho 

iata c*rtfuHy ~ we - we've r#jcelve4 the nitrofen re»oftance «tgfi%l return 
fro* »he r«troref lector, and now ve have to lc?ck at the 4ata an4 ?ee if 
it v(ia absorbed. Ar.d 1 didn't have tiete to do that before I caw over 
here. I ran over here right after the laet data take. 

WERY I have an update to the Oerman Ilectrophoreete 

ejcperiBent. They hod four saaples and the firel one wae apparently partly 
dftsaged. ?Q^4ld you tell ue what kind of (garble) they had different aaaplei. 
and I thlU the first one they liad bhwd cell* ie that correct? 

SKi'DSR The flret sajsple were bone icarrow celU fro« the rat. 

The eeocnl - the eecond «a»ple were a »ix of rabbit and huMn red blood 
celU, third aaasple vaa lyrophocytee fro« the rat «uid the fourth 
eaaple which was in the cryogenio freezer a/id frosen before they did the 
electrophoresis. Thia wae their back*up aaaple, was a repeat of the rat 

QMEP'Y Conducting pure research on this flight - 1 think we've 

eatabllehed - you wish to do aore can you fly another flight without the 
political »hov of this one for pure ue>arch? le that i>o»ilble? 

8H)n)m Are you referring to like ai\ Apollo apaceoraft taission? 

The type that ve have been flying for several years? If so, the ar.svur 
is yes, ve don't neei to develop new spacecraft to fly pure eoientific 
jiiissjona. Even though the Apollo spacecraft was deeigned al»08t entirely 
with re<i'iirea«nt8 specifically for transporting and returning »en to the noon, 
it tarns out that the spacecraft ha* high capability for perforaing 
scientific adesiona. So, by all ajeans continued Apollo f I UWe could 
be scientifically Very useful in the Barth Orbital Wjde. 

DONAHUE But, NASA has probleas* has programs other than - 

than the • than Banned spaceflight, 'there ie an office/of space science 
that flief unmanned spacecraft to various pl-^ces in th« world. I 'a head 
of a science team for the investigation of Venus for example. And there's 
coaing alor^g in the future the Spacesh ip tic with the ~ with $paceiab, 
aa the big program and the nannea ep&oe program and they are laany wany plana 
to utiliie the Shuttle, to carry ye 17 exciting p&yloads into orbit and 
to revisit ther., refurbish thea such as as defracticn limited i.^ oeter 
telescope, a whole host of high energy deflecter , called a high energy 
observatory, ejA a «• laboratory to Kftke the kind of investigations of 

ASTP MGi*2E/3 
Time: 15:00, COT 

the nature of tlie Earth's atctosphere, and the lower atmosphere or the 
Ozone is called Al-iPS. So their manned space - manned space - progran 
has great plans for the Tature in this area. 

Qt^RY Ponahue, could you tell ua more specifically hov 

the results of your experiment could effect the modeling of the ozone 
layer? Is it now going onT 

DONAHUE . Well the results of thia experiment itself are - 

virtually are - ore - > only remotely relnted to the ozone lacz-er in 
the sense that the data were obtained at 225 kiloiseters, and the ozone 
layer we're worried about froa about 50 kilometers down t6 the - dc\n\ 
to 15 or so. It's - and so the that appllca - I mean that rslationship 
is somewhat remote. But, not - not all together because a - a precise 
knowledge of what is happening to atoalfi oxygen at high altiSJde is import- 
rvTit to urt'.crstanding the entire eyotem. It's from fctwaic oxygen that 
ozone is aade - but when I diacusB - when 1 mention that theie was a 
relationship I - I was talking about a technique a techniqii* that 
we're p.laikning to use aboard the AMPS payload on the Spact^lab will have 
a tunable dilaser in the ultra-dolet enjable of sending intense radiation 
over long distances fend - the - much largsr version of this reflector in 
orbit itself many many thousands of kil<»ieter8 away, ejid we send the 
radiation through the lover pai^t of the Btioosphere to the ccrner reflector 
and then back again, /md so - Infftct aome of the constituents of the Eea-tn's 
atoosphere that are iop'Srtant in detertalnlr.g hoV tauch o«on« th%re is 
there. ■ 

QUERY More questions if I Q&y.Dave, first Dr. E Baz., given 

the fact that you have neither the time nor th« eop^&istlcated photographic 
equipment that you had on Sk;.'iab , what kind Of gains do ycu expect to sake 
in the Earth Obs er vat icn Photography? 

EL-BA'^ The ex^'^rlence that w« havq had f^ora Skylab helpa a 

great deal into n^aking our questions of things tc ob»«rve very specific. 
That's why we d6 not really need the timsf. And we rejUly would he l<>oking 
At aotaething even though we cooe very quickly on it and maybe we'll see 
it only oftce but the crew would be &mre of the pre biers. And they are 
trained for it and they know exactly what ve'z-e looking out for. And this 
is the problem of tiae. And in * althougii there are aitea where we have 
k and 5 passes over atili with the 9 day mlasicifi. 'Tht other part of 
the question that relates to the j.h<?tographi-; etiuipnsent - I think we 
have iaproved the Hasselblada quite a bit* Kirat of all we *ie having 
two caneraa. t)ne of theia has the rescu?) piate which can keep the 
fiiffl back lr,to the - the - fila * bscxlng - or the canera backing,, fla'- 
so it can actually make photog-.-aaatic Eaaaureoents so ue can actually taake 
cort rolled photOttosaics frott this fils in addition to t^ie fact that we 
are carrying a special color film which vovild enlsaace the color aentations 
or tl.v! color sensitivity of what we get back. And the other thing ve did 
is that we're flying the one of the Hasflelblads haa a tingle lens reflex 
mechanism which allows the astronauts to soe eJtaotly what he la photo* 
graphing in reAl tisse. 

<t1¥^t And another question which laay appear sooewhat simple- 

ASTP Wi42E/J4 ' \'" >/ ' •■ 

Time: 15:00 - . , . 

} t 7/19/75 " ■, ' 

rclnded and is being hpro 

in audio form that^^' go oi'^thrr^Hf "^^ P-ess kits ' 

ing pure huinan cellB? °" ^adlo. V,-hy vhaf s the value of isolat 

SNYDER This V, . 

particular - is the najor'disease °' " ^'^^ l^-^phocytes in 

are slightly nore dense tha^ th^ noiSf ^f/^'^ °' ^^'^ And l^pJocytes 

1° -f---tion fro« othernaferi:r:\\^^^^^^ sScept Me 

And When separations other than Se ver' L^ff "^"^ ^" vith then, 

^elicate .eni>ranes are destroyed^d the eel L ^r^'^'f' ^'^"'^ ^--i- 
Uectrophoresis which sinpiy Lr^-.Tla f themselves are destroyed 

separation is a fairly dSiLS'sepLa^io^ f'^^ "^'^ acco.plisT^his 
on Earth beca^^e the cells ar:^aSe !n' . ^'^^ i^- is disturbed 

^^■'^ given very poor sepurati^ns^xhe hJt ^"'^ ^'^^^niques on Karth 
have been acco:.plished P^rgs "^/S^ f^P^^^^^ions of your Ivr^phocvtes 

Phoresis apparatus. But%hU ' ap'.ar«t ^^^^ « Hoving elec ro 

-nich distorts the banis and sedfl? 1". ^^'^^^^^ convetul" 
ai)d mix. space vithc-r the^hi^^ i ' ""^^^^ '^^'"^^^ cells to 4r\ 
sedimentation ve sho-old be o to Tt 1°"''^'°^' '-thout the 
once ve have this ir.proved s'e^araUon ve ^ ^fr"'^ reparation. Ani then 
^.-Phocyte Pc'!r:tLns Ll.f ' >o detemine vhat 

for Viewing ^^ursday'lnd^ihv'ias'th'e'^rrl ^^J^^oes that are assigned 
included? ■ '^^^ triangle a.nd the city of London 

there'havfbeen so.e'^olc Joe^'a^tr^r^ll^Jh" 'T.^"" ^^^^ ^''^ ^^'-v^^-^. 

the active volcanos only is an in^^lo;.? . ' observation of 

i^^. How «ucr. disturbriie 0 Th^! 'o he I ''T direction 

so on, 80 you get some - some infor-aM'^n ^iT^^^''^ ^ venting, (garble) 

Of the action from .Mav^na Loa ir Hawaii ZTlu Possibilitv 

the -W.t Baker in the norn Zl t''T ^.^^^^^"^^^i^Olcano in Com. p^oa 
are aware of this and thev vili r^vJ ' **'^!'^'"'«ton . And the crev 

in real ti^e and that viu g S a ?eel f^' f ^^^■'•^^'^-'^'^ neccHa^ 
t:-J case of the Afraf?) Trifngle th^Z-it?' ?^ ^''^^<^''^or^ - Nov in 
ore of the =.jor Ver^ old res^at'e^JroTJ.^' ""^^^ ^^-^d 

two large continental plates And thu »1 / " i-ipping apart of 
,and ve vouid liXe to havrde ailed SL. "?^' ^'^^ Srotu;d 

Ve do not have detailed photigraphy^o^ f " ^^^^^ ^^^^t . 

of the scjtrp of the SthiJpian SLu An! ^^^l scarp 
«ed «ea, and the l^t pa.f o? ^he^irstlo^reLu: to tt T!^^"^ ^"^^ 

ASTP (USA) PCi*2F/l 
Time: 15:00 CDT - 


and the last part of the question' H P^^'t of the Rei Sea 

Where ve're really nore interest; ^ "^^^'^ '^'^^^ °' l^"<i°n. 
harbor and the pollution tha .^^^V^ron't. ':^'' 
related to ar. oceanographio Itudy of the EnllT""tt' 

our oceanographic team is coo'er^t^n ^"f.f'^Sji'^" Channel in which the - 
flights and studying the vater xn J^e En^^\'%?^ '"^ '^^^"^ 

^ ^-onLTLther ti.^ ^^^7^^^^^^^. 

-VoS - ^^^^^^^'^ 

press briefing before the launch It vS T'T'""^ question. At the 
there vas a conet there. I v^s dri'-irf ^'""'^ '^^'^ ^ ^^-^ ^''^^^ 

launch site, ar.d a reporter such Is 'v.^ ' '^^ the 

ex.ited about it in Principle tur^n rrf .^ ^^^^ ^ 

closly apporticned bL^ause cf'v-cl.'" ' ' ''^^"^onauts tine is ^ .ry 
possible return is s.c, ' evei Ir^t^t. ^ull? ^'^-^^ ^'^axU^.^. 

NAoA on the spot a. to sa^.-ing ve"a Je CoSd 7 ' '•'^'-'t P' 

be able to n, i, Z tl\l\^' ^^^^'-^ then 

^'ASA -.D .Mv.^stlgate to see if ve coSA tV""^' ^ '"^ encouraged by 
I callei up a colleague vho h J niat t'nf ^ ^^^asuren^nt . Xnd 

vavelenghts of the coaet . An^the f ? ^^^^^"^^^ic^n at these 
aetectcr is a factor of a loS to loi^ t'«l"'''"' ^^^^ ^-^l our 

detector vras. Ncv the problou xs fir T"."'''''^^''^' '^^^ ^-^^ 

jad. va« riade at a coK:e? - u vL at Kahout.\ ' V"" '"«^^"-«'^ent that he 
^un ar;d by the tir^ you put in t^/L.S ? f"^ ' '•''-■"'7 close to the 
or that, it turns ou^ that vou ITse tll/lHT because ' 

-^'^Idn't - it locks ncv as "if ve von'? et f ^^^'^ ^° 
txo,;. although ve're stir, iookf^ni it t\ ^ v ''^^^ Informa- 

end Of the mission it vlll of ai^fd in oW that a^ybe at the 

sor.ethir.g. but ve are - our spir *3 vlt ^^^^ 

of lovn. ^P^^^^^* ^«»t. up. down, up. and nov they're sort 

Has i^been given on^t^'everL; JloffloLJ^! tT^"-^ ""^"^ P^^^«? 
SPEAKER Yea it -r.r ^ designation - - 

bac., it's on aesx u; lire'' V' ^'"^^ ^<^- 

'SbV ''"^ ' it-^n^e about it's evapora- 

the ^Trth gravity experiment tlTyord1sti\ed r*'^' 
whether the gravitational constant 1!^! ""^^^ ^^^P deciding 

8l'«JcuUted7 constant Is decreasing as aor.c scientltt have 

The ai'sJerlo'This J^^Zh'T''!^ "^""r^ ^^-^'^ rro„ Princeton 
i« not In that order of «^nu«ae 2t TlV.^ri'^ experinents 

sensitivities ctanot be obtained ?rcn IIJ^ ! ff ^^in^^ cf 

Observation, are purely dir.c ed fovard Our 
.r.Vity nel. i...f, but not ^uchntn^^tiS^^i^Lt^^^^^ 

ASTP (USA) PC'«2F/2 , 

Time: 15:00 CDT ' ' ■ 

7/20/75 ... , . -' 


'^^^^ ' ' This question Is for Dr. Ei-Baz. First of all, vou 

said that you vere going to map the occurrences of the red tide. I ' 
was Ju^t wondering what the value of this mapping will be, considering 
It's all of it will be done, you know, in a 10 day time frane and this 
is sort of a dynariic kind of event. 

DR. EL-BAZ We find tnat the red tide is really not such a 
dynai-ac phenoneir^^n . Tne red tide cf both. Florida and New England 
stays around for the suncier. And we know froa the ocean and the ship- 
, ing or fishing fleets that it cones pretty close to shore wherever 
fisherman wo-old go on fishing. You know this red tide is a nicroorga- 
nisra that la poisonous to fish, that it dist'orbs their, and it also 
disturbs tne :-espiratory org«,nisms cf man. And every sunaner. for 
instance m New Englar.d, between July and August, every eye and lu.-g 
in the northeast coast between Washington and Portlarid, Hain» is occu- 
pied because cf that red tide. Ar.d what we are attempting to do is 
obtain visual observations ar.d photografhs, successive photographs taken 
cf pla:es vnere we suspect, there will be larger, rather large red tide 
blo<-.r;s of the ocean area off the coast. Then when we are able nap 
this we have vessels in the ocean r.a.'.ing neasarementa and taking s^-plog 
Ci this who will be able to make this ir.forr.ation ivailaUe to ^he fish- 
eries and the local comissions of public health, as for in^itance we're 
doing in Maine and .Massachusetts and .Vow Ha-npahi re . 

QUERY Also, you said that you were g>ing to look for 

changes in desert zones. I was wondering what you feel you can do 
along this line that isn't possible through LANDSAT insagerv-? 

DF. EL BA2 Okay . The LA.%ToAT laagery can provide" and has been 
providing us with a lot of data from - of the desert regions. And what 
ve can see in the lANDSAT data particularly is the vegetation and Inter- 
action between vegetation and the deserts. But, we do not see in that 
inagery real coxOr so we do not know which part of the desert is yoimg- 
er and which part is older and which way the desert is growing. All righ 
because we can't get indications, most of the desert sands contain a 
little bit of Iron ajid the iron If you keep it long enough exposed to 
the atmosphere it will get oxidized and the oxides are redder so you 
get a redder desert Just by leaving It for a longer tine and v° have 
the visual cocsnents by the crew with the aid of the color wheel and also 
the color sensitive film to be able to delineate these zone*. And 
also the changes in the dune patterns and interactions between dunes 
and topography And that will also give us a feeling of which way Is 
the prevailing winds and which way is the desert growing and this da* a 
we cannot get from LANDSAT. . 

'^^^^ Dr. Bowyer can you tell us what the role is of the 

astronauts in your experiment? In other wordn, can such an experiment 
ever be performed by unmind - unmanned astronomical satellites? 

BOWYER Right. I can answer that in a two part question. 

In this jsasalon the astronauts role is to point the telescope. The 
telescope is about Z feet across in size, a fair - it could f-it on 

. . ASTP (USA) PCl»2F/3 
' Time: ' 15:00 

this desk quite easily. And - 

BOWYER - _ point the telescope, the telescope is about 

2 feet across in size - a fair - it's - it could fit on this desk quite 
easily end it's hardmounted in the spacecraft. And if you recall seeing the 
spacecraft, it's this giant hu«e thing, and so we sort of have - . and 
the vay they point this is they point the whole spacecraft, using the 
inertial guidance system onboard to px-ovide the,. So that the line 
of sight of the telescope is direct. -1 at the objects we want to investi- 
gate. So what ve sort of have is Just a noderate sized telescope with 
the world's largest a-junting. Now, it could be done on a device - a 
search like could be done with an unmanned satellite. The cost for 
such a thing was looked into and it would in terms of a grant to us on 
the order of six million dollars and it would probably cost NASA an- 
other four^ million dollars and you're talking about some r.aybe 10 million 
dollars. ;.ov, the cost for this mission - given that the mission already 
was to occur - the cost for doing it was about a million and a half dollars. 
..^ tnat given t:.e mission already occurring, it's a considerably cheaper 
way of doing it. And given the fact that the skeptics nay be right, nky- 
be there won't be infometion there. Maybe we'll - eventually we'll 
study this wavelength band. There's no doubt in nr/ n^ind. But it's - th- 
T^estion is, la O'Oi- technolc^;,- level at this tine up to the task? And 
It seemed to me like a perfect opport-onity to answer the question, is 
pir technoloc.' able to do it. If we can do it - if now, with current 
tochnolog)-, we're able to cake these measurer-ents , we'll be knocking at 
NASA's door, and SO wi 11 a xvjriher of ether groups saying let's push this 
area. On the ether hand, if it turns out we don't see anything, then N'At^A 
will almost assuredly sa;,-, wait until your technology has evolved before you 
no anyiaore . „, .,. 

QUERY Your Proxr.ire stater.ent about the scientific 

experiaents not being on the ship may have something to do with the 
sar.e thing that ve get a lot of complaints with. Why are ve doing 
tru3 sort cf thing? What does It mean to the vocan in Peoria, Illinois? 
This is the ideal situation where you have all the news peocle here covering 
1* . Other than scientific research, how are you going to get this 
inforrr.ation back to us ao that ve can tell our people what kind of 
data you have gotten, and why it is important to the in Peoria 

^^''^^ ^ co^l^ say a few conBients. As you may have notices 

frcr. the description of the overall experiment prcgra":, it isn't J'ost 
scientific research that ve are iolng. But, also research in connection 
With applications or direct application, /jid here again, we've been 
discussing with you the eleotrcFhoreslS experiments, and the materials 
processing experiments. Dr. El Baz mentioned to you in the Earth 
Observations sone veiy important applications for the water control 
for the population of .Tndia, vhich inforcsation would not othervise be 
available to them. To dissialnate inforaatlon like this, the way it 
has been done In the past, and probably will continue to be done, la 
that ve make the inputs directly to the field. The characterlf.tie 
about the space prograr., as I look back over the years of our 

Tine: 15:00 CDT 
' 7/19/T5 

!t loes not eiaboiy a large number °f that the advantages 

done v'l^"';' „^nkind. other than the c^;, g^y complex 

the .^-L continue to be on this \ery t ^ discussed 

investigation vi^J. ^rotablv then not be so viaexj; 

or technical level, ar.d doctor, vith the Pe"°" f ° 

with the voaar. in Peoria, but the house. So she 

rL-t-res her radio or other appliances 1 
receiveslhe benefit, but she isn-t conciou. .ha. 
Si ace Prc^rar. ^ ^ . -robleci cones bacX to, hov do ve 

CiUEri -f .0 get. The people in sr^U 

--.e ncney that :/o..'re C^^'^^'^ograr.. And we'r- ti-ymg, 
^ are the ones that fight your "Pj^fJ: . that and say, 

communities are , tr/mg '-o iig"- 

L-i;;:.r:;e^-ror^;r?ut- i: •r:er:, --/--;;-;rertre r^Jur 

cf doin, it. '^^--'^rr^rt-ne infonr.ation other 

"lusthcvarevegoingto t..e^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

th.n -^ough scientific Journals! Do any of . . 


.e ha!t tfe vays of f^^^^^^:;r^^.-^r.. In .he Earth 
Journal, or waiting for ^^^^P^^^^.f (^e data i* being '■^''^l'''^^,,^,,^ vith al 
Observation P^°^-^«^-^P^y,^;'^^^^;;,at specif ic scentific group is In t -h 
specific scientific grcxip, and -'^^^ ^^^^^ y^r instance, in lanpn. 
speciii. v,/% would benefit iTom *.iiv^. .i.*, aj-" in tiuch 

;rorfd?"vrc;o you "^on^ frox, J^i^- f tuo .now .nnt 

: 1-:; ircal fisheries. '^^^^J^^^'^ Ihe data that w- viU 
•WAA has a vessel to support 1^^'' ^.^^ that SOAA vessel in 

a ,uire, and ve are f-,^^' ^ata h t^vill be ac<iuired will be 
, ;ie Gulf cf Tanpa and all the date 
given to the local - - 


v ASTP (USA) PC142H/1 > , " 

t Time: 15:00 COT s ' ' ■■ - -* , ■ 

7/19/75 /' ' < - 

■ Vessel in'^the Gul f t f ^ constant touch vith that NOAH 

vn ? L °^ Tanpa. and all the data that vill be acquired 

will oe given to the local people in - T«npa. Florida. And this is ' 
the case vith all the rest of the of the sites that ve have l^.d even ■ 
in fore gn co^a^tries ve have this too. The photography o^ the^eserts 
IVZT fl 'n?'" ^'^'^^ collecting sa4les Ld so onf^d 

the material vill go to then, and they vill help analysyze it ^nHhev ' 
vill knov about it there. This is for - in all tho =<f I ^ 

liXe this doing the vorK ^d viirret^ve'the^ n o'^^ ^.^Ld'^:!!^'""^^ 
dissemnate it locally for vhoever will benefit fron it 

^ , add a few comnents to this. You've 

touched a sensitive nerve. We are constantly at NASA subjected to • 
this question a;.d I'd like to return it. Do you have anv g^ges^on vhat 

be -lUir.g to. tut it a tvo v^ street. I thin:-, ve're honesUv 

■ ^'■^''^''^ infomation. But if ve don't do Ihe Job 
s^;e ve'vUl'do'lo'.'"' ^-^'IVl^t us know I V 

♦he^ ""^L "'^ olBirry one point in that respect 

Jcr''; nubH.r^n'";/''"" 'V'^^ technical press are told scientists 
don I pablish in the press. They wait to publish it in so-.e technical 

^ ^- - V^'^' '^'''^^ ^^'-^ supported Jilh" 
ve .LrS!'.^? \ " spending money to send people doi^ here. Are 

ioir^S fir^t."' ''^ tell you. we're gonna publish it in our technical 
^ 1 don't thin;< this is reallv the case v^n it 

fh:'tlQAT%r^^^M h^^ ^^-^^^ in:tan::'on the - on 

U^ri^^^n-? i'^'f ^ ^'^'^'^ satellite, there are thousands and 

aterall, miliions of pict^ores distributed around the Klobe and I ^hir> 

r'eo°?%Ti?''^*- -^'^-y^oAy can Just send a thing In - a Jeq'^st 

in cost 5 dollars, and you get a picture. Nov in these T>ro^raJ Sere 

a^socTa idi'n'' ^ML'': ^'^'V'^'"^^^ -'-r. r. t^iJSZly 

t^tl tll : ' '^"^ ^^^'■^ i® no reason, to my knovledgo, that ve are 
vxtnhold ng inforaatic:.. If ve do sc. which mayTe the ca^c- v. reSl^ 

^clr^lTl^f^'-u ^t^' '''^ to- suggest to to L^. L 

JM:/-1a;\-:^l1;y ?:'do°:^^ ^^^^^ conference., or whatever you suggest, I 

sMiff^K'" V. y*"^" ^''^ -^"^'^ As far as basic 

scientifi^c research is concerned, there is an old nr^d I think verv - and 
very useral method cf handling publication, and that is to try '7 

Z.l^ll\TTJttlTT.''°'^ publishing H as reliable and 

sound as it can be by subjecting it to reviev, to refereeing. ve call It 

at vhich it '3 b«en looked over and our peers Judged that ve haven^t 
g'-x^f.d up in so«e stupid va:., then there's no reason whatever th"t ve 


Tine: i 15:00 CDT 

shouldn't - I fee] tv.-* 

°^'^TT>1TIZ:/^^T ^^^^^^^^^^^ 

research or r.s„.rch .t.dlesi ' "'"'^1' ""ect to llil t^? 

Before ve „.cl„d. .v., bri.,-!^; '".'"ir. '»>■ 'natural research 

vho are vonderir.c vha' t>,!o Science Denvonst rat ions fhLl ^^^^ 

snca %" ^r"^^ of that effort '° ^ 

"Plications A,r this, rhla . P^SfM and vh.t are 

■ o™":r'?i?°",'.'"" -re^S'^e o„'s,J?:r -'ions -'^cicL'e 

lorm Of fiia- that were dis^r^K/l These vere prerarf>.i -r „ 

gone the trouble "'"'"'^ ^^"^^^^ and quit- a Jen!! ^ 

MR^orial t^^^*^ *«ir.^ these films + < * people have 

there v«re di^^^^r.^t ^""'^^n- There vas abater 5rf i ^^'^^^ ^'^ 

typ« of t^Jing tha"t i -^^^^ demonstrations -f^LS"^ '^^'^ 

8 tnai, vui be done this afternoon. '^^^ 


Houston, Texas 

ASTP Change-of-Shift Debriefing #13 
I-yndon B. Johnson Space Center ^ 
Houston, Texas 
July 19. 1975 

Participants : 

■^^anK Mf?? V"^^' ^'"^ ' ^^^e^^ Director 
^rank Littleton, ASTP Tean 1 Joint rw 

C^ene Marianetti, Public Affii^s crflcef 

PC- 1^3 


Time: 17:32 CDT, 105:12 GET 

Date: 7/19/75 ' . ' " 

SPEAKER _ _ vill you please be seated. Dave. Okav this 

I'raT iTlutL'm'^ participants again today vlIl be Pete " 

^rIJk ^^^eht Director and the Joint Flight Direction, Frank Littleton. 

FRANK Again today, I Just like to make a very brief 

summary or statement about the - the activities of the day. We have 
flown the Plan today Just about exactly as ve expected, sho^d^'t 

l^.oTolllT.y.''" IT"'"^ "^^^ accomplished that ve intended 

to accomplish Not an precisely a nominal manner in every case but all 

far T/IT " l""^' '^^''^^^^^^ completed at least so 

far. Of course tne crew is still working and vill continue to vork 
for some time today. I tho-.ght you it va.. a very interesting day. This - 
tni particular period of flying in close proximity to each oth^r in 

som -hfr'?' f ? "^'^"^ 8^^-^ Pi^^^«« that's 

r- Z;, '^. . ^T'' ^"^^'^''^ '° ^^^"^ beginning of the 

..ight and It - it sure lived up to my expectations. Tnat - those scenes 
Of the Soyui as ve came over Africa and the Mediterranean there 
vere Just really spectacular. The solar eclipse experiment looked to 
!!o ,r lu ^^s^«^^Pli3hed as veil as anybody could expect, 

aaaa-rang all the eq-oipnent worked of course. The piloting task I 
thoug was - had to be done ver:^ veil because ve kept the Soyuz oc- 
culted for approximately 150 r.eters of range and that - that 4 pretty 
nuoh - pretty close to the maxim-am ve expected was possible. The UVA 
experiment, ve had aome problems in Conducting that but I think the 
S^T:/ fof^^'ce was Just Outstanding. That Job was one of the most 
difiicult things that I thin:, has ever been accLplished in a space- 
craft, for the pilot that is and I thought De>e did really a superb 

«k?i?%,^^ f\ i"'^ ^ ^""^^ ^^-^ ^^^^ ^« eot is as good as his 

SKill that he demonstrated in flying that thinf. There vas 8or.e 
interesting interactions between the Moscow and Houston Control Centers 
cn^that - that particular experiment that I'll let Frank elaborate on 
b'^ had to a;5k the Russians to go to an alternate attitude time 
line because of the concern that one of the retro reflector covers vas 
not working - the reflector vas not vorking proFer:y. And that vas 1 shea, i g^^ess that's about it. We - we did a lot today Ve 
uaed more RCS propellant than I think has ever been used in arr/one 
day, about 6uO pounds of it, getting all this vork done. Frank I - 
I vould like you to elaborate some more on this on this interface here 

r^L^^^^""^ ««^^i="'e *'hat alternate profile vorked o-Jt. 

LmLETON Okay. Ve did the first Lta take on the l6o - on 

the m A experiment. Ihe one ve call the 150 meter data take and from 
a piloting standpoint and operations standpoint, it vent very veil We 
^^LISL f '^'^^f^'^"^^'^ e^ing and the data was you kn<^ being 

recorded and the guys in the back roo^, the PI, and his VrieMa took 
J'^M ^""t' there's something that doe.^n't look 

^;'Hdn- I'^^lf^^^' thlrA we've got a problem hero. Looks like 
Ztlt T r ^'^^^^'-'^ W« - looked over the para- 

meters Of the experiment of the data avallnbU .^:-oa downlink from the 


ASTP (USA) PCViB/l ■ V ' ' ; . . 

Tine: 17:37 COT, 105:17 GET 

7/19/75 . • • 

^ ■ LITTLETON ' doesn't look right about this data. We think . ; 

ve've got a problem here; looks like ve didn't get what we expected at 
■all. We Jooked over the parameters of the experiment; the data available 
on downlink lYom the CSM and it looked like a].l the systems were functioning 
correctly. We had data on the lamps and the startracker and several : ^ 
pieces of equipment that - associated with the experiment; it was all ' : , : 
good. So the conclusion was, it was probably something with the retro- 
reflector. And so, after some discussion, a decision was made to ask 
the Soviets to implement a contingency that we'd talked about previously. 
There vas a problem in communicating this decision to their crew, because 
Just of the ground coverage we were handling; but through the use of - 
veil we - ve configured Bermuda for their use and they were able to give 
instructions to their crew through that station. And the discussions 
weut very veil. Fron my standpoint, related to that, the reaction time 
was quite - quite quick and ve were able to get agreement on that, which 
I thought vos Just great and I think the Pi's vere quite happy with the 
experiment data that was obtained on the next data take. All we did - 
'here's a retroreflector mounted on the aft skirt of Soyuz, and they 
assumed a different attitude for this 500 meter data take, which vas 
epsentially the long axis of the vehicle perpendicular to the orbit plane, 
80 that the aft skirt of the vehicle vas facing Apollo. And ve took 
data on that rear retroreflector, ar.i as I said, the last report I had 
from the Pi's is they vere quite happy vith that. Perhaps they elaborated 
o:^ that in the earlier press conference; I didn't hear all of that, but 
it's a very - very good interface vith Mosccv on that si tuat ion . 
SF'KR Questions? 

QUERY I noticed that during the docking that the Soyuz 

Jiggled aro'ond quite a bit vhen you had the initial capture; 1 vas won- 
dering vhv that happened? 

FRANK Okay, the - the initial conditions of the contact 

vere not perfect. There was some offset at contact, and what you saw 
vas the two vehicles moving as they vere brought together by the mechan- 
ism that - these flower petal-locking devices on the docking mechanism 
there are designed to Just do that; once contact is nade approximately 
right, they force the vehicles irao the right attitude for capture, and 
that's what vou saw happening:. 

QUt:RY ' There's no failure on the part of the Scy iz docking 


FRA:JK No. Ko failures at all. 

QUERY Are they out of complete 8i»:'ht of each other ncv, 

and anytime before Soyuz lands v ill they ever see each ether vieually? 

FRANK I'm - I really don't know whether they can - they 

etill have visual contact or not. I would not be Surprised If they did. 
but we'll continue to aeparute and the distance will Just continue to 
increase from this point 6n. 

QUERY le there any chance in - as the orbits of then 

change, that they would be close enough, before Soyuz lands, to see each 
other again? 

' ASTP (USA) PCi43B/2 - > 

' Time: 17:37 CDT, 10^:17 GET - ' . ' 


FRANK No. We'll continue to separate all the way. 

QUERY Did you get an exact time on the final undocking? 

,■ FRANK ■ I don't have it with cie . No, I don't remember what 

it was. We think it was 99:20. •■ 

LITTLETON It was - it was right on what the flight plan said, 

and I'll look end see if you'd like. It was right where it should have 

^ ^^^"'fRANK Oh, wait a inir.>ite; the undocking. Tl^.at was 99:06:15 
ThiRt's right. 

SPKR Right in there. 

LITTLETON 15 reconds later that the noninal plan. 

QUERY Yeaii, I was looking at some of the figures, you kuo-rf 

fron the orbit Mneuvers, ar.d it looks like you only slowed the space- 
cr^ift down hy about 1*0 miles an hour or so for entry. I was wondering 
why - - 



Time: n:k2Cm, 105:22 GET 


FFtAWX . . - - later than the normal plmie. 

QUSR'^ Yeah. I was lookln^f et some of the figures, 

you knov, for deorbit maneuvers and it looks like you only slowed the 
spacecraft down by about hO miles an hour or so for ent y. I wa-s 
wondering, why don't you use that big engine to slow it down more to 
reduce the heat as it reenters the atmosphere? 

FRAKK : Well, the deorbit naneuver is - there's a lot 

of tolerance on hcfw much delta-V you can use for a deorbit. There's 
a trade-off between a maxirum acceleration or deceleration of the load 
factor that you get, and if you slow down too much in orbit, you b^jlld 
up the load factor at reentry tremendously and it's - it's Just a 
trade-off or a combination there of the neating and what's best 
for hetting is worse than for the deceleration loads. 

QUERY What did the alternate fJoyuz maneuver involve, 

coEipared to what it would have done nominal by , if ycu hadn't asked 
Moscow to have them change the plan? 

FRAr«K I'm sorry, Craig say 1^.-1 didn't understand. 

QUERY What did the alternate Soyuz T.anouver involve, 

compared to what it would have involved if you hadn't aisked NkDSCcw 
to titer their pla.ns? 

FRANrI Oka;.-. Actually, the maneuvering requi ronent 3 were 

less for this alternate case than they wc^ld have been fDr the nominal. 
The Soyuz ended up in exactly the right attitude, after the first 
data take;. They - In order to visually track Apollo as it cane 
in - back in close to Soyuz. After that data tak.e they had yaw^d 
their vehicle around and were locking at Apollo out the side wia'iow. 
So that when we got back in plane they were in thld 90 degree yav 
attitude. And so to go to the alternate j - Aa» they simply had to delete 
their planned maneuvers following that. Kov *f and that was essentially 
the nain task was to com.'sunicato that fact to them, that we did not 
want thea to follow the r.oninal plai'<. But to Ju-st stay, right wijere they 
were . 

QUSRV ' {Garble} 

FRANK They would have yawed back 9'^ de^rrees - They woMld have 

160 degrees and then visually tracked Ap<*llo ar>utfid as it want through 
the 5O0-.«ne,i*r data take. 

tiUXStV Milt heim related sone information to ne. I wonder 

tf ycu could confirt, which is that, at tine of Sk>yui deorbit, tJ.e 
two craft will be eibout 200 nautica^ »ile3 apart. And as such, Apollo 
crew can fellow Soyua through their sex'ifi*. , should they chot'S to do 
$0 righi t*^ to the lime Soyuz drops dew . Can ynu confirm that? 

VRANK I think that's right And w.iftther they can see 

thete or not, will de|.eni on the lipfitli.g. t don't know whether that's 
goot or not. Do you? 

LITTLETON I 'a really net sure about that. 

,v;t.ISftY You spoke earlier about Deite Slayton's skill during this 

UV ex], rinent. Could you elaborate on that a little bill Do you Been 
his - tne way he was controlling the attitude of the spacecraft? And 
vhnt did that require on his part? 

ASTP USA PC J*3C/2 ' ' - ■ ' - 

Time: 17:1*2 CDT, 105:22 GET ' ~ " 


the attitude and also t^e C^slIuln'oV' ' ^" controlling 

perform in conblnatlon with at "T'T" ^'^'i to ^ 

-hat particular experiment Is e^i;re^?v s". f.J^'' ""'^^^^^'^ 
the Soy.z. trying to control thfJini^.T*^^^' ' ^^^^"8 aro-ond 

has to control the attitude to 1 *° ^^'^ ^lo^e tolerance h« 

something that's - that 's L ^ <=lose tolerances . And 1^^? 

not . iu to be rio:rL\h^ ^S^e^ 's^^f ^^--'-^^ - 

computer programs that had to br^.H J ^ ~ ^^Quired special 
help him do this, rt required to 'J its onboard compute to 
t.mes to make the - get'the 'ax mu^ u?mf .^'^"^ nLrous 
hat tne spacecran had. He's^Jf^n J? f^°" capabilities 
^-pulses in there that vere lus' ? " in at itude 

maneuvering. And I'm 4»v 7 •-^^^■•^^^1^7 aiiliseconds lon^ ^=4- 

e:'-t of tape 

■»STP (USA) I-CII3D/1 

C. ^ put off -n ,^ 

FRA.MC V it's the NOO:, 

it's 5 degrees? "^"''^ ^^^enslon right th-re' v^. ^ 

^^.tJ. ''^'^^ ^^r/ ^J'^r ^^ove. .ercs 

mn-r'' separation he could st^^^ ^.^'^suxx^^'^^ 
FRANK ^^^^^«^^« Of attUMe an- ^ '-'^^ "'^^ ^^g^-t. 

q'S '^^^^ ^^'^ ^^^^^^ 

to exactly ^ OOO^Zr"^'''^^ distance itself p 

FRA;;>: " ''^f^'^V^ °f Exactly 500 aeSs or 7 '''''^^^ 
^ co-oliT-t . ' there's a luti^ ♦ .flJ^r «^*^^tly 150 . . 

Lim^'ov T"' '''^^ ' ^ ---H - 

the iiatance "is that thing's the-s criti , 

careful to sta^ Ltt " f'^^'^S '^^^ <^omplel llll"f^ '^■^"t ^^-e - 
««t a built up t'kt'n"^*'^"'' '■'O^aina: irr*L f 

on tho first lec L ^ " ^^'^^ ^-^nov if you'?L?*V'""'^«^ you^il 

pretty care/^u% ^^-•-'^ 1^8- Sc^t - u'^tT^v' /^'-^'re 

QL'ERy p^^'^ through'. to maintained 

«^^"-er this splash dovn of t,^'''' - '^"'^ ^«PPen to the Mr, 

FRAJ/.f °^ "^^^^-^^ on Mcndny? aL *w - '''''' control room 

contributions tT^^e ^TTf" '"^^'^ ^^^^ viU 'T' ^''^ ^^ov 
rPAm: ^ ^f^^^^^*^" nailing? *^*''e any further 


ASrp (USA) Pa3D/2 


^J'^W "° cosmonauts were In control 

^-^d - . really haven't no* ice tr ^""^ several aore days t! ^ 

... 0. ... ' - - - - - ■ 

Tl«e:^^17:52 CDT. 105:32 GET 

■ FRuJfK ■ ■ We've still 

nission as far as we're conoernef "'^r «° ^^^^^^^ ^^P the 

uscu.3ion With ^ counterpart abo^t ' '"^^ * ^^^"^ « 
it's a custom here to hav^ a sb^^Ih ^P^'^''^^^^" parties, you knov 
about Moscow because thei; space.^'^^" ^^'^^^ wouldn't decide 

^hat tice? We don - t'jave^'s^uz'^rf'^J --tant is 

given or^. We have been given a time ^^^n 
In your estimate, how fixfd L th«t f/^ deorbit, and the landing 

Mnutes, and not v^^Sl^^ ^""^l ^^^-^ to within a r^^er 

-eh on nominal ^r.^.c^^T^^^ ^:^::et^^-^ ^^^'^ P-"v 
■ -..^j^., - ^.e, a couple of ainutes 

-'"^'f-rth g:.-rJ\b'iLd°:h'; Lno^^^ °r'^-^°- that if 

sc=e situation gii^bal ia^v / ^^^^^^^-^'^ ^^ve the trouble 
•ourth that would prSent « k wondering what is it about 

' -^---j^^^vhy that Jo2ir.,;j.':'''' ^-^ -"sS:^' 
3::^-f^i'\,, 3Keuh^^:t":::,«i;^ rs^o^^^^^"- ^--^'^ 

- it's not that easv to explain u , . 1^. ifs not 

rreedo.^._^j„ the way you sus^'n'^t he 'gyros' ^-^^^^-^^^ '^^^^^ of 

^ 3.1^:'? ' ^''^ '° later about that? 

' Any other questions? TharJ; ycu. 


Ho'iston, Texas 

ASTP Change-of-Shift Briefing #17 
LinAon B. Johnson Sp^ce Center 
Hov:ston, Texaa 
July 21, 1975 


F.anX Littleton. ASTF Tea. 1 Joint Flight Director 

Bob Crippen, Cap con n'-irer 
Dave Garrett, Public Affair. Cicer 




TUe : 17:03 CDT, 153:1*1 G^l 

Apcalo control. f^XudUra"''""-^" 

"r--..dUtely vUh flight ^'„,u .„d .t^tesida during 

„,M1 "'-■^^'"'"Vrunrr O-Jd el.paed ti« 153 four. «>d Ul 
ThP. chanK« of shift Driem-B- 

' nutes. l-hi. is Apollo Coatrol._ ^ be ^in this afternocn'o change of 

PAO ^ !!St fliKht director FranX 

.nift briefing. We ^^^^".^^^..^caJ Crippen. FrarV.7 

lit.leton and to his right f,f ^^""^^J^er good day tode;/ . The d.y vas 
Lirrurw:; okay. people continue to be de- 

..nerallv consuir.ed with experiment, and our p P ^^^e the X-rv 

r;^"!d v-ith the - the data ^^f'^^^ . . n^ed. Loc'.a to us li'^e 

.:::::riLnt proble. and ^ f;^ ';^^^s:l.V.or^ ar.d ve hai sc^e 
i^ 'j a high voltage leaV. tnat s^"^^^^ \ raising the tenperature. 
iopi *..t »cM ^irUV-^t.^ »i?Jt. V.^e 

III -ardies. Of -^"-"-T; l^. 

^nues to - to be a problen. J^; the high voltage peer 
o -rv ''-r.d finl out hov long ^ ^V "^!;^^"^; and - and start the prob- ^- taxes for this ne^.vrh ^^.^^^f .t'^g^ ve' re going to have the 
le! so on an upcoming V It aprroximtely 2 ^inute 

;;ew cycle a hi^h voltage switch W ^1 0F> _ ^ ^ u=e data or 

•:.t.rval3 ana we're going to -^^f^'"^ It Ions il tai.ea after the nigh 
;--at! And ve hope get ',or^.he lea>.age to start 

vo-tagr- power is applied to ^^^^^P^f' tfiXes some reasonable 

In' what we're trying to do wxth t^at is i. i ^^^^ experi^r^nt 

In^un'^f tine liXe 2 minutes or ^f^^^'^ Mgn voltage power and - 
3'ted at a ^arget and then have f J/^^^/^!^,;, data. - If - if this 

possibly get some - .one ^^^o^ exhausted c^ir ideas 

particular procedure doesn t ^^^^^^od- 'a going to^con^elup with sonethint.. 
Sthough I .till Xoep f P-/Jtnuing - veil we did try the evaporator 
Other - uther than that - continuing .^ji is not ri probler.. The 

»^-.V»ipraer.t at all. ao'^^ 


e/ercise. ^ recorder on that do that ex- 

'■ecordint: c%c- ^n- -^^ , medical gear \.<j ^-i 

r/t rear fond of having to put on alx the m ^^.^^ . 

ercife in the first place, but he ^cl^ ^;^^^°?,Jon to Di« Tru.ey 
'en I told hin. I was thLrJ^.ing about P^^^^f^^, it todaj'. 

■ ^d let hin .eil ' Ttl 'w- a verj siK>oth running day, ver,' , 

Other than that, I - I tncv^ht iv was a ry ^^.^^^^ ^^^^3,^ ^ 

si?.!-ar to yesterd..y and ^^^/^-'^^^.^^^es it's all straightforward 
Necessarily have to be exc.Urg. ,,o. our standpoint , 

and it's clicking aloi.e. ^ - 

ASTP (UoA) rC!i7-A/2 

Tine; 17:03 CDT, 153: '*1 GET 


in the control room, that's the way we like to see it. ; 

LITTLETON We - several of us came in early this morning and 

watched Soyuz come in. We're very happy - all of ua - that their mis- 
sion concluded successfully. We congratulated their control center and 
we've tui-ned down about half of the lines that connected to control center. 
Actually there are '* voice lines and one telex line that's still up. 
But ve had about' 12 voice lines and 3 telexes so I guess ir.aybe two- 
thirds of thfit coriznunicfttion capability has been turned down n^cw. But 
v.- 're going to 'icoep those remaining lines up Just for whatever purpose, 
to excha.':,.-e data if necessary an i so forth. We do have status reports 
th«i< are cfiled for occasionally and that'll be kept up until Scy - un- 
til Apollo splashes down and then they'll down for the — 


ASTP (USA) PCl;7B/l 

Tir.e.- 17:08 CDT, 153:1*6 GET 


LITTLEIX)N - vhateve.- purpose v to exchange data . If necesoHry, 
and so forth. We do have statu'^ reports that are called for, occasionally. 
And that'll be kept up until Soy >■ until Apollo splashes dovn. And . 
thfn they'll po dovm for the last time. 

PAO Okay. I guesa ve'll open up for questions nov. 

.'iick Chris. 

C;UERy Did you find it at all unu?ual that Soyu?., right 

after the radio blackout, asked for the altitude, and Mosccv .Mission 
Ccntrol sail, I dcr.'t know? . .. 

LI?:i^ro:; :io. in fact, I didn't hear that. I vas vatching 

the television. And it said that this is the first Soyuz descent like 
that ve've seen. I can tell ycu vhat siirprised ne absut it . I fuess 
it car.e i^vn very slovly on the parachute and stayed a long tirsi;. I 
thi-.k sor.e of you jcntl'-ner. nier-tione^ yester-Jay, gee, looking at this 
retrj fire tir.c, ve dcn't understani hov long -i hov come it takes so 
lor:5 for it to .'et to the grc;:id. And it Just seeded like • you know, 
coBipared to what we've seen en Apolio, that it spent a long tize on the 
jaiachutes tjday. And ve kind of gasped vien ve first saw it, because 
it looked like it had a high lateral velocity - you know, with respect 
to the ground. But tha reason for that is "because it, was being jihoto-- 
graphed by a helicopter flying in a circle around it. And the line of 
si^-hl va3 - you know - rotating, as the helicopter flev ai-cund it. And 
It gave the inpressicn of a latorai velocity. E^at - T thought it was 
a very smooth descent. It looked gooi to us. Caae dow - set down 
fairi/ gently, I think. : 

PAC (Garble.) 

QUERY Crip, there vas an exchange betveen yoj and Tort - 

something about scr.e strips. Ar.d he said if he had a penny for every 
one, he cculd have a hell of a tarty, '-^hat vas - what vas that at-out? 

CRIPPK! : Oh, that - Tom has been all day doing these - 
orienting the vehicle for - to point the experiments in the - tha* 
located back in the SIM bay area - at various areas of the celestial 
sphere. And it's Just continuou? punching on the DSKY - you know, 
his the vay he addresses the keyboard - he addresses the computer 
vith. Aud vhat he vas saying vas that if }je had had a penny for each 
tine he'd had to punch it, that ve could have a good party. That vt\3 vh^it 
:t vas about.'; 

PAO' , ' Lyiiri Dotta. (t). 

■ Q^:i^'{ , I'n scrry if this nakes you go over territory 

you've covered before, but - very briefly, could you explain vhat ■ 
precisely is the proble.T vith that x-ray experiment. And have you 
recnivei any data from it today, at all" 

LITTLETO:* :, Well, I .don't think ve've gotten any good experiment 
data at all. We're getting data, but the data shovs a voltage leak 
which Just vipes it out. You kncv - ve look at the iata on a strip'}' 
chart. And vhen • at the higher voltages, when ve get the leak, it's ■ 

toTf (USA) PCI.7B/S 

- it's lust „ 
^ to bottofo' vertical t>, 

■■."/.ot ^ood science ''^--'^ inJicates a f ""^^^^^ contain 

^^^y -v," '''' ^^-'o seen 

•"'^vir;g vhat th..,. ,v '^^""^ soae coll' f " 

-" a"? :r that -amS'T '.f .v«. b.., th. 

• Wel^ , ve've had ' 
^•'•^^ TAPE ' '^'^^ ^-^^^e a,u I ,.,,,3 ^ _ 

ASTP (USA) PCl*7C/l 

Time: 17:13 CDT, 153:51 G£T 

Date: 7/21/75 

' ■' QUERY " 

varn-Ing alarn>. I .as^lnlTrllTr °' Precaution and 

PAO Crip ^""^ ^^'■'^■■^8^ 

CRlPP£j; T^. 1," , , 

ve have a lot of parar.ete;s In our fvs"^'?Lrf ^'^=f ' - 
varning system. And vhen one of th! ! 1 ^ ''"^^^^ * caution 
threshold value of the SrSeter i^ .^^'T^"" ' ^one 

alara. And of course! s^e i' ol fr"^^'*"' ^ ^=ter 

spacecraft. The particSar on ^^i^/ve^rT;^^'"^''^^ - 
It's not a problen. Ifs lust q sttnrf, T^''^ ^^2 ^Ij^h. and 

the threshold linxt and ve'veVen l^r' T^"" ^^'^ '^^^'^ t° 

vaste vent open and ve have a f?ov o"t^cr\l''' T''^' ^^'^^^ 
jnput 0 are Just very close to"?he thresho?? regulators 
have an accunulator cycle, and it'll vLf!:'- /''^ occr.sionally ve'il 
'-hat happens, ve on the ^^^^tt^ alarm off . And everytine 
vmce ourselves vhat happened "^^^ ^'^^'^ ^"'^ ^on 

LITTLETOIf This - th' ^ 

knowing ve're ro^na to hfiv« ^"^ ^ situation ve launched vith 

I dor.'fTer :-ecall one like tMs" sit^nUon unusual? Because 

plan right nov, you'll see sev^rll"? . ^^^'^ '^^^^ '^^^'^'^ 

''^^'^ i^-e'thrc^Mrpirg^d'""'" ^'^'•^ ^^^^^ - 

Purged't^oS because'i^-rdur^o"'o:: oj''L"'"''"' 
ve're carrying onboard has a cr-o^enic n^t ^^P^^iinents 
carry so=e experir.ent sanples 'n ' f^Tf' ''''''''^ 
nitrogen vhich coi.»s out fn^o t'^^ „^ ^^reezer outgases 

quently, because it 's the^f n ^5^''' ^^"^ 
of 02. And to keep our PPo: ZT.'^ Covering the partial 


cut soae cf the nilrcg^n t^^oul; ^V^Z'^ periodically Just purge 
there and scheduled. ^ ^^"^''^ ^-•^ the purge 

to yourqueations later^o' ^ack 
QUERY v^iat i.^ v^,, 

lover, but the voltages rha^ are'l^nuf '^P^'"^^^"^ ^^ry, very lev 
slr^ply think that soL of th/electr-a'"' ''''^^'^'^y And ve 

conductors and getting on the d^.^llZ^T'T ^''^^"'^ ^""^^^ ^he 
3" x-ray input. in orher vords ♦•rrv- v ^^-^'''''^S '^P if it vere 
oxperi:.ent data to *he detect o;',:',:'r f^'"'''' ^^^^^"8 liXe r^ssive 
so ve can't see vhat's haro^rir/ completely overpovers it 

QUERY ' - y'' ' ' .' 

^-v do they reel abourt^rd^ta'itv're" ' ^ov . . 

anything yet that they're V^rtic.^:^ ^i:^^^''^ ^^-^ 

ASTP (USA) KkjC/2 

Tiae: 17:13 CDT, 153:51 get 

Date: . 7 21/75 


data, but I don't reauT^p^e'^l^..^^--^^ a:^ reports of any a.clting 
^11 give a science briefing. i ToJt v \ ^ Giufi 

Should impression thf he Toll ^^'r/'^" '^"^ scheduled, bu 

Should properly ask him that quest 'or ^ ^'''^ ^ you 

ansver it. B-.t . ve continue Tollt r'j' ^^'^^ prepared to 

he.lun K^ov and ZUV. They're reff'^ Z^""^' ^^ta on 

'Sj^r Thea^r '''''' 

' ^^-^-"^ yo-r con,ra-^ations to 

LIl^LETON Say again. 

Moscow - to Mission cJn^r,' ^our congratulations to 

SFEAsXR ve'i T ' J 

v-uld in a .i.nar sit.It ic.^" v^^i^/i^ i^' as anybody 

see. to be be.onlng a'bj: ^^^l ^'l:"^ references to the fish. They 

I ■■ I = not . r haven't seen aulhl ^'I'/^l^t ^ ^-^^^ on thenf 
^here are, and so on. adscript, h:v -anv surviv-r^ 

^ --/se^:^L"s^t.$^^^;:"^:^^/f^---- a Joke 
--'viat, and ve're trv'-- -nj, ve started c-jt in 

terd.y, vhen I asked Deke '^b^'u^'lf ^^'^^ ^^^"^ '^r. here. Yes- 
that contained live ^ish tw r : ^^P^^ted that - of th» vJvL 
i^ive fish in - ■ I t-lieve there were foar ^rthen St 

^EJiD O? TAPS ■,' 


1 It 1 J 

contain live fjsh th«" that the - 

eggs that ve 2a„. once 1^ « ^^f? " sooevhat " '^^^^ference 

lea.s. t:.a^.: J?^ hadn't had a ^^^^^ thx^l'f,?^ ^^^^'^ nov - 

PAO ^ ^^^-"t Of ',oiS!f do that Tha, ! .T'^"^ 
Ql/ZRy fill Gregor. '^'^'^^^ ^ abo.t u!en . f " 

.^usual vf.^\' ^^^^ '^on^i ^Mng? "'f-^'f caution aJ. ~ ^ 

-'^everal years old " '^^^ ^^^^v. veV. ^ ^^-^i^ent 

"3ing it for ASr-' <ie3igned ;o/! ^ spacecraft th . 

^^-•^ t^l^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^-S^ J/- there -3 

CRippK, , / periodic caution and va,;f ^°^^^«--<^e 


Time: 01^:00 CST 


/odrevet: Hoscou ) ' conference heTd'frcn 

Director, the Soviet side- ami Pn^>-«^„ w l^-^^^^^es, Solar Eclip&e fbcperinent 
Ins-lfj-e ^hP ^ V '^'"^-^'^^ -'laikov, nenber from the MetallurRv 

in„..vj.e, the .+ilti jrpose Furnace Director of the Soviet ^'-i 
give yo-. sone data cf the fii<7rt All ^nprlf* ^^^^u side. I'U 
vere be^^^n on the 67tn orbit CosmonL^'; H 5 .^ uiid^ckir.g 
e-*er«>d *he v - ^ l-osraonauus did the orientation maneuve- 

»3 .nd 0, v„i r.;f,ie^l f^rSp^rs ;a°.'r^;''.:'" """^"^ '■^"^1') 

2 i^pper strstas of the atraosphore, Thp fir-t 

vas conductei at 150 using the reflector in the Th<> , 

~ij ..le oojTu?. perforeed a rotation on course Th* pxt^p»-,v«^» , 

/lisht engineer Ku.a.ov c^t^d c^! P o iro^thr"-^' 
Apolli, and photographed the effect of light around Ihe aLiL a?^^ 
hour. 36 minutes, th. final sepHration of the spacecraf^Ai^Uo-^-.! . 

biological experiments on the ZoTe-Zr,.iZ'^^^^^^^ ''onducted 
Organisms. After supper and evenin/toilf / fhl ^ '^'^"^^ ^f !Uoro- 

0 /-•-i^/.v r-v-- , evening toilet, the cosoonauta rested unMi 

that ve drew m- tn^^^he^ vlth lZ^f \7^^^^'' ^""^ prefiight program 
■^-en event ^li/t . ^ Anerican side to take care of any un-o^c- 

^ en e%ent. T^iis program is onboard each of the ships and I can sav v^^ 
VI th " i hn verv hancv ^ ^ ««v ...» .. ^ " very - 

the prc^-.a« yesterday vas fulfilled conpletely Id vjry veil irall« 
brieve that ve achieved our deairod ^oLls l^f . r ^® 

yesterday-, program. Aft.r the erev So e'. aft -r th^J^ JJt' r^'t ^J?"' 


Time: ■ 0U:O0 CST • 


out - the pressurization of the cabin. Then, Lecnov and Kubaaov put on ; 
their space suits and started preparing for tlie first undocking maneuver. 
The undocking maneuver had to be carried out exactly on schedule because 
because at the tirt - photography of the art Ifici&l solar eclipse depended 
on this to a great extent. Both crevs adherea strictly td'fichedule. And ■ • 
after the first undocking, they startecj photographing the artificial solar 
eclipse. Ap«:;ll6 cast a shadow on Soyuz and blocised off the Suji. After 
that, engineer Kubasov ptarted carrying out the photography vork. . Please 
note that this is - vas a unique experiment, which cannot be doubled do'<m 
on Earth; it can be done only out in space. And so far, Kubasov and 
beonov are the only humar.s on Earth vho thenselves witnessed a full sol'ir 
eclipse in space. The solar eclipse lasted about 3 ninuteB, then the 
Soyijz ship started naneuverir.g ag&in to prepai'e for the second docking 
naneuver. After the axes w«re alignel, Leonov and Kubasov made their 
docking ne ch an iss active . A^**. at 15 hours ih minutes 10 seconds there 
vas contact. Then the ScjJtuz ship ensured the capture and rigid latching 
and pressurizatlojV. I have to note here that the second docking maneuver 
did not gy as smoothly as the first. During contact, which is carried cut 
by Slaytor:, U^.e degree of pitch vas quite noticeable after contact. I 
think the designer Serooyatnikov will give you sone more detail on that. 
After rigi'i contact and pressurization, Leonov and Kubasov chocked pres- 
surization Integrity on the »cyui and the Integrity of the contact itself, 
the docking, and everything vas abs.-slutely nornAl. After that, they were 
preparing for the second 'Uidocking maneuver and the Ultra-Violet Experiment, 
firing the second undocking maneuver, which was. also carried out by the 
docking t.fpardtup of '.he Soyuz, as ve sat dow at the Control Center, the 
docking - the So:rjz docking aechanisrn worked like a clock. We could st© 
the separation of the two ships without any loss of orientation. Every- 
thing was very smooth. After the second undockinf , they steu-ted their 
liltra-Violet F.^j'^rlnent . The So^niz chip started its orbital riiantnivers 
/or - all right, th« Soyua ship started preparing its orientation for for- 
ward ffloveaent and the Apollo started circling Soyuz . Houston reported that 
the info.-nat Ion they received vnft not exactly what they would like to have 
received, and requested that the second experiment be carried out on th6 
angle reflector at X angles. Hegret fully the two ships then entered a 
zcne where w*? had no contacts with either the Apollo or the Soyur. There 
was very little tine to take the nec^:B8aj'y decision. Nevertheless, through 
the Iv.>rnudu tracking ftntion and the Tfuri Gagarin tracking ship, w-; conveyed 
the necessary instructions to the Soviet crew, what to do In this situation, 
and the second exjterlaient was carried out as 8Ugg«ated by Houston. After 
these fcxperinentK , we were called by Pete F'lanX from Houston who reported 
thrit the scientists were hopping around happy as could be because they 
received excellent result r?. After ♦hit, we doubly did the experlmenta once 
agoln froifl a distance of 1000 tsettfrs, according to the angle reflector on 

Tine: Ol*:00 CST 

7/20/75 ' 

the module ship. And, at about 103 hours orbital tine, the Joint vork . 
betveen Apollo and 6o;ri2 ended, lhat vas at about 22 hours 20 minutes 
Moscov time. Nov the ships are on different orbits. ; Th.e distance between 
then is anywhere : iTon 200 to 250 kilometers', depending upon the exact place 
o', orbit. After the end Of > of joint work, when they started autonomous 
work I^r.nov aiid Kubasov c&x.*ied out two nore experiuents: vievmg and 
phot ographius light effects around the ship, recognizing the heavenly 
bodies on the daylight part of the orbit. Then they went to bed after_ 
having their supper. Today Is teostly preparation for the descent. This 
is a very serious operation in the flight and, therefore, requires very 
se-iOus preparation on the ground and in the air . They rr^st check out 
the ship"* 3 stabilization, orientation, and engine systeas . There ere a 
few scientific and technical experinentS remaining, and packing the 
necessary equipment for the return to Earth. : The shift at the Ccntrol 
Center is headed by Vadin Kravets today, whom today - it's his birthday 

today, is years old.) \ " , ^ ' ,. 

Kio (Nov a few words by the icisigner Sergei GeronyatniKov - 

yjadinir SeroayatniKov . ) v. 

SERQ!5YArrfIK0V ( I an particularly pleased to be here today because , 
as Sergei Tsibin said, cir docking syeteo functioned excellently. It 
functioned even tetter than when 1 demonstrated it for jfou here at the 
entran-^e to the hall. I can truly say that it functioned better because 
the conditions wre net too favorable in the second dockinp. You under- 
«!tarid me, I mean space, not in the hall here. Professor Lunney , in 
speaking to Professor Bushuyev here :r. the Soviet Union, said that he 
vauld like to congrat^alate the entire Soviet tear, particularly the tea-r. 
that designed the docking systea becAuse it functioned excellently in 
unfavorable conditions. Ve are not yet faaililir, in detail, with^all 
the conditions of precisely vhy the conditions were unfavorable, but 
there are certain things that I can tell you. You all noticed on your 
TV screens where after the contact «nd capture, there vas & great deal of 
pitch between the ships. We knoV that the Soy^iz systeo after capture is 
turned off, while the n^nuol op^vation of the Apollo ship va« nu-h - fthculd 
have been turned into - should havt- been turned onto a different ncde. 
At that nojaent the ehip was operated by Donald Slayton ftnd^he Bar.-uvered 
♦he Shi? excellently and in - At the contact period our information w th - 
is verv good oh the grounc . However, after contftct and capture there 
A grea't deal of pitch on both shlpf. I can say that the Soyuz enlr sUr nd 
turning on its axis at a speed of approximately 1 degrees^a second. That fi 
whac we show on the screen. And the chOck absorbers on th6 Sci^t wer<, very 
strained in order to absorb this strain. Vh*n 1 dcnonstrated the nodels 
m the hall, I shoved you approxirsat ely hov this Is done. You reneraber 
'hat the peripheral ring has a great deal of anffal&r pitch and t.ils pr - 
process itself - ve did a great deal cf work vith this on the gfoind prior 
»o the launching. We did this vhile testing in Moscow and Ir. Houston alio. 


Time: OU :00 CST 


Ar.d at tL^es ve vere told "vhy do you strain your device to such a ^reat 
extent? Because r.t the training facilities when the ccsnonauts carried - 
out this maneuver on the ships on the ground, the conditions were nore 
favorable. But cn this flight, ve - ve proved that there vas good reason 
.or our perseverance. Ve always try to test cut constructions In extrere 
conditions, ;and that's exactly what happened during the second docVina 
r'.aneuver. We used up alnost f-ally all the leeway allowable in the docking 
nechani.^.. nevertheless, it took up the shock and was successful, all thf 
pitch was quelled after about lo seconds, ar.d approxinatel v 20 seconds o^- 
20 seconds efter the docking the rigid hatching took place. Here also, 
there vas an '^.'^xpected, unforeseen event. Apprcxinat ely when ther- vas 
abau- 30 or raiUImeterB between the docking protrusions, there vas u 
very s.rong pitch from the Apc-llo ship and the rigid protrusions on the 
forifher..' r.ycten, which prevent the rings from turning to any great de,-^ee 
-ney axso withstood the test this time. Because cf thir, the'g-jide vro- ' 
trusions entered their corresponding rings normally, pins - pins ani 
soc;^etE aiid the docking aaneuver vas successfal . The pressure was excllen 
reported the crew, and, arter two docked orbits, the undccking naneuv..r\'as 
also very succeasral. We also have special instructions for a-.foreseen 
events and tni6 foresees such a possibility. Just as ny colleague said 
ve al-io dxd not use this special instruction - these special instruction-^ 

.hereforf, tne special- peri ptieral and andrcgynous docking systems 
designed especially for this flight, I think now we can conclude 'hT i* 
c-on be used m further docking maneuver e. Thank you.) ' ~ ^ 

™„ (Garble) questions new? (English) 

S^'^ big group of specialists here today ...) 
c... rf ^ ((Garble,. Could you tell us precisely why the unfore- 
seen - tnis unfcroseen novenent , the pitch, took place?) 
inf^^r^Mon t>,«* ^Specialists on both 6idea right now are analysing the 
nl.,naation that they have. We kncv that at one nr^rr.ent on the A->ono 
there vas a roldlng cf the g;.ro9copic syster . We alno knov that'n' the 
rtonent of locKihg and latching the Apollo and Soyuz wore rolling at app^-nxl- 
ns&texy x aegree a second. This should not have taken placr. 


ASTP Chang-or-Shift Briefing *l8 
Lyndon B. Johnscn Soace Center 
July 22, 1975 


Donald Puddy. AS'IT Teari 3 Flight Director 
J. J. Convell, r:xperinent3 Officer 
Charles Redjrcr.d, Putlic Affaire Officer 

... ASTP (USA) PCI48A/I ' ' '■' 

7/22/75°^'-^^ CDT. 169:16 GCT ' ' . ; 

little bit this corning^'' j^'ou; attest'"? J'^" J^^t a 

on some of these experiments. Tbro,S T T*"i*'"° possible 
'^d voold like for him to t to vol -ith me toda^. 

electrophoresis experiment that Je'^exeiiLn "^""'^ ^^e 

^CO^^^L.^^^'-"-or^^^ -ur^La"^\^ tX!"^^" 
.is first Of all. Of"::' ^'^'^ ^^^^ electrophoresis 

'^at you do is you have seveJIl cells '^^^^'^^ "''^ s^Lr' 
a buffer solution and pass a volt:^^ together and you put tl^n in 

nove down a colu.^../ ,1^^? .^'°" '^^^ causes the ceUa 

i3 a sample column that vl'have onbof "^^^ '''' '^^'^^ Here 
yesterday, and we're rur^L^ Sur 1 .'^ these col"!': 

insert a sa..ple at one end HtMo^, f"' '^ '-^ 

a voltage across the entire coll!., ''^r^ ! '"^S^^^ • Then ve pass 

-o migrate dovn the length of the colt^ ^t causes the different cells 
ends to pvui all the cells to the bo^^ °" g'-'^^'ity 

a sariple en the ground, i.'hat ve '^e t^;^. ^ f ^/^"'^ S^^^ as pure of 
^-ery pure aaaples cf each cell f h^r ^° ^" ^^^6^^ is to get 

pure samples on the groLd'' M^wlrtheT^ S'''^ "^'^ ^^'"^ 
here a:M let the current be applied until^. '5'^ -^^l^^ in 

each - about 3 different bends in th^« -T different bends in 

we ta..e the ends off and v^put^^hf -^ ^ .r^, -^-n - 

it in the cryo freezer and brine it b^.^ Z t^ ^ "^^"^ they ve put 
dissected veiy carefully by the doctn^l . ^1"" " i/ 

have cn that. ^ ^ the doctors doun here. That's about all T 

samples are. The one an^ ^e a I^VS!, ^^ff^- ^ou what the 

h^; : "'■^^^''^'^ '■^^ blood cells and^ ^hat ll LT l"'t'"' ««nplea lu.d 
rl>f/^^^^ - ^"d I think in order thev CO- h ^^^bit and 

rabbU. aa far as hov they vould go in th:'..? ' J"^^ "^"^ ^^^^ the 
lymphocyte., cells and fixed red bl^J"^,-; al.o hare 60^ 
that we're running are actuallv tvo r And the swnrleft 

enumerated. As ffr L oJer^l^t't " ' '''^'^ that I j^T ' 

at 7::.5 over the Vanguard! cour«^* '''' 

V-.guard is noving. If y'u L.r^t ^^J^? r^hr,*''^ ^he 
you doesn't quite correspond vith vherf fhi f ^ ^^''^ ^ime I g^ve 

n-ving towards Sidr.ey. A^traUrat th7s U J""^^' ^"^"^ ' ^^'la 
121 by 115. Our conau-nable staUrremlLi ^'-bH 1* 

As far as Spacecraft problej are i" areas. 

vith the primary eoolant loop ^her^ 1 .J^^*'" M.oelated 

evaporator or the line leadiL fL! tL fre«7.eup in the 

■lump. Ve triei that vesterd^ Ild l J ? *^?r.*^°' Overload 
blockage or nocne other lyZ Z mIw "^'^^ ^^'^^ ^ ^ftve *oo« 
evaporator does dot ! do^fr^t rfx^^Sffr' '''' ^^'^ 

«oing to be able to use it. ^.T^t^T.^l^^^^^^ 

ASTP (USA PC1*8a/2 X/. ? 

Time : 08:36 CDT, I69:l6 GH?r 


vent ahead and attenpted the stftrti-n ' 
. it fe.d, into the VlLMns liZl^LVlLttT^J^^^^^ 
age VQ3. And &a it turned r,iit Tv. t'Hought the ice block- 

on the line nov. and "rkinrproplrL So v'"':. Secondary evaporator 
there. Even if ve hadn't been able ?o .SV^ "^^^^^^ ^'^^^ "° P^oblen: 
the line. aJtho-ogh the tenp^ratSea in evaporator on 

slightly elevated there ^Hn ^^ u ^'^^^^^i" ^^^^ have become 
As ?ar L tody's 'acUvitles Ln. have been no significant problem, 
heliu^n glow P^s anft^Le m 1'°":""^!.'' ^^"^ ^^'^^^ P^^''- one 
at your noninal flight plan ^oS- r.t" .I't ff' ^^^^^ 
vere scheduled this norni.g'veJe Jor th! v ' ''^"^ ^^''^ '^-^^ 

continued to have proble,4^ v^rth^. 1 experir^ent. We have 

power on continuou^lTd?^' ^e.n experiment. Leaving the lev volta^. 
the ex,erl.ont. repJaciif the g^ - ^"^^'^^ 

E?iD'OF TAPE 'V')' -■'v-t:^^^ 

' ASTP (USA) PClt8-B/l . ' ^ ' 

Time: OQ:hl CDT, 169:21 GET 

^ , PUDDY plumbing downstream of vhere we thoucht the ice ■ 

blockage was and as it turned out, that was the case. Secondly evapor- 
ator is on the line now and working properly. So, ve certainly have no 
problems there. Even if we h&dn't been able to get the secondary evap- 
orator on line, although the tenperatures in the cabin night have become 
Slightly elevated, there still would have been no significant problem A 
far as today's activities are concerned, we have 1 X-ray pass, 1 heliuia 
glow pass and 3 EUV pass - 3 EIP/ passes. If you lock at vour nominal 
fxight plan you'll note that the first 3 passes that were' schedij.ed this 
morning were for the X-ray experiment. We have continued to have prob- 
lems with that experiment. 1/ aving the low voltage power on continuously 
didn t seen to correct it. ;icither did piirging out the experiment and 
replacing the - the gas Inside the experiment seen to - to do It W» 
have found, however through a cycling process that we vent through yes- 
terday that it looks like if we cycle the high voltage cower supply of^ 
for a period of time of something like 2 to 3 aiinutes and then turn it 
back on we can ccllect very good data and that is the procedure that w" 
are trying this morning. The other activities that ve have tMay include 
u earth resources passes, the first one ctartlng at 9:15 COT which covers 
tne HumbolQt Current 6ff the coast of Peru, the Peruvian desert and the 
Oronoco River delta that which is near Barbados. At 13:50 certr&l day- 
light tiir«, the tropical stom area off the U. S. coast, fa^ilt lines over 
Guadalajara and we end up locking at the oxtdatiois zones of - north of 
Lake Huron. 15:26 central daj-ligh.t time, we'll cover the Great Salt Lake 
ai-ea and at 16:50 we have - going to take a lock at the upveliings and 
the bcw waves off the coast of Hawaii and end up looking at Mt. Olympus 
and - and the Puget Sound area. We also have today eome continuation of 
the - the DM height measurements, some fish observations and it looks 
like eomo of the eggs are hatching. The crew Just reported a tsinute ago 
that they had 5 new flah. The eleotrophoreais vhlch J.J. Ju.'5t briefed 
you on, some leg volume aeasurenenti-, a continuation of our 
processing sanpiea using the furnace, a continuation of the zone forming 
^^^I•.g3. experiment and also Tom Stafford and Vance Brand will be performing 
the - the light flash experiment . Everything,- locks good as far as can 
teii from the standpoint 6f crew health, spacecraft status, and with the 
exception of - of the problems that I'-^ noted to you In the X-ray ex- 
periment, all the experiments seeia to be coming along as expect-i. That's 

*^ ^^'^ the status report , we can open up for questions 

Are those 5 new fish the first space birth* ever? 
Have things been born dr hatched in space before? 

PUDDY To the best of ny Knowledge, and I'd have to go bark 

and check thin, but the the best of my knowledge, that's) true. There - 
we carried some fish eggs or board Skylab. but I do not thirJ^ that any 
of those hatched.* ' 

QUERY Do you know If the Russians have done anythintr lik^ 

that ? ■ ■ ■ 

^^^'^ ^ could not answer that question, I do not know wheth- 

er th<»y tried this paiticular experiment. 

*Puddy later, off miko, said fish were born on the Skylab alssions. 

ASTP (USA) PCi48-B/2 ■ • 

Time : 08: CDT, 169:21 GET 



AST? (USA) PCUb-C/1 

Time: OSi^je COT, l69:26 Gin- 


QUERY - an amazing oil slick off the coast of Florida. 

And there vas some discussion of the possibility that they vould try 
to eyeball that toda^v. Is tliat in the tiaeiine, or is that fornally 

PUDDY It's not formally planned. We do have sone infor- 

aation available on that location. We plan to pass that on to the 
crew - assuning that we can fit it in vith the timeline. ITiere's still 
a fairly cramped timeline today. 

QUERY Hasn't - is there a tentatl%-e time slot, though, 

cr pass that - I could be vatahir.g for? Or has that been picked yet? 

PUDDY Nc, it has nzz . 

PAO Jacques. 

QUin^Y Not cc^.'ing personal activity, hov many hours 

did your crev vcrk yesterday - and hov cany hours are scheduled for 

Pin)DY Well in essence, ve're vorking, espentially, about 

17 hours a day. Sccie cf that, of course, Is considered presleep activity 
and postsleep activity. But I thirJ'., If you've been able to follov 
the air-to-ground, as soon as they vaXe up ve usually have a couple iter^s, 
and there's always a couple right before they go to bed. So I think, 
on the average, you can say that tetveen 16 and 17 ho-ors per day Is 
vhat we're considering the crev active day. 

PAO On the end, over here. 

QUERY Just briefly, could you go over the thing about the 

height neasurements and, specifically, vhat you vould hope to find 
on a Short nilasion like thiB, ccnpared vith Skylab? 

PUDDY In the fkylab asission, basically, most of t)ie 

Deasurem^r.ts that ve tock vsre quite Itite, as far sub the number cf 
days In flight. And vhat ve're trying - the void ve're trying to fill 
here is socae of the - soise aeasurenients of the sane tvpe, earlv in 
flight. V ' . 

iV.O In the front , Martha. ' 

QUERY If the setup you're trying with the x-ray exjerlment 

vjrks, about hcv nuch of the lost data do you expect you'll recover ? 

PUDDY J.J., you got a percentage on that? 

CCNWHLL We von ' t be able to recover any of the lost data. 

The x-ray experir>^nt vas planned to be r\in on da>'S C, 7, and 8. ThiOre's 
no vny to get those days back. What ve're trying to do is salvage part 
of the tide It has today. This node that it operates in is - you can 
get data for about 2 to 5 ainutes when it's on. And then it goes 
into thia discharge raode. And then you have to turn It off for about 
2 ainutes before you can operate it again. What ve're hoping for today 
is to operate it .In this node for 3 passes and get about 30 percent of 
the data he vaa expecting to g^ t today. But today is only - 3 passes 
is fell he had planned. He - it'll be a very small part of his data. 

PUDDY Up until this particular point in tine, we feel 


Time : 08:l46 CDT, 169:26 GET 


CON WELL "■ • -^"i^-iii. ■ ,.• 

has discovered 2 .-r'syZVo.TfLul^l Tn ^"^^ experinent 

time that it has got to run so far * ^"""^ ^^^"^ of 1 

QUERY ' Q ' ' ' 

hov .any hours you^^I^i^^^e'had'J^'nov'^^Id'^hrSr''"'* ' 
normally? "^^^^ thing oeen functioning 

can do'Tt af^.er the'^rss^'^^fere^fe'^'e'^^J'^J^^^^"^ " 
of data ve expected to get cn the y r!-' « T ^^""^ ^^^s 
into what ve expect to m. I Son't vLrT ^'"^'^^l^^^- -hat 

here. We have had rrobLn^ vith thi rn^tV!lnr"'' '^^-^^^^^ Picture. 
con:pletely pure data. At tv,. sari %lT ' far as - a3 gettir^g 

been getting is certainly not tf^ f' '"^'! °^ '^"^^ ^^'^^ have 

PAO On ^he eL ' ^" ^^^^^'^ -'-gory. 

has ac't^Siy .ound a^ir^^T a^t^ru^ ^^^Ifed^r ^-^'--^ 

T/Sm'®^^' CITT. 169:31 GETT 

OOKRy •Jacques. 

be t^aorrov durlrsc th« ^^^^ ^® or where vill fv,„ 

to«orr.:>v during ^1!*! ^ ^^"I'erence? '.."here vill ^P^^^^raft 

^^^durlng the press conference? Over the spates? ^^^^^^^-^ 
going to aean it-s - jun'a\"f.^^^^ ^" ATS coverage area • v , 

the crev scheduled t,^ n 

exact return schedule. ? ^afha^^^^ ^^'^ '^^^ '^^^^i--^. as far as th • 
U-le 85 far »e "^'fi toEJOi^rov- l 7- ^ their 

PAO T^-^"' ^*°Pi« '•eturn. ^V^^ ^rlng tne exact sched- 

QUERY ^f^' ^f'^^ ^a<i a question, 

tione. to one of tk^^^llj'^' the crewmen vas - 
*xperi«enf redlint. " butTw vf ^ RCS vas Just quote- "a . 

-^riB burn that I merl^^LA t some RCS repell\n» , , 

soa€ ^ust a trifle less s =f . ^ J^t a trin*. m^^.^ ~ 

passes 'hat v^'^l ^^'en essentia^lv r,r. i 'acre, 

(USA) PCI.8D/5 


HouBton, Texas 

kaTl' Cnttng*?-i3f Shift Debriefing 
lynd'^n ft. Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texaf; 
July I6, 19 

•NftLl Hu'.chinsvn, ASTP Teaja 2 Flight Director 
tvVs >irtis Hunt 

A3TP (U;U) PC30A/1 
Timer 03:15 COT 
Date: 7/16/75 

KUfOiUN.ON well, if « una "ice to ^« ^1^00 U.. 

uif .ig'ilo. aithoueh we got a coupi« of ^ ' f^; *^ ^i^^ you 

I L .lll Anl we've done one ulnco '.nen, uhlsh »as a pwjiiig miui='U«r, problem with if.e ...-U.. i'u.p jy ter.. » re..... .^^^^ 

•° r" ^;;rtt,''° '""rSv :s /«r™;,tu™rri.;-,d,.n..«..uver 

vitvi no further activity. And . concluie ii.r. all 

.Kv nuv. tried to u.. It - .uch in se.vuenc. .: ./ ^^l,.';^. , . 
..n. .Vcvr.Hr. urinating right after another one vlth ^^l;;-^ / 

fhc vay it i3 f^upposed to te oper&t>-a. In ajiy even-, ve.x 

AI5TP iUZk) PC,iOA/8 
Time! 03:15 

ti;}3iu!iln« that the urine systew doesn't have a protil«m» ami we did 
chang« out the one filter, wid unless ve hear aome nior«, <in«i I really 
M\i;ipf<;<^ won't, I think that 'a probably cloaed, Ve aperit ai awf-u) i^^t 
of air/ground tlse talking about it ovflr the three or four hoirs there 
uefore bed. And It did serve to kind of put us behind the p«wer curve 
ft Uttle mare beoauee thay were trying to get jready to eat, wid - the 
affiall momi of trouble shooting ve did ajid the talking Juat delayr^d 
U3 «vt.n further. One other thing ve did, which was the carryover 
thttt I wnlicned from the prelBunoh - activity, we ansed the aervlce 
module PCS, this aorhing. The analng vas done 8ll<."htly out of sequence 
an4 - - 

Mm' (USA) PC^0»/1 
Tiroes Qia^yQJfi-' 

Kl/l'CKrJNSC« We (tnaed iM liorvlce laodule RfS thl6 laorning, the 
arming was done slightly out of sequence ana v« effecUvely flllea tho 
propel Jant lines vith prop«Uaiit fr<m th« ^lads inst^M of propellarit 
from the PSM. Ana I realise thftt sounds kind of eoaplicated, Wt bAslcally 
our yoncerrt * the procedure wae to fiJl th^ae lines vHh props U ant from the 
PSM artd then to avltch back to the <iuads and of coiurse we launched with 
the propeilimt aource being the four Inaividusl t^uads, one on taoh door. 
fAar concern was th*t v« - those iJnes have Inert gas in then* thf/j 
rlon't have any liquid ar.d when wsa - of course that's tht- flr'jt tlia.? 
Uf^uid goes in there. Aivi the reason the arming ae^ju^nce tfs rinne with 
tht" IV;M isi teeaude that forces liquid properiarit througt-. nore plumbing 
and gett) nil of the Inert gas, wi;H-b 1 beli«v<* is iselivus. It mf»y be nitrogen. 
lt';j hfiliura or nitroRtni. Oiu- ihf* other. It doesn't ir,*itter, but it 
g'et;t ail the gas down near the engine a-j it all goes out at ^mce . Our 
concorn vaa eihce ve araei - we fiv.lcd the pvopeUant - filh-i the ayaten 
Of wett^rd it with the .VJa-'i pi-^i'eHa(;ti> ii.'vtesd yi' prop eU wit froo the PSM Wiur. 
that Wf might have had a snaU asouiit In-sit «&» «tiU up In th»* >5ystfcm 
trapped as « bubble, S;i thia ev«!:;ng we 'il'.S this thing which yo-x rrobably 
hi'Ard r«iVrred t?> on the I-'p *a a purge burn, which basically, w-.' put the 
iSM - <-onnt2Cted the PSM to the .'ets. Turned ur. ail l6 Jets . Sot up 
the hand controllers so w*- could i'ire a plus and alnua roll f.iraultanecusly 
3^-> the vehicle wouldn't i:iisi;ieuver icrssej-it H ;t . Wf burned tbe enj^iiie^s 
eight roll Jets aiault&neously f&r 1? seccnd? aibd all that did vas haul 
eriuu-gn prvpeA*s- ^*vw*^ vw#w*-*{y» ...^ ^.^.^-'.^.h — t ^t.-ai^ 
entrapped. gas in there , it would go out . NVv the problon - the thing 
you're worried about is getting a bubble of gas down at the ctiglne and 
having it there right when the engine »tari?>, because what that does is 
mesa up the mixture ratio. If you have a bad mixture ratio vhen you try 
to light a h;^pergclic engine, it*s not very healthy. Hovever, ingestin?; 
fi sniail air/junt of gas when the engine is on and burning 3r5 no problem. 
(Vit the purge burn vent off ccavletely noainally- That cost ua about 
f^oundu f>f nCM propellant to do that w'nich In really not gotiv. to bother -m 
fit fill. Wf' are over on the FSM no-./ per the standard fligtit plan where uv 
intended to be. 3 think that's the last you'll hear about that . The other 
Jittle aata ve got into tonigh.t which happened after wo thought 'Jie crw vm 
probab.iy through talking to us for the evening was this situation with tho 
[.robe. We hav<; fj. prccedure or. '.his first day} ve have an »?xper ir.eni - 
Klf<^t r<.pnorvSi;i , one of the el^Ttraphoreais experi rterstL; - that har n 
'c:j<yj<inl frofii-r that out.igaaaes nitrogen into thf: cabi!! mi h ri»guUir - 
-iu' u rf^gular t»fl?.i #. The proced'jjre for tonight waa tc> - before we went to 
b'-'d - van to t'^ke tho probe Du" and 'Uov the cryogenic frf!??er sn the Intwl . 
Close Jiatch i so that the freezer would be in the tunnel, iaolated from the 
cabin for tonight, in the process of taking the probe out, there i.'i 
a procedure we go throtogh to sollapoe the probe ajid then you have io put u 
tool to the back of it. It's kind of hard to explain without a probe 
here, but you put a tool in the back of it which mechanically i;i 
turned and releases the capsule latches which are engaged In the drogue. 

NiHV (UHA) rC30B 

ol" eourfsf;, whU h is utUl In the tunnel - tn»tMled in th« tunni?! ~ 
3tiatull<«ii In tho docking module* Wien Vance got rencjy to atlck 
ihut t'>,*i In there, he diacov«i«d thdt there W*a aofisft ifiterferene* mi 
%hp tool vouKin't go in vhen he got to inveati gjiting ii, It turns 
out Khti Interference aeeaa to be coding froB a - In that s am* &roa. The 
tool hm to go thro'jgh an ea-ea that h&a k electrical eonneetors - one 
to - they're pyrotechnic conn«otora - one to each of the four iK'ttleh 
thiit are in the probe. To aaXe a lon^j stoiy ahort, electf-Al to - 
since the erev waa already an hour - - 

A5TP iim\ rV.iOC/i 

miv\\ss-,s - -Oi^ the four iKHUe.i U.Ht urt^i.^num.^ ■ , 

J .i.a atfi the partial fuvjoaure of 02 in the cnbln 'uul 
v<.'., n.^..': 1 ■ 1 vith the probe In there and v. .]..v,. 

o.ntr.l Mve'-' Ji^t , ■:,-/:%'^''''r,"*^''''' P^-obe ovm- ln-~, ti.e ...I,... t.nese four pyra ccr.nectors - r .vv th.-^ v 
y.y chc to.l in there .r.i proceed n:..^aU; 'vi " 

,r,le rer. vh: . we get a lot cf people locking a'- o ^.,.;,->,. ;. •.„. 
a., n^e^.ur. -.t that's exactly v^«t ve w^^f to . ' ' .... 

■^^^v^''-^*--" rrcr. V-i.ce, aba.t vhat h,- thinks th, it,- -^r f-r.-r../ i' 
^' ' -e uest figure ri,:ht to be e>;.a.::5.v t h- 'p-.i l 

fin a i 

r;.^: \ ^^-^-^ p'^^^- i J ^- to^orrcv. Frobab.y ^v.?:. 

:\!'.; •'•^^^■■'Sr.? ger It .u„t. We vl n have tc v,.r> ,J h-, 

icrv,rroVs flight pUn of cou..-> in.o^v., ^.ll,:,, 
■•■ -J:-^-^^. -^'^^Juio. a;..i going doing the DM Acrivati^r., nr..i v, ' 
■ ; K<.t •->-ere vr.tll vf get the probe out. If it tcrw cu* t, 

iuing ^,r. co:npllc.ved tha:. that, I guesfi you could thnt v. 
r-Uy rr^ch field strip the probe right din to nut. "nd bo tn 
J.^i to al..s3er.ble it to take it cut. That vould c.rtainly ta> . n 

g*vr v-/u 1'-'/ , ciro^-vent. TJ-.e trajectory situation, to 

I nq J? : ^ '^^^'^ ^^"2 inserted today in 

« 119 .y 10. roughly and they were .lu.t .lightly under s^eed. tLy did 


■nm«} 03tX5 cm: 

do a maneuver tode^ and are currently in a l?^ by U)6 approKl^.xeLy . ln« ooyui 
has a nominally scheduled maneuver toaorrow, which th«y are gclng to do to clrva- 
Urtse their orbU at about IZ2 nautical ail^a- W^-'re currently sitting In a 
completely nominal orbit. We inserted Ir. about a did our circularU.- 

Ho «aniUr iSia afternoon to 9^ olrcalar ar.d then ve did a phajing n 
ib'k ?ive ^d a half hour.. U put u* in a 93 by 1?3 which Is where ve ar.. r,«hl 
:..v. vhl<i». i« ^.l3o nominal. We have a anall out-cf-riar>e iiap^^rslcn th.t'. h<r,u 
Un^ of in and out depending on what set of tracking data yon look av 
Hu<i I r,u8{*.cl th'it we'll probably do a aiiall phase correction wftneuver 
»M.iorrr.y. at, the scheduled time. There ia a time In the flJght pi«n 
i-r >. vhti^v. adJustMont, and I don't Hnow exactly when It U but ! t a I n 
..•.ur rlight plan. (Vobably as a 5«iieuver called PCM. And ' 1 1 probably 
1... thai tw.rrow. Like I aaiu, It will be very naall , 1 imgine it w*.i 
h.^ it.fls than 10 feat per second, probably done in RCt'>. 

f!([; OF TAPK 

ASff' (USA) PCiOD/1 
Ximt 0:3u5 COT 

Hl/fCHlHf50N We'll probftbly do that tomorrov, Xlk<i I salA H vlll 
be very ar.&ll. I imagine It'll be leas than 10 feet per aecourt and prcbROly 
tlonrt RCS. We'll watt until after the Sovietu do th«lr next aarjuvur so 
ve tan tai^o car* of any roalduede need to take care of trjere ao ve 
c&Ti aet uj> the r-end«tvou8 altuatlon ecmpJately norainid. iUght nov, 
M r<sr rta we cm teU the rendejTOus vill l>« absolutely nftssinai with all 
Ih'S taaneuYora o<jrurlng about noml»al - about noainai size md on tim^. And 
the roml<*avou8 aequence looXs ^craplet^ly aa ve plaiined it. And aa far 
hs toKorrow's flight platl goes, ve df^n't have tuiy big ditties exc^'pt tot 
this one to get the probe out which I non't conaider to be a big ditty 
1 thir,k we*il probably get it cut first thing in the norning. Ar.d tnat 
Might aei us back a little bit but I really don't think w«j'll have a 
icr of flight plan mods for tcwrx-ow. We'll fly It pretty much as 
Hdvt'rtised, All in al] I think ve just had a refl-^rkablti firat day. I recnll 
hov I fell abcut this tine the first day after SKyiab 1 launch and it's 
a ccrr.pleteiy different atmosphere considering tho very rai nor thing^3 
that ve );ave to worry about her-, versus the things ve vere worrying 
ab;,mt then. ?o I'm real pleased that things are going along weii. J 
guess that's Ril that's up. Have aor.'J tjueaticns? 

Hell, could you go thrci^h in a 1, 2, 3 fashion 
prociaely hov the crw is going to attack this prcbe prcblec! upon 
awakeninj* in the morning, 

Hl/fCHIN&jSi Vefri. 1% ' a pretty hard - I haven't seen th^ procedure 
wA they're JU3t vorkir-g it up and I didn't even know such a prcoedur%? 
exiii'.t-A uutil shortly before I left but let me go back again and t«li 
you wh«rc- the probe is. The probe nov is dangling free, if you will, 
in the t'xnnel vith hatch 1 open. You can't close the hatch because 
when you collapse the probe, if you reraeKber, when you take '.he three big 
prongs that attach it to the vails, you knov you use the nandle and jack 
it down. As thoae thlnga ccae off the wall, the back of the profce backs 
up towftrdr- you if the probs'a in front of you and you're sitting her* - 
kind of like a car Jack that's extending. The probe is ftlU attached 
to t.he drogue withe three capture latchea. And that's hov ve vent 
to leci. Now in f.he iTi;j>-ning, in order to expose the screw that, ve nei'd 
to ^ake ff - take out - ve need to put the probe back in the t^uinel . 
fiRir.stftU it in other vords - in other vorde Jack it the opposite 
dir<-::ti-,f! as if you were Jacking your car Jack the other direction and 
w';'ll it back in the t\innel Just the vay It vas before Vaiice started ttie 
procedure. Then ve need to take the screw off, vhich takea a ISttle Allen 
wrench, S belie"* - _ 

tM) of tape 

ASW (USA) p;3o-K/i 
Tliaei 03515 COT 

tP^THlSSON - -that covers tha pyro - the; cap covers the pyro 
n..u'-c^" r^. It hft8 a hole tn the s-lddie that you stick this tOo\ lhr^uf,h 
n.;^t.'l- rc^uirea to release tha captur.^ latchea. That's tht. thin« w*? 
;,'ui-u''t Jo vns - aee we were all reft^iy, we hftd the probe colUsped emd the 
iv-xt a-.p to taK« this epeoiai tool, put It through the hote ai.d tun. 
I, lJ.Kr.-o8, I thiriX, And that reU-aaeo the captur.' Ifttohe. nech^vnU-ul ly . 

And Uu^n the rrobo i« free and you' ve got it out. ^^^^v. onc« ve IJ';*- '■f-^, 
l-^ek in and reinstalled, ve n.ed to "^yttlr^-' 
eov-.M'ing the pyro corm^cton^, vKich are the things ve think ar. 
civil..' .,9 the I'nterfer-nee. Once he gets that ouyer fiff, cwi Iocs 
Ht ih-m «n<i see ail four of the oonrieetura and see which one - one *s 

;.U;.uring hi« ability to gel the tool down Into th. proper ^^^^J^^"^^, 

rnr v.uImh?. tno capture latches, m.l s^ove U out of the v^y. .ti.. t,.o 
tr.ol in there, veil of course, once you - once you get the cover off 
then we vant to cnllapae the probe again. Th* only rewon ve Have to 
reinstall the probe Is with the probe in the eollapaed pua.tion . vh. ..c. 
:;X^ V. vent to take out to remove the covering over the pyro connecto . 
if ;.t Vi3ible. You caiv't get at It. V.o then they'd collapse tne probe 
and onoe it vas collapsed, put the tool in lu^d release the -^P^f- ]^;}'^^' 
and t^^eyi be free and of course t.hen we'd probnbly pun the pl-a^. fa..^ ..n 
th*^ pvr> ronnectora. Nov, I dcn't - Vance aaid that tried to 
...v/lhe connectors vlth a pencil. He put a penci. doun i rs the hole. 
Am' c..n't gel at them very veil. I've looked at the coyer, he prcb. 
wtM, -f.e cnver on ar.i off and the hole is about, i'd .ay tf, atour 

ino., m dioaeter md you rcaUy can't see the connector,. - the a^w 
;...lor.u There are U connectors in there, vlrea come W ^r.'^ _^'^''y ^'f-'' 
.,v. r uod they roaJie a 00 degree turn and go - «o right j,r.t- ^n^i nf h 
.'....l lit- whole - the whole asser^bly's about this big arc^ind a<nd the 

^oe-^ over that entire as^eKbly. And once you get that eover ojf, 
;;:;.n .ee the connectors ven' plainly, ^o^, U one of tho.e connectors 
V. -overin* the hole ve have to go through and If worse con^-a to v.-:.r. .., 
ve =nay'bav^ to taXe the connecter off. We think we cai> tu«t turn , 
phY.ically. t.e connector, nove it out of the way. Ana o... ^^^^^^ - 
Uori, if that'3 not the case, ve could take the - nay to ' ^ 
h/oon..ctor off which doesn't bcther u. either. ?ut f^. ' " 

,..-,n-t-.r. are u9ed to fire the bottles. We've uaed cne_lvad^. = h^ c 
.n. three other, left and of cour.e we, car. ccr^pletely. ^^^^f _ 
ve do -mv of ihla we'll disconnect the probe cables bo. there » - y.-. ^..-w 
:he pr-'^bV's an inert object. Nov. you now the guyn «.re worK ng on J:e 
P ocedure now and I wouldn't be om-prlsed if it's refined or they r^j 
Un' to ask a lot of quests cni in the morning when - thvngs na...' a^habj v 
of changinyi aa tiir# goes ov. here, through the night while the crew r. 
'iieetsihA. But that'a the current plan. ,t 

Im^i Hell, this 10 the refurblahed Apollo l^* proh? 

tl»!TCitI?(SON fea, it Is. ,i \ - i 

qURR{ Did they ever diocover why the Al>oilo U probe nad 

:vi r.u-h problem in locking. I cwi't find- - 

AfTF ir.A) PC 30.E/2 

releasing the "fpti?^ ^'l »^<'^^/am«i!i u\^^'t^** ^"hl^ 

'.ney broug>it It back a*« ^ ^ found with th*. «v. > ^ 

the only prcb. ve ev^. , 'T'*' ^' ApoUo f " ^^^'^ 

; 5 

We the- 

y-' could disaanu* " one' of the vor-t „ < 
■ * really don't W r.w '^'^Hu 

to taks !ipa 
released . 

-0 get U out If ve ecv^A.'T " "^'^"^^'^ ha*-,. 


teaser,, -v tvl, prerogatives. «\V8 i.-, th. m.,.-.; 

the probe, au""^;^ ft' th. v, : f.:'' ''^^^ '^'^^^^i^^"^^ 

QSfKPV exogenic freezer, .,e = 

^-r^ly reason I v^-/' -^t^irig wron« vlth ►f',/ " ' 

«- 1 ■-.sxe the rover off f > effect on -■ * 

: ■■^■t--'i^r4 procedure ^ ,1' ^^-Ped the cab^r.:"' , , 

•'■'^r-^"^- yo-i need to 'a^; (h^ ' ^^'^ '^^-b<n "r;':..'" ' ^''"^ ' 

" air t^BB rwisture n - ^ ^^^ndency to take " ■'"'■^ ^ 

fnica Reep the li<j'rroL" '""^ -''"^ "ever g' t .JrJ'' ^^^^^^^ ^ ... 
Off tonight vhfrf " y°''' ^«"'t set it ^^""^^^^ ^'r^- ■ 

Oentienen - . 


HouHton, TftX*« 

, B. Jch.'i^jori ,-,"p6ce Center 
ff! , Texas; 

Franf. , AS'TP T ,1 Flight D ■ recvor 
Littlctor*, A5TF Teara 1 Joint Flight r-ireclor 

...... . ....... ^ - 

\ 5. V 

.;;VHs V,, HV8 television tr*^.Bxti!3ivn 

.-n..r« va. ;ra.t.mi«. ,h«r.;.sv.n't 

^'tA.iK Mt^hia point v*8 i^iring the 

t.i^/the only '.el..vUUa ve expecl.d at .his f-V 

.,,^v'i. w^^^ni't it' , «.„,,M,-i.«.i launch taievlHon, Uv«J 

V- ^v," V i > ;;i i ' ^ . it's '.^zje *>5^v'>^ Wi.:?, ^■hii... !t' 

a 3i'4U«u.,:e« , ituV-" «.H Ihe .^w^itj-i'f.a that 

" '"Vf thwy to^jk out «i f^lf o:' ;;utfc ,! t. U ' ■ 

tirtf Vu-* a litris bit Kurri-i^^H hat *:r.ey'rs 
•h-it;- , Sinei lis? ♦:J'?tf. a^i i .lojiig - uox :}nly tig^hig .:::;T thfe 

;l r.;!!:?? 3:'m.' Cutting bnx ^ - ^^bvi-'-JUJiiy goin,? to tiy 

OS' hi^\.-vy c: t!;"ir rli^hr, ty ;utft l;sk..-k .-^ff vc-,i;r1 it an-i 

1 (l,* 



---^r^^^ vi. :,:„. :::: ^« - tv' 

'^^^ 1« v-^/v^. C:':^,'-^^ ''^'^ ^^^H:.! . , 

scfted-.ii^. That';* 'P.-'mt Vv i I ' '^^^ ^''^=5. the s«u«- 

t^ornin^. r/ T'.^t t.'' ^ T."''^'' *^ « '"apori to you this 

to ask User., ' ' lotJvltles, pleaae f«ei free 

hcur ^ h,,,,,.. ^ , ■ - '^-^ ^ va,« vh^^t, Q,ry, about an 

fit!, rf-nffi !-cva"v«i th«* fia'.^ AJi'.i t:? !.rvi:' btriK Kn-'w tt!'-J^'? 

^h!/-; wt* ft***i i-;;**'- th&t VAa s:;.r;c <:''. f a V^v.. ii^.T^ d'ur&tivtV 

they ',«.xfte4 nbcu!. i* U^hr. whi,,^h ~ vhHi aiJ iha*;. th*;ti* to 

*her«? arfi tvo s.a'^*«- ahir'j; 1 ; fC,':i * ';ri t-lthc^r :;j'.l*> o!' Oir I'va'Stcvr 
■■^■■i':h. Both oj' f.rit'St^ iigiitss ■:'-:--.r '-r;. Also y:'-! gff^ H.HV u-c, 

; i . 

; ; •;ri;s '.?!;•* 1 r.i i : at y,-; '■:.'!.^ f:ttV!'» lypf :;f mi"-rnl-/ 

viT,fj ?i '^isr rji,s;f.i cr, our aiifily^i^, >ii.?. th- p*¥er.» t.i:^>:', v^" fe-si that ve h-ive 
ft.: proVlf-'A wh«tiio«v«r i.iih thnt pferi i-:;U%r y-t of h«r4vaf« but ve th? nX 
thht there is a tfooii ity that wc if tsave a pr.)biea, pcsslbiy inter- 

mitteJtt and exactly hew :.rrti;n its gsin^ ' .'>;cur, it »ay oacur, fell thr.-ighoui 
today, aaaoi'iiited vilh Ihii* failur:' dst, «-::♦; ion not vith lis<» fictu&S pl^ce 

t';,.rN ths cj-sv vhtfn they first the (slsJts siliice it 

wa.3 in the eo-ntrol »y«tea thst vni-. RCTftrvUlft^ the vwhlele did go tht- 

■?:^r-itrol flystf;s Juijt to &me auri' th%i they hni n ^^Jv-i ccntrvl t 
itui;;'' ftre ?i.:irt'val ly fiying in vutxi ve eal 1 -.'MC ..-ont fol . 

lii i"tM:'r vvtdy, ii'-' t't.e rrii'sry ^' isT,i navl^fi* i cr: sy;jt!.;x. '■"i'-'-y 

wi*'. ih.T'- uttit.udi/- thought he'.l - fhe •ittitu^lo had drifiai .-ft f»t 


i'!'!;:fi V«» he had drifted off. In the backtip r.ntioi 

j-ysteR v« had oti« - ve huve tvo gyr;-» -rhat control th« v«hicio in • !u» 
't^v'l^.^^l! systes. Dru' ed" those vas j'cverfta off and Van^ie vna '??riU«i iiitis 
xj m thnl It took hln aoae tiise tc- get the gyro 9p «n the ayatem 

and got uontrol. So h« waa sc-ae thing llHe It degrees off at the 

rUPDV That atliiudt. ~ vhat dary is iiAVirtg 

i.-? that attitude ex<?urision itJ noif.taaly vh«t you vouVi expect \inie8S 
you had that B MA'j on line »uvi w«iK«d up, 

8?Kf< Bruce. 

Q'JKRY what - viiy vrs ii thi?n th^:>>'ft th.^r ri.'dn(?,i;7 If 

£hi»re vas nc- problcrss, if it was -jniy in the Xvi jtj c , and it If* only a 
!;ran.'.5ient , iht-n vhy did v<- end up with S'.'a-i- firing;? 4r,4 thfn l-ske had to 
c^:l :.'^ver tc Kdniaua iKpulae? Wh-rit vn:'' thir. ftll (ib.::;;;': , ch,;,?*? I reiliy got 
v'.T, fused cR that 1 

''^"^ -''^^ c.>.'curr.-L v.. «s for ^ tlriu^ in .-V 

'SO;'. ;t,"i li^-p 

::r.or'.U ^.r-jri-^fK-r vc ^.:!: the rviU-r 'U«rr:. Art-, v.- 1 


f / i. "> 

1 0 r < ^ 


: .•.•ui t'.V- Vht^y 

.,v,.-'l,» rirat, P«t«, hov Ao your 

with o... ti..i th«y nav. .e«n 

v,-/ir.k, wh»t Kind of cooperation e»n y^'U 
in the Soviet tjniwii . . 

' " •■ ' * .: ,-.v ve'*-''" ft\i b««n -concerned BVv.iv *• ♦ 

' *h»t uiU tttHe p.l&c«'' 

.... . ,-iv.vt< the 4ock'.ng t*5ialtf t>r ^.jtM^^xtxm ^ 

t 3 ihB.' t he 

i ■!.A,«,r : 

it. ■ty- 

,>,nk. getting faek to ty.a^_ ^'"^f .^'^^^/^ Hr 
r r-*^'"t.v^ it It one of three ^'wnerW. It's vhe 

' fOftrt>U^ televUion broaicastc taerUj). 

othor th&n the one that did not get. 
Ko^^'it^on't S;.ve .ny reason to believe they're no' 

■ I « V 

K.te, on Ih&t orbital adjustment tt^ueuver tha^ 
t don't think so. I tatnk it vlU probably «t a 

But l i-eatiy -t^*^'- y®*' 
'.»'>mt (io vou mtsft 'by f'PSt 

Tre Service Propulsion ;Jy8tem. the mln ^t'- 
h'C J^U'-h detail ana information did you 
^.t'cv.ct Mls.";n Control Coruer IcdayT Bec^ase ve .id n.t near 

>«'»>. V ■^i.^-w.-i ti...i. I.,.' ( .- : .. ... ». < ,, , .-, 

-!-''!' * tt for . t .rii .> i .•( vo .uei U:«'!) 

> ' •> " '..Jul intfi ' ! iJ* Wt. 2,a."'ie"-i. 

oil 's.ii' tc t u a <g >-lAi 1 , ih'J tiisitfick. Ware 

:.'! '-Af-fcn i ' a-'i v'-niy tis'-suiM* tnsy ar<? on tir«'» for thai. 1 

< ' Hn.<- !. / - f» e ,t 4icft^-ii:g with 

'If, -;■,;■>(.; f;.i%u! vi <X\ nil loiay/ 

■ ..-•I'm;..,- .1 >j . m«j f.a. e iiwk . 

A,i tit 1 i 5. ^ ' J *«r' ...Trr.t:ii eating vith 

'1 ' a' 1 I'l * , .t ' B 1 <, '. 

i -Ik ' ' X V o . t . ,0 . < ,' 3siyut ir 

' -- ' ' 1 - • ' 'i- .> • il . 1 . • *.5rg &t ^' "I'll. 

rt(v y , \l , .1 ' at 'if ' iLKlng about 

' \ '\ i 'it- 1. , i f, : ..■rt.'i* : 'i^'m' <• other than — 

:):;-^!. ujM far I HUUV, it's* tiKill ' *h^y Btiil plan otbM 

,:!:;, Its ■ !,V5 yr)u re <iny - j.^rhttv* ^'tiiynl r«'?':firH»^ in sj-.y 

ff:r*rks Uk^- wtt sh.)uvi r4'!!.r3:.t tfiJa uh*;n ve ;io U 

t ^'A'tK t*«H5 f'rc?^ ',he ;;oii^of.aut9? Ni?, I can't recall 

.:i-/,U ■ I 4or»' t re^JAli a-vtutng that vyui-a indion*f thU. 

■.^MKiiY la it possible to ieacfib*? th* ros-itlon of Apollf 

vi'.r. !' -I't'ct I'! ;-oyui * uT'r;:.j'E'ow , or is thlG const^Mitiy <;htir:gi.nt;1 

" , it U - i^' i.-f .^otvit&fitiy cnangtng. Apoilo ; 

V -^.fu behini -he foyvu In orV4V «xi it's w jiUnned, Ar.4 it's sigwiy 
r;>/ j'.>i£itvvt} positiv^n ^i:*t %s v<? i.'U^f.a;i for it to, 

•,,i!fj(V ;\> YOU kflov vhioa of th« a^trofiButa use-:t the t'avaia^i 

j-hru.u: wher. tn*- iziawi tipn into I'j'bU was? ss^e? uf tlm 

Very gcK>d Riiasiaji. 
H.;;A'iK I diin't c^tch vho sai^ that. l'r> sure that we c-ai» 

,^iv«,v When the tvG Mi a a ion ^'ontrol Centtjrj:. talk to each 

■ ,ih».T '•-r; tho vncn« 01 r.y telatype, 3^ te-cbniclftrts ft*?**^ t rw;a»»,lons at 

!v'K , ve u3<? if;leri>retin-i; >;ctv<^.'rt .:.?fi'.r:'i .:e:it-iM'*= . 
Uid any of the RStro^^au'sJ or c;.'?r\orti5.v?.y t*iHe tw>y- 
s,hi;iK";i- thf vay of ^fi-:iicH%ion'! '-'.ti.>n sickneas, or what^w-'; 

;.-:,\:vK ' I don't know aVoiit the co-35;enaut3 . I •» s-ire the 
. t f".^r:H.' .la hfive t:ot. 

;,;;'^:-.j-!Y Hnve not? 

. ' r^k Havs? not , 

.^;,;,-.HY Difl'ATS corse on as y;:'U frjipectedl: It sf^aM'i Vvai ver<? 

.■-•tUn'': rt lot ot 1.03 » and then all of a eydien yo'J ?et Ara going ».tc.od. 
..'iuit 's. • i,av altuatiofii 

j-UAfiK Weil, the ATd data ctoa* Ir. about vh*n w« expected it 

'.s.. !!', fact, ,1u;it a3 soon Jts the crev tvTtl vated thtit -.yott-m. Trrere 
:-.-cmca :.o be, the data aeej?.;! n'sJsy, and It drops out aivi •vorf.w.'i b«ck hi, 
iu,d drc-fs out and cones baci; in more than we would like tu oee it. Ve'ffl 
istii! •.fOubU'3 hooting that to ii"y and detenrdne where the i-rohler. in. 
■ft»;. crtalnly u.-mble and giving gOJd data. It 'a Juat a lit tle 
;;..,li/ than vr'd like. And hopefully vi> can clear in at up soon as we 
rind ■,<iU th*> causja of it . 

• ■AO Okay. IV.ank you very euch . 

Lyndon h. Johnson Space Center 
July 16, 197'^ 

f'r.rtici pants : 

i:)3i;aivi H. Pud^V, A.Str Teaa 3 Flight Director 
■jary Ceen, OulfiRnse i Navigation Officer 
Charles R<NlTsc.r,:i, PubU5 Affairs Officer 

rti'HI^ - ofcC Offi i;er, '-iK-ry Coen w»--i I 'Mftjt tf« fttghi 

th«? nUht'a tt':tlviti<ja, ^ ... 

ok<»y. Very gc^d, Vh^t I'ii Uke to oti^rt. -xai witn. 
Oil 3 5rvffi\i5g l8 ,hwt Iv' Siike #ur« Umt. w« h^ve » coBMfe>n un4«<-»tftr.4lrm 

I'ha on^- U'lng t'>at v« >iH t/A. do wt;? th« mJV rosier sc^u^ T^d's U sfet«i;/ 
It aan^uver th*i I think 1 triefly aenUcaftJ to yo':,i ye»l«r.ii»y K'>rnin«. 
vft«re Vf lr>- to .i«?tenBin« the exact at i Mmni ot that tsrticuVar 
insUasfrni with respect, t-? the n*r thftt. ve*r« using *« » target. 
W.' two yf thosfB partletti»r aiineuvera fche'iule4. tb^r*** anclhtr 
..■n-e 3;>hcia,Ui en Sh^ *^ ^ Wo do n:>t f«ei that there v&« any j^rsbl^s in 
. ir thii iclfttUw th*f rarticulAr n&fteyv«r that's the reason 

r-- a'-.-n.-^siiifi^ 'he ;:rv.* on x^'tltyir.g *h*t we have t.h« .^crrfc:-. 

'Jay t>. aU5 i<?»t on* Ksrth S<wour?«« SiappiBg F*"» 
which vaa over the 1^3, i'l^ «.ot r.ura exactly vhen aft 4 if w« vliS be ab.^ 
f. i>«h«4ule that f.anicular ecverfigJ again. We also have 8<*e height 
mH«surer.*>nt8 *eh#aala.i cn the crev3«n. If you've b«er» following air 
♦ g,vunri thU »:rnlrig, ve have filrea^y gbtalned oSit» i*ts point on 
Vaii^i- Brand, earilwr in the aUelon and we're trying tc- get another data 
pv-ii.t on hlB to'lay, if it fits in with their em 3che4uie. As far a<J the 
iT'^hlwa are cDncrernei let m go over a couple of thee with yov. <-n« 
l-r Kh*"t. 'h&t you aay have heard R^niioneA cn air to grc^nJ yeat«r4«y 
vft^ t.h«'. the crew is having a Uttl«? tit of trcivbie cLotirig Ihr -^utsldft 
fj^'f^t oO'Viti- tho hest shro'ii of the tsulti -purpr? fumeiCf". niere is 
H (-al fax tvv«* conn«'ctcr that i ss wstjd tcf^i^u^M; th&t J^-.r. tnis 

ac^rninV th^y report«J that Vance had gotw back -iovn in'.-., th^ de*:-eut 
— i^^i*- (yic) •ind pushed a Uttie harder on the dnr.r. Th^-rr l^i i^^^a, eroun.. 

aocr and he -lid get it cloaed. Hwcver . in the ever,^ 'h^t ve i.av-? 
'iny :\it'jre probU-ss with thai , particular fastening aecnanidn, we have 
a„Kpd the crew to olacft a piece of Velcro on the top of thnt heat 

Hid and tnere t« already a strep on the front of that *;>or, &u?r. 

♦ bat we can lust swing the strap over and hook it \jp t: tnat Vvlcrf f«d 
^d that will hold it s?tiui. So there's - there's r<^«Uy m problen 
there, i rmv« a picture of that - if - if tsy deacr ti^J:^ va^'n i .near 
T.ji be wre than happy to show you a pluture of what that io-K.«j i.i*e - 
after we finish here. Ve, also, apparcntj^' have ac^ie sort p( a xeaX in 
the hftUiw line from the furnace. And, bnsieally, those - 1 tninR 
y--n've probably be-Mi briefed befcre on exactly hew it vorKs, but we 
have a heat uprate, a passive cccldown, and then when we get to the la-it 
t3.&rt of the cycle rn a particviUr :Tar4ue in the furnace, ve inject 
n*.Uua. And, the hell'-'a allows it to cool off faster and juat «nabi«a 
■li n- be able to place uore sarspjes in the 0arnace v'thin the aUotted 
tire. It arpears that that neli'in is leaXlng out ani «;3 a result our 
.■.-^ldow^s i?, not aa fast a;- af:t ieieated. l-he a«^tion that vc'w ta^en 
today iK tnat since the sajnple that is presently in there, is ^oing 
to take longer to cool - •• 


lit',.';. '-.hi'C/i 

;ara.:^r'rM« r.:. in.t^'i arr>u.,r - t.{i«n^^»ai«r ''^^^f ^ ^ ^ 

■V'^'i-f tke (ir;U trHu«fer, xn^'-XfAl thirl havt' -.e.^^f-..- 

./r.r ^iruh.■'.. cperivM.,:.. ^r.' v-f.on-K^a. with U.e '^^.MvU.y 
■.ri..-'...i *-.iriUv viUi Uu; i^^u4fiS«,ns Tjiirsiig th« first t«r^si*T. 
■•V f'-.^'iihle lix !Vr tt.e f«-n thhi we do navr Ih*. n*U-.m i^ak - v^; 

vUI ST.* :>huw Ui-^., ;^«^ke h?.^. ab^.> b«en ;i;:v::. Us.-' a>^.a-Sf.t 
. ^v4-;i valvec! timt *rft vn s*rir^ - in !h« U;.'? th^l 

.... .J. vv>ni.'ii <^.^veibsard vh^ni you var.t It ver*'e'd overfc-strd . '-'^ 

.,:.■„.,„„,.*,« i r:v lt?'ilf. *>u far h:: thf probe U' rcTiCPJ rici, I ■t:; 

X t ;n; 1*-!". . 

■ '- ^ T , ^ 

• i .1 i:: 

H.:V'l jjr-periy 3tyv«rl. The 

■ar:- «ft*n- cney, w^iit to sieep, 
abl<« to fif.l &fvy ^'Cftiilticn. vn the 

r, ' H.;vi>vf>r, *i erupJe cf hours Ut«r, 

:.:,Ar;/ , yi-'U r'Jiy vfvr.t. t ; 

i a I ;■■■;;'■.■> 

.i.l'. f-^( V 

I ; I,-.'. regis Vy ?,«»Uing yet; vhnt t.r;?: v'l'V . 

.ev..r>il ty5:e. of failures. Ar.l it's h»ravf*r*^ ^ev-r-i-^n 
■ -rar.ji-^tors, stole;-, ve^ictvf^ - th*vt <cin<i cf 

..1,^'^ -i,'. .--^j-uter, whftn ihi- c-rsputer this a^gt.Kl, ' 

\. a.;>ur:s thai :^r. "..^iJ you at..ut, W.- ':Vlr^ ih-.'. t.l. 

•l':.n7o^i. It. d^u. vha* V'^ c^u . 

frc; .fa.hi.ou. to ^e. if th^*'- i r.t" >,-inaMo>. -^J ^'^^ ' ^ • 
:w.^^,....-e thaft; th^: oas.'. vN.'li .,!oiri»? ^orae n«re ivlai -^i r*r.;f-, 
'.iure th'.t that'. r:ghi. snai'-^ re^ly - unle^i, y.r.; iu.v» 

AST? (USA) PC3l^B/2 
06:09 COT 

V -^^iv ani I vant to aaXe 

has been'-u brie.^ 

other one ^^'^^J^^^^^^^.on understandxng of vh.-^ n P^^ ^ ^^^^^^ 

t-„af3 ««-^«;^f f ^.e gay that ^^^^^^^^f ^ ^ .^^rt^^^ly^ ^^'^^^ 
t,aiKgrouri<i there, .ieslgnftted -^^^ ^ ""^^^.g, vhich is the 

TV cDuneras. ^ne . which i ^^^le. ^ 

vhich ia presently ^f^f^^ l_ ,^^y ve thougni had ^ 
1...,^ V- aiscussed VI :n ><^^' , ^ ^^er. reported to_i.s a^ ^ 

'^ode - or at ""^^ --^.-v,..,. .nd a ^..^^ 

white cair.era. 

vehicle and a 



vhic'n is a P'' 




ASIT (USA) PC3i4C/l 
Tine: 06:09 CDT 

eL::^^:? v^SSe^acins ^^^^^^ 

Russian control Cent.r ^^°"f J^J^^;y//p,iSem on the fast day and 
bit of trouble shooting on ^^'^J^^^^^^e is a conmon svitching 

a half, •'mat they have found out ^1^11^1^^,,^^^^^ unit then that °f :r/^Tnrth/rel S ^dlnpu^^ it to the 

has the capability of v,aXlng tne sex y around. And it appears 

transcievor or trana^sitter for this coLU 

switching |anit. The .ax l'^^/^^"^^^^, around that particular cor.non 

is to go aiTjad and route .ne camera ~\<^ ^ ^ g^j-e ex- 

svitching .mit box. As far as ,f ^Ij^'tte as 5 vhid^ x 

pectins the way of TV ^l^^^^^^e. lir.e which will be 
sch-^duleti at hoara a..d 't, ^oir*- to cover Sovuz activities 

using the TKJ ^J^J^^tt on oJ hat. Again using the 

at 50:25 ve have vV -' 4%^^,^^;-^ vehicle. Soyu= activity. As f 
7K2 car:era "^"6 of^.^- ack since that is there with the 

as ve Knov right no--, the ^^^m .^lar meaning vili be 

hatch closed, their hatch 5; w.e.. _ , PJ^^l;^^,,^ 

:ieleled. 'I^J'^:;: vl' TV 3 which was scheduled at 52 hours Oh. 

Atvithcr one that --as j.',.an.ieu ya.- . » carsera. 
w.. the ccn:::e.tar,-^on the ---^^^-J;" ^^^^ :::u;.d .lapsed 

tin-' IS u;,uig tnc ... * ' . . . .. nrf-T- orations- fcr the aeettng 

a.;a ^^^^■^-^•^ scheduled and ve also have .\ 

.-.^'rw TK \ which is act-:^iiy ce.'ei-ii.<, --"t- ^^P^--^- "'^.1. 

in afford. tra:iPferrt..« -»« ^ ^. ,^ tv 1 &nd TK 3 c;ar.«ratf. 

.-v..edul':-i. -ney rav. actual ly -..ri. . .el .ha^ „;^,:'^,.,, r 

. , .J .,r 1'- work around v r^.^cev.,.. f 

wor. .r„ '.hi.^ b^i-,^ a:..„...,..l ..^-^rUn- to this fif-uit b. = x. 

• ..... - A - i-- V ' i "i i_" 'r; r . ^ - f ■- ^ ■ , I. 1 * - . 

.V --.-;*: ■/.>.'m'"-/ . < r li.fid *i3aur,ir.^ i.nt, .e .,1.. .• » 

..-^n'-.;.: V'MXf, ■■■h'-^ " ' * .* , „ ,vr,* vi'l h,' ':he pjhii v...; 

-.r... M.*. f.n*^f, 'h9l 'hey 'htuK tt,':'y r;avf> r.^.^.. -- ' .-y 


tnr ft: 
it'-' fi. 

t,h!vt • vi'iy Is'. a l'^.** 
flight r.i'iitning bc". vli;c 
(!ti, ...he rend':V. v:;-,:'? , 'h 

vTf^enV tin--- u'..:" 

5 r f- 

'1 au:'.-:^ . 
' ,r'-,c i f 1 
: v; ty . 

an . 

AI-TP (USA) PC3iiG/l 
Time: 06:09 CDT 


hi» go to th« control mode tZ ,T P'-^lMlity. sl vfjit 

the failur. to occur and of 00^,^'^ "^/•'"'■er or not ve cJulfLt 

vou.d\- itt^ej ^rr„jt :iv?",s-tSr - ".v:?;^ct 

Covild it osas^ ^ attitude. 

['^-'"V rnase or ar.y other f,c^oi ° «":"htn« of the 

.'0-. -cuUn't have ,our;:;,:"::'^ S'™ - sfvlnj J", . 

• li^te T::' -^ere talking c,v..,. ^. 

An l 9: 
" 1, i 1 b e 7 

J^fiy, also in front- -.Mv... 
'^'^iicy cause thiK fa's: U' -. — K-ent or ! it ^jji p,,.,^. 

tha^ va^i dene 4^-,,., " "^'^-^ thai -Mt;,-- , 

; ^3fw., but ve'll he «a-K, ^'^^•'■'^ •lu 

■•-ny *nar it's the bbj-v ■ ' " ^^'^ which,-. M'- 

^«^^-^«'t really • : , ! ' V''^ 

5 ■■■■ ' ' - -external ...r a 

-■■^ th-it ''.created tha?~ -'^*;-'ituie of v,ha- they 

t.h«t tffts I v.. ft --f-.J-T found a conducive 

1 ii .^cn r 

rirv^v . , fuc-ugh to 

Ve - _ • ^"^ -^^^ it's that dlcde 



Tiao: 06:09 CDTT 

vith xTthat respect!' S^S^^.r^rriSi"* '''^^^^ '"'^^^ correlate it 
r^uch motion in the vehicle ^'^'^^^ '"^ there vaa not too 

certaJS? have not beefl^l'?: ^e^ect^'n''^?^ T'""'^ '^'^^^ 

the ^gnitude that .ould cause that ■ ^'vi^r^U^^^. !!^?„f!^^'Vn«- 

recorder off 


Father questioi^s-i 
Let's go have breakfast, 
-e have had no - 

Hey, Don. Can ve start all over? They had th,^ 

.'•5y fipologies. 

Okay, vant to re^id the question? 

.if there had been ^ i^J^lJ^'^'l?^ .::[^'^^' '^^^ Sioon asking 

the arisver to that 1^ no ^^^JiJ'y^t:'' f^^^^^^s vith this crev. And 

crev vas carrying sor^/^^t^o^ " ^""""^ - ^ ^^^^^ 

ven^ative -eafi;..-, ^hei ' ^''-.^^ation cere or less aa a pre- 
Van:e. I relieve/,: - .^^'Jl ' ^^^^^ H.' 

i'-^ v.. taking tha^ prc-hv c/'^ /-^ ' "''""^ ^'-^ ^'^^ syratoms; 

norr.;.g rej,vrt toiay ^/the' cn^ y:;:::^.:^' / ^f^^^f ' ^^^re - the 

z.-ers vere feeling very fine ^r^'^^r^^Z^:^'^^':^ that all three crev- 
o: tr.e df.ta that ve ' w received Ca^'l . ' nothing -Diring a:^y 

Time: 06:09 CM 

T^^'^^'^^ . verv fine and, of 

All three se-Dbers were received so far 


Houston, Texas 

A:;T!' «;h'iri«e-of-3hift Briefing 
i.yrvion ■Jchii3on Space Center 

tio'iLj'.ori, Tfxas 
July 16, 19V5 

Flight Director 
apaul"^ CorJiuriicator 
.!i.^t:;n, Joint. Flight Director 
-'i ',*irrc'tt, Fiiblic Affair- Officer 

!' ■■It! 

■ir i Truiy. 

AGTl' (UiSA) PC32A/1 

'i'jmp; i7:3'i CDT, S-i : Kj OCT 

o ray zmediat. right is Frank Littleton. A5TP Jolrtt Flight Di recto"*" 
to right is Pete Frank, TUi^ht Director and to his right A^Zo- 
naut Dick Truly, the Cap Con. Pete vouid vou start? 

e ^r? ^*" f activities were and not go into ar.y great^et.h , 
.a. ,e o.erted off tcaay vith the prcbler.-; of trying to «et th^ dcpkin*. 

i"neti:;t''i '"ri' '^^'^ ^'^^^^ t^s :::n" 

the flight plan to be doing that ^nd the that ve spent d.nrig 

•^ls';'e''l'^::::r' "-^^^ ^nd before ?he no^'ng 

:!'. ^^'^ '^PProxinr.tely an hour behind the planned 

a.,.ivit:e3. There vaa one- other coMributinc fftctor in in ani 

:?::u:^:?:.j! ^r";' ^^."^^^^ tvoor:>;.^; 

-..-....a..cuu^i^, It aicln't vork out tor v.?n because it vas not quite 
: ;'"7 V^^"' -^'^'"^ ^^v ^vent, ve. V. enie.] 

'^^-^ ■'ir.uteB ago it Icoi^ed ^ t.h.u,). 

-t ^':r.- K-ing to ov-n-thin. vas scheduled l.-av vi-. i^,. 
'■.v;M-p..i vr; ^nis one t'arth i'>b!-';rv>it„ ■ ' ' ' ' 

•I:5;:k-' 'he r^y -^xper : re;:' * '.iir,'. 

i j.Ilk , 

^ and the ra-ster scan vfr; .,:h 

try to do to help calibmie 
-n'. be conducted after the 
things go the way that , tha^ 
fl:t:ivities tcday, vhich 
* iv?"".! are really 7er>' %-er-/ 
' •■■erythir.g seeras tc be going veil , 

^-'^ "^^-'V' ■•• wry i-cod shape and" don't 
p.Trtcj.&i ;:r."blerfi or anything at a.11. 

. n 

t:;i'it, they're vorklng efficiently and 

; :: i 

■ r 

•i'"'; I' 

n go ,72 shape. Frank yc. al«Kt S'rnr.ari 7f 
i-s ■n?"r'-».-r.K '^-rt -^fth the Fhii i» S ,«5n;: t-diy if - - 


i. '. 1 cr: 

y hear-.! 

diy •Htu' nR. j_r, 

■rt'>.l -,. - Vf-:t.Td,'rV 

i ' . 

I (if . 

nr.. p.: > 

i- i .V, rcr the 

■•!r;t rh 

fi !■;:■■ a. 
ice f'ii 
pi a' J 

de cri: 

t;,ftt. ifiho: 

! ar.:- r>?pori<'d <,hn.t ^i^'i ! : 

^ft* 'iTi; >;Ri », ■ <dif ■=t:rtr'''?r., , 
^i'-;d v!'.!^.' and U.-yS-. i 
••-■P'^' '■■?:'rta:.t, r,n>-;' rej^.-sr s 

••■ . thfi-, va::i a gc:-d stop ♦ct-vn- i 

'^'-'V o?isically '.h'.:dr r r,:b,;.,en wa^v 

^ ■•■<' ^■-'^^•^^crart ar:d they ,;-.r;r-d ar.-.jnd 
?■ 'h*; gr. >;.;.■■; ^'.d eheoked it :'^Mt in a sirnu- 
crev f,;;,i '.'■■.•-y've perfcrmod it ivw , 


'd<.r, thfit ve srent our dfty in :,nu- 
r.-.i ;-:l-.aticri gcdng herr-, v-jngn 

' ;:1,c'i,:ed \ 1 1 . 

■ ''.•■r. ■■''■nn, add ; 

v!^:y - iv.'r jixid : Vf>rT 


Time: 17^33 CI?r, 3U:13 GET 


aid ve did. ve had a little 

,,,, of an eenter. We could of taken ^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^ 

•■^«^-^tr-^.e r;nde':;ous burns 'f.ave done it tomorrow and 

■■'^^::.'-!;::.r,:r?o r»ad an. do that .urn - - 

• Time: 1Y:.38 COT. 3h:l6 GfJT 


-'• in iu-opeilant ,.o^av ! Si f ' ■• """" ' n 

voubl be .-lightly off nominal fc^ f the proe.Jurea and do thai burr Ihirafte'-^r "^r^ ^^^^^ '-'-^ '^^^^'^^'^ to go 

^= Kood a shape as ve could possibly 
f;veriy0)^over here.'"'''' '''''^ "^"^ questions. Start vith 

.stroS?; are schediS'^frl .Kfl^lf ^^^^ 

^Sair, uinil after docking a-^^ ' f ^""^^ " '^^^ "-t to eat 

•..r.:" ■ '"^'"^ '''-'^■^'^ definitely eon. ,,,,01 in 

p-b^v vi;h"::n "'""^'"^^^ ^-^^'^ 

^b... th;t r r.r-f -^^^^^ :^ou loo. 

-..v.i,uu. i. ve. th.^.ett.r'^- t^.^^^ KrS^f 

i nave *■ vo » ^ ..^ ♦ j , , . , 

va^ seething ov.r -v^ ,^ ' . r^"^ ^^^''^^-^-^ -nr^'i h^-r- 

^■■■--^ -^^^u V..;.. cr^s m: ^■^^^■^^'^'■^t-i^Ming ... u v.. ... 

' ir 

al. three. 

t If." 
tl"/-, 5 J' 

< .,r \M% J"' V."" 

Time: 17; 38 CDT, GKT 

■(/if /■(•:> 

QUKRY Juat to add b bit of a question tn tl.iit . Wim ho 

doing Umt oxerciaing In the docking noduio? And, secondly I thought 
i heard then aay something about doing an Earth observation experiment, 
'i'hey did do part of that anyway didn't they? 

FRAffi Yes, they did part of it, at ieaat part of it and 

I r. not sure vnether they did, did tl-ie entire thing or not. But the 
P'irt where the napping car.era, the caxnera thet was involved I'm sure 
they 'lid. And yea they were e.xer-it v.oa exercising in the docking 

PAO Reg Charley. 

Q.l'BRY ( i-arble ) . 

''VTt:KY - locity. wss ihat in Apoiio or Zoynzl 

PPA-iK Weii, hard to ;-fty, It was a relative difference in ih-. 

orbit nlanes between the two vehicl'^s. 3o I-I wouldn't really be able to 

tell yuA whether it was Apolic or Foy.jz. 

how rn'j--h i f. v^s? 

%n you s;;ve any r.:jjr.r<eri; , rouni rnii'iber:! 
i ■ if . 

th" cut- 

^ *.Y.r: i-elativ? fcr^Uir-; of t.h-? two r« f H ;v f'^r .x;:-: 

u' bfhiU'i •r:cirE, a;v-3 h^'V Ta^ ' wk: are ga;:iing cri th-'-i' 

'-'^■'3-y. the, t-ho ftr.gular data, J i^it:':,- you'ii hnv" 

' ~ ; 1 dn ' t giv? It to yc'.; '5irec'.lv *.a/;e - 6 feet vf-r :.r->.end 

■i ',3' 

t by ^5,0': 

:h!it would ;?ive ycu th* 

'V\i':,". i7:'i 1 Of/1', OW 

K!{)"iNK - - data I gucF-a you'd have to take. I couldn't 

Kivi- it, l.f; yuu directly. You take the 6 feet per second and divide it 
liy ;-";»0i.'0, that vould give you the tangent of the angle. The range 
I ' pi !i::t. Hure , but it's probably ?.t least 3 or UOO niileH. If - You nay 
kri-.:'V - I rrjally don't knciv. V'e're still trailing and catch - - 

QilKBY Catching up. Even before vfi> ~ake our final approach 

i'.. then, vc're still catching up gradually. 


(<!/EBY At abo\it hcv -zach per orbit? Do you knov? 

.'HANK I really dcn't. I Just could tell yoxt that the 

tra,' '-"ctorie;- are sc cl.oye to the rlarir.ed thoajh, v. sat ve'll be 
right. vht.T'? expected to be vhea ve ottirt nanfjuvering tori^rrcw. 

;i'JF,HT I vould like a little bit r.ore detail about the Earth 

cbrie'rviticn.'s. Vnut they did ar.i vhit they didn't ds, if you do know. 

rl'AriK OKay. Xite first that's sorieluled early in ttie 

iuy '-.■<!;:. n :,1 ione. It vnfj ,1iiSt i:-ir't.ei ccr.pletely . Tne seconJ pass 
v<i:; t-hat care up acres:; the ?:^utr.ern Pacifit' ai'ounci 't«v ZealHjid, 

r ■■. t h r.".ciric 'in*.:; vfi", cc:'!*,.-;. t D'f ths l'nit(i''i States. 'TfiC'rc 

*.v.- i-HV.:'^ to that, is a vi5-.;ai u-i-Kcrvatl ori vith consents, and 

•h': other i;:" phot ;:gr&phy . i'he ihc* -.'t-rfiphy , I',--, fairly certsin vns 

Vnether v-r net thf 

;^,\'r:Hi *-.a3 or va;;:, r '•:■;-;'.•<?-';?.:;. 

FP;j;r. Vas . Vnet--,'?r' '.^r net tl.e virual cbfervattcn vas 

.--•tc-i, i cen't tel"! yoi;. :u.:'k, io ycu - - 

■r--l''LT I'r. zuv- 'f^s. Ti^e Insit report t.hey had vas 

<rtid that Teke and Vane--* v&re both vorXing on that pass and Deke 
■:■ be doing the rAppirg p^sss »ind Vance vas tc be aoxng tho vinua] 

'la' ,^AS5 vo'Ud havo t:?;^;^ - vill n^iv^? bctn don^^, 
F.Y r thf'iTr T':' you can tc-il r.e rU:>ijUt ■'hf» fir" t 

t va;\ i*?letf:'i, vh'it tf.?y vc-re =-_' --«ci to hnvc dc-rit^ thr^nt 

■■';.! It va;; 'in '•:^.■^.^r]f pat.r •■or-ing aer T'^i 

■t/: 1 up t;;e fHBter''i ;*:'n',-: d . Ai:d it ,Vu!3t hoppcn*'! tlint !t - 

•■anc" I i-''d bc;"v:!;" : ", ■■'•i-' ci tuer lev or high ; -tf,)i--' ! 
■i:f.uu--*~r>"d t;: -=lt*u.» da.' vh<?n vt' get i-n'nd *i iit*;- 

r vhe prcbii". :• v«r ri ^-h.-r* pRSS r,ui rr!-:.) t^rd 

h F<?,^ cn i " , ■ ;:'V lav . 

.g, ny-c • : : inn- 

'hat i' 

uUt;RY Anoth';;- 3i;r?tir,n on •,h<' pr:be. rrt'ru!:u,^ t!v<' 

pi-oblrr^ hadn't been fixed, th^r. the r*;'nde270us a-il i';!!g vuuld 
/■■i:-" I'-'-n H :ailure, -hnt r-^ht; If ycu ;v;;-:i],dn ' t Jiave fix^d it. 

;■!■;,■<•: We]:;, if cc;ubi:;.dt hivf: gntdC!!i thff j;r-d-~''' <;Uit .tf 

^- 'if, ; f r We ;u:'v:ud r.'i-/-' rfr i?^ U:i<^d nsvl duekfi - - 
:;v"bY ^t'''U : r'r;dc- vu'.U'd ftnd d.c ;a^':.': . 


A.'I'CV (fKSA) \V.y''C/2 

'i'imo: i't'Jfi CI/P 3V:i^3 GET 

FRAriK But we couldn't have transfered. 

Kv.. ^'"^f ,n "'"'''^ ^'^^"^ been one Of the main parts of the raission 

being eanc-elled, for tne 3a.T.e - sitalliar problems. Ca« you tell us of aiiv other 
'lTrf/!!r!.-:/'^'^"'"' ^^-^ ^^^^'^ cor^itted to such a najor 

...^i^!"^^-- ^ell, the inertial platform flev on one of the 

provicus ftignts - iunra- flights, at ieaat parts of it. Sor.e of the 
ejros ..ew on - and they nay have been froa Apollo lU also. no' ^-uro 

ir:L;tr:hr;:;he"\K:^r?.^i!^ - ^ — p^^^:;;:^;ho... 

.H,. rS'.,... question. With the - Stafford va. .aying 

, er> er..>.a^a ana you did scrap scne of the Joint octiviU.-n, 
; -''^^"^ ^-eover.^d in the nin,ui.ator7 lie seen-^d m;rT,ri~.d 

•• wouldn't have scheduled U that vav. At'd in" 

": training In - i:i a very high fldelUv and ' r-y f. 

.-r,o.;- Hr; renlistir; as possible, bu^' you can't si;.',iat.» ' h^^ '^oj-^^ 

suspect -ha". |.hr;3e aort things kind or got ^.he vav - 
■.:'rtl:^^, rw;, ^h.t - ,,.e,, ti-:.line. and all ' 
sv-f;';. have r'e'?n trfiir;ed for 

c.,;..~.cnau-. >.en cr.or.unicat i 

' Hr-ow '.;;er have - - 

ASTP (ur.A) PC32D/1 

Timo: 17:49 CDT, 3^:28 GET 

^'■^^''^^'^ "*ve the aatroneiuts and the -osjonauts been con- 

fKnnlcatingj,-ith each other? And if 30, what iid they t?ilk about? 

LITTLrTTON No they have not ccuL-n'.inl cated with each other vet. 

*<'':'ry not vithin range for the WT to vork. 

^^^^'^^ ^ heard that the cosznoriauta have ooraiinioatpd w^<-h 

.JulluU^;. Can you tell zse ar.y thing about that? 

LriTL;7rc?< i er . They did coravjnicate. It vas kind of e - 

ies. They -lid com-onicate. I did?;'t list^^n to the conversation because 

haprenea to be busy at the time but it vas received and interpreted. 
And It vas the Kind of thing you eight veil expect. It vas, you knoi^ 
«.n£rat'ila'.ic.r-.3 on your succe3sf>jl Uunch, m-^i ve're glad to have - to 
see yoj up nere and so forth and uc on Juat. \'er/ Just pleasfuit 
ere^^ingis^as if you net somebody ar. the street alkost. 

5^/5?}'- ^^^'^ i'lea vhat distance apart thev vere? 

L . 'I T I,' '."c . 

Lee Hiekisari. 

' ^'Sve tvo questionr. The first one is can you teil 
i^jil in statute niles and ov,er vhat part of the Earth 
"'ill probably take place? 

;k>v-. Th" S'i.yur is ■^rbl:lng a*, abo'jt. 12S ; > 

ce clo«'; in at n :^ tat ion' 

naut ic'ii 

^ e 

■■■-•^ a? 

icft nn'i Into 


Lfejce rlfice ever riiri;;!^'. 

-HI.' accy.iKg :t'jf'j.f c-;,;;*,;.! ta^e place cv^r centra.! 
•■^.i-J takp riace a iitt";o efirlier than that, d-^pen^lnff; /-ts 
:ey *ire a-^le to *;st p.,.Fi;ion anri get their sy-;t,ems 

f :i 

■y Ml fit, ^ •■■r,:-V: 

i-;*. ru:-.;ier. 
.'■-t ."iT offL:e tell 3 

r r- ,. . >. w ^ ^ ^ 

v":vc;'.. abr;U':. that c.-r ;i';y i n r:'n'f;t 1 on^', 'giirbje 

■■ f-* r'-^ V'.i 0 1- ^1 .-^ 

"iS" 'it? lavi 1 r. 

1 -e 

■ t 'i e 

:■■(• ;:rt;S',.- 'ibiy involve:; 1;. t- 
--.,»R3ur<*r-'?nt? . N'c'V I asr.'.sr.f 

len*:l f*c f >;[:'f>r ire?.' 
f'-r the-. 'Via iiov ave ttipy bf-«»rj 
r -■ ^^ 'J; t Vf'i^'^rc''^ p, ^.•■•--^ 
r. .! ;; v'i 1 c?! fi', ^ ■' !, re " 
:'.:'>t ;; 1 i -) « j r: 
that th'.ey i'l^vf fi pret ',y ^-c-.; i 

-'n^Jht tne -.iork S r.*; r-.,-laif, a,; vr.a„'^i thiv. refer ^o*: 
■'f^fty- f xper :?:,e:,t 3 that viU be Rrft».:tt-: hi 

••■y^-i -^'v, i-ivN' i^iii flcftnt vay by cir no 

•iiiK able 

imA) FC32D/? 
'^z 16/75 ' '''"^ 

— .,.9w..;r6ft. Have to ,5.. a^<i ifi nome 3t.-i = »-%~ 

^ -Jon't knov ex.cti; t^f'?'"^ People anr.;:" 
\ , -^^^ the DM is^.: to u.v if. 

'^ they're the * «»«sureDe-i:!. 

'nti ; 

1 ! /-^ 

.^ they're the ^n.asureme:; s Zl^r"''^''^^^^^^'- 

»ere ,r»efic' r-«»- t -1. 

. «^iie v^U'v!^?fr^^'^ ^^S^* over ,:ere 

.^^'^^^^ r^riod. it turrs^a^; f.^f'^' back to 

"■.-•■>• 7 ■■•■'^'-^ ferio'l och-='dtii -! cne - e^r.. ■ 

T v-ea-'' ' ^''■"''eral hour;;. "~ 

J-?' ^■'■^PeraU^i^rffC^' "'''"^^^^^^ about th*> -.-^^ 

-^'^ -■^^^ul. and vhBt'.V': 

4 . 

■ ■ i'ft?-.SS CX)NFERFNCE PC3PF/1 
?/, 16/75 

,,,,,,, "^^ - ^^'^'^ '•'i'u. 


';':^..r:'^'-, that v./'^;; 

. ^ i<i\>',. r'.g ,r:av th-"' ^• 

re any j,^^ n;oro i 

■■■■ ^ ■ .: ike *.,h&- c." j'T'* ~ '■■■^ 

•.^'jpf:- the r.-."^;::. .:;;'V^''''- 

..... ".'*' - ' " ■ ■•'t>k: V. .. '■. ... -■I.J 

'VimM VI COT. 3^ : 'SEl' 

Q{i-.-^Y Two or fr.ree hours ago, Ton Stafford cane on iv.d 

.^i.i -v^^'t. vr.u vcuUn't believe vbftt's going to happen - what Just hap- 
;':.ri..d'hfTe' ■ And there vas Just a little 1 r.' . Could somebody 

explain *h&t? , . x„ 

ThiriX you underi; 1 and tnatt 

Ycu're right, and I didn't ^relieve when he told ne , 
:-.'-;'.'"Vur^' I really do 'axideri>l%r.d it. Ke had a - he was doing an 
lj^.'.„'y.ll,^]:t vhere he had a sanple that was located ' - in a - the 
'.'.I*./ r'J^ll-pr * i.iK" a Gcace - kind of a .thereos Jug, and when he took 
."!.r-Hc.'.'"^s"aJid there was a scjnple already in it very cold. Apparently 

v'. the -ap off of it ^Jither ~ and he said that he aiid Yan-t' 

r.;'.';;! v^-r* '*r»ning i- out. So I. don't know whether they tugged too 

'tner cr riDt there was 'i 

ttle orcsaure that had o-x 

■• ree::o:i or nther vhe:i ';.r' took 'the cap '''ff, the 

lit <i-..'r.g witii ac-ne snow an 'J 

' d 1 ' tt 1 ice part! c '\ c .- ■ 

h ars th' 

nere vs-i f^' s or* 
^.■v tin,-,.:, ir. 

aid ask hi" another ,v,i«Htion 
light h^'d puUe'j '.oo hard ; 
"'"■;>ro:' ler. v; tii it,. Ani rculy 
r-v.^* VI.--. phn-;t th--' ext.'i-nt f 


ASTP (USA) PC 3^.^/1 
imn/''^^ CW. 3k -.38 OST 

'.ITTLfri-ON J material is- - 

- ^ don't km.v what it - vha^ -^'f '^-^P-'^r^^'is experiments. 

hanj^^lJ i^r:!::;:/"'^^^^^^ ^^^^ this 

rr; ^r!:^, '-^^ bu-igit i:/^";f:,^J} that the probe 

^'^^^ vhc did, ^" ^travberry vaa a bag 

Hp,>ar^ntly got stravbe^-^^ J'^^",^: "^'^ ^- ^irink b^gs brok. 

-e that thex g.t the^^ind r^I^.^r.-fl"'^ vindj^s Ind 

.^.ravcerry. ---Jir. e..a .ance st.iij. looked like e 

■<-.'f:.n: » .--^--cii^e. 

h,„ been -e^^/";,. t.-'' '^^ '^''^'A bat It r„y 

■■■'!t.:<! ' "'^■••..rsatio- betvom the-,; 

^-TP (USA) K3P-F/2 

-f-^:- .',atun reports that vAy ' ^^^^ "^^v thing. And -hei/ 

- ^ tz^y ,.0 recall h^.e rr!!^"" ^^'^^ '^'^ --.v ha. 

L Ja^ri,.. :r^j; ^rr- "° 

: •-he,*,*!,,, not onl^'f,.; .""f -S'."'^ to ^.^wgif" 

...... r::t.^«»,u 

lin&t 16:03 CW- , 

7/ J 6/75 ^' 3^:^3 GFT 

•'•'^ those Mr^. '^-'-S that and we J ^"^^^'s tim^ 

even if . ... , ^^ease 3-=. m : '^^''^ -Pei. "^^'^ vai,t 

.r-.:. s : --^^^ ...... 

-..-n-i ..... . - 

f (, ..... 1 „ ^ " • ' - 


-'ttiK that, ve'vo ^-^^cre this ^h*/ conduct ' an • ^ ' 

■ --air'js- 





."• ^'"'tol'r .... to ..^ 

. ---^ ^o. to...-- ^^^^ 

. , ■ ■ that i "'i- the. oo-u" ' 

■ Vr p-'t!;' ™ »t„.i. 

"^^"tain, about th-- \ ^^'^^i tu>ns , tha.- u 

'-«^^-^vo.:, roil^v;.;- ;* /" t^ rr.Pared tr^;'!' ^f-^"^^- . Ar-i 

^•-t ,. lhi:.sfii ftv,,,,., ^ -'^^ Soviet CO-ti-n-' . 

Proeedur... c,:-;^""'- ^^^i^played on th^^ ^"^'^^^ 

fA-,.'. vhat. 1-;^, '-^ ^'^'^ punches i* 

" '■■'3^3 hare you r-+ 'r-"' '"^ 

hate ' ■ ■'• • 

and vf^eneve-- C'^^^^'"^ """"^ ''''^ 

"'art ; i-^':?' 

•■' - - ■.a . ., r-^ 1 1* ■! ,. - - - ^ i u }_ * 

-■-V , ^-■^ to the , 

; ^- ■■ ^ that 

, , --<ay. 
t.h<it vouid re 

'.if: ' 

le cTev 

;Oi;!t r.. 

Vi': (if; t»"^.. 

V .,,at i-eiax, they fix;:- 
get en that ? 


t r-^-r,. Ves . T^-ft, ,J .'V have been 

V-'.-^^-^n.iv.iy betve.n ^"'^^ > ' ^i-ce it vis 1^^^!^^ 

^- these .'e?.:^^'^- '^^'^^ ^^^^^ - on - j^^^/^^^^ei center. 

K -o s ieep and v<ika -.^ 

■e plan? ^cti 

„ Are t f> .-^ 

wv-.i- S3 aoccr 


^'-'^^iulea, yep. 
^^-rk lo^d Of ^v.„^!?^--*^ '^^^-^ to the Sovur n.^v, 

-for.auta, -^r ^ ^'-«h as the w^rv > ^''at 

r;'A;i;.; ^'^t? or ^esa? ''^^^ -"^oad of *'h» 

■■■it ft , ^'■'it's a littJe . 

. . •' •■■■■ --at rs--^ .4 to 3av. Tr 

::: /-?^-^^tiy relate:i"u;^^;';::t-': "^^"S a iot £re """" ^''^ '^^^ . 

^ ^'-^Pr^^^ion Of "^'^ a buav as f"? '^^^ that, r 

-nauciing\h; nL^rMi:^ ^^-^ ^n'c^^S^-^V^-t in 

^ notlee. i. .... .. . ^ '^e, ,hat nuch 

' ■-■•i iJi w 

J-"alt and conductl 
t'.j do. 

AHTi- (U;iA) IC^m/ii 

Vim*-: iPioe COT, 3hthb GKT 


ground to air that we've untton "v,„ 

-.d it va. Just before : '^•^oK^l'^yTl t^^^lji'' t ' transcript 

1 .just vondered if that is 'he c2e f t.^v ! broadcast ho«,. 

rrograms to the Soviet uilan ' ' ' transcript, for 

* >-nere s a five n:nute toss a-Ti thi.- *v,;^, <^ 

ri vf .Tiinutes. -hmg :c. - cover;:. 

■ -^ oi' a^tlvltj:?'^ ''''^ '^^^ ^^^^ ^^-^ 

;-/'^u Esan in preparing for thntl 

In actually the^'j klrvi of 
■'"H , : could r^ko Si: fstlrate ot' *.;;at 

■ i * , Tor 

, f-^ri-^ri" =Jr: the day vherc ve do the ex- -^--^ ^■■•■■■> 

ASTP (USA) PC321/1 

l^V l^;}^ ^'*^53 GET 
mte: 7/ 16/75 

=--^=-„-re. - ~ 'y^-^-^ or the highly active Joint activitv 

'^i^R: '^^-'^ ^" and then - 

■ '-^ '"'''-^ yesterday? ^ '^"'^i activities, 

■■:,jnvoived in the shlft^ " " ^"^^ -^^tivitioi 

..'■■•r: p.'; ^"'^ -^^y vo.t, re able t^. .... . . 

y^^AXK V: "f:'--'' • ^f^-" -in. -hey bp? ~' " "■'^^^■'^^y 

-trene points --u"'.. 7- . ' • S\ f'^^--^ ^--^^ "i^e. , nJ:) 
^--^'^'^-^ the prel^^cr^'^Jr^^f^ 't^^- -'^ - CIA expert, v 

t ■ 

you : 


-ot &t all. anything Iihe -his? 

" - ^-^-r^:- .::::rthe .^r^::..;?.'^^"'^ -isu^ 

arvi I. Mad-ir' ~ throughout th; ^^h^ 

ru^-l : -P^*^ that the Hu..ia.. v ' 

^"^A:;k - , ' - -'-'reiKa ground stat^orj^!^ 

*:'e rr..b.ens cf ne^otia-^c ' " ^ ^^^-^^ that - that u^* 

^''^i^^' tor ®- that vo^Ud probablv n.i ll"^;* 

f^^re ripxib'U*v coverage that theyspt u t 

vn'.'. i • '''^» '-t It ffliat give theni 

ASTP (USA) PC3^17^ 

Time: 18:13 CDT. 3)*:=^-^ GET 

Date; Y/ 16/75 

' V?- '^""^ their u:illaleral flights. 

, , ... "^^«» ^^'^ '^-^t locking aight take pUre as -uel, 

vi"^'"'- ri*iia late. Bv tvnv sir* — ; - < ^ , > . , 

"'i^iyV By (garble)' '-'--'^^^'*^-'^"< ^'^^^^^ ^* '^^e pUce 

'"'^^'f^ ^^ay again 

lio, - !io I ca:s** think of a?iy w-*:,' it cculd t».K»^' 
I our not goirip: t o nove burn tiree^ -vi'' 

let it -51 •■■■ra'.e . 

ou're :-io?. to nove burn tines ud7 

« -7 - J.', .just i-;g,tt and ve want to 

'^■^■^ "^''^^ fMght rl.a:i tine rnv, a- vh 

oi- r:t^ 

, , , , " " — " ■ ■ .-..V jii-y scne'iu, at'tor 

..'•'J^'*- s'''jr.g to get to that. 
; Mrs: ;-£-xt«int :-arkK are scheduled after 

the jrev - it's at - .iayJipht 

■ ^-'^^'^P^'^-^S ^^^^ 3extftnt r:Arks, so that va. the >uu:vsv. ' 
• ne - tr;ere vas cne r^revious questicr that had to do with vhen the fruv. 

interna to ^ive the -4. ro":^:~^- " f " i ^*'*"«^ ^'^H, ve wouia 

. : ^'^^ uDc-cmg, froK both Houston, and Mo';,-ov 

'.nen t!ia;ie tvo control centers ver'- rea-^v ' a*-^^ * v *.« , ' -f^s-.o^. 
..»,... - ■ J rcaa,v g.ive that i,.0, and that ^'To- 

.'i.^.,, „„^.,^,,^, ^■rr-'-'^"^-- ''^^^-^ ^'i^- fJ-OK -hat roint cii 

" - reaixy up to the tvo ccj^aiid^j's ' io 

;;■„:. i"-*'^- vt is aot Knovn. 

'-he Mr - for the fir- - 
i''-r" th^ J"i rs* visual sitinp-,, 
For th.^ riext^int. Gitin^j. 

:^-^'''''''„ - - «^'ch be loo anal! fcr r 


time: I8:l6 cm'. ik-.^Q GET 


'^xvnnK you're still talking no sooner than MC2, 

For - - 

I,. !.->'; vi,.!uai siting 
For sextax^t siting vhlch vould b. toe .:.all ^o^- 
' ^-^"'^ uiir.oL.t nn optical ir.5tn.J«:-n-c . 

' '--'l-''^^ W^^-'^^ ''^^-'^ '-^-'^ other spacecraft? 

curing - riftPr '-'-k*- *^inrii f-i-- > 

Aft'T rpi , after TPI a:, i TFS? 
It vould bt^ _ 

- - you knav t,,,: tr-.cking is done vKh -h- 

. ' - -'^y^l -^ee sc.-: reflection -n.,,.^ 

■ f^-^^^' -'^^^ ^''^^ ii^c.rn what the s,.r:\.:'-- l^^l^ ^l.,.. 

r ina; :.m?e ' ' ' ^'^^^ ir. there 

I f-avr the cosno-aat s scheduled to v-^p ..^ 

^ pe.t.;i;i in"d rd^::r:j^5; ^-e. 

P..tur.ed in the othe^-.^ir;: ^J^Z^t't r'^' 

; ^ ■ .r.-ct:..,,, a.nd we're mov^.. rn'tr.^'it.l: '^"f ^^■■^•^"^^ 

.'v-v ... w.;.^ .Th. V ' ^"^"^ P^nicular thin?-: ^ .v, m,.. 

- th.y are both awake at the ti.... ' ' 

1^' "''''-^ '^S-^ther onc-e we're .Jocked? 
.1 tnere are not farther question.. th^rX 

AST? (U3A) PCi,8-f:/] 

Tir..: 03; 56 COT, 169:36 GET 

Date: {/2?J'i^ 


; ctr:e problems vith the ^oa^d^^uii: ^^^'^^ " had 

ncpe that uc've allowed alecS^-fi; T ^ <^onmur.i cation system, 
sur. ca;. st.rt right at 7-to !J ^^^caeek that out to Eite 

- ...p our , ^^^^ l^^^ 

^^^r -inaM, i^::": ^^'^^^^^ « ^alr an hour? 

ri^r -^.i^"^^'^ -q^^;;; S'J,:^' ff.^' <^-^^tion. th. tv 

ino fii,-. J,,... -^^^^ stay the sf^e *t 

y:.u kn:,v vi-,- .r,.,.-, :::\:'-:\ •■•^--e - r.:>-t <,r their 

^ .-K--.. -a:, probably h^ve 

■ '■"7 0:1 - r:-P!,^^: 


■ ^-'5 f;.-ir:;vfLr" 

A; t nr.-. 



Time: 08:56 COT. 169:36gET 

Date ; 7/22/75 

that ve can come by. As far as spacecraft technology per se there 

during this particular Z.tonZi 

omiy ^" °' co^lcations nK>de during the SHr^il eJ^' 
of trie others have mentioned soaethin*? he's do! ^-^ 

ma I wondered if vou cn,iiH ^^JTl ^ SsiUTTLE 

"hat r»e 6o„ thr„i! « " » ■f^"" 

,1-. p?''?"^'^ . "^^ Crystal Act; v.tion , jBcaue.. t .k.-.j. 

f 1^ (ISA) Pci.s.rn 

'o rind out h<o. .7 ~ ftiture ti„t 

that . things Uko • ^° ^^^t 

PAO ^^uttie. ^ ^^P^^t to iMtialj^'\ ^^''^ ^^^^t of, 

.^^rT;.y Hipht here ' ^^^^^ that 

-if "^s the I:-.-.. ...o' 

....... ... .. . ..- --"'h.^vZ:";::''::'' ^^■■r^^^v-.^l noy . 

'-: , •■•■^y report - t,nt t 

i' ''Hi- . ;■ ' "J-f-^-i^ 

"1 " , 

, y-.i. 

«rternoon change of 

W« i^^^^'^^ we have Astronaut BoP 

"^^^'/c^OM. Franjc. ^^-^^ to tell you ,td 

.H.rtTrienn.. ^«^^^:H^t, we Have .s.^''^ _ ^ ^^^^ ^ 

TV at ©ay soanu • ^ ^ ve Know, ^ ^^itace on 

t- ^os-e x-ray '^^-^ ^ experiment. « ^,5 vorN'-"^: , g yecoxjpir>6. 

^ ^-'-^ .ecu r-t.t^^^':- - ■• 

. - .t<..-j'i'-- 

ve ,v,a*. . ^ 

n t ■- - ^ .\U'^ ■* " * T'if'.K*^' 


ASTP (USA) PC19-A/2 

Time: 16:59 CDT, 177:37 GET 


t'nd Canada - for an area - another one that Coasteau considers priin^. 
And they ve re go in., to try to icoX at that, l-he gx^s are roal enthusi- 
astic abcuc visual observations from - froa space, primarily because 
of what ve started out, back in S'^ylab I. concentrating so on. They 
-they feel that they can really get sose good - good aata, here. And 
it seems to be working out pretty veil. 

LHTIJiTON Okay. In te'ms of ether things that aay be of 

interest to you, ve had the vivea of the 3 crevnen visit the vievinK 
roon>, today. Our people put together a video tape that vas played 
tacK - television. They vere quite interested to see that. And ve 
let the crevKnov that their favorite luiieB vere there, in the viewing 
rc.rn. n.a after the tape vas finished, tne crev had a fev pleasant 
words to say to then. And J'n «ure they're looking forward to bein« 
bacK and Delng with their fanilie.. Let's see. I guess that's pret'tv - 
t ^^^\:-f^'y one thir.g. with regard to today. Today va3 - ' 

i thirJ^ was kind of a tough day for the - 

A3TP (USA) ?Ci<9B/l 

Time : V{:Oh COT, GET 177:^2 


I ITPLETON I gueos that's - I would liko to say one thing with 

regard to today. Today was, I think, kind of a tovgh day for the ground 
find for th" crew because we made an awful lot of changes to the pie- 
flight experinyjnt plan becA*:-8 of a lot of things that have happened, 
Darticalfi.-ly the x-ray problen. I think the erew h^n done just an out- 
standing Joh of being able tc cope with these changes. In Skylab we 
were fortunate encagh to h'.ve a teleprinter, where when tne crew was 
ar,leep at night, we put up all the changes - our entire Flight Plans 
1.;st - While they were asleep, lliey got up in the norning and al. they 
h:id to do was pick up this piece of paper and take a good look at It and 
we'd answered ar>v questions Ihoy had And. they were ready to go to work. 
B,if thi-^ «is«ion uninfi the CSM .as ve are, ve don't have that luxury. 
W»\.avc to update the c rev's Flight Plan changes verbally by having them 
-ark up experiKent pads. And ve -.iid r:u awful lot of that today, in fact, 
did mre thaji v,> naid we vcuH do pref light. I think it's just - ^^'d 
iix^ rompiir.ent the crew •>n the way they responded to tnat . mey 
■^■'■j"'./v*^r/^ond" 1ob fur u..^ tcd^y- Incidentally, I think the guys on tn-? 
t:-v;;nd di'i g-- ' " ^ 'ob lodsy in nui Ung that stuff together. An;i I th:n/. 
• v.^ "Jm — ' ' - • r,-.r-a,M-.' rr'-'v n^rrv 'it this point ' 


live thfit star 

tet.tir 'jn . : '.hitiK sor.-;»bcdy 
d'. that so I von't cc-nr^ent 
think vhtit ;yr«*.ty nuch nurrij 

••:uch a^id It, Fj-uik. But I 
thni. it Right be 

hav': 'in ex'i V ri :'"nt tt\" -vo 

■•tti^i t-a::nU' on no:s'.' gr?; v; tat ictial 
!., .. ; y en th?: 'i'-'C?; 1 r. 'i'liiic 

r.rinnpr. ;-r a,n-~rnr*:. i:i going 

• . tf 'I'cti vf'-ly fu"! vn-JM =ine •■ i';*; 

-;m -hen d'- 3^:0 d"gr'-r ntion in 
!n-:tfi' i<-n ve'ro pcinp tc .Jettison the 
V- * 1 1 bo 1 n,^ nt 'il-'n,i'.. degree 

n g^vc *he '» ■•^lii•ht .h-'Ua-V 
nn-- - vt'i-e f;j:in siibili-ing 
jint<"n;;H r. ini en it, ve hf-ve a tran?^ 
Wi- ' rc* »r^dr,? to br? talking from 

ASTP (USA) PCl<9B/2 

Time: 17 -.04 COT. l87:^2 GCT 

ji tKot rtfttft And the PI '3 looking 
the CBH .0 the DM and back ^^/'^^Iresaed bJ\o. the dist^ce 

^■or chEunpes in the gravity field that are ^"^^^l^^J J , Roing to do a 
,-°Lfen =S and DH - CSH 'f ^^J^^.^'^^-^'Z l^ZZJ. »Moh vill 
stand-off Bin^uver - » DM-1 , ,„ay from the docking modulo, 

put the co»mnd and service » f »^„f °tSS position. And d«r- 

hov thst range varies, l^.at'a aoout - 

ASTP im^) PCU9C/1 

Time: 17 -.08 CDT, 111 -Jtl GET 

LITi^I^rrON - - the, ve'll Just be ranging essentially on the DM 

s/id seeing hcv that range varies. That's about it. 

PAo Okay, ve'll open up to questions. Lydia. 

ou-rf Could vc-a describe vhat happened vith the electro- 

phoresiB' "xp-eriment, the - I thinK it was Tom Stafford was talking about 

it leaking? 

CRIFPEN Want ae to do that? 

LirrbrON Y-a. W^y don't you ta/.-^ it. ^-.^n i th 

^in?Fri Okay I don't knov hov tnany of you are familiar vith 

that particular experiment in detail, but it consists of son« ^^f^/ ]^^^ 
ar<. put on the 'ievice ar.d v. hook up aor.e hose, on either end of the co.ur^, 
^ vh.n vou t^;.-n it on fluid flcvs th:-ough the col-oinn back nto the unit 
and back kround reci rculat? ng. one of the places where the unit 

piuKO into the oolarji apparently vas some of this fluid and 
to ?he point where it had collected in a rather - in a large, globule 
?.r^ anra;par^ntlv ve were not ..ble to get a good seal. And that was ~ 
J^:"vS tSlr^blen and it was probably - probably due to this particular 
:;iurvn that had attached tc it. only have one rnore sa:.plo 

Hnd Ihr. - we run two differera type^ of s^^le, and the only one we 
:;;v^ d.^e. not us. the fluid at .11, so cnce he clean, it up and put h 

Uu7 l.«t «ar.pie. y.u kn.v. M.e prc-lde. will not: " f , "^r^, 

tr,^ big«.-3' probien.i. yu.nt tr%'ir.^ to cIchi. up tfse mess and the .oss of 

'hat -^Jinple. 

A'tf-iv v;an thet the 'lerri'iTi ♦■xperiitcnt ; 

So, that'f^ not; that'., the Mar^shall electrophoresis 

■■lAO-il. , , 

i;-; Bruce Hicks, ochr;riy. 

^jirpY 3cb, I'n n.- al 5 that f tunil i ar vi tr. tn.." . What are 

the liquid- that were ' 

Z)f J what were t'i^- 
CH'FrU; The liviUld 

tr-'vnsport whAt.?:ver sanple they've 
Vi-ol cf'iia, I i'tslif'V-' wa,:? tnit; - 
vHTtr, not far.! 1 i f.r en:^-sh 

j i ;.p.a V what typ<2 of lh:;uld:-.t 
a Puffer unit that is Just there to 
got in there, like thty were using 
vfifi th'^ Ust one. And it's primarily 
■V»tfil' tell you vhat It va3, but it's, 
-^.vj--'.xi- kfti'i af thine thit ycu can drink. 
' "'what «h:y,t. - you '~ay there's^ a pretty good glob of 

^^•4.;:..-., ■ V. 'i- I - ?;o, I - kind of hard for me to 
.pu^ntiV; '-^^tV it'd tV 'n tr.^ ..rd.r -.f' pint, the thing doe. not hold 

^ud. - .:u.h liquid. 1 v.uid, you knew, ir. .pace u^^. there, e pec.a.iv 
.: !l, o. ... a bni-h <-f nth. r - we're having a lot of oonacnsation In 

probr^blv •^bout th-. nite of your fist; sor^-wner.- on tftat ....t fr.rt 

''i^- ^h-*^ any Ml .V^..H .i^htmr- ^''.^iayt laer. w.. 
i^ctte tftik ttbcut thlf in the previous ;?hi fi . 

, ,.,.„ ,,,,,,,,,, ,,,, 

7/22175''^''°^ COT, 177:i.7 GEM 

^ome - We had t:ied to look one oS of K.^w ^^^^^'^ 
i've lost track of days, but we - " yesterday. 

creu toloo. at ^^^t^t^ '^^l^T ^./^^^^^^ that ve ask.d th. 
a specific call on it. but I bel ^.e ^ ^.>v ^^ ^ ''^'^^^-e^ 

there^waa Kind of bad^^eaUer tn l^^t t tllZ'^' '^'^ ''"^ 

^o. vhy1; it 3cheduief f;;'th;'^n^J"' '^f in orbit, and If 

acqtiisiuon and sobs other stfttir^.? ' ' * '''^-^ ^ ^etveen 

except that ve vant toX it'^\J"'f^,''t '^^^^ P^i^i in the orbit. 

to photograph the docKin^ ^'1^;?' .'r^^^ requirements ' 

^hat 31^, to do is to hfv. .^^C"-^!/' ^'-'^y- other thing 
tne I« Jet because T thfnJ. it'v'n'i!^ ' ''^^^ " "'^^ ^^"^ ^^^^ta durin^r 

fir.t ti.. ve've 10.. . Jf^^rrT operation, it-, 

; var>^;ard h,, fe.n roleis.^ -~ f?^ « ^.^^neuver . Because 

^ position such that v. '-u- ' '''^^^^^'^ tack to Sydnev. 

;:--'^^;y ^co.p.e of .i^ute^ ".r- h.'" r^Vfrf ^ - ti.e ly 

^■-'^r th. r-i,dle of where the V...;::,:/::..:::''"^'^-^^' ^^-^ Je-.ti.on 

WUERy I v-v»r.r irT. coverage win be, 

^-^^e, What ..e Do^pi;: 1, l^;; ^-^^fy^Jn . little .ore i^ 

EJ'D Or TAP!:; 


Time: 17:13 CDT, i77;52 n^v 

7/22/75 -*-<'0^ Oii 


ianguage what this DoppJef trl^kW f^nf f''^^*^" « ^^"ie aore lay 
to take pl^ce tornorrov ^^^"^^^"6 ^'^ing is aXi about - that'fgoin^ 

Earth's gra-/ltational field 5f J^'"'' ^^"^ ^^^'^^^ s^all variati ons in f>.. 

CRim2t ft 1 - "'^^» you Sob? 

a perfectly .ymr^etri^ai bo^ l^f^: Ti^T^' ^^^^^ '^n is 

;-n.... the. .3ing i>:,,p.,, .^^f^ f!^"^^'^ - end they 

- you're speedir.?. it..g ,„ ^ . l'"-^^ "^''i' P'^^^'^e soneti^e. d<>ter-- 

^"^^ -^^^rtbS -Si,:;?::?^^ ^'^^^^^^ 

i- -hat 

tvo vt>i;icler vary 

t r. r ■ 

Ire i 

- -- ?''t. thr:>v 


• ^ ^t'5 ilkv so 

'V'-" - -^Uot ~ ve have 

-...■^- rr..:. 

■.^.:^ everything rhnt 

'^'■t.,ributab.e to jet n^ngs 
. g^^ens th^y csui sttrib^fe 

? r.-' ty hnjyy ' - ; 

■^'U- ti;u': 

exj'O V 

I If- 

r i r /try ; ■■ ; - 1 , 

V i : 

^ vy 

;! f ; - ; 



Of i 

.■ ^ h 

k,n„;v :rey 


't-?= Via ^srv;yicr 

C'?; (1 ;: " g 


Tine: 17:13 Ci>T, 177:52 GET 





temperature in the coianand module Varies quite a bit from the vali 
to the niiddle and so forth. So vhen ve give you a tsmperatiixc, it's 
of a niddie road kind of thing. I'd - It mig^it have got up to 80 
couasami joc-iule but it's kind of difficult to say. 

yt'TJ heard any mention whether the astronauts 
the oil slick or the tropical stona and if you haven't, could you 

MZ- a lilti? bit abctj 
CHIPr-EH The cil 

iedge there verc none r 
i fi c cv.f to look a' . I 
tropical st ons ques? ti on , 
3?EA:L?:R 1 ;ian't rer.enfcer any Earth observations related to 

-rE^. I ion't retx-ssber sny traffic in the control rooa that - - 


Hck question vas asked earlier, and to our 
jrted today or - nor did ve give them a 
•iesp you've got rt^ conspletely lost with 


Time: .17:18 CI/P, 177:57 GET 


LITTLETOH I don't rerssmber airy Earth Observations related to 

a atcnr.. I don't remenber any traffic in the control room that v&s 
associated vith a storo. 

PAO Harrji'' Pease. 

LIT?LK'':0?f i hope if there's a stonn it's -not coraing Into the 


Q!JEHY Co-uld you tfute your hands ar>d shov isn this DM Jettison? 

I can't - It looks to ne as if the Kaneuver is sort of like a kid shooting 
a spitball vith a r'aler and 1 cej-i't undflrstandl hov you get spin stablli- 
satioi!. It looks to nt? as if you'd look at the ertds of the DM.alternat.iy 
that it vould te spinning in the sair.e plarie that the spacecraft' is in. 

CRIP? EH Veil, it Is spinning ift the ss«e plane the space- 

craft 'is, ena over ernl. Tne an;er;riF. i::-. sticking out cf the side of the 
decking R.iulo '.3 i f i t, vere the axil to a vheel . Ani the aritenna is what 
ve tu-e trying .-tabilfze. 

qiK?VY Oh. I P-ee. Did you try sor:ethln€ sinilar to this 

vlih Vv.'^ ?oyu^ : 

CRItTE:; :ic, sir, ?iba :.l -jt ly rv,:t. 

c/'r-Y J .i-fi't ^^'a-: ;vi'lr: it up. That va,;; b^dly stated but. 

: iiiu't ~.;'ir. ^:'Tin ^ncr^, up. 1 ;n'?ant yotj tiy a - a very accurate ranging 
1:% 'r-»y ^-'V'/ir;!*' i - f';r ^ o;-:S i ns.^^-- - - 

\::i:?Vy:j VcH v.- hT.'-- n VHP .•■i-iping tsystcrr. >VR the C?K that we use 

; "'r-v -i.k i - re r;l-.: :'...r Update stHle vector, 

._,T--h ■ii.^. ve h'i>'" : r.j^: o"-; rit.i>i betveen the C3M and the Soyuz. 

A-.l vr. iia -JSP li'ij r.-t rer-ibiiy .■^:c':fat*J at short ranges. It*;5 

vi'ry ir-r-i fv$ fur render V":-,.;^ vhe:: yen' re 30 to iOO and aorosi'thing 

rsi le? way fr.'/!^: i t, . 

;-i:FPY r-;t, d;.; *ry t-^ - yc\i kriov pit there at 

v-mt r.vei t,„- i? - ■'\-:3 v?:'v. v-'v* here f ■- Sitting at 

v/'.*^- swr^f- ti -.-vv-'-" fc" ^ :..:'-:,c V'^icd t;.?p vith vi - ncrnir&te ranginf; 
i-v'icf vv.;'.-;'. '.v. i. : _1 . And ♦i^^^n ve ii i d'" that. 

T'jrh:-. ■■.•<■■'■/-; "'■}.\" -::> attr^pt it 'ill t;i' ;>oyut. t" do 

-v.- kiu\ -.f :r '::\h'. Vf^';-.- dct:;.? viln this d:;ppif>r ';'A*.s?ri?ierit . 

!■•. ■ dap? ti'ii" u'^.i t i ^'Ti hf^r*/". 

„":'V;' Y":.:d:..' - I l.^Hev; he'? th" rri n - i j/ril i !iw ?'* i gat '^r 

,t,, :,;v- lu . i''xt-cr[r'>:-.- ~ thf DM t.'^'" thr'inter:^ '.■■n it 

'..-•i "nnt V. :■; -'V y.-i c'd.ri^ t.-; .^i vo il th-it, fv:;: to t -ib I li t." it. A:-d 

. V ',nr t''." "^.-^ T... '\ " i ' r/^ M ;= d 3 nhc *:d','" ro:^ : :,-.*:r;f-uv-?r 

,y--,:;i -j-,-. jo ct i r.^ -n.'.'- in: f d.'M'-a't ilivi- flt;/ *! hrur;; t*'" r ? at ■■A''. 

\) ■;■ » _ v«;h i ; l^'- nrf t.t:i» IM ' :' Fipg:^ Mr t'Ci-n^ire St's att»ic!';'Mi " 

tho '"d". And t-;"' who;- :n;ly i r.;-nn and rotat'^d ^'.^0 de^rrpes and it - 

it .rcr-i^K '•u'cuni tn i h;* c-:;:-rec' -ittltu-ie thp crew Yj r-it the pyrote-:r rd rr 
td'Si* ;vtv'-rnt, <:■• the 'i'-cKlng rit.f? du?;t like - It's i ike the last 

y,:/u ui.-k'C'^ rr::':- tri- Hrd.. ors ^ bunar r-iiPslDn. You have scsse pyr''-? ' 
rtfsrntf th.;' fi thnt ><id.cvv: tn« -i-nb t^-- nnd'::>ok. W« ' re U3in*f • nfr. 

AST? (iMA) ?Ck9K/B 

PAO , ^, ^ second, 

'^^^^"^ Vr!ai*J,t?* *^* ^^'^ <lVi««tion8 over here 

^he m in the otp^ltTrl'^if'''' T'"^^' -i^ L Zc^t with 

CRIPPSN ye«h sample. 

QUERY -^tcr. 

together v,t,\t''!\» .^--^r « =^1^., ruTT^llt til ' 


A8TP (USA) PC£»9F/l 

Tiiwi 17i23 COT, 178;02 OBT 

CRIPPEN - , vision Hcaua* v« couldn't a gmiai.. 

vindov together vUh th« 1$ «UU*«f r cl»«r« It/sJl^! JemH^i! 
oent to get Bood picture!* of it. I tfeinTth* S?. >Lfcf requirft- 

look at th« «otIoS Of Z m to h.iV«i^a a JJlJ^t :L 

««e9 In hia data. *^ any unforeseon thingo 

>,.^l™'^^?. <'^^^'' r«nde»vou3 vi^ov of course 

qUER/ I preaune the CH goes into t. Secayina orbit When 

voiad you estiiaate it to brea> up? vcc^ymg orDi?:, wh«n 

LITTLETON Ckay . I think althougn ve've done some fairly . 

'^^r^^s^l^rT'^'^'T f ^^^^^^ reU^^^^t^lii 
till it ^« ^« ^*Ti"S to do is get the total veiocitv 

'^In W n'^'f"'^ '■^^'^ "'""^ th* locJ horizontal ^nd ve 

.an be s..gnt.y off arid - veil even .^re than aiightly. ifa prettv 

usually - we're very forimiate in this. We hav<? a - o-J^verv 

ter program, up and later on in the sequence he getTa 'iLh nl dt^r 
and no ha« to - a«d that's asking hia for peraiaslon tr^ooefd Ke"^ 
gashes what - a PRO on that. Crip? He pusLa a key cilllTmtEm^ 
The computer counts dwn to the precise tise, starts U-e a^ln S* 
crevmen has tvo cuea for when to throv tvo svitchea that fire'th^ , 
He vatcnes arrov needles. Vfnen the arr-ov ne.dlS go ze^'^e'. 

a?i^;t ^^J^'":''^^^ second., the arroJ nee. left n the clo<^k 

all get there at che sa«e txoie. He thro-^a the avitche. and it'» all 



H^v^ t.f \ ■ ^""^ ^""^ ^i^^-sticn la asked o-ut of ignorance 

?i«ht fL:tr^'' ^^^t aight alter tS; 

light flashing experiment this evening? -^'-er i,ne 

UTTLETON Oee, 1 don't think so. 


No. there's nothing going to ^rtuSate It ^'^ 

RILEY Any further questions? If not, tharA you. 



" Houston, TexM 

ASTP Charige-of-Shift Briefing #33 
Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center 
Hou3ton, T«xaa 
5;00 p. JO. CDT 
July 23, 1975 


Frank Littleton, ASTP Teao 1 Flight Director 

Robert Crippen, Cap cosaa 

A. M. Larsen, Jr., Science Officer 

David Garrett, Public Affairs Officer 


TiMi i?»00 COT, 201 OCT 
Date J 7/23/75 

we .a. apparently -i.c^cuUted al^htl. on vhat the . f^'^^^ij^^^if « 
«.Jule va« going to In the . ^ J^X^tlcipe^JS but 

v«io6Hy du« to th« JetUscn »echMl«»i then va g^t up 

fht'j vere on the ball una aanaged to get their hol»efvt$ orr ^« B^*^ 

E£E<=.rt- ^^^^^^^^ . . 



Ti«e: 17 1 00 CVS, 201 1 39 OBT 

Dftte; 7/23/75 

iTmi.-K3H - - nothing seemed to vorK. Ail the com vorKed 
right'™! and our oU^er bfg event today vaa - ve had Toj ch«c 
thf hookup of the recorders, A couple times he vent back J'-'J «^ecked 
Sablo^onnecte and so forth and ve didn't have J^^^^^^ J/^^^^. 
vent back and cycled eome evHchee i^nd aure enough y« «ot one running. 

tape reconler coinmanda that comee fruB this device thftt ^^^^^^ 
I u'S'aJv c.. ^.aule cone out in parallel .nd Just fro^ a quie« io^ 
it, it Io<,k8 UKo r..ybe the d.vlce that aends ^'J ^ 

recorders on and off lw not be working properly. At leaat J-" 

i^htrf is working ^u^ fine and the o^^^r i^^^^^ 
to l«ave wen enough alone. The tape recorders are ^-fPl^^^^y [^l^ 
aant Eliher recorder can get all the data ana bp we're b«ppy t^^t a 
^1 ;auaiM Lav. rw jet itself went .^uat like we plar.ned. We 
%^:t:i:iZ%^r.,u.A when we Jettisoned it «« P^J^-^;^!„^f 

back and leaked at it a second time yeo' ^^JJ'^'^Xf e^Lr actlvUy 
it still lo-ked good so that went quite veil, ^he chei aciiyiv 
todlJ iislh' m burn. The firat burn in a sequence of two tnat 

u^a liable orbit condition. Separation between ^J^^ co^^^na 
tnl aervice tr«dule and the docking t^dule for cxper rent th. 
nr.t burn went off Just fine. So things ^'\\^f^^Tf;^ 
second burn in the series will cone off in a ^i^^^^^ ent?y 
tea. ^hift and weUl be back in here '^^^^^^^^^Z^r^ion. 
Everything's looking good^for entry. ^«J\'f j;",,f/!,;,n 
computer to Pa" tonight, phase ^^5^, clocks - we'll 

entry pads First thing tOBorrow morning we U 

1117 Jl synched together ao that the retroburn vUl -e-^ a. 100 

hours PFT. Got good weather in the splash area. ^"J^;;^;^!^ 

that their people are trained and ready ^Y^^^^^^^^^^^^? ^^art. 

the last splashdown ^^ fJ^^^.^'lZ le have 

I'm going to ask Bob Crippen ^'^ ^^^^ ."^l^T^., ^erc and I think he'll 

and then Skip Lai'sen. the experines.ta ^ J 

have some words for you on some vi3 op. ?a.«e« ^« f 

CBIPPES Thank you Frank. I really don t nave mw. 

add. It wa. a real super tod^. 'Ihe - the guys 
.hcogh that they did a lot of ex ra - /or the -^y--.-^^ 
Press out there. To setup for f 'f^^;";; ' all tidied up and 

up an hour early so they can get '^/F^^/^^^^f^^f g^'.^timea tron 
get everything set up proper. And it s not ^^5,^ ^ 

to go through the trainer in in severnl weeks Zt7rlnz 
that just like a clock, He couldn't have done it ar:y better. 

Kra' (USA) h\cy^^B/\ 

oniFrKM - m vh«t • vh»t they did vas avitch over to n - a re- 

4iin<iant ntt. itucJo tall an4 use that ono. And It so hftpp'mu ihpt ve reaHy don't 
n«ed thti*. partieui&r awd« of operation throughout the rest, of the fUght, 
So it shcul;lrt't hurt U3 . a-Jo, very briefly, J thought it vaa &u oulptand- 
Itig 'l»y . 

SKip, you want to comjont nov? 
LAH?.;.* Okay, I the firnt ft'i-tivity )uvt todny in 

vif5 'jb-:> vKs !T.o ve achedulod in yeuterJay ani that hud to do vith 1:7- 

irii to ge'. acme Kore inforaiation on the Nev Engmnd red tiaa ni-'??*., The 
crev vas Mot able to use a camera whPn ve vent over the* areai Hovever, 
a« y5a i-r-'r-ibly heard he was -able to vii'.uHiiy describe vhat he ss&w niiti 
the PI jT.::' hi, 3 coisaerila there, Juat recently one rev of one orbil fif-/;, 
the sp«Heeci'aft caa« up over the scuthfaatern ps.ri of A-wtrnU la tind we're 
trying to ^et socwi itjfomalioo in the T.taa^iniRix Sea. Tnere is an eddie 
o'lt there V.r.i^vn as An.sus(?) Eddie and the ■••rev vas s<'">J"'i5 '-c ^-^j' ^nd get 
30Bse. infin-jsAtlcn on that. That area did have a lot of cloud - cloud 
covorage, 'ini I think it aight have - he got a lot of clouds. And in tin? la.3t 
orbit , we; I folloving tiiat one on up Wt? ciri'? vr:'3t of - vost tufi ;i.->rt h of 
Jiavail afsd we J'Jist had c-ne where ve picked up the piiget &:yjjid art'ia north 
of that Var.coover Island cocing up ovt-r Michigan t j-j'S-*' to get a jrrt jn- 
fojrofttl'oTi the superior iron ore arcs and then into iiiudlm'y for A'M^ 
.inforaatlcn in the Sudbury nickle area. Ah\ Z dcn't Know the -re'sulta of 
that paas, they just had it. I did hear then say they ihou^i they got 
fsoEe excellent T%' coverage and perhaps you'll g*?t a ehriru-e to r->'0 thut 
later this afternoon. 

PAO Ohay. 1 guess we'll open up for :iuc'stions nov. We 

can taXe Sick Cria over here, please? 

QUSF/j Woiild you elaborate Just a little hit rot.rr o 'al-ou*. the 

good weather? And also you reiaarked a little bit ago that this ii? the last 
splasbdovr and I vondered if you vculd reniidce aV'out t'lfit. for about 30 
aecondfi or so. 

jJ\R:?E:i Well - 

QUE.";Y I - I don't want to get you invalved vi'J. a long 

explanation but I thought you al ght have another word or two to say 
about it ill so. 

LA?5:'N' Veil this is first ani last sploshdcvij, ihie i.«s 

Mie firat opportimrty I've had to be a fiis^ht dirKctor. And so it'i! in 
IhHi. v-v it.'f. kiul n firjjt an: Ct'.c* r.or . A;-...i in a way, rhi> vhole 
ciis-noii !■.'-..; ceen tliat waj'. It't? a rdsiuo:: of first:; nnd iaata a'sl - and 
still a bc-glnriiug all - ail in one. We've flown Ihe I'ii't booster. We've - 
flying a last CSH. When we do the BPS burn for entry 1 that's the lai^t 
tine that engine will ever burn; the last tir.e ve'll lar.d on parachutes; 
the last tise we'll lasnd in the water. On the other hand it was the firet 
Joint aiasion - a lot of firsts in it. And all and all it's etiU a be- 
ginning. We're preaaing on to the ynuttle era and looKing forward to that. 
Good weather you asXed about, ve got - it's pretty olesir, scattered 
clouds 1 ffiese , they're adequate ceiling; the wave heighlr, like h 
feet. It's Juflt great weather. 

ASTP (USA) MC5ir-»/2 

Times ITsOT COT, 20l'M OET 


MO l,9t'B teJte I<ydla in the J>«iQk row. 

QUEBV On the problem vith recox'dera, did T understand you 

ct>rr<otly to ae^ that they - that neither of them were vorKing *na thdy 
- ;in(4 then the crew had to worK to get one of them going? 

Um3=nX3N InitieLlly, neither recorder i/orked, that's r'.ght, 

Ai^ er soffle troubleshooting we got one recorder working. And it 'a en- 
tirely adequate to tahe all the data the recorders are redundant. Tvu 
identical r<?corder3 pacXaged m the sane box, 

'i^r.m These recorders collect data from the docking Biodule, 

ia that correct? 

Lm-'LLTON 'n-iat'a right. Tht? - the retran - the receiver in 

th*,' - of conrna ia in the CSM, and it'a taXing data on the -locating nodule;. 
Ar;:i th»' entite experiments kind of separate fro© the rest of the CSH 
sypteMs. It uses a separate antenna on the outside of the service module 
ar.1 it ha;i itf; own data i-ecordlng system. And they Just bring thoir recorder 
back and there's another plug on it that plugs into 8o^.e GSE equ--ytient 
back on the grotuid that allova them to proeeBs the data. 

PAO We'll take Kric Pease, rlg}>t in the blue shirt right 

in front of you. 

QtlERY I had a littU trouble froa the air-to-ground visualising 

the gec«r.elry Just after thy m Jettition. Vhen Vance said that he saw 
it about ho d<.'gree3 to the left and below — 


A6TP (l)SA) K52C/1 

Timei I'fUS COT, JOlsSO OBT 


QUKKY - • after th« OM Jettison, when Vanes said that Vie 

saw it about ^0 degrees to tlie Un nnd below, but I - were they - vere 
the orew heada up ut that time, or still head* left - wh«re ww that in 
ralatlon to up imd down « far as I'm concerned? 

CFtlF'PEJJ Okay. If you could Imagine the comwand mod«iIv. you 

Know, with the nose «o U pointed in the direction that we're supposed 
ty - tho orbit wafl traveling, They rolled over 90 degrees, and they were 
oriented such that the nose vtka pointing atraight down, yawing - I'm yorrv 
yawing around to the right - I can't, my hand won't twist that way. At 
.viy rate, they were yawing around to the right, okay, and they let U go 
when the nose waa essentially straight down and they kept going until - 
and stopyed the comand jsodule when the - it waa essentially horizontal 
again, hu-i at that point, they were looking out the window and their 
neads vould hava been this direction. And what ho said waa - U was - 
it waa down in thii? direction. Okay? It was down left , and it wa<$, 1 
guess it vns a little bit down htjre, (garble), when he said pitch down, 
it vsa ,lust a little bit to one sidoi I don't Iwigins it didn't ccae out 
of the plane that stuch but it vas primarily that we Just traveled on - a 
little bit further arouiid in our yav maneuver was the reason it vajf sit- 
ting to the left. 

?A0 Dr. Carapbell. 

'^'an you give us the approximate altitude arid geograph- 
ical position of the preas conferent^e this rcorning; the (garble) during 
press conference. 

LITTLETON I've forgotten the orbit. It's - you know, what 

it's - veil I really don't know he orbit. We started the press confer- 
ence right after we got - veil, let's see, I gueaa it was about 7 ainutes 
after ve got ATS AOS, and if you've got aoiae naps there, I think you'll 
find that's probably over Spain and »oving through Europe, and we" probab- 
ly finished it aaybe over the Soviet Union. &at, you know, you - that's 
about it. We started in Europe and vent through there, 

ifJtWi VTnat vas the approximate altitude? 

LI7rLET0N I gueas we're in about 125 circvilar or so. 

SPKR That nautical or standard? 

LirTLHriV?; Na\;tic&l niU-s . 

PAO Jacques . 

'^'•^'S^*-' How big a delta - &n extra delta V did you s^-i durinc 

that J'H Jet? ^ t. 

CRlhPKn Hov about - it waa about - probably averaged out 

close to ?0 feet per aecor.J; the two components we ha^i going. Ve - - 
Lm^ETKiN You mean the DM burn - - 

CRIPPEN Following the - following the Jettison, we did a 

burn maneuver to change oui- position relative to the docking module. Is 
that what you're asking? 

QUERY No. rne extra velocity you got because of the springs. 

CRIPPEN c*i. It - it, you know, samll; it - on the order 

of less than a foot per second. Total, we don't get but a little over 

AST? (USA) PCt>2C/S 

a foot per second delta from that ovinj? anyhov. And so in the ordttr 

ordftsf of a few tentha of a foot per eocond. 
PAO Loviie. 

Q^IERY Have you anj' indication from the Russi&na or any othwr 

source, aa to when they will bring down the Oalyut space station? Tliey 
have aaid only in preoa conferences It would be the laat 10 days of July, 

LITTLETON No, I— we really don't, 

QUKR^ On the upcoming Eaj'th Observation pasis Too Stafford 

was talking about using the video tape recorder instead of film becauae 
he 3hy8 they were running low. I was wondering, can you get goo<l data 
uaini; television cajnerai I didn't thinh color rendition or, a TV or - 
01" oharjneas was anything like filn. 

IJVRSKN We - ai5 far (xa I know we did still you film cn 

that ear-era, using a Hasselblal cantera, but in addition, 1 think, fror/s 
some vf the fS^ylab experience, we havo been able to get good general 
photography type information froa the VrK. 

LITTLETOfJ 1 think FarouX was probably trying lo see bow good 

we oould do frora this altitude with the TV cajtiera in hopes that myhe 
we could use it for soKCthing like this in the future. 

PAO Are there any - Jacques. 

QUERY Anything partigul<ir about the reentry path tomorrow 

m compared to other missions, and what abo\it the traekitig? lkj you have 
any ARIAm. 

LITTLETON Yeali, we've got an AKIA out that should give \i3 

voice after blackout, poftt blackout voice is its function. 


A3TP (USA) mSD/l 

voice after buckout -^crbUcJoit vaf?'J "^''"'^ «*^^ ^« 

«rou.a track about xf^. tj^f J*^ « " f-^^^i^". Th« 

If. ^ust fine. w«.v. got no problM' ^Uh U ^''^^^ 

;-.J^t c^n that b« raided aovn " gioS'iat.rar'"^' recorded, how 
Ulte broadcast? growa later as conpcrtfd with the b<:iu&} 

'i-'wr^ hS^.! real'lLti%Tf:[i;„^'^Jr '''' 

ve h..l uoi pilLed U..t ^^Ja ;:\^f"«^': ^^^^ to the States, 

it had-.. ^"''^» ha.1 ny lines up - tc bri^K 

Can it Ye l...a.icaat b::noin fL^^f^^jT " ^^^^ ^y^te.. 

c-ouid thf tare be sped up? Or ^ P'^*'y«>^ l^ve. or 

ti^^^e? ^" '^^ '''^'^l^ it Just linker! dovr> to ih^ actual 

rro. S't.Uo. thir^^XJ'' -PFrcxinate course of the television .igna^ 
LITT'LETOj; The '1 vhat -i- 

QUERY i-"',, "'^ '-^'-^ns - 

'«rnins? ^^'^ «^ baek to here thl^ 

^'Ut ve vera going fron 't^r^p^e^cr.n 't'^'f^' f?/"^^^' ^" ^•'^ ^r.... 
to another .ateUite. and ba ' i^to ! ^^tl?^. ^^^rid, back ' 

think is - is • ris; ? t receiving statiw. vhieh I 

oo.iar.. t.en .0.; d^T;:^^-:^:^:.^^:^^ 

p;,;-"-"'' I it's l.:i9, Ci>T. 

:10V. b;u;. ve h.v. rrKi/vhLrgitf HutuS: ^rs'^^^^r 

- - s^'to .fitltude ^l:8t.-, and longf tude 16?- 

SPEAKER vp" 1 

torK>rrov night. One'othe^ thi nrt>~o''I ''"'"^"''''^ ''^^'^ " '^i' tV>... 
What the ground track is Ling ^ ve'l '^."^ ^« ^'^^'^•^'K «t 

vuh the recovery g^^s to pic? th^Hnal ta»S v'' " -^^'^^-^ 
tomorrow night that's right. ^'^^^ "'^^ n^B^t, not 

^^''^ ^"^ fm-ther questions? If not, thar.k you. 

— -< »^ r 'i rti n ■ ■ ■ 

Houston, Texas 

ASTP Change-of Shift Debriefing 
Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texas 
July Vj, 1975 

Participants : 

M. P. FranK, AS-TP Teaia 1 Flight Director 

Fran'K Littleton, ASTP Teaa 1 Joint Flight Director 

PAO, Ben Janea 

A8TP (II8A) PCm/l 

TAO - - Mr. Frimit LlUlctop, «o I haven't Mked, but, 

Pi|ft«(, tlo you want to Ptart off with tomt conmnXn on today's activity. 

FHANK No, not really. I thinX everybody la ^ you can 

probK)'ly hear «« all nght, can't you? I think ever/body baa oeen 
whf»t'a happened today and what vent on. 1 don't really want ♦-o nw 
back through all thlngfl thav have happened. It w.jg5it to be pretty 
Qbvtoui wc got a good thing going here, and a lot of 8ig)..fl«ant events 
gjt tieconipXlahed today. Things that are critical toward getting the 
ifliaeion ucconpllahed, and they all c&ae off Juat about as planned, ao 
I don't want to run througlj all that again. 

PAO OKay. I gvsese ve can have questions, if ve can get 

a mike down here. 

'-iiiKRY Veah, Pete, I gueaa, Juat - I want to doublecheck 

on the bubbles problem. IB that hellua bubbles? 

,"T*ANK Okay. You're talking about the fact that • going 

through the procedures there Juat prior to the liftoff, the configuration 
vas not -oi-rect. Vance threw a wrong switch in bringing the RCS 
KysUm ori line, and since it was not the way we'd planned to do it, ve 
did get a helium Imbble In a different part of the line than what ve 
had expected. It's still the ease site bubble; it's Juat, in a different 
part of the line, and ve had a procedure all worked out to noainally 
get rid of that bubble while we were still attached to the S-IVB. We 
vent through that procedure anyway to get rid of it, aa ftuch of it as 
we could, but there's stiU a poaslbllity that helium is trapped in the 
line that leads from the PSM. We have a procedure that ve' re going to 
follov either this evening or tomorrow to clean out the last bit of 
that hellus in there. It's eseentially the eaae aa the other; ve'll 
Just burn the engines for a vnlle, feeding from the PSM thia tine to 
clean tl e bubble out . 

c^KRv It i« a burn aa opposed to a du»p. 

n<p^iY. Yea. That's right. 

i^jiMY Okay. And if - you have no vorries at all that the 

proce iurc is going to work it out. Bight? 
K'fANK No. Ho concern. 

QUKhY Okay. 

QliHay There vus meant to be live television transnlseion 

from the -Russian spacecraft. As far as I can determine, there^haven't 
l<;en anv nince launching. Is that unuaual , or is it a problemt 

FRANK Okay. Frank, you can correct oe if !'» vrong, but 

i think the only television ve expected at this point vas durlr.g the 
luunch. Wasn't it? 

MTTLirr-OK That's right. We expected launch television* live 

'.c-levitaon froa Goyuz during the launch, but you're avare that they have 
hty<\ H problem with a csaerd mounted In the descent vehicle. It's caliel 
TK2. It's a black and vhite caisera that's hard mounted. They almply 
didn't Kct a signal froa It during their launch, and they're In the 
procefiM of troubleshooting it nov. 

Qiim (Garble) a problea? 

5:?'!TlJijT0N Well, I guess ve don't knov the anaver to that yet. 

We know ve didn't get a signal. 

/^V PC29A/2 

;■r^'^„v ...v ,r rMUuv. ffj':.r pi.... 

.»« c-atti.,B -^-^ »=■='.- °„ii „„ their - vh.1. V. knov 

.,«■ nist-ory of their iais"'-* 

!'3iD OF I^vFK 

..r > '..vl ---V. •-• Tu^ uia to h«*. .^.ftl ve.. 

^.,.'f'rl..«. r.c 'r^V.; V..-. »~ 

■•■^■--'^ . ...r?. ?h*-\.. i-:-;ut« -^Hv. ^....^.lUin|^ n«. 
v. r!,' , . wr.ftt of ecov«r*tion c«n > ^ 

, , ^^.l «r.U..v.y r..rlnal -^^Z^;;; ^^^.^,^,„e-4 »l V"-* Cr. ft . 

r:;--^:.-'--,.^.:: r!;::^^:; - 1-.,..* ^-^ t.o.^ .......... v.-.. 

" . *a a-nvi'v that vill twe piAJet 

IS Vn^x the - th« ^-^"^ - ^l^* ^* 

^ov -«r<,'' v«ii«v« it li Qf\« of ^^irM caBtfr&s. It'* the 

'■ V"f * .^o- '.a o'bfr Jthe one that ve diA not get. 

SJ«E« iJ^on-t „.v« r...o-, to »U.v. they're not 

"■■"''"'■".r/li"''"'"' ™ ■'"•'''"'^ »n»>iv.r U that 

, don't ... » It »m Pro*.bly W ■ 

.,H.h th.- :^oviet Ma.sicn Control Center today? Becauee ve aia 

t^^^"' '"rile for you Kn..t J.^J^^^jron U«i» tot tK»^. ^ 
they csi teie i'^' , ^f.;^y a88U»e \n9y ~« 

information ^^^^^^^/t^ourthai . 
. Haven't hearOardly ft^vt; »f Jot^^^ 


Af.W (ISA) PCJ90/1 

MiASf .. ' °' • '"'"•lu.M Joint 

^^"^1 Yesf " ^« PK^^n^ for it '^""^^^ 

(Ku..,si«^,). l"^o orbU vas M<je? One of tS ^aU 

?TiANK I If ^'^'^ Russian. 

^*trof,auts hsve not. ^^^'^^ coassonauts. r« aure th 

-p";" ""^^^ f-'Ot. -«»»«Qnauts. r« aur© the 

*!y ""^^ not? 

f'Oitsic-r than ve'j nv* *^ '^^t*' It's lu^t i. if!!^, 

t.. cLv: '---''^ - - ou.f :i.t' ir:^„ „ 

Q'^ay. i^^ank you ver^ such. 

mv Ch«ii««f-of Shift t>ebrt«fina 
Uynion B. Johnson Sp»c« Center 
itouaton, Te^as 
July 16. 1975 

Participant 3! 

Nftll Kat'hinson. ASTP Tean 2 Flight Director 

PAO, Cur' is Hunt 

AfPP (USA) PC30A/1 

„ * think P<»k# Prajih \ ^A^rnoon And thi« 

the fi rat ftwieuvlr 2f if5 f •^*''»<>oft *r.a probably 'a <Jlr«ctor 

nings veren»ti fiovjng exaotlv m H^^n, they reix>rt^,j t*,^, 

" W4 vlth (h« <lu,p syelj. i„ I," 'Jfjleu. w« couldn't i^e nnAhlL 

Rate I Ijlff/n 

y taxina *bout it ov«r the thr« or lour hours th«r* 

u» »ven further. Or« other tftlng ve 414, vhUh «*» ^^Vril^«!^vi«5i. 
^h%t r«.«nUone4 fro* tht pr« launch - ^^^^^riiy'.^*.;!!?! ou^of Jllulnce 
module RCS. thl» »orr>in«. The ami done sUfhtly out of sequence 

aM we - - 


AUTt» (USA) PCiOB/i 
Tliaes Oia5 CW 

"ZI^T Pff ^^rf to flit th*«, Xl«*f^th^j^?^in^ 

mi %h^n to ivitch b.cK to th« <iuft4« of commit w« Uunch«a 
th« prop»Uftnt source l«ing th* fow in4ivHuia qvMMit, one on each 4v^r, 
^m^.om%m v*i th.t v« . ihost Mnm h*v« Inert gat In th*«. Th«jf 
•ionH h«y« ««y iiqyH »na vh«n v« ar* « of courit thtf$ th» first ti,w 
UquH gqe« m ther«. An4 the rewon th« wnlnf i«<j««nct is dont vith 
In! Jif^^rf! forcf* liquid prot«U*nt through «,re plu«vtr.« 
w gets mi of the in«rt vhlch I b«ll«v6 Is heliua. U may Ic *itro«on 
H a h«Uu« or nitrogen, Cn« or th. oth.r. U do.«a«riNitte.rVut u '^^^ 
gets %U the «a« down w at the en«ine eo It all «oe« ovt ai one*?. Our 
tonqiifu vm eifiee ve »r»e4 - we flUed the propeiiant - filled the syne.-n 

fLry * ' ^L^iS*^ ^J','*^*^ P'"'"'**^-*"^' Inetead of propeliant froa the FJM vas 
th*t V. ight have had a amll aaount of inert gas ttili up in the 8vste« 
trappt'd as a bubble, do thie evtuing v« did thi« thing whl^h you proteably 
rieard r*?forfed to on the loop aa a purge burn, vhich baeJcaUy. v« p^it the 
im ^ oonn«ete4 the PSM to the .iets. Turned cn ail l6 Jeta. Set I 

ri"^['^^i«f» ^« ^0'^" * Plye afld *inua roU 8i«uUaneou8ly 
flo the vehicle wouldn't usaneuver dywwaicaily. We burned the englne'e 
eight roll Jets eicultaneouoly for 15? eeconda and all that did wa« ha^ii 
enough propellant down th»-ough the eyatea eo that if ve did have^y 
entrapped gas U there, it wuld go out. the problea . the thine 
you re vprrled about ie getting a bubble of ga« down at the OJiglne and 
having it there ri«ht vhen the enflne etarte, becauae vhat that doe* Jt 
«ee« up the fixture ratio. If you have a bad .Ixture ratio vhen you trv 

«\!!fi * ^f'T^^' ^^^y healthy. Kwever. inWtir*^ 

a small a«>ant of gas vhan tha engine is on and burning ia no proJua. 

■ . r^l* ""^^ coBpietely nominally. That cost u« about v 

t^.wida i,t m> propeliant to do that which ia really not going to bother 

til \' r r k'* TL^^^^" ^ J'*'" Standard flight plan where vc- 
ntencirv to be. think that', the laet you'll hear about thai. The o-her 
Jiii!> '''' «to tonight which happened after we thought the cr^w wh. 
probably through talking to ue for tha evening w*a this situation with u.- 
probe, rfe have a procedure on this first daj-; ve have an oxperinent - 
Uectrophorosio, one of the electraphOreeia ejcperiaenta . that has 
cryogt'nic: frecier that outgassee nitrogen into the cabin aa n regain. - 
Oft a rr^gular basis, The procedure for tonight was to - before we wen< 
bed - was to^take the probe out and atov the cryog«nic freeaer in the t-irmi-i. 
Close hatch I 80 that the freezer would be ia the tunnel, ioolated fror. thr 
cabin ror tonight. In the procest of taking the probe out . there la 
a procedure we go through to coUapse the probe and then you have to put a 
tool to the back of it. It's kind of hard to exjilaln without a probe 
here, but you put a tool in the back of it which BCchanically is 
turned and releases the capsule latches which are engaged in the ,lro?ue. 

ASTP {Ul5A) 
Timt Q\tn om 

orcimr^m viHeh U Mill In iht %smMl . iij«t»lie4 ia th« tu»m*l , 
$n»t«l J»:a In the docking laodttJ*. YAnct got i^e^y to iticli 

jh.»^ t->s.i iH th«rt, h» aiicov«r«4 thtt XUn mu torn inumrmt:* 
thp tool wul4nH to in jwa wh«i H« to ittVi»ti(|itii,| h, it Wna 

th« i«t«rfer#nc« nj^m to W ooiang froa * > In thftV «Mi« tr«». The 
tooi h4i8 to |{o through m *r«» taat hw i« •l^otrlcjil cOfm«ctort» - one 
n\r f •^'^•«^l<^^<^««««tor« - on. to wch of iht row feottu* 

t mt Are in th» probe, ?o «Ak« « iong ttory fhort, ve «Uct«4 to - 
sine« th9 «rw vas *lr«»dy «a hour - - 


Timi Qhv^ cm 

t« |!>ni< ntoi*y ntioi'tr ve elect etj to - #inc« th« or«v v«,^ M,t*'«»si>y wi hour 
uml M half i>te |;oin|j ia bed and ¥«r«n'i .iutt# aure wxietly vhai 
ltlr»d >^f |i*'f»(J«4ur«a w« wouid hftve to h&v« to get ih« Ihlni; feut ve eiecie4 
to atoj) right th<}re, and g#t ouraelveB in configuratioft vher# ¥«> eoal4 
go (,0 U'dl, And thai confij;urAttoa vajs to Vu»p the «8bin up tv 5.5 
Pgli, y«,Hl t<> aure th»t pftrtiftl pr«>3«urc' of oiygen was hi|sh enough 

HQ that wrty out-gmiaing ve got froa th* 0i70|t4,nlc fy««s!er voultJ not put 
U8 in ariiy problem vtth the partia-l |>r*j»ssiAre of OS In tfi« cabin and 
4u»t iaave the orygenlc fre«£««* in the *p»cecrftl\ t« <;«u»« of course 
ve couldnH get it into the tunnel with th« probe io ther« wid ve alev>t 
with the hatch I op«n tonight jneie&4 of vHh It - tunnel 8«&lw4 
yp. W):4ch of (jourse is no pro^jltia. Triat'e the vay vt sleep A{iyy*y, aost 
of the tlae, Bxcar^ v^'vn ve'v» g<>t 8o«i«bo4y in the 4ocHi!ig Roiiule vh<>r> 
and both hatches art ctn. We hi»ve got tecs 4 p rote over into the 

control c«nt«r, mi I've looked &l tH« confi|Mr«tion, »n4 ve've done 
acmd talking. AnA it turns out thdt this probleia that ve ran listo vm 
not unheard of. In fact ve - *t on« tiai© 1 uo4er»t*fisi - ! haven't eeen 
the pro<?et4ure»» but undf /atend that at one tise in the Apollo {rogra^ 
aoty^Uy e«jrrle4 proeetdures to air— onboar4 - cire^Jtmvent !r»terft'ren«;e 
frosi th«se pyro cow^otor*, because they can mve elightjy uniier 
nealh the cover, arid the prooetiur* is very aiaple. It Involves reinstal- 
Un« the probe - Id other wor4« Jacking it out, an^ putting it bacK Into ti 
twnei. Right now it ie partially collapaed - it's looae except for the 
three capture UtcheSi vhich are hol^lrig it in the pirogue. Relnetsai 
it bftoJt into the tunnel, ve have to take the cover off vhich le one 
aerevi vhioh expoaeai these four pyro oonnectora * mve thea out of the 
vay anij fa. stick the tool in there and proceed ncrsfilly vith the 
probe : We got a lot of people looking at it tonight to try 

afld isaki .vui-i that that's exactly vhat ve want to do. We have a v*r/ 
goo*l expi* '-tion from Vance, about vhat he things the interfei-ence is 
and it sounds the beat ve can figure right nov to be ex«c»^ly the problt<» 
that we had once anticipated and had carried proceejures for, If 
that turns out to be the caae, I don't think it'll have hardly any 
iKpaot at all in the flight plan torn r row. Probably taXe us maybe 
half hour in the morning to get it o\,t, We vlH have to work oit i hr 
probo flr&t because tomorrov'a flight plan of course invoivea tr<y\i\if, 
into the docking module, and going doing the DM activaijoii, anl v.- 
caxk't get in there until ve get the probe out. If It turna out in 
js'>fflt thing wore coapllcaied than that, I gueaa you could 8a.y thai v.; 
can pretty osuch field etrlp the probe right dovn to nuts and boUr, ii" 
we had to dlaaaBemble it to take it out. That would certainly leka n 
lot ion»?«r, but, there isn't anything there tonight, at leaat that I 
can see nov that ve can't circuavent. The trajectory situation, to 
give you a little run dovn on - on what's going on with the Soyuz, and 
whats going on with us - as you know the Soyut vaa inserted today In 
a 119 by 100 roughly and they were Juat slightly under speed. They did 

Timt 03 1 COT 

h«8 « ncwinaiy »Bb«<Iv*U4 iMMi*ut*r io»rw¥, which th*fy &r« «olc« 4o to <Jlr«y 
UrU« t.h«Jr orbit »V fttjout- 132 nautlc*! aai«i, 1<(»'r«? <furr«nViy •iuiri« in « 
co«pl«t#ly n<wi»a orbit* W» in,«trt»4 In about • We did our circwUri**-^ 

tlon »*neuv«r thl* tftifrBooQ in 9k elrfiuliur and then va di4 • phMlnt iMin«uv©r *t 
about fivft and * h»lf hour». It p^t «« in « 93 by lt8 vhloh U vh«r« v« right 
nov, which U alao no«in4l. W» h*v& a amll out-of-plwi* di8p«r«ion that's been 
kind of in mi out d^p^nding on vhtt ««t of tr«cJiln« d»tft yoy look «t 
i tiu$p's«t that wt* XI probtbiy do » iBid* phti* «!orr«cUor» «*neuv«r 
\c8M5rr«PV, at ihw Bchtduled tlts#. Th»r« li • tlm» tn the fUj^t pian 
ler a pn&8# <idj««t»ent, *nd I don't know •x«otly wh»n it Is but it*B in 
/tiur nijtht pUn, probebly «« » m«n«uvi»r cidind PCM. And ve'U probably 
<K' thut Komrrcv. U\« I U vill b« v«ry 1 iiwiglne it vill 

be Itjas thWi 10 Test p«r leeond, »nd probabiy don« In RC$. 

IWD OF im: 

liWCHIMSOS probafeiy <lo that toswrr^w, UH« I *m it vlU _ 

4«.r5c3!w.;u^»H until iift.^ "if Ljj^T.; 

iUuvrr. ^curing lO^ouV no*i.»i - »bout no«ln*l «>J «n AM 

u io»«rroVt fUiht plan fiO«i, v* 4o«'t hive "^.^Ve -^IJ^if «f ^ 
thU on* to ««t thi probe out which I donH con»l4«r to b« a ^^{^f J^>; 

lot of niihx plan »o<l9 for vo»»rrow, We'll fiy H pretty rsush a* 

hSw I felt about thU time the flr»t 4ay after Jkyiab I a«i it $ 

„ completely different ati^aphera conelderirjg^the very »i ^^^^ "f^^ 
that ve bave to worry about here. v«r8U» the thing* ve we^e worrying 
ftbuut then. &o I'» real ple&ae«i that thing* are going along veil, i 
gyeas thafe all thafe up. Have eoae ^jueetloftef 

aUIBV Hell, couU you go through in a 1, 2, 2 faahion 

preol»ely the crew U «oln« to attack thl« rrobe problem upon 
aw&Xettlng In the jRornlng. . ^. ■ i 

Ht/rraiSSOS Yee! It»s pretty har4 - I haven't eeen the procedure 
mi they're iuet worKing It up an4 I 4t<ln't even know jiuch a procedure 
exUte/untn ahortly before I left but )M «e «o back a«aln and tell 
you where the probe l». The probe jww it 4»fi«Ung free, if you wiU, 
in the tunnel with hatch I open. You can't ^Jr;;*ee hH 

when you collapse the probe, If you reuember, when you take the three m« 
Tro g' tha? atfaoh H to the walle. you know you uee the 
it down. Ae thoae thing* coi«e off the wall, the back of fff^f^^r 
up tovarda you if the probe's in front of you and you re « "i"*''^^* " 
Klr.a of like a car Jaci tha.'a extending. ^YtSaM'h^ ie ve t 
to th« drogue withe three capfore latchea. And J " J'^.J* 
to be<i. How in the laornlng, In order to ^''PO'^ JJ^^^^ lift^neT 
to take off * take out - ve need to put the probe back in the tunnei. 
Beinetail It in other word. - In other worda J^jJ; i^^^^* TiTeltlln and 
dlreoti..n ae If you were Jacking your car Jack ^^•/^^•J^JJ^^^'^^" f 1. 
ve'U it back ln%he tunnel Juat the way^t wa, ^ U AUen 

procedure. Then we need to take the a crew off, wnicn vo- ™ * 
wrench, i believe - - 


km (U8A) K30-8/i 

WWHIHS^OS . .thftt covert the pyro - th« c«P f<>ver« i^f';; 

r.xi i^p t« to t»Ke thU iV«'Ui tool, it throuuh ih« hoU w»d turn 
Ind iht»n the pU« U fr«9 *n<l you've got It out, Nov. once v« get the 

C'. eov. L« the py.0 «onn.ctor.» which th* thing. v« 

givlnK V. the int«rftr«nct. Once h« i«ta th*t cover off, h« can look 

clearing hU aUUty to g.t the tool 4ov» ijjr^f P'^^f/^^J^^/^^rth. 
for rtiB&sina the cfcpture latches, and oove it out of the vay, stit^ thif 
tool t . tSeJe. vell of court. , mU you . once you get th« covjr off nov, 
'then ve v J. to coU»P«* the probe m^in. The cnly 
r^insi^i the prohe U with the probe in '^^^^^^^^^r^'^^^o^nt^^^^^ 
thit vhut to t«)^e out to r^mv^ the covering f *'^,^^^?^^!,'?L?^roW 
Hmx vialble. You can't get at it. So then theyM « 
1„4 once it vai coUapsed, pyt the toc-i in mi releftse the capture IftUl-c ' 
uTuy'i he free'J or'courae then ve'd P-f ^J^, P,^V J^f^f ^^^^ ^" 
the »yro connectort, Nov. I AonH - V&nce said that he ,^ 
^ve the eonneotore with » penotl. He put a pencil down in thf hoU, ^ 
Anlho ctm't set at the« very well. I've looHed at the cover, he prob.^ 
J n thHoier on --.d off lutd the hole i^ ahout. fd .ny if« aoout ^ 
,^,d M.«h in dlwveter and you re^ly ean't fee th* conn.ctorc- «^ r 

nocu.ri. There lu-e V coweotor* in there, wires com*' "^f/' l^*, 
nv, r uivi thoy »*Xe a 9(> degr«e turn and go - «o right into f * 
n 1-h. vl.ole , the whole a«(ie»hly»« aWut ^^8,*^^^'^,^,;/^'^^ 
■«v,n rfoe^ over that entire asaewtly. And once you get thst covei or , 
you ca^1;o the connector* very plainly. Nov. it one of tho.ic connec or. 
ireov.ring the hole we have to go through and if voree ^^^^^'^ 

may have to taJio the connector off. We think we car. .1u3t turn St, 
p'ystcaUy. the connentor, move it out of the vay. And once hat eovi-r 
r/cfi f that's not the caae, we could taHe the - my have to taXe^^ 
L ci;mlctor off Which doesn't hother u., Jither. f ,:^^\trr 
connectors are used to fire the bottled. ^^'^^/J^J^^'t.^f.'itly ^ejore 
ere three others left and "^^^^^^ ^^^w'^'^^it!! tier^'a - Cou kn^ - 
we do any of thle we'll diaoonnect the probe cahlea eo there 9 y^'^.J^'^ 
iL nrobe'a an inert object. Now. you Know the guya are working on the 

noTlTl wouldn't be au^ri«ed if -""tn^^'hi ^H^bi' 
Sant to asK a lot of question, in the morning ^J^l^^'Z^^f ' 
of changing aa tl«e goes on here, through the night while the ^rcw 
,U..l^.^ „ut t..f.^Jh. current ^-^^^^^^ 

ao KH-^h problem in locking. I can't find- * 

„ yqu r«c«aU in Apollo i** v» ^'f^ ^^'^iTtho^^ it h«4 to 4o vitii 

j:/ucui*r thin* thtt jiiTtbing to vuh th. 

«ftpi«r« tiw'vJ foU with th» prob« vh«n - vb«n 

..iuii^nt. I ^^^e'^ ^'^^/^Lii l^uiZ Apollo li» va*. proVtbly *l)out 

Ih/oaly prob* vt •vtr re right, U i» - thj. prvAu- 

<iH„»v i«t I t»,liA «o. 30 - ij^vtth it on ApoUo 

mn AgtiP •*n<J ••^^ i^irlnd ao forth. Voull once you've 

flU^anUeA ve could I gue^B ^"1",^^^^^^. JV*v/to rebulU it or- - 

to to get It ^;^^J/^^^i°^i'*^^trvnether we'd put it ^ack 

r«le«aed. And to «naver your 4^*^^^"*^. a d«ciiion about that . 

To ether. I thinK --'J^rfora'ny f^rtSir n'oiiS operation*. Hovever, 
The probe i« not .^dule Jettieon, it - it could 

ffVe got ir*to a cont ngenoy aockije^^^^^ hav. tc taK .bout 


Time: 03:15 Ctff 

operating normally. problem J't^'Lir""' 

,..s cfrtainly not an ^^^^^^f '^^.^J^f^re e'sUr days in i'ne -^-J-^^;;";-' 
bv a long shot. In fact it fl one a ^^^^ things tein? ^one 

fthiri ^ have the P^«'^«^Jir^^„,I^iuea' For .x^.l«..v«'- 

tosorrov thai ^^^^^'^'^ ^%^on tx.roU. -^^<=^5;f/;,^^, f acing on 

SUV raster scar, vhich is ^ f^^* y ^.^ got soae other aoing 

f.:^"o:;rfoi '."L'Se ...oluiel, certain « don t 
°a?,/U=t o. t.. joint -t^^"- . ,uti. Mt ".a 

bottle of - vaa it ,.^^>.-ej. vas. 

Hi;rCHINSOS ^^a repair lot> the cr.v .i^e thai 

QUERY v^at is U ifled for in ^he 

electrnphoresia ^^V^^^f^^^l r^.^aapU*' - ^0 X0*?. '-heft c-.:l- 

Trie ->iity reason ^ " ' .,^^-4 l-f 'JO in turisi* ^ i'--, 

t thing beeauae ve s^-^*- .ffeci on it v>atvv^ver. 

i d U.ring it in the ''^^^^ the, c a.- in ..t ^.^ , 

We .ii taxe the cover ^^ ^'^^^ ,,,,, the' .abln «,^^ur^ --^^ ■ r 

a aun.mrd procedure; If j --^ ...^f .6 you d««'t get - ' 

^,,,er y6u need to taXe tne ^.-er ^; / ^^xe^aM.. v.r u. there. 
,,,iUve aelta P^^f-/ ' ! t- immediately«.t ■ 

""S ^r.rtL lid frozen and you can t get . .he. iv>e ch! 

g^nS.s P/J* tine ve vere pumping up t?*e P^'/ '^m 't in the 

Ud orf tonight vhlle ^e ver p ^^^^ ^ Ania.^^. .^ 

i-abin preeaure vaa uj to F^^ 

"abin there it vae ^-^Tut^en - - 
SFKAKKR Oentlewert 


Houston, Texas 

AT/i'}' Chftrig'-'-of-Shlft Briefing 
Lyri'lori B. Johnson Space Center 
K'j-asston, Texas 
July 10, 1975 

J'wrt lei pants: 

M.I'. Krftnk, fClTV Flight Director 
(U'h'ir-i Truly, C^paulc Conaaunlc&tor 
KrariK i.iitleton, Joint Flight Director 
j;rivi/l *;Arr«.'tt, Public Affairt Officer 

AHTP (IJSA) PC32A/1 " 

'I'lmo: 17:33 CDT, 3'i : TJ OCT 

PAO We are ready to begin our change-of-ahi ft briefiiiK. 

To ny immediate ri^M. is Frank Littleton, ASTP Joint Flight Director 

n/!^^ . ^"^^ Director and to hia right is Astro- 

naut Dick Truly, the Cap Coir, r^r.e would you star*? 

• ^T!?^ . , ^ ^'^'^ - ^'^^ J^^^ sunraarize what my impres- 

sions of the day's activities were and not go Into any great detaP 
but we started Off today vitn the probie. c? tnying^o get the docking 

V ,t "'^1% . f ""^^ ^^-^'^ Of course this wasn't 

in the flignt plan to be doing that and the time that we spent doins 
It got u:^ somewnat behind on our flight plan. And before the morn 
was oyer I guess ve were approximately an hour behind the planned 
activiUea. There was one other contributing factor in in and 

sWt^lt' r ilTT^ ^° ^" parallel, the two crewmen performing 
simultaneously, it didr.'t work out too well because it was not quite 

Z^tf: r""? w^'^ ^^^'^^ ^" ^ event, we. we ended up 

ha/ing to delete one cf the earth observation passes today that wa.r 
I>lann..d a/;<j a lot of the things got delayed and soraevhat shl fted around 
but when we ,cft over th.. re Just a few minutes ago it looked as thouKh 
we were gr-ing to accoxplish everything that was scheduled today with the 
fxooption of thla one earth observation pass and the raster scan which 
va=i .c-i-thing that was, we were going to try to do to help calibrdte 
U. r.g3 for the aia bay experisnents that will be conducted after the 
Joint activities though it looks like if thing., go the way that, that 
they 3...er7t we woald only of lost those two activities today, which 
compared with, of course our main objecti'/es are really very very 
mnor deletions fror. the flight plan. Everything seems to be going well 
.he crewfi, i think, sour^ds like they're in very gocd shape and don't 
p.een to be haying ahy kind of personal problem or anything at all. 
.ertainly no indication of that, they 're working efficiently and in 

ff [Kl'Ury^rf^^^'f °' ^" ^''^ you might 8u«r.arl2e 

, ^^""^ interfacing here with the Hussians today If - - 
UiiLaiON Okay, we spent - is the mike on? We spent some 

ime the television cair.erB situation with - nAke a realtirr 
yhangr hen.-. Vc spent sc«e fair nnount tine today discussinwr th- 
■■e .f .'i:: ra situatioii that the BuBsiSiiB reported tn u;' v*»'i><»r.Jfty 

! yoi probttbly hcird the Husslano reported that th.-v ha'l t )'„. 

■li^mtion ,uid indpc-d they've done ^uile a hit In thhi .Hr^f-M-Mi. T'.r.y 
.'.av-,' Mn-e<- Iflr-vls Ion car.era.^ that are internal to the t^pn^^crnft , - 

'^"'''^ i-fi.T.'jras and one black and while and they've r*<eoverAi th- 
♦vo ; jr cameras which were the nost irawrtant ones with ret-ard to 
y^ieyij^ion for the Joint phase . ffo that wHs a good 3te{. forward ar.a we 
•ii-l taik f}uittt a bit about thnt toda;^ a/id basically their proMen wa^ 
that H swliching device failed in the spacecraft and they Jw-.ped around 
It. ihey devxsed this plan on the ground and checked it out in a simi. 
\ninr and voiced It up to the crew and they've performed it nov So 
•-e re very pleased with that. Other than that ve spent our day in our 
norrai status reports and we have a good situation going here, things 
are ^oing saoothly on both aides, I 'a very pleased wHh It. 
^ rick, il-;s you have anything to add7 

''^'•'^■^ ^''"^e one vorklngT The only - Fete ar;d I were 

J..:;t f'.lklng. the ivnly thing that I could think of that he didn't add 


Time: 17:33 CUI, 3l«:13 GET 


in his summary of the day's work was that we did - we did, we had a little 
bit of an out-of-piane velocity in the two trajectories and ve had a 
(lobate in the control center. We could of taken it out in the rendezvjus 
to - in the rendezvous burns tomorrow, but it would have been a little 
ncrv '-xpenaive in RCS or in prepallont to have done it tomorrow and 
niv.'i Did procedures would be slightly off nominal for the rendezvous, 
•i'l wr; ijr;cidf!'l to go ahead and do that burn - - 

i.Nfi nv 'j'Ai'K 


Timor 17:38 CDT, : 18 GET 

HCtJ or in propollant hay! L"'''''" ^^'^ ''^P'-nn I v... ,n 

be slightly off nominal Jo" he r^ST' c''° proce.J.rea 
«hea.] an:! do that burn thia aftern^^ rendezvous. So ve decided to go 
Bo a. far as trajectory vL^^'g^rnHn 1o?^ ""^'^ 
the morning, I thinx we're in a^/ ^" to the rendezvous in 

F^VerlK?) over here ^« ' ^P^^^^P the questions . Start with 

astrona"!tI are schedSel'fJr'a Se\SLl\f \' .^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ 
a^ain until after docking, and crew tSlf ^ ^ "<=^ to eat 

there be snacks in betvefn? ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ into Soyuz at, after 3. Wi 

— ■ - ^ill 

QUERY n ' « s^re there vili be - - 

Bo you know exactly - - 

there. ' ^^"^"^ definitely soae snack period in 

heard something over the^iirw\LT.f^^'"« ^'^-^'^ ^^en I 

to ne like we were usinj a used n^^S P^^^'^- ^'^ «°^ds 

I got here this morning": r^'firthe t.^nTV '^^ ''''' ^"^'^^^ 
probe we had probie:ns ^ith^n AiolL U 5"';'^' 

It and used it again? ' ^^'^'^^^ ^ back, refurbished 


. ^-«AiiK S:t-^ni:h: "i\t?r''r ^^^^ 

incredulous about that. Ve've-thou^h dor^t T'f!!' ^''^^ 
bTit that probe was, was checked oSwnr^J ^^^^ * of, 

available^lt was the^better ^ foT^s^Xr 

there was so,-«thlng overthe^'aiJ^^f'^"!'. fust before we ca^. in here 
vas doing sor.e '^xe?oising. ^oiia ^^^L ^^'-^ Clayton 

vhat that va.s all about and thrLlf ^'^f^**^* ^^^le bit about - 

the second questl on , ^t .s-weJe th/f vere giv„ for him? 
.hr- of their television ca^erL? ^! I'^n^ having prcblem., with all 
Mack ..i White one. :o":th g T^.J'tT.T.'':' """^ -'-^ ^^^^ 

but It, because that 'rthroJlf^Jerhld'^'^ J"^* ^^"^ 

turned out that the problem ^as on/ ult 1 f/^ '° ^'^^ 

^-^'--ra... It would have been all thr^I / affected all the 

-.•.Irei It. Nc., the exercise peri^'th^tva^ "^-^^^^^^ they hnve 

there was ouc that wo had had to nV?^ tf " ^^^'^ ''^^ Performing 

;iay. And, in recovering fro« bM^ffchi^d LI rf''"'^' 

that in fact all three%rew«ena .xe^cUe t^er^.l^ ' r.'*"^ 

'.ow n gone back and pick,.d those Jp s! tw /"^ "^'^^ 

they're wearing this medical harness 'thf? 1? "^^Z" ^'"'^^"^^ ^'^^ ^^^y- 

vas what you heard cn the - thing ^ ^»^^t 

Tint: 17:36 CDT, 3'» : l8 GET 

QUKKY Just to add a bit of a queatlori to thni-. Wiuj ho 

<ioirig that <JKercising in the docking module? And, secondly I thought 
I heard them say something about doing an Earth obser vat ion exporlment. 
Thoy did do part of that anyway didn't they? 

FRANK Yes, they did part of it, at least part of it and 

I'n not 3ure whether they did, did the entire thiiig or not. But the 
ptrt where the mapping camera, the camera that was involved I'm sure 
they -iid. And yes they were exer-it was exercising in the docking 
module . 

PAO Rr-g Charley. 

QUERY (Garble) . 

Q'-'^^RY - locity. Was that in Apollo or Soyuz? 

FRANK Well, hard to say, it was a relative difference in tht- 

orbit plar-es between the two vehicles. So I-I woTildn't really be able to 
tell you whether it was Apollo or Soyur. . 

'W^^'i Can you give any nunberr , round nurabora on the outor- 

how tnu.;h it watj? 

CTFw^KKH Tf.e corr<?ction today was about 6 f>» t f,<-r ru-ond. 

PAO Hill. 

QUE.MY What wa.T the extent of thia orbil'tl filJin'.' corrt-ot i oi. 

In degrees or minutes or hovyver much. And alao can you tell ur, nl the 
prcscr.t time the relatix-e position of the two spacecraft? How fnr ours 
is behind theirs, and hov fast we are gaining on thera? 

Tf(f<i(V. 0/tay, the, the angular data, I guess you'd have to 

takp - I couldn't give it to you directly take - 6 feet per second 
and divide it by 25,000 and that would give you the ten - - 


A:;vi' (t);jA) I •(: {;»(:/! 

«ivo It t.o yo. directly You tSr^.-^^r ^ '° ^ ' t 

I-^Vnot sure, but U's'J^oVabJyl: e"f o5 J Jl^^T ^ ' 

FBAIIK v^n , * 

rigiit where ve ex.!cted to b. 1 F^^"^^^ «««« though, that ve'll be 

QUERY I voild 'iKe ' M t ^^^^^i.^^'-^^-^^ ^-'^ to«>rrov . 

Observations, '^at they didlSd - Mt wore detail about the K.r.h 

^•'^^^ ^f-s 01" wasn't ccnpleted 

v.. to be doing the ^P^^^^^^^ to Tll'^^tT' ^^'^ 

V^BB, SO I'n sure vhen they get a c^'ar.ce tn f?nJ .1 t ^ ^^'"^ 

F.nrt. Of that pass Would hLe been 1 Jii l hil ^ ^"^^ '"^^^^ ^^'^ 

QtpRY u rmve oeen - ^iii have been done. 

pa., th^t va. deleted ^^rthTJ^/r ''^-^ 
In t.r..s Of objective;, fo^ ILL";? "^^'"^ '° '^"^ 

A...rii;i;:Hp the ea:t:?: ::ab:::d'^^ru ri"? ^^^^"^ ^'^'^^-^"^ 

it va.„H eancoued tecau». U ^r^;!^';' ov''or.u£'rr'h';'"h ' ' " 
M-rTLCTON s,, :v. ecrrj-, I S-n't 

(ii:;a} W.VC./2 

Q'^RV trans fered. 

previous nights - lu'.JVugh rlJI/'f"'''™ »" Of 

^::^:.r^-r^ ^^^^^^^^ 

that they „,„ ver, .^o.L'rand'";:;'!?, ef"" '"^ " =""-'--a-a, ..,i„, 

thono as realistic ^' ^osa'iMc IV "'^^^ '^^^^^^^ '^'1 ve t^y' o 
off.ct.-, and 1 suspect that'those ^rt^o/fH ''"^^^ ^^ro g 



Tlmc^: 17:1,8 Cm\ 3^ :2^ OCT 


inunlcating vlth each ot.he^? ZlTrT. ;"'/?f/°«'«'"«-^^ ^een cc,- 

LITTLErrON No the; ha^e nL ' ^^ '^^'^ ^^^^ 

^-•-^-t^vithin range for'tL VTf? to '''' '^'^^^ ' 

'""rr^T'^v^^ - -nhinr:.::rs:rr ^^^^ — ^--^ 

yea. They did corru-nunlcate ( diHn'fT;'''!'*^^ " ^^^"^ ^ - 

r happened to be busy at trie time but J"" ^1"^ conversation because 
/vnd it was the kind if thing youVSt 1^ /'"^'^^^ Interpreted, 
congratulations on your succe^s^ru-l!? f J^nov 
see you up here a^d^o fo^ rina so L ji^t"" vl" '"t '^^^ " 

greetings as if you met somebody on SJ^f . 7 ^""^^ Pleaaant 
QUERY w!,.. ^ °" street aljaost. 

UmirrON No! ''^^ "'""^^ -P--t they vereT 

- at vhat height in 3?a":t;"':iL":'lJn;er'i'f '^'^ 
"ran''"''' "^^^ teXo place? °^ ^''^^ 

HeeplnK condition as if co^i. ^p o^er foutl T''.'' "^^^ « ^'-^i-" 

Ocean. ^ Aaerica and into the Atlantic 

that ^'^^^^ '^^^''^^"S take place over Europe, is 

E^u-opo:''*''lt could t Je'place'a'li'Jtl'' '^^^^ '^^"^-'^ 
hov ..icKly they arf :b?e t" ge i^^.s^Uior^'S'^ l^'fl' °" 
activated. * position end get their systems 

QUEny Right. 

Ql^py ^ ^ ^^^^^^ earlier. 

a story that ?h"\aer:p" Joc'et tL"''''' ''''' ''''' f^-^^^) 
unch. ,.v. you had ^IZ^^f^' ^t^T" '^f^'"^ be_p.epared 

Kr launch. ..V. you had-a.;;To;^.M;:uo^i::r.^:f"^/:,^^^-p-^^ ■ 

fjwff. jjo^ — -"a-, wz any information? 

lln^. hafl Effect or^hrr!l^r"" /^""^ °^ ^'^^ ^^l^vs In the time 
or the cal ibraUon ^d ^'ce c* 1 fH:^ scientific experinenU 

cr-vr.*.nheru vr,rc prestLTabW nf!r ? ! *fterncon in vhieh all three 
- ^ae height -.e'ae^™^ • It ^HhS'^t ^l''"'^ ^^'^'^^^'^ 
»'*n.a« on the height of the d;?King r-oSe «o l^ll'^Tu f ^"^'^ 

I.injm«?i chav Th^ «i^f f^^^' «^ 8 that refer tot 

so..- - hopefully r^Ino^^ay/^aybTini^l" '^'^^'^^^'^ ^" 

to nccornpllah this rasteJ" ca^-^iit^^J^f^ Inb^!;' T ^'^^ ''^1- 


Time: 17;1*8 CDT, ^l^:28 GET 


Earth observation pass that Sd'ln«^ «<^fPtlon of this one 
not exactly sure hov those are tJnl t \ ^'^^""^ i^asuremer.ts . I'm 
thafo plained tnat vL ^oo'L'^L^ ' 'V?'- J^'^ ^'"^ 

i^^r'Sue .t:::::r:r '£^?rf- ^^^^^^^ 

UrmrKU Yea l TssLtl ^^^s^enen'.s of the crev.-aembens . 

Of the crevnonbers. ^ '^^^r vere measuring the heiph. 

^^^^ i^^'f ^""^ ^ignt over here. 

FRANK While • uvLT nere. 

r..i.jrt. „r the ,.robien! ^ ""^ "oivle "a vh.fa the 

I,I7TLtT0S The n.ture of the proble. - . 

Time: 17:53 CUT, 3h:33 GET 
Date : 7/16/75 

QITER/ _ _ What's, what are the temperatures lik.^ in thp 

module and vhat'a the nature of the probler.7 

. ^^^^ Well - the nature of the problem Is that ve Havp 

have BO mar.y - so much e.uifxnent on and povered up that ^e Ire r^r! 'n^ 

n the spa'ecra4 ^^2^ "vlT ''T ^"^^^ the temperature In the cor.. - 
nlicatr?Sat7f^/!h /vn I "^^^ xr^eaaurements that ve get 

iv f ir i J s about 70 degrees in the areas where the aensor is 
which - is, is really not acre than two or three degrees war^r tha^' 
than we nonnally see it. although I'm certainly not's^ing^[ JSrcr'ew 
is - is not uncomfortable. Because they n:ust be. They 'vf said LZ . 
couple of consments about it. ve saia - maae a 

QUERY What kind of time line arp va ir^ov^^^ «- 

T«> ♦Vidi-o V , "itj'c jiue are we looking at tomorrow? 

13 .here going to be any change - froa the flight plan tine line 

as a rea-olt of todaj" a little difficulties? ' 

Today^^af kind ^ f ^"^-^ ^^'^S* 1» tomorra^s plan. 

•rwjK Thafe right, right. 


u.^ ] . . ^ ^'"^'^ '''"y ^^'^ second Soyuz ie still out ♦here 
H^ykcnir, emd what would be your reaction if it wen? up aLtn fJr 
any reason, other than ar. emergency, during this ai^: ion ' 
th„, .^fv^ . . : 8^^^ ^8^ed that fii*8t part because I - 

Vo.ut "?i!v" '^i' "T''°" '^•'"^ ^^^'■•e ready. ar'd rf:r;ot 

for h! 1;..:^ f ■■ ^^^^.^ ^ co.ntngency situation that would call 
there', "rethinr' "^^.^^^^^^^ -fter a problem develops to^rrov . if 
lhly\r.lTwit\: ^ ''^^^^^^ Then 

icv.^ S'r-^t . I' ^^'^'^uld complete the mission vith the second 

thi cr^^^J'Z/'' "-^f ^ - they launched 

...^.....1 cne after ve nad any need for it - I would - I'd be curious 
an. in what they were doing. I would also feel that ! tSa ' 

f ... >n,pac , en the support of the prlr.ary mission, the ASTP alsBion. 
" -' I garble; 

i . .ri^V ^""^^ irnmedifttely after Soyus launched - in th- air 

o ground, hey were referring to thenaelves as Soyut 21. Have you a^v 

ih. Z^^^'^ ^ ""'"^^ ^^"^ - ^^*t'8 their tenalnoiogy to d»Btln*ra«8n 

called Ooyuz tl. 

^'^^ Any further questions? 

Mm* (u;;a) i'KKSs coumim'Ai 1'cu'e/2 

Time: 17:^,3 CUT, 3'' : 3 i OET 
Palo: 7/16/75 

QUERY Tvo or three hours ago, Tom Stafford caae on and 

sai.i that you wouldn't believe vhat's goii^g to happen - vhat Just hap- 
pened here. And there wea Just a little interchange. Could sonetody 
explain that? ' . , ■ ■ 

PAO Think you understand that? 

FRANK You're right, and I didn't believe when he told me, 

I n not sure I really do understand it. He had a - he was- doing an 
experiment where he had a sample that was located in - in a - the 
cryo freezer. Like a space - kind of a thermos Jug, and when he took 
tne cap off, and there was a sanple already in it very cold. Apparently 
when he took the cap off of it either - and he said thao he and Vance 
were both were getting it out. So I don't know whether they tugged too 
hard or whether or not there was a little pressure that had built up on the 
maide:, - for one reason or other when he took the cap off, the 
little snmplo that was pretty cold, It carae scooting out. and floated arrons 
the Hpacecraft along with some snow and little ice particles. He didn't 
reMly elaborate a lot more than that. We did ask hltn another q.jeation' 
after that as to whether or not he thought he'd pulled too hard or 
whether or not there wa3 some sort of a problem with it. And he really 
didn't know what - he didn't know. So that was about the extent of 
the information ve had about It. 

QUERY When you say a sample, a sample of what? 

SPEAKER - - r y y 


ASTP (USA) PC32-F/1 

Time: 17:58 CDT, 3^=38 GET 


_ -you 3ay the sample, the sample of vhat7 

rTTT J^PON It was electrophoresis. 

S I don't Knovvhat theraater al B- - 

'"''^'oty'"'''' this experis^ent endangered in any vhy by this 

sonevhat casual handling^of ^he 8ample?_ ^^^.^ . ^^/oe that 

LITTUTTON No. I'm ^^^"^'^/^^^f.^J^the sample to go flying 

one sample. I'n. r^'L^'l reafl^don' hi^S f^:? the fev seconds 
rhrttrasirr;rsUu:;ioU:Sfhave .othered it. Bu. rn not sure 

of that. , . ^ fair to say that - that the 

[,^55 I'-'PhtTot^firrl^L^f to tha.. th, probe 

»as used becauBO or tuice- " 

'""TaS"'"- «alt '-f "fJ/^tT.; lulce a.-.d not th. .tra»berri.s 

ih' y vere supposed to be eat-in-. 

-'''s,„.r.f.o. »-„ !■» .oin. by bt-ii ' 

i.., ^ ~«.nr. I L ^SI "?fa=-.. it probacy .« 

v,.-v well have been another tenu i^era. 

that if that vas listed on l^^J^J^^l^,,, plan for the fir.t conv..- 

,..,oj H>^e.n APoUo^and^Soyuzt^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ 

^■;|; V%; It's scheduled In the flight plan. 

Oh that's right.^^^^ ^^^^^ e.:n.:unlcaU0.. chccK 

V'i>t.W.'f-n «.vo spacecraft . 

«STP (USA) vctf-rn 

-■'^■l.' .•,..;t,..,jv ,,. ,., ^*'<' inltUl sreeti.,. "/thing 

, »o' ..Te t.I"*" >i"uu.^rf,' to 

'« -l.ti it. There', w '' the aM,e th.'; ? cr^v 

ASTP (U3A) PC320/1 , , , „^ 
Tlooi 18;03 CM, JkikJOBT 


;r;\.i-rr :re:/.:^M;4 ^^^^^^^^^^^ 

,o to^.rv to -l-„^^^?r":°'infon..tlcn have b.en tape recorded 

p^tiTinvoIved -.„Mo".s t.a/a„d ve .e.ferrad not to have to vait 

t^oje t.„e, to «;;f^/;;:„?r t°/r;:'?^t'.;orins the ..p.e point 

rx..!vac vivjw b.-«e'^''v, what prol'l^ra arose 

if I asB, but I'n curious as to vha. - oi-.e.^y, i- 


' ^'-rlp'ouo 1^ Proble. .as a =apt», lateh pre',:..., 

FBA^^^ - ' "v^*-'-- - tv^p' several tir*;;- 

nnd it failed to capture. «t; -ic v'-.lch vas 

get tne prace a.vaw^e^ .... -n i ^ ^ long lir* to 

iStlVi attached tae b-xV:; s-t tne ...... 

ROt Bcne cf the transcripts of the talK ^hat l« 

C '- ■ " ^vi, ^_ v^ae^i'.n -■^ny-t^cl Center, 

Arc you .ef.Tu-i.g —i-'fe .. „„,,ic» v'-u tell us vhetr.'^r 

i,rcrn.aMor. that is beit:g ----f^. I;;^ "l^J^^ llevB coerat. az.d 
thtn-. so... di..ere..e ^e- ee ^^^^^ ^^^^ 

vour r.l^^-'xon center.- '..F^ra.., l^.'-^- 

States aiva vhat happens in ..ussia. _ ^j,^. general. 

Fl^NK i^^* ■■^ ^''T V, ""f t rii.nt i hHven't been 

Vii let Frar:K talk about vhafs happen. a in J;^ ^ ^ night 

relieving the exchanges -J-f ^^^^^.^^^^ '^j! •t^net-ned^thin,. . Well, 

ju;n to ge*. any Jnfv,..Av..n ... ^ t ^, _ v^^j-o^ this yr-Je-t, ana 
is i earning scrnething. ^^t^'te . .„ ^c^ thev conduct 

, . ,iat.,» oof ' A" better uj.'if rstanai-.s, o< 'i'-" 

T tv.l-';V. tn&t gct-.e.. ot. u ,..,.^..vinff 'hft vc^ild surprise 

• .>i;„v,* c ri-!» differences are <..^ . Hf. r 
thetr 'Ugh'.s. lue .^iii^-- 4, ^r^,.-.- in the - In the design or 

,.u, vhen :,;ra^^1. i - h.v'-Lv; ^re capability 

spacecraft, that^-ne/ a^^ ! ^P^ratin^; the spacecraft from th. 
of :ontrojUng J*^^:; ' '^/^"I^i^Hay different « t. the 
«---vi. Tn.s pauses yu. . ,.aXe a^-^.^ > ^^^^^ ..fference .re th. 
op.:---:;n ana tn« thlnge f f,. .peoific lr..tH.nce3, why don't 

■^i-yu ih-it ve've seen here, .vs la. -f 

' vt . ^-t anyth'.r.,- on if. ^u-h ^ <■ ^'^'tf 

. , :.v':,...3 b e;. si-:i:. the nor. ^f '^^'^^^ 

• ; (n ai-T'la* ions . ■Asi'le frc. .i^iierM- 
• . . i-.'^-. *vp ."(..-aHcng lf?tvser-. tne r_on-i ^. .i,fi..eio w 

"er;;;:--"'"- "Sri. '.'ten". .... an » .,.r. of ar..t» yo„ «y 



ASPT (USA) PC320/2 

Tirae: i8:03 CDT 3kiU3 GET 


difficulties, reneabering that Conrad had to make six attenpta on 
SKylab II. Have you set any limit to the number of attempts that 
you l-L make if you ao run into probleais toiuorrow? 

¥EMK Yea. We plan to vork as late as three orbit-, late 

in att^-Riptin« to dock toiiiorrov. If ve get - i8 it three opportunities 
or throe orbits? 

^5I'Kft Three revs. 

^■R^«K Three revs. Okay, l^^re nre throe rova that we 

-.rt w.llintr to continue to try to dock tocsorrow. If ve don't aucconj 
'-heri. v.. plan to move back avay frora the Soyuz, set up ctune stable- 
■ rlnt ronditions, that is, conditions vhere ve vould maintain about 
-he niiB!o relative position at some safe distanct, and give the crevs 


ASTP (USA) PC32H/1 ^ _ 
^iie: 18:08 COT. 3U:U8 GET 

in a status l-oani containing i^^^'^^^/'J.^J; Could you say in sone detail 

like to kno.. three tMng. !,;,p^°Jed on that board and describe 

categories of i/^-'^^,^:, .^^^fs oaeoS vho punches it into a 

%p^?t:r:?cK::ri;. "n^f o. .ses have you put tUat boar, to 

rormaUon that ^oul^f ^^^^t^h^ a^rL Part of the closed circuit 

-^^ ^>»«>v« it under trr? wTi".ciu. »va jjtat^is or tne 

television system. He P^^-'^^t^t'-^ny^Las , and any implications 
.,ve on that .eiax, t..y fi.--.^ '-^e 

gjEBY Or vliotefsr. 

,h„re' I lon't i"'-" " f ' "'tLl »f ""t«ve.n th. control center.. 

'".•^lenBlvay betve... the ■„''tHe TV .y.te. ia .-o.t kind 

7 l- tMnp mat's being tiwek >^''" ,/,° r'^\> laytSii"" that has 
^■..^■cc ■les- Bpeclalists are providing „. „ig^t directors 

iVdfrret 1,.;." IS "elnB conducted beW.en the jo, n. ni«h 

.,1u'l the sa«e s> accord;., to the pl«>? 

*f oad of th "^sll^nrs i. a. hi*, as the .or. .cad or -he 
5;„ioan a,t....on.uta • - ^'hld to sa, ^^^liJ^'^r ' 
... iiTaJ that th. "--^i'„r=r 1"^'. ^hl :^"ecr.' ; ^J;^. 

;;:vre'ri=;drir.^i.rvu;:'e:; 'riLnts s^^^^^^^^^ 

i cally rel^cta^t to sa, ="!>:''-tir,\he^ P^nd in OP""-'"^ '"T" 
^ inpre.sion of »hrt It's - .h. tl-e the, ^P ^^^^ ^^^^^ 

-raft and conducting the fllfcnt piiu 

'i'ioe: 18:08 COT, 314:1,0 GET 

I Ju8t vondered if that is the c^f < J thl ^"f"*" broadcaat home, 
progra-ns to the Soviet Union ^ "^^"^ transcripts for 

theIr''^evl3io« pro^rL lor lZ\TtTJ^"'' ""^J^^ °f 
even for our consLpfir ?Je crei JL^e^S!^'^^" ^^'^ ' ' Sue.S 
read through a coanentarv has prepared a scenario that they 

Planned out. AnHrthe^-s^'f J^mfLte'^if fairly veL 

the five minutes. """^^ Pftss and this thing is - covers 

to thif Xind Of acti^tjr ^^'^ '° "^^^ <ievoted 

Sm '"f" preparing for that? 

w^i, e'ouid^^'"'^'" broadeant.. 
n.->Ucr..J tha' for o*«mn ^ an estimate of that . I 've 

V una., .or example on the day vhe»-e ve -i-i <p's ■ 
tne uii-jocking activities . there vere at iL J ?k expenmc-nL, 
Soviet Union vhere that qnrt or vuf ^ ^"^^^^ P'^^se.T over the 

probably ty^- -^al of t M ^ ? ''^ that's 

a'f OF TAPE 

Ai?TP (USA) PG32171 

Tine: l8:13 CDT, 3^:5'^ GET 

Datft: 7/i6/Y5 

. ^^^^ - - y^-a. typical of the highly active Joint activity 

periodg here. 

PAO Get John in here and then - 

'^^'^^ Can you give us some idea here of how much larger, 

ir nny, the staff will be In the MOCR. and Bepnrately in the mission 
riupport rooms, during the docUng and the couple of its ovn activities, 
ccmpured with today and yesterdeor? 

PiANK Hov much lavger what? 

^^^"^ Will the:-e be aore people on duty in the control 

center, - vhei: the' when the decking is nearer, and such activities 
tnat are involved in the shift? 

^y^^ ^ I don't think v.heie will be ar.y different. Do you? 

SPEAKER That one reivdezroua support unit ig all. 

^i^f^iK Not, not reall, any difference. 

^^'^^ ^ ycu kno--* the oistance, roughly, the other Russian 

spec-? - spacecraft vhat's up there - vi31 they able to see visual - 
Visually £;ee the - r^^ndezvous or dockii.g or anything? 

^--N ^'a s'-ire they wont be able to - to see it visuallv, 

WKPY Rcu'shiy, how far wil.'. they be? 

FRAIJK At the time of - 

QirSRY Or at any - 

FRAVK It varies considerable fi-on the - the closest they ever 

come is like 70 tiles. And it's up sevtral hundred niles, at the most 
extreir-e points - it's - it's - highly variable with tine. 

QUBRY Thank you. 

'/ou recall Senator Proviidre had a CIA expert, who 
claimed that the presenc ■ -^f this other Soyuz in orbit was ^oint? to 
cause problems. Have you seen any indications of anythlnc like this? 

FKAIfK No, l^ot at all. 

QUERY Do you have - an approximate idea of - of about what 

tine tomorrow you'd expect Apolio and Soyuz to cone within visual range 
of each other - either of seeing the spacecraft or seeing the docking lights 

^^i'^' Yea, I could get that out of the flight plan - they 

voald start soEe sextant soae tracking - Apolio will track the Soyuz Rt a 
very specific tine there in the flight plan. 

^K'^'^ Apparently for the first tine, the Soyuz space- 

craft is communicating wiVn her ground statlcn - throughout the world, 
in Australia and in Madrid. Do you anticipate chat the Russian will 
for the fut-ore can fllgiits, also use foreign ground stations? 

^'^■^-'''^ ^ - I really doubt It, unless it was in soniething 

lise this, soasfi sort of a Joint aJsaion. I - I think that - that Just 
the probleas of negot.iating, and all that would probably not be worth 
while for th'^m. 

'A-'^^^ tbctending coverage that they g-t , it n^ost give them 

nore flexibility. 

^''^^ "I'es, I'm sure it does. They have two ships i - 

ASTP (USA) T0321/2 

'^irx: 18:13 CDT, 3l»:53 GET 

Date: 7/^6/75 

Smk Jr-'no'°' '^'^^ tlnzes up? 

let it ^p^rate. ' ^^^'^^ " " Just right ax.d ve wa:,t to 

I wanted to - - 

eypn,^« -^.-^ -A"'^ -'O'-^ "light plar o 

^^^B^ ^'^^i place? -'^■'"^ 

nrst bur. in the morning Ld't^f! -'^rks are scheduled after th. 

or a iittle «-ter a:00 v??i ^ " ^ 's at - central davlicht f.. 

sohodule-'i r-^? ' '""C ? burn which 7 

and '=tLt J.' '"^"^ a^'ter the burn • hev n LL "^^^'■''■^ly 

and .turi atteinpting to do sextant m>-ks '^^^ squared avny 

J- they are reaiv ♦•o Havo „ i . T ^""^firiuers to 

t^iat the exact point of d^ck^n' J! ^^^^^P- ^nd that'" vhv 

that the exact porr 7Z^rT:: ^ f^^'^'^^ ' ^^H^^; vh-- 

^-if t? • -^-^ - you're still talhing no sooner 

iam ^^"^ -i^^-i Biting. 

LI-'arTr.: -^'^ siting. 

i^i.ibr.iO?* Yes, right. 

m> OF TATE "^^^ '-^o smaU for the earner.. - - 



Time: l8:l8 CDT, 3^:58 GET 


QUERY - - you're still talking no sooner than MC2, right? 

QUERY For - - 

LITTLETON For the first visual siting. 

Q''Kf-:Y For sextant siting vhich vould be too Small for 

t.fif.' ciMf:cii or oyeboll to see without an optical instniaent. 
(.rrPLKl'ON Yes. 

'i'^i'<HY When, vhon vould you say would he the first tine 

t.hc nci'Tn (>>• tjic oyoball might see the other spacecraft? 

f,n'!l,D;i'ON Probably, during - ^»fter the final SPS burn and 

'liiTiiiK the final brooking phase. 

(iUh.HY Afu>r TPI , after TPI and TPS? 

Livrunm yps. it would be - 

i''i^''^NK - - you know the tracking is done with the light 

thr-ugh the sextant or elac through the reflected, sun reflected light 
un, on the iloyuz , so they, they'll see some reflection out there. If 
•j'ju'r^ talking about being able to discern what the shape and that sort 
or thing id I'n sure it would be after the, the PTI burn, well in there 
tcvard the terminal phase. 

Ql'^^i^Y I have the cosnoneuts scheduled to wake up tomorrow 

at what appears to n\e to be about 3 hours before the astronauts. 

FRA.%'K Veil, I'n not sure why it's 3 hours. Their sleep 

period has been perturbed in one direction and our crew's sleep period 
has been perturbed in the other norraal and I-we Just took a few days to 
work then out to where they caffie together and they're still working on 
that ]:: the only thing I can say. 

IM'l'i.i'loH "inn, Baykonir is 11 hours from Houston and they're 

"()vinfr: ifi on-- 'iirection ana we're moving in the other and, and it, it 
.[wtt !.:?■' ^ important to r;ot then, those two particular things tcgetVjer 
' '-.v. long as they are both awake at the right timvs. 

Q'-J^f^'/ But they do co-ne together once we're decked? 

Okay, if there are not further questions, thank you. 

f.nn OF TAPE 

Houston, Texas 

ASTP Change-of-Shift Debriefing #6 
Lynaon b. Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texas 
^:05 a.ffi. CUT 

<Juiy 16, 1975 


Donald R. Puddy, AST? Tean 3 Fli^^ht - * 

^-id-ce i Navigatfin'o^fc;: ^"^ 
Charles Redmond. Public Af?alrs Officer 

Time: 06; 09 CDT 


P^DY Okay. 

veil tackle It the v^W did ^estf:.'''^'^ Co,n I thini ve might as 
the night's activities. ^^^^erday , vith Don briefly goi^ over 

tMs^nls is ins'tTUT7nre°tL '^-^ out vith 

of those activities that ver« rT^f * ^^'^^ * '^o^aon 'i'^^ra tardier 

actions Via be taKen to c:t"h those^'iT.'^'"^' yeaterd^.. vh"f 

a maneuver that I think I briefly .^^n*"? ^ This is merely ve try to detenaine the e^Jct ^l^^r"^ .'^ .vaster iay aornLg 
instrment vith respect to the sta^ t^L '^^^ par^iJular ^' 

•^e had tvo of those Dart ,>„ -To ''^ ^ ^i^S as a target 

one scheduled on ^.TT^o ^Zx'^f^^' "^e^e ^s^S^ther 

- in the deletion of that partJculS '""t ^''^ ^'^^^^^ 

It was done yesterday, vifhout ! w and that's tfie reason 

on acconplishins the'^^ne o'n d' 5 ve?f.^J'""\^'°'^- ^^'"^ P^Mrg 
pointing, and of course, our Hrf^ Ict^IT S-'^"' '"^"•'^ ^^^^ect 

cf day b. Ve also lost one Earth R^o ""'^ --^ ^'^^ inormn« 

vhich vas over the US. l"; tTl,^^^''^''^^ capping pass. =2V' 15^6 
to sched^ae that particula^ covera ! V^T^ T"" ^'^ ^ ^ 'able 

easure^ents scheduled on the cre^;^^*?;- ^? ^^^^ ^^^e sc«ne helghf 
to ground this Earning, ve have !^!o; I •^-''-^e been folloving ail- 
Vance Br^-nd, earlier in th* !J obtained one data oolnt 
point on hi; to,ll-:VATl,^^^^^^^^^ ,,,, 
probieBs are conrerr.o^ «rev schedul* Ao ^ 

was, that the crev is having a littl.1 ?ff T ^ *° ^""^'-^^ yesterday 
front cover on the heat ehJoud c /'^^^f ^^^"^'^ ^^osing'the outMde 
a single oal fax t^^e connector tV I. . ^""^'^'^^^^n^^*. 'There iJ 
-rning they reported ^hTSL^^'^d 1^^' doo^ s 

^dule fsic) and pushed a llt?if J gone bacK dcvn into the descent 
the door tuid he did ; harder on the door, nie-^^r! , 

-Ked the c?ev to'^lI^rVJ^ ,e'^:r^%1:L'^\\"^''^ -ch^I:;^ ".rhavT 
shroud and there is already rstra. :'^^/^ °' ^^'^^^ ^'^«t 

that ve can Just sving the at^!^ ! ^® '-^st l^^.r, such 

««<i that viu hold it shut So tbT".^"' that Velcro pad 

there I have a plot Je of that ' [f ^ T/'^^'f '^^'^^ - 
I il be nore than happy to sh^\^, - it ay de/icription v^sn't clear 
after ve finish here of liZ ^ ^ °^ ^^^^ that l-^s lilt 

the heliun line rrZ^2%^ltl ^Pf^^^tly have son:e sort a leL 
you've probably been b b\>- basically, thoee - I ^hi^^ " 

have a heat upfate. a pas% cS 'L°" exactly hov it vorks. but^e 
part Of the cycle ^^JT^i^"^ l^'' "^'"^ to the last 

h^Sliuiii. And, the helii^ allov^ f/f^^ f" the furrace, ve inject 

tiae. It P.ppears that that helium i« i! v* '**''^ ''^^^'^'^ t^'* allott-d 
cooldovn is not as fast as anticl^JL^^"^ ^ * result ol; 

toda:. is that Since the a^pJe t^^t • a^l f?"?"^^*^ taken^ 
to taAc longer to cool - > ^ Presently in there, is going 

KfD 0? TAPE 

ASTP (USA) PC3i4-B/l 
Time: 06:09 CDT 

PLTDDY and t d 

in there, is going to take wj^o^^l;/.*"" ^"^P^^ i« presently 
earlier this morning to Inat^U L!?>, ^"'^ ^« Planned 

during the firn trLfeifto ins^:i*J\^:t?^^- ^^'er totsy, 

thia md-sample and planned to go a^ead ^'f deleted 
as far as furnace operations get back on the time line 

conducted jointly w?th1;^rL^i^nS^^^^ -tivlty t"a 'is * 

as a possible fix for the fact 1^ ^^"^ tranafer. As far 

are Changing our procedures siilJtIv f ^^"^ helium lea,^ . 
as the injection '.diun'r'^opj^f ^'^^ instead of hej,!.. 

the leak viU not show up. ?eke hlt\^ t '^^'^^^^ that possibly 

ana has cycled 2 valves fhat Se Jn seHe^s "^r" <^-««nt^d^r 
the heliua to be vented overboard w».L " ^" ^^'^^ ^^^^ does allov 
make sure that there vas n ' ? ^^f i b^!'^ ^<^^'ted overboard to 

thing Of that nature in th^t a'T^! 

be corrected by itself. As far as t^f r' P^''^-^' Problen vili 

Just exactly vhat ve talk-^ L ""^^^ ^^oncerned, I thlrA 

'iay. you found that the pr^be vL Lt ^.'I ^'''''"'^ ^^'"^ ^-^ter- 
vent to bed on tirne last night a^ I f^^^^-^ ^^oved. 'n.e creJ 
^0:20 local ti:.e. However abo-!t I I ' * ^^fr^'*^ abound - 

they had a mster ala™ Jere no^Tf ^^^r^f^^Y vent to sleep, 

spacecraft that we felt coSd hive 'L,\*..'^ condition the 

probably - some sort of a transit "aster alara. It wL 

ve did get an ISS warning ndLation SI^' ^ '^^^^^ °^ ^^^^^^ ^ate^, 
review the data. I thin:r.-r.rnjettv w! f "^^^^^^^ 
problem similar to the one that le lS h! f°"^i»^«d that this is a 
- actually had a failure in the CW ^fn ' ^^^^"^ -"^re we had 
-d not one associated with III ^i^" ^^^^eoti on logic. Itself'!" 
a few core words on that. ^"if^ent. Gary, you na;^ want to sav 

Ci>U is the coupling datatni t^^^Ind^ CDU is. The 
convert IMU attituLs into digital irL'rLTf°'^ i« 
^ari tell in what direction thf vSii?! f^^^^"' '° the computer 

in it detects several types of f:^:^:,'^ rAT^' '^^ ^^^-^^^i^ losic 
-ogic. If s transistors. diodec r^Tf!; ^""^ hardware detection 

this detection logic decides 'when t^ ."" '^^^ ^^"^ ^f^i'^^- 
^.Signal to the coznpufer. Wherthe c4t![! ' ^"^^ ^-"^s 

lights the alanns that Don told you 27f J''^' ^'^^ ' 

tlon logic is faulty. We S-e donf^hat we * an' ''''' 
prellDinary fashion, to see if th«rf / least on a 

J-lieve that-s the ease. We'll L doin '^^^^ '^'^y^ And we 
to make sure that that's rlKht ktt'^ ''^f detailed review, 

questions - about as auch af J; J?;' ? "'^^•^ " ^^^^ you have a^y 

ASTP (USA) rC3U-B/& 
Time: 06:09 CDT 

othet* one that has bt-en discussed vith you briefly - and I vnnt to make 
sure tha^ ve hA're e coaison underatsJidi ng of vhat the problem is. Ard 
that 'a associatovi vi+h the Soyuz TV caaera. To give you a little 
background there, .l^t -ex 3ay that onboar<i their spacecraft vc h 
TV cameras^ One, wr.ich is designated as 1K-1, is a portable TV caaerp. 
which is presenxly locattil in the orbital module. TK-2, which is the 
one that we disnussed vith :-'p;i, that ve thoiight had sccie sort of a 
fai litre cscde - or at l<'&fi*.,'s vhat had bepn reported to us as a 
possit?.llty, Tnat's fi»^; tho iescent vehicle and is a black and 
ip^hite cxTi^ra. They aldo hR^-^i: If -3, vhich is f>. portable colo;* - 


ASTP (USA) PC3><C/1 
Time: 06:09 COT 

PUUDY -positility. That's fixed io^^hefesrent^ vehicle^ 

and bl^ck and vhite ca«.era. They al80 have TK3 vhich 1« a portable 

color camera i^i TKU which Is a black and vhite camera vhich i* on 
the exterior of the vehicle facing tovarda the co«mAad ttodule. xne 
Russian Control Center along vlth their crev has been doing quite a 
Mt of^tro^ble shooting on that particular pro^len on the last day anu 
a half What they have found out is that there is a coaraon switching 
Lit that all of these caraeraa hooK into and this switching ^i^^hen 
^^s the capability of taking the selected input and routing it to the 
trL. cievtr or transmitter for downlink to the ground. And ix ^.ppears 
that the problem lies not with an;, given camera but with tMs co^n 
3Wi*chir/unit. The fix they coir.e up vlth on that particular proble.-. 
isM go aS^ad and route the canera signals around that particular conn-on 
switching unit box. As far as '^'s flight plan, what we are ex- 

f,-e way of TV coverage, ve have what ve designate as TV 5 vhich is 
sch;d;aed at US hours ar.d 50 minutes ground elapsed time wMch v li oe 
using the rK2 car^era at - and this is going to cover Soyui cities 
a? 50:25 ve have TV 5.1; is the designation of that. Aga n usi.g the 
rr:2 cainera covering the DV the descent vehicle, Soyuz activity, ^s iar 
i we know right now. the plan of attack since that is tnere w th the 
hatch closed, thei- hatch 5 closed, that P"'"^ ^ej^J/^^^^^ 
deleted. Five poin^ one will be deleted froa today's flight plan. 
Another one thafvas planned was TV 8 vhich vas scheduled at 52^hours GET 
ihicfias the conx^nttr, on the docking was the a ca^.ra. 
Jhaf one also will be deleted. TV 9 scheduled at 53=30 ground elapsed 
U«; ts usin, the TK 1 ca^tera. 7ni3 is going to be the Scyuz ccmander 
and the flight engineer consents on the preparaticns^ for^the meeting 
of our crev That one vill go as scheduled and ve also have TV 9 1 
-oaing TK 1 which is actually covering the Apollo comnander. 
Staff ;rd, transferring to the orbital module, .^d that^one vill go 
Is chcdiled. Tney have actually verified that TK 1 and 3 cane r as 
in tMK back around or in this work around procedure tha- I ^en- 
M^ned to vou vhere you actually go out exter or o this circuit box. 
-Thl" have ro^ verified yet TK 2 and TK k. Prior to starting the iV 
I^!";.ftodav" they v?il verify TK 2 and assuming there are no other probler^s 
hJ^: he one; ha( they rhink%hey have right nov that will be the plan of 
*r - !c «<= from tve S-viets today. As far as the Anerican W 
ZTXe U's go g^o o-^c^r planned^ To .ive you a Uttle information today 
nVflTll our activities are concerned. I thirJ. it gees vl thout say ng 
tia' JodL/ iJ a little heavier activity. And yesterday. a« f*'' as the 
fitghtptanning activities are concerned, with our prime onph as is bein^ 
on fh; LndezvSus, the docking, and of course the ^J^, 
-rese-^ Apollo orbit is 123 by 93 with the period being 88.2a. At the 
prese;:rtS our range ^ U 57 nautical ^les behind the Soyuz an. ve - 


ASTP (USA) PC3l'D/l 
Time: O6:09 CDT 

niies behind the Soyuz and have ^2rii\?3°iith'a pS?od of 89.03. 

;jen you Lar these briefings, you ?f "ac^ one fhe .an- 

figures a. far -J/^ra^^^/.^i"^ Mts t^d Taoh Ucr that goes .y 

euvers vo aeke are [sic] going ^'^^^^^S^ .han^i:^. And that's as a 

the range between the Apollo and the ^^ i^ hangup . 

fh» r-aneuvera that we made yesterday, so, wn^n vt. »v,aiv 
result cf the rtaneuvertj i-uau = ^ r,i^„ Mir»> *. ve were laRKing 80me 

*• <nn. a* U57 now and closing fairl/ rapioi/. '-'"^ ""f , 

:»^;:.i;t.i'.vs.-.'-^/c:i:.r, '^^'^^i^:^;^ 

a*-!:' #>Tfiat and were not taken care -jx -.uri.-g .ivt. " 
5 ions that stii. exist ^'^J'^^ ^o-rective combination man- 

r: . 't^it/io ^l":.. ..s:.. ....... »»,hs«^ 

-«r s-'-oriti; viU occur over Guaj!, rcGuix-ADg uivi-v r_<„l finer - 

rl.-^a^ n basically what this one is to provid. are [sic] finer 

final planar ^i^uatm^nts ard to establish a i flJ^^ZJi:,^ .caputed as 
. . » „!■!,. 'ha KCC and the NSrf inaneuvera are eio.« j .a!> -^-^t 
Ana -^^-^ >V;^^^^;,!:^ Hcc. we nov. into NSB vhich the .elliptic man- 
t:'. y .^ched^led at 09:12 Antral Daylight t^n.. Again, 
-'lll-ccnd SFS bum; l6 feet per second; TZ 
'^''":''-''"\:i.r.\:\ III by nautical nil') orbit; and this the 

•-■ of About 10 r.ll«3 rolow the »o>us. i'-t ' i. 

^....-.ut.u fi^r-r^i ff^'it per second; ccc^iii 

.-',.;-of-a-:^ .-.^ b^-.. arc.x,.i _ ^.^ nautical 

b.for. ;:-rora^ v.lley, .:n I rer; :! ^.j . ^!,:S,,..,e orbit- 

re.,... -c th-: .'oyuz Us . I. ^ ^ JJ;-, ; ^ ,,,, rrcm 

■ - ^^^^ '^'-^ tf" ?br4:.."vn:;^A:.fc.'' ^.w^-^- ^..^mg. we have 
t..*?lv-w» but "-n«».i cf the -^>-»a» ^" ■ • • -\ rpl «r.a we end up 

Tiae; 06:09 CDO) 

us in a posture vi.erc -/'^^^^.f/g ^h^uld'^ at about 11:15. 
relative velocity of lero. ^^^^"8/7^^ night plar.. and of 

central daylig^A time J^^^; ^ believe it's from around 

To'JLl. ^l or course I ^^^^f --i^^,: C/s tht .--^'t??^'^ 

thi3 is going to occur ^^^^^'^ .t'lTafter ve complete docKing 

activities are concerned. J"^^*;^^^^ ^^^^t ttoftafer. A^^^ 

ve begin our final P^P^^^^i^^^/^^^^^on will transfer into the docl^xng 

1^30 ?Ms afternoon^taf ord an ^' ^'"^"^^lose 

module. At &i-ound c-.lO this At aix>und 2:1» those 

::vJrage via the ATS ^^^^^J^^ ,^^ti/m^ae -^^^^ 

greetings should occur i'^,^^^ f^'^^^J th* orbii^ aodule and greet 

Shortly thereafter they fra^gfer into the orbital - in to 

Kubasov. yoUoving - ^he transfer ^^^^ 

the descent -rodule, ve viU ha/e fi^g will be presented to 

vu^ be presented to I^onov and ^ JSSR ^^^^ transfer period 

/ -^h^ Q+her activities during this rirs^ transfers 
Stafford, ine o.ner a-"-^ aianlnt!. it'? going ^^-ini- 
inciude the signing, parUal ^^5"^"^* . « certificates, i Joint 

I tiinX to get all the signing 'i^"^' /^J^^^^! . have tvo experi- 
eat pTicd. and sor.e .loint ^^1^^ ^I^lcaTaf'ti^.e. one being the zone 
l^^'L'r^ exchanging lf -*I ^css vhatl would 

foming f^gi- *'°*''^'^^t. /,,Zlee each of the - of the fungi, 
can tSe Petri dishes that have 2 ^^P^^^ Merica.. side, 1 each 

Ttron the United States side and tvo froa ^H; f ^rin^lm hack 1 
LToinB to be -Changed, in oth^r words.^we ^^^^^^ 

frr« our area and 1 froa ^"^^^^^.^ .^^^^.^i experiment and all fo^^^^^ 
sl:^.. we're also, exchanging the ^^^f l/,^^ bringing back 2 
r^e kits ver. f-^^fLnL^a^ ier S ?Ict that ve would go throu^. 
of those Kits, I Mentioned eay^J^^ ^ ^ Russian provided aanples- 
Z operation of the ^arnace - l'^\\lll°[^,r Stafford or after the 
S.»evhere In the order of f^^^^/J,f f4 'rer back into the docking 

'rar-f-r started Stafford will tranai^ pinntes ground 

^rule aTdiy exo^^d hours f^^lf^.^l^^l l^:^ .^.t.^. ^-he orev 
!ta^sed tine, the first transfer ^i^J^^J^^i", th«y are alresdj- start- 
following thU nrat transfer f ^/^f ^^J^ approxi/ately hour, early. 
Ir - out their day n little bit t*"^!^' ^Mr or^sl«e? activities and 
Sy^iiU be entering tLy'll be starting 

toy 20 p.n. this evening, we re ser> nopei ^ ^ vilnout 
?ut\n a're.tful '^^^^ fJSLii, .ore or less, the sa:.e 

aavin*- also, that the Soyua cre^ _ report to you this 

.^hedule. ^at's about all J^'^^'^^^l/f^rve not covered that you would 

like to have questions on, or somr 

,0 as. ih«>. "'ila you.- master alarm offt 

(Garble.) WVmt tl««^l^ ^^tro^a. arcui^d Vj.hO - 
t think the first natter ^^^ut an 

. ,^..d ti.. and the other one was wbtt. la,-y. 

hour 1 hour ^nd » ^^^^^ 

Tine: 06:09 

COEN The first one va3 U3: 20, yeah 

PUDDY That's the on^s that I mentioned to you that ve'd 

gone back and review the data. To the best of wy knowledge , ve have 
not been able to find any indication, y»»&t so ever, in tne spacecraft, 

PUDDY Over here, Lori'is. 


ASTP (USA) PC3l*F/l ' " 

Time: 06:09 CDT 


have not leer, able to find Indication »hatsoe»er In tS bmo.!;!^ 
- t"tnlltf"' » -'y. "-V Short d3J»"" 

SPKR Over here , Morris . 


vnu Z^^.u "'^^^^^ 6«>e8 off of course 

correct^ ^-^ht and something about hia attitude not being 

th. . prdblea that ve briefed you on. Those a,^ 

the indications that indicate to vm, f>>«i. «^ v. . inose are 

with a CDU based on ou^ aSalyBi! ^Tt t^f ^ h*ve some type of ai>omaly 

no probi.. vhatsoei^it" Sa . ;a^tic^lar^l!>' J'^h* 

♦ u_* ti. J -"im Liiia. i-a.ticuiar piece of haraware but vn tVi<nv 

that there la a good iKsaftibim-v ♦■v«4 . j i. <"viwarc out ve tninx 

backup control syatea just to case sure that ^nev ha>i a ^^T^rZ^ ^ \ 

PUDDy w„ are -".-rmAuJ^iii , '^^V^^^-^ a good cont rjl system. 

In other vorr5« ^'^^^^r flying in what ve call CMC control. 

t^nii/Z/t ' J ^""^""^ guidance and navigation system. 4^4 

went to the backup control mode or vhat ve call SCS— 

vifh ^ ^Gar^le) I beard Mr. Brand refer to ao«e problesi 

point! ' "^'^ - ^'''-^ drifted'off :? 

DRcxup systenj. One of those v&s povered off and Vance vaa exnlsinir,^ 
tiL ^* aor^ethlng like 16 degrees off at the 

« ""^"^ attitude - vhat Gary is saylrR 

: r^.J"o: t?:""'f " "-'--^^ ..peet 

ifgu naa tnai B MAu on line and vanasd up. 
SPKR 3mce. 

,Ki, ^^'^^^ - ^'hvV vas it then there the firings? If 

there m& no problem, if u vas o'^lv th^ I T** 

transient, thJn wNy d d ve er ' ujL ^ f ' Ifs only a 

cmtns^i on thait ^ '^^^^ ""^^ ^^^^ '^^^ ^ really: get 

AST? (USA) PC3'+F/2 
Tir;.e: 06:09 CW 

PUDDY We were watching the Jets firing. We thought : 

possibly that there are some correlation between the .Jet firings and 
the fact that the alarm had occurred. So ve eisk for a firing in SCS 
oininum impulses to aee if ve could create an al arts and we couldn't do it, 

SPKR In other words , then - - 

QUERY Oh, I guess then — 

■ SPKR' .Right. 

QUERY — were - they were normal Just in a normal coui-se 

of sLabilizatiori. la that coxrect? 
PUDDY That right. 

QUERY --attitude ccontrol problem that he was trying to 

correct. It wag Just normal. And then you had hlcj punch them up to 
check to - to see if you could get the EAster alarmback? 

COEN That's right. Tc eee if we - we saw the firing 

during nonaal attitude ccntrol, saw t>ie master Jul. arm and they vere 
almost coincident so we ih ought nayba there vak some correlation ^o 
ve asked him to fire the jets agaip. 

QUERY Did he get a correlation? 

PUDDY The first alftna that ve hed, Bruce, ve vent 

back and replayed that data and Gar>', in watching froo the GiC side, 
saw that there were a couple oi' pitch firing that oocturred either at 
or shortly thereafter ve got the naster alarm. Also ve sav a couple 
of firings in and around th<' tise that ve had more lees a series of 
nu-ltiple alarms the second tirae grouping. And not seeing anything wrong 
tfith the hardvare, cur intent was to checkout any possibility. Go 
we Just had him go to th&t control mode, try it and see whether or not 
ve could get the failure to occur and of course it didn't, vhich was 
.?ust what — 


ASTP (USA) PC3'*G/1 
Time: 06:09 CDT 

PUDDY - - time grouping, and not; seeing anything vron.? vUh 

the hardware, our intent vaa 'o check out any possibility. So we Just 
had hio go t6 that control aode, try it, see whether or not we could get 
the failure to occur arid of course, it didn't; which was Just one iaor« 
factor that leads us to believe - although there should' ve been no corre- 
lation between those two - it's one aore factor that U ads us^to bel e%-e 
that we're talking about 8«ne sort of a failure in the detection logic. 

QUERY Okay. If it turns out not to be in the logic although 

you say it really ^p^ars to be, what - and it is in the - in the lU^i 
^c ilogic. but. I guess in the equif^ent Itself - what vo^d - vnat effect 
would that have? I'm not sure I lUlderstand how that would - ^''^n 
if you had a failure, y)U know, a what if... kind of a^question? 

COEK By what if, I would suppose that if you vnat if 'd it, 

you would say that you wouldn't use the CMC to control attitude any aare. 
You would then use the SCS to control the vehicle's attitude. 

QUgPY Could it cause any problem during anything of the 

docking phase or any other factor other than not give - not giving you - 
you wouldn't have your priiae system up. ^ 
' COEH It shouldn't. We've run siciulations on &CS and « re 

^^^^ QUSRY Don, you were talking about the TV' a while ago. I 'u 

Mk^ to^ffo bacK; TV 5 at li8:50 will be done? 

PUrly TV 5 at !.8:50 will be done? TV 5-1 and TV 8 will not 

be done . 

QUERY And 9? 

PUBDY Will be? 

cor-f 9-1 

PUDDY 9.1. 

PAO Okay, also in front, Mike. _ , 

qyery All right. You said that this happened at Apoi.o lOi 

ia it an inherent fault with the piece of equijitent or Is it - did J'-'ne 

exterior agency cause this fault? „,,v,„^ 

pyT)D/ NO, ve - there's no way to knov that either. ...i 

. . . ^ if- t.'n« 'I'^^e a*^'*r th# flight bv t'i'^.ini?. 

analysis tnat was aone uu rtpoxxv vas Uw..e r, r 

the hardware apart and inspecting it. Of course, we won't ^ 

this for A few days, but we'll be able to do it on this vchiuo. ■ 

hard to 4 that it's the sa;ae failure-, it's exhibiting th. .sr., n.r..- 

teristics/so we couldx.'t reallj say that it's ar. external c.u,- * 

aifflUar failure. . j 

QQgj^ To give vou seme idea of the mgnitudc c> -ha. 

fo.;md m Apoilo l5 that created that problem, they fo'^d a conductive 
siUcon p«?ticl« that w^s 1 mil by 5 r^iU, And that' a - was enough, to 

short the diode . ^ , . .v.. - 

Pin)DY Th«re'9 no real reason to a&y that it 8 ^h&v a.^ae 

this time* though. We - - v{>'*tloi 
QUERY Vitftt 1 meant by exterior agency, line Mybe nr.. at ion 

or ft power durge or soiaethlng HKp that. 

ASTP (USA) PC3l»G/2 
Time: 06:09 COT 

p,mT)Y We didn't aee anything that ve cotad correlate it 

with ^ ?hat respect R^n^ber the crev vaB asleep and there vas not too 
.uch ^tion in the vehicle. ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ , 

iv h*.v*. not been able to 'istect on telemetry any po-^er surges of 
?H ;i^Juude thai voSd cause that. Vibration enviromnent, of course, 
•o^ ZfC^iZ S^e conditions during the launch phase that - - 

•pf^Q j.\a-ther questions? 

Let's go have breakfast. 


PirDDY No, ve have had no . ^ . j *.v,.» 

S He^. Don. Can ve start ^1 over? The/ had the 

recorder off. 

PUDOY M)f apologies. ^ 

, . ,. ~.u--rt l-L ihelr rlisht suits, should they nnei to U8e i.. 
ver,t«tive T.-.. r«. 1^ -ne. but ho eiperlencsd none of the syotonsi 

-..^r' :i.,'"°ophvU'ucally^» insurance. But there - the 

he vM just '-"f;,,, yeater'jav Indle.ted that all three crev- 

^:S;?f rellJ^ ^j;n„:"lni or cci.e, .e sa. nothin. durln. any 

of thr; 'iaia that we've received so far - - 


ASTP (USA) rc3n-K/i 
Time: 06, -09 CW 


cours e , 

fron n^erlic^ standpoint tJa?^nX^e. tht ?h 
with the crev. Froa all vc- caS tell .v^^> 5^"^ ar* any type of problems 
SPEAKER Okay ThS . ^iif r ^vf ^ 

uxay. ^f^^^-^oacludeG this m6rnit,g. 3 briefing. 


A3TP Chtuige-cf-Shift Debriefing ,#? 
-yndon 3. Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texas 
^•■'^0 p. a. CDT 
July 17, i< 


Milton RMm, Public Affair. Officer 


•-oday an.i vo Mrtainly look ft>i-v8rd Jo^^^M , P^S"" "f the ^isai„„ 
vouid ycu like to adl „wM^r '° continued success of it. Oiym., 

f^^t. :'ve"noranail:/r:;n < JeVL^'^ ?fj°? ^^^^ here in the 

:^i.:ft.s I u.uall hv,-. ifpa^, "r ^^ Director after the change of 

\ didn't do that be fuL^jt.^f the Smbers; 

the Flight Vj- ICl^sl ^'f thr' f "'"'i ^^"'^ °^ -^tchin^ 

the -.f the next -^ouofe hour! , ^^a^t, i„ 

I vouid t.. that Pv« eilov^r.^f'''''""' that rer^ ins to be seen. 

r...or Kc....anti:; rJs;::;.; ^^-^ ocean ^ro. 

proKrar; f.r t.he .ovi.< ^nl^/i'"'" ^"^"^^r?^^ "sector of the ASIP 
'h.^ he's enj.y..g the d^yVu^^J 'jT/'f.^'^'"','^^ 
over n2^^> sr^^ tulk tc yc. atout It. ^^'^ « pleasure to come 

-'re.'jin Hirul.. '''''' rniercphon.. piease. Start right 

ir. their^e..^.,., < o'^rjf Snlu^ r^"* Bre.hnev and Ford 

'.^-re va. sc«. thing re^uf n^lnd X'V:''^" ^^ure flights as [f 
'It -.his point? ^° -^^^ ^•^•''^ a shoe to drop for us 

- » 

^ili. I dcn't. 


^ad ar.v ^.{J^U^L^t T ^''Jf ^""^^ significance in - or 
r.-;ult ke; I did. ^ ^' ^"'^^'eari the things 

f'^t 4"Trprv5.ico i/iM: : ^m!^.;^^'"^ could probably supple-nent ne. 
certsinly th.' ...edi;.: r^^^rj!'" ^^-^^ 

LE£ i'l'.r^'^.-"'*''! '^"y^^^"^ *o ssy. Glynn? 
'•5>^t -her-. viU b, fli-^t.^n 2^"'^ " '""'''"^ On both 

^rn., t.t'l expect -■ .■ ;/''^":'',;/'^"f;^^- '^"^ '^*t^« at 

f^oin^ tc find 'Wnrji'' n''* maturee, that we're' 

«ini c^f niasioncs Jointly.^"' '"^ " '""'^ P^-^h&ps conduct other 

A5TP (USA) PC36A/J? 

Tine: l6:35 CDT, 57:15 GET 


a^a^tLt vae sent V" fL'^^Lo^^uJs'S^J^" " ^■ 
deal was not included Xn it vaa ^jri^«^ . °^ 6^^^-" 

the country? ^ ^^^^ ''^^'^ in a^^st every paper in 

^^^-f' No, I can't. 

Bruce Hi cits 


vhat IS considered the^'Jer^^'^st 'vlrtfJ;: i different versions of 

ToA spoke, '^.a^ are J I ^ ^^^'^^ "^P^ned and 

history record "s'he flrat vo, df" ' " "^^^ -'^^^ -^^^ 

I doJf feLy :-e.e.L^'^%:'ir'"^i.^^l%: !"!^ '^-^-^ Center. 

^''^ ^'<^> no, I dor-.'t recall'. 

^"'W., Reg. 

better than »he Apollo ^ * ^^^'^ ""^^^^ so such 

^''^ ^-'^■'1° Pf-^« usually worked? 

thinx we learned a crreat r-A* . 

rience Just in terns of h'-w f- h-Hi^ ^7 great deal froa the ApoUo exj-.e- 

fne Af-lo ve 4ei tl'^'.?. V ^ ;s ^" ^^^ition to that with 
of feature.^.to'. t^^^'f^S ".'^'^'/r °' capability in a lot 

fairly c.mrlic^ted rJe'd^' k J ^ therefore gotten 

sv.'^n i. iar.e^ f , ^vrt>. * system ve'r^. nov using, th. new dockir.^; 
forward syZt I " ^^^^ it U a r.ore sl.aigJt. 


Time: l6:l40 CDT, 57:20 QPT 


- < syszem is larger. It probably !.as 

as many parts out It ie a nore straight ro^-vard system 8«d indeed I 
Tn'iJ. 3ucces8fuUy that it operated. I hope that 

in tht future ve fml that that design vorks ao veil as many times as 
ve have to use .t And in fairness, comparing it to the Apollo probe, 
ve S n '""""^^y ^1^^ Apollo probe eJerytime 

QUERY IM like to ask - earlier in the day there vaa talk 

about^cor^unication probleins with niaaicn control due t^ interferencf 
inthira^ear' ' ^"^"^ anticipate any f-arther problejas 

n t V . ^ P^-r-onally vtsn't involved in ail of Ihc discussions 

th.t vent o:i betvee., the -light dire.-tors of the tvo - the Joint flight 

.lear^^d up on the la..-, couple of revolutions. But I can't be real 
.F^^cific_ about :v.-»v that vaa dene. It night have been done by confiR- 
r:':;;^",!': ^^y^--^ -^^^ Soviet side, they took sc«ie Jteps 

V trai^sr-issions that vere interfering. I don't 
tlj-'^"- H.IBO it vas a conbinatio.V of those tvo things. 

i Pete-- ° 

't^^l..^ Wfien Tete comes over, he aay he able to shed raore 

I :^ou.ld ai^ on-:' thing - General Hartong(?) inforced se 

light to that. 

'.""f "t"^^ ^0 cut d::vn all the VHP 121 negahertx^freouencies 

avcid inter fcren.-e vith the AST? prolec* rfjaencies 


V. .^'/V"^^, , ijoiicT 1, 3, 1 aijaost hate to say anything 
i.^ '.t It jxynn, becr.uRe it has been such fantastically successful 

! 'a. proPieci: th voice corjrsunications really did kind o*' 
" f .ni^?*?^*- i^. Possible to vork a switch configuration 

i ay . 

.r&t viii rJlov -is to hear the Sovu 

-'■bjn *>c* ^ f^^^ f r-xl^lc and it is 
" " fi ' , It ic I .annei ^' be used nost 

A. . ox^fy ' r^-i 1- r.r ' nr-.' vn'-n t^ev are eating 

F.Eu„,.ng a trsr.snit, you ^should be hearing the Soyuz 

. irt .v f i'. >-3.- ir.i cat ions 

' * ^ ■ ' - V va« a matt-^r 

■.ev RV> r: 

' " '■ ^ r'-c- .n' -e Hre a lot of switches 

" " a ft-e being ehajftged fairly 
' " ; " ^ ' , ^■•■r crfir-.-anlcating that go on, 

- - -•■ ^--^ „iv.'n, t'tTi sure the fi;'uyp ai-c 

t = * * ).«^, .^.^j. Ruifetion !-ight «.nd - wi nu 

- > r':r Apoilo vorir, and 

. , , A c\.2, t '-rj-i t a" o-pllT, exactlv 

„ p ' *n as .'ju are. 

, "* Mir,,, ... 

, V. J '.n rr. -h, Item that 

' * V ^ jn, . V LOUld. Ve 

r V « ♦ 

*SW (USA) PC3«B/a 

iover prt-ssur*. . , nxe an acetone vm ^ sometimes - 

at 35 poands at the -st ^r,^ • pi"^iJsure. Prev-Jouslv <♦ v.^ v. 

thin:< that the lover'p^^'^irni" f^'^ "^^^^ ^" the mi^h ' 

EpaceerAff +.v„<- . -■^^'^'^i encea that in tKi» oi*,* , i*ii>i, w Tt 

thisZr. 'IT «° the ^educ^d"^^ 

certain od(»- frL H 1^ ^ ^itti^ bi t tV ^^"^ 

they bacK in a c.^— ..n iii'^^,'''^ ^'^'^ "^^^ ^^a-i been an-"?v»,.«^ v . ' 

-any .0 tin« v.:f f::r^ffj!^'^ the ■ 


.--tx.^y r.o tine vhr-n ,11 tv. T . '^^^rse of the flight 

-•ten -he j,o:r-ii2 spacecraft 

and the 

mm ^f^^^-'* occurred? 

;.EF r'*'"- - "^'^TO - 0/er - 

FAO this past - 

^50 «iie3 {garble). -^^"^^^S ^ccu^-red over the AtJanUc Ocean ab. . 
QJUEBY iJcean, about 

t Her.? (fas 2 rinute* ^'!^f to have - over 

f'alf before tln<>, ^^""^^'y. But 

^ ^-:^lu;u. .ot ^^t^l^t-^^^ occu... overtHe .n.,, 
t^'- -i-cking - ^bout ^Po''^^ ^^''t «f Portugal i« >, 

be myre ...eo^le "-^derstandi ng that «f ♦ , 

'-ould only CTV.n, ■ usually "'"^ ^''"^ 

■'•a;: H vioUti-n ir\t " P^^P^*' there T J^. ? ^^'^ command 

.tati.n of the rules of the flig^.t ^"^ndering if that 

Utey ^^ '^ r <=P^n hatch. ' °' ^^'thing th.t. 

'■■''i-^^ people un'in'^^'' -^tateRont that ve make is n 

-eturn to Apollo territ,^^ v '"'"^ P^naltti;^ hen a"' , . 

<-<^^i itorj. , Ifyouvili. Okay, •^''« "era a quick 


-..iH^"?**! . . 6l«yfton boen infomcd of his slater's 

acci4«nt yet - and if not, vhen vill he be? 

Vfhen what? 

LUNNBY !•« uoriy. I dl^«'t knov about it, mya«lf. 

LUNNSy Of his aster's accident. 

v..- , VRs Informed before liftoff . In fact 

.vLy'hl^rwa: nno"' '''''' ''''''' ^^'^ ^^''^ ^^'^^^ 

PAO Victor. 

ty.* ui^f ■ • "'■^ '^^i<?ther ve knov vhat to do to be suro 

that we are nearmg from the Soyua aat-onauts tomrrow? Or is thnt > 

,nTf;vL.. ^ • ^^""'^ ^«^iy fully 

As you hea.-, at tir^s, it is not fully accomplished, 
PAO Mary Bupp. 

?:^f"''„ . ^ sort of curious, rail knev ahead of 

Un. tn.t rora was going to talk to the^ up ther^ sc« - so«ett«* 
And I V8S rather muijed, because there vas a frantic scramble there ' 

I^^M^i^^ ^""^ looked very startled and had to tale 

oC, his headset mia give u to Deke vhen Ford vas speaking to Deke 

^ •^"'^^ r7 vhy they didn't pack in an extra headsH. 

Va;; there jomo technical problen, or vhatever? 

LUNNEi No, no. We have plenty headsets onboard. Aotualiv 

ve ..nev the President v... going to talk to thea sm^tiae. before thai 
^r-IT! - '*'^,^^i«=l -up a configuration that vsi, as slnple - 

«s --traighticrvard. aa ve could. However, ve did not realise that the 
: resident vas ,:oing to speaX ind'Ivldualiy, to each cember, and indeed' 
a::^< encn one or thera a quorftion. And that caused the problea vi^h' 
'..-•se heaasotji, as vou rsav. . ■ - 


3 PEAK El- 
ves . 

.'M.icr.'?. First of all, do I understand 

it- t!;f.' po35ibility that the aricll came from 

Ju3t said it. comes fron a Eaterial like 
furnace . 

rciToctJy - y;-i'v' r:;l*id 
' J'.e furnace V 

th'^t. It ri|?;}it huve u-o.r.o :t-.,>r. the 
. -^'^"-'^ .^'ecoai viestion. Tner-i vas sonething that vas said 

•ir^ J. '1 crycKorao-s varning, dcr.evhere along the line. Then I dldr't 
r.»ar finy r^re about it. U-hafa the situation cn that? 

L.JNNFY We have a varnin>? ilfiht in the cockpit - the 

o'iiticn and warning syste.-^ if. the connand nodule - and it is - it 
:;en.ie3 a nunbor of .rritioal para-'seterij in the spacecraft to trl««er it 
men. 13 a pressure nenaer in all of cur CRYO tanks. But it one 
particular one - t.he pressure senser went down to close to zero a ' 

AS-TP (USA) PC36^Q/3 

Tiiw; X^M COT, 575 25 Q8T , 

«?oupl9 - I think a atfferent times, to4*y « and then cw* back up 
nomftliy. It indicat«a that there's 60ft« Kind of en electrical problem 
VI th Che signal. &ut the fact that it vent dovn to cloae to «ero - 
I think it v*nt to 30 psi, ^ opposed to 900 pei - was, of courae. a 
condition that triggered the light. 3ut ve knov that the tank is okay, 
becayae the pressure und heat vent back up on th* gage and, also, became 
the quantity readings, et cetera, are all normal. So, it vas a faUe 

'^^^^ ^ Veil vhat»8 the function of the tanx? 

GPKAKilR The tank provides the oxygen to the fuel cells, and 

to living - - 

UnD or TAPE 

Ti«»«..^l6:^CW, 57,30 

airm n'f^ ^'''^ i« th.. fr,,„?. rev 

t:'ey were oatin,;. i '-'^-'r.on^.t, v.-. ,,,,, 

. ^'-r. ipxy dull 

*> thv' w to : ! -•"«»>•«• - iiw ««WM„u 

""■rr4i? - - or " that ....V h..-t;':„\::,. 

IXrNNEY J^f, ^« a general sort of vav" 

saving. iou\nor^^^" ^'i^h oe I i^'? ' 

era- ' '•"='^^1'^ say soaethlr,^ u ^' '^"^'^ ^'^a*. he's 

vUh"/ ^^'■^^i'^^^y vondered hov duJii^ft ff" the pre- 

VI tn a group of ren "micult it vould b«? to ^ • ^ 

'-'e expected. We 

to ou^^. ^^-'^^f bee« r '^^''^ oT^?^? ''^"^'^ rj! 

" '^f^'- ■^r^',:''^ ^-^^ t^Ht wo,/,' And 

'-'^^ ^"iiJx it vorked gone t *^ ^^©n - 

-'t T^- ^« P^-eparation ^^'"^ ^oae tiJ« * booster, and 

r>«yiab r,vs^.i~ -^^t to fV,iT..^^ stopped ri«ht f^^' ''P«c<ferart 

and\'n,JW« ve;e ^M^^^^f-^.- ^^^^^'t^ C^f^^^* 

KNO OF TAPE ^"^^'-^^ ^'•^^througha hav.^^ 

ASTP (USA) mem 

mV/n^'^'^ COT, 57,35 m 

ai'e A ouab^r of systeij^ ^e^^^^^^*^''* '^^^^^^ to that j think i>.. 
that got deaigned^rbuiU ti!t^ '^""'^^^ engineering system 

these tvc countries ar.a to hsve th^L ?1 ^^"^ together team (Von> 
'3 coRpIex ya knov - .^«..v.,., ' M^jei.?. or this coiBol^xltv r* 

hardware that haa ♦o v-ork vel ? '^"^ avfm lot c-f 

spacecraft ani the p.t^r^ u^:.. f^^. ^ -^^^Z ^ of the A^iL 
that or the r.ev c.uip^!^ th^' 1^.^'*"' And of top 

true on the ch-r Mi. Vh^v Mf" "'^^''^^opea , but the sarre i. 

^^'th or tho.e eo,.>trle^to, ^h;/,^'^^^^^ ^f^^^^'^*^ the t.J o? 

a^rev ,,,,, ,f to npl.nent the program and 

at^uv^t^^t. ^ - -"fit ine DooKs are going to aay 

tWnk'one ,f the thln«i''f ''''' see some of this r 

this tine spite Of Sat ^^^iona aatoliUe 

them. *i ta«e threo if we couU 't 

LUTiNi^- ri^f.!!"''*'^'^ ^""^ ''^'^ '^^^ 

LEE "e^'/^r'' """^ This- - 

Vr.:,/^'^" * --^ ^ave thea. 

ie'vJrl!;"^;., '^f"^^«^ ««t the« up here 
Prcgra... ^'^^ P'-^t .p there, by the way, for this 

a- Of its'ovr.. vhich"it^hL'conl!itif ^''^^ »P *here for a prograr 
is still in the proceas or'onduc VT^^'" ""'"''^^ and^hf k it 

I' there another satellite today you can use? 

ASTP (USA) P036£/3 

Tl9»j i6»'>^ COT, 57>35 OBT 


VLmtn fardon? 

<^ERY Is there another aateXllte - satfillita yov> ca« 

use today? 

LEE Not fov our system. 

lAWNEY No, ve have th* one aateXllie that our ^pac^craft 

can work vlth today. OKay» there are not 2 of then Hying that our 

spaceeraf t (-an vork with In thia fuahlojt. 

QUKpy Tvo questlona, In the tslsslon to date and In the 

iireparatior.;. for it, havo you learned anything froia the - froa, the 
b?laterlftl aspeetp of thia mission that might be useful In the future - 
in Just in Ajaertcan only miasions? Ami alao, have you thuught of any 
refinemi?nts Inal you'd like to piake in procedurea and routing of cqx- 
taunt cations loops mi so on that you'd use if you run anot.her Jlolnt 

IJiNNEV The wewer to the second question is the nen vho are 

doing that probably havt*, I don't - there's alvays a va^' to improve 
soaething ]ike that, Relative to the first part of your question as 
to whether ve've learned something that'll improve the vt^ we do 
business Internelly, I don't think I could point to axiything specifically 
because ve aitenpted to execute this business in a - you know approxiniately 
I no sarae way ve go about cur business internally. Ve were iitsltpd in 
•„he ■jenat' of you only have much titns to talk to the teaa from th« 
other aide compared to the Kore time tbat we have on our ovn Internal 
prograraa bijt xhe way in vhieh ve vent about it vas apprCxlmately the 
aaiae , 

LEE L<)Uie. 

i^rEHi Yesterday Pete Frank said reluctantly and as 

diplotaatica-lly ao he could that he thinks that the aatronavite' vorkload 
is a heavier or a little faster than the cosmonauts' vorkload. Nov I 
don't vant to enlarge this tc a dlplota&tic incident but at the same tijr.e 
I'd like to ask, gli;ce you've had an opporti'nity to observe instead of 
participate in the direction, have you learned anything about workloade 
or pa<-ing, ar putting contingency plans together fro-a the cossBonauts 
that you think would be valuable I'or the astronauts? 

SPKR Well, I think I would gi%e the sane kind of ajjswer 

I Just did Louie. pltm the work 'vr.d with our astronauts' concurrence, 
of course they are involved in t];ese things, we p)&n the work for thea 
in the- - 

AiJTP (U3A) ?C36m 

1750- - 


7/17/75""*°^ 57,^*0 OET 

other nights. mn't , ycTk^ 2.^*""*'* fo** then in 

the a^unt of vorK expect^ oVpUo s^J'' '"'^ tralnrni'or 

of the fact that we vere flyin« vftH of ^" ftny vay m <i ^^auU 
^hlng thu th. flight crJ^/Z to L'^:'^'" ^ the one 

use with th<j la/,gu««e p-oblom ? f', • course, speni « lot of 
in night. 10 hSve';:« "^^pre luoVJSr' they h^e'to 

not coayieteiy trained, fo? Ix^ni! * they 

•retting .a the configuration ngJ^ J; "^^"^ ^'^e«tlon. you knov, 

riehi. rc'duire.- son.^ crosstalk bSve'en t . T . ^^'*'^''"' 

'.n.. have to vork .t that Pm" ^^^ronaut., and co.nonaut. 

I'iisincsa ar, U3u«l. ^ ^ "^^^ ^-^'t'". '-'^ kind of vent abou^ 

- op^rtunity nZ ^l^Vtl ItuV''^'''' '^^^^^ 
erev. vork and so In your day 0? ^ul .y' ^? '° "^''^ ^he tv.. 
ae.? ar;ything? ■''^ obsemng U, have - do you 

imnKi Well , , 

wen vh.t ve-re Hoine^ to' <l^to1Z: nlLlrl ''''''' ^« -«rUct 

^ entirely different k;nd of job ^o do^] 'I-^'" l^^y win have 
-Dui^. 2 feei ve'U t-rob.blv loMt r. Ki^sion. but. 

vo go about tr.i in« oJr f^^^'t^d^ ^'^^^^^^ ^'•-^ ^bo t the 

fro:. th« Sovm 'idforJ^r/'^ ^^'^ ^^^^'^^^ there vere any 
Particurlarly the 2HiTJ^'', ofuf that^af' 

advi.ed that teonov b« adv sed - iid tJ' qoJfi' ^^^^^ 

, a.y^:thrpr:^i:':,«^^^ - 

-fJ-t. A. a -tter1^r::t/thrv' ^^n:^ that particular 

fi^r.i the project from the HeZ^'nl Jit ''"' ^^''^ '.PProached this 
^.^t *a.h Side vould bring it's olTlrl^^ZTu^ Pre.unptio 
•/.Ti h%rlva--e together to. iV..r.,.m tJ. !^ if-'a ovn spacecraft ar.-i it'. 

.V';- -a also .olv-. cur ov;';:-o\ et" r^rven'll'" the p.ecec. o. JmJ^ 

r.--e.tiaUy hav. an ir^^.t I'd -Jer, 1 . '^^veiopments that 

::.-xn<l like it night hv'c ar. I'St ^ ^'^^"^ vbere it 

we vouIJ trC.e the uLt4 t-rf." f '^^^'-^^ ^ that it 

ve'.o considered it, J i^^^oks li?" »T J? ^--'^ ^^her side 

^^'^ viu be no impact, and that', a r^^te^ cf W ^ ^^^^^^^ to u.s . 

F'^Oi^.e that you're flying v.Uh that tvl^th assuring. I thiaV, 
nornal practice of court«v everything's going okay and Just a 


sh^u-ptofls today befS 'thrsJlTIt * f f.^^f ♦""^^n^iing - an exchange of 
.^K*' I don't krw iraSJ m.'^'^"'^ "^^^^ 'Hrect^^a? 

LUNNfjy that ll^ov Sf' 

listen to that loop *ai the tL^ i?!' J '^^^'^ ^ ^^'^ »>Ut I didi.'t 

*nl I 'Jldn't hear thea. aUh'^ r LnM J ''e^ 
^'KRY ju^t at t^I hi f , ""^^ °^ ^ thing. 

/;^>' ^eii or a lot/i^: v'r jf/r^ff' 

-n^ one or tvo specific th^ns?-. f escape without sav- 

i 6u..a It vas Just - Just very pUa"Int to I ^P^^i"*-^ about tj^t. 

- thing, have ,one .o far tod^/ i uaa vLv I ^'^^^ ^^'^ ^^^^i 

« tn t,.. iaunchlng of both spacecraft vh^K^ ^^^'^^^ ^^"^ ^-^^ 
oJ it. I vag ver/ pieaaei vif^fv ' '^"^ ' °^ course, the start 
auri.« :-enio.VoS'p^:^er'1 vaJ ^'ll^ Apollo '.paco:^:^ 

operatior. of the Apollo drckfni Pleased, by the vav vith 

ani .irogue, especially todS 'itf n'v '^'^ ''^^ ^'^i^'^' P^ob^ 

the .ev aockin« sy'te^^.d then the "fl'^ f^\^^'^'^^«^ ^^^H the operation 
on .en. lul. and appr.xi^t.iyl'^ ^,^^/j^^^^^«^ the transfer. ^«ve ^one 

app..ontly en^oyin, the.3elv:;\r^:.f J^^' J^^^ that th. 
to ex^;!,; .oxething'to";:o^v?' io'voirKnI;?.f'''e^' '^"^ of gesturing 

^-^^ • 

T|;tf UU vIth'hi3laS.f^t:^^r; ^^ft^J^" ^^t--^' 
/^'-^Py Vn..n you experienced 'iZ ^^^^ vhat he's saying. 

»P vita th^- Odor in the .pacecJ!^^^' v P^^^^""- you cleared if 
'i;'n^tT the cr.v. the 8ov et ^Lff o^Tv '^''^ ^'"^ ^ presented no 
'.hat at fare value, or did ?e- ^tX- • ^^'^ they Just a.cp* 

' ' "^^^ ^'"^'^ ^'^y^- ve better hold or>on 7okiZ> 


f^^rp (USA) mOQ/i 

mm/^''^^ COT, 57.i.5 q£T 

a'^c^pt th*t «t aee vaurofdirtj^^ ^l<i they ju«t 

^-----^ ^-rvi ^"^^^^^^^^ "-^ 

QHvp.^ pi-obxfM. v^9a&ea to heiir that arul 

!,;i;;s-' ' ""n^yo that, 3, „ 

they eorae ta.-h . •.^../f,''^ ' J"^^ ^^'''^ si?con<J tart ym, sv^.,, , . 

however, n.,' .-■u/lw ^'''' P^^t, I ..tjn thi^J"^'"^^ them vhen 

about futiJiY- -r^- another aueqt f-^r ^1 

Umm" "^'i^'r^]^^ ■^^^■tain. to Keep the Xnovledg^ 

--••"-•"'-'s:, -IhBt- ,.v ^f^^* ^'"^^ said about fj...**, 

nyiap tf,e ^rr-'i-'^r ^^'^^^ vouU exc^^; f -guttle schedule ia 

t-h' -^'^ ^'^^-^ ^^rne nor. work^fr^-^^ operationally 

■n. 3h;Utle tested ^fr'^!"' ^^^S^nf buH t'' 

'■^•^-^'nned spaeenig^ ^''v^^ ^^^Vtln^e Job C tst f ating 

'err.F of work 'hfM^ mi althcush Ve LT \ i P^^P^^ ir; 

'"8 --■'•>. "ly sort cf ce.sasi. 

IMME-f rr.. , . " cioar that uj>, 

iftauk you. 

nous ton, T»x*9 

»:Un^or. B. Johnson '! 

'i<^^ii;ton. Texas 
-^'4ly i7, 1975 

■json Space C.-ni,. 


Antitoii I>ob,ynin. -ovlet 

>-^j trie unSterl Stst 

TJffie: i3a3 CW, ^3? 53 OCT 
V/ 17/75 

stUilSfTn ...n ; T ^J^^'i^"' ^ 'J^'n't vant to aoun<i very aunr- 

^ P''*'^'''' ' * ^'''Wy Bound mi soft. len*ing. 

ppyrin; y^.^,^ i.-prt-i^aicn is thut Earth, juj such, is peaceful 

iiarry Bobroae. 

, , ^''^'l ^ '-'^ ^^-^ '^^F^ vhen you oaee ever to waw farevell 

'n. astron^.t. ax^d I icnov of your activities thor. here^ you 
tel. -x.U..adcr SUesseK?) aid sinMlar thing, Bayi^nmV ' e 

present vnen th^ cosn^onauts left anJ ether activities? y^*^""* • ''"^ 

! ..';^KiHi!j I ccuHn't give ycu r.inute by snlnute account of actj-, 

J^-es A«,r, Vut I c.u^.i tell you one thin^ nrat V 
v.. .y.o:v.r area; second, he va. give, qui te' an hcnor i^^^ ^^tr.: 
;S say. de was pisnto-i tr*e in a leg(T) of bushe. there in t^e Uy- 
.... ...r area, were cur no.t fa«.ua r«rle - people did ,o there and ll JZ, 

: -r^:- --^^ ^ S^-^^ -^/^-tol (^artU) betvee?. two countries 

r .... .^ace ..>r,ter. giving sor. expU.ation or receiving scZ e^^,.- 
' ^ba..ador vh; ..countered hie. fhafa aU Tcan tell 

y :r J , 

.., .i^ait for the sicrophone please. 

, . ""'^'^^^ ^^^^^''-^ssia lai^nch ifs next rc-kot? When vi 11 
launch its next rocket? wnen v*.it 

DA»Rv.ini rocket? 

GFEAKO I really ::Iorrt >rv3v. But I 'is sure vo'a - ycu oculd 

.ro.exy. .u..ver through oar pr.Bs people here. I don't f.l lev the net(? ' . 
:-ut -^'n_3iiro it vi U be not far ava;.'. "^m f . , 

?A0^ ^ Hf.xt q!.e';ticr! heie nr>v please. 

. .. . /f^^^**'^ ailived to cover th« lan-iinK of Iho - 

^iHoved to cover the la:^ding of the 

,,. . . . ^ ^'^ ^'^^"^^ ''^^s infomatlon quite fr&nUv. Ilier-'.n 

.landlr.g vill be televised? 
'tiL.. '-'"^ ^sre question i:l-Hf?e. 

. .^■■•^*'*'' . , '-'^'^ Kennedy Space facilities hav teen open to the 

puo-tr for « long t;r,e. Are there any pla:.. t. cpen the Haykorar 
^c.3r-..arcr:e to t.- FuBsia.n re-,Me? If so. vhen. If not. vL? 

'fff'"^^'' f.^^^^* sa-ne question you are asking. Vou're 

Sonurr ''^'^ previous one no? I thin.^ it ie the sa«e. 

^<^.^>, .v.='i^:'^'''''^:r'';r' ■ ^'^-^^ ^"'^ pres. 

'^^'V-^- ^^y.^'t^ r «ov.:.:^,; ^l V^' 1'^:^'^, 

'^^■^■^^^■■■'-^^■i-.^. a-.'.vu.:"" yc-ur r.«ark • . ..arl^ 

Ho^ihton, Tex AS 

!■■, f,-.j ri , i I'it -lit 

n<-\l Hutchinson, APTF Tf'an 2 Tlighi lUrectOT 
:.v-n V::Tr<;l], , Fiibii:- Afr?iird Otfirer 

■:v fii^r*. -■f'^* r^'j" "^^ ''^'f"^'^** '-f 53hift i-rier'in.-- 

.:hari«if [/.esia, KO:^^ * r.,;,.i, on right, and to hia right- It^ 

^« ^i-t h»f^ t,,e int^0r<*" !i * r^"'** ' c<.-'»te up. Before 

.r^t':icn vi'h ^r;^ ,-i-t.v t--k\ rr«6Mer.t':; convert 

= ^ ^..^..1 Uk. 't i..- V r-^;:'"' H^tivUi«. c.rrl.a out. 

pretty Kuoh ririii'h thp - ^, 

•■, :ur.-> I Hie, Whir 'I ' * h •• ■•■v < ' ■■ ' ' - »•.■» i. »■ j 

- 1.... v. 4u ^..y i. -h "f;,; S\ :".:V fr*;" 

.ctuKUy « bit out chl^e ".rt?r " 

"' *"«•'"• pi-grM> u the ewjniwr th»t v. .- •aep- 1 

>::»D 0? ■i;af:-: 

i • . « u . ^ r ''^^^ 

' ha ■ 

i • 

\ ? 1 ■ • 

f! - 



i V*' 

'. it , 

' . si-, ^.j . ^ ' "il V, 1 ^v,'* then 

, ... » 

- ■■-•iV.i .l*»f' ;-| *" ,,,..,.1. V,"i , 

1 ''-'If 

: . - vo>. '■" ^' ^ :v ' 

.v..,,:.^ „ . Aa-nace. , * nave - the 

''^ jH';.o,iSe they hove to tex.. T ^ ^^J^'ore the last 

i'-'fit's th.. -B^*- It home vlth thfn *u • > 

• fc-^ in tne third transfer 

finite 9^:1,3 CW, 6!iti?lj oirr 

you who iik« ff<U]iir^i».-^ . Vte k m hy Uip vay for those 


.-irst .-iff (■>'.. 


*t \ re 


K-V. --r.j.t. rj.e hi;/;* v't*: -^i^ifcter rwi'^: . 

' wet 

U 1 


1 £ 


^ J »- I 9 '/ 

Hi' y It f 

-1 ■ 

• 'OH.., 

: 1. ir.' 

- > 

^••^ ^''^^ ?ure .ver/thm; is -1.!: L l^c*' 'tf^f^' ^^^^ the seeds, 
^'^i iC^in lack to 5, an^i try 'a'li; ^"j^^^f and dump 

tenure, in the groui^d. m Hou^^o^/ tll^^nfrro ''^^^^ 

tft.t r,..yb. ther<. is .«nethins ve , 'n'^ ^Ir^'' ^^'^t comes to niod is 

-n^ ve .....n .. o^uite unaerstand about the vay 

7/17/ 75 ' 

i-ft.- - f. . - ^ '•■-'■»* I < ■■. 1 unit' h't'f't' 'I'-i^ t.i V • 

; r . ,^t:iy v',..-,. . < \'\, >' ^ ' '~ ^'•^ r.. 

JVU-O .f.- 

4 ♦ ^1^- . r trie ^a^, 

"^'ir-^i ic(v« r#tte ♦itht vi-' v 

1'. r 'hi? h'lU'K - for tKr-t 

* • ^ -• •• .--"--Vi,,:. that v<.i''i :.,»v.. )r 

■ • • ■■■1'? J J ra! J V • I ».-.»,! V't 1 1 • ■ , * • 't 

-Hay, A}..» qwf«tiunj*. )',o&stf vaJi un»- i I the 
Id you ^ 

; • '-'i- 5 1, r- c .r.*.. 

J r-v'slaent, whi oh took it wliij**, r^ij then 

ir^jf u:;<-'i roil. , f hftvc .ft feei!,n<!; 

Aim- imh) pem/2 

R-..a.ur«, you saying thM vhat vo^rrfiHinl i« fh! . 

n'/rCtaKi^ON Yen . 

..ffSL. ''^^ ^"^^^^-^ - Probl^n involve 

..4 . Have . ■;"%il;- I rl'T. ll^r^VT '^^'--^'-^, V^M^i ; b^...'-'p '^'^^ ^^^^ 

flight piaru I ;':^4''^^Ti"'"'f ^^'^^ -'^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ 

Tint;: 61*1 W OCT, :>\t W Cf/l' 

t.^:* rir..i Out vnen it is ^hou>.h.*'^; ,:;::"tr 'J''''^^^- '-'^^ tryin*, 

itnen to Ihip over there. to So ^ItV f"'""''' '"^^^ 

vh. iH doing tne F..t..^a» tour ar^a when ^ ^^^^'^^^ ^^^^''^ 

• ...";onti',t:5 l-.ucK to '.i!*? :nile'4 ;■• a ,.r» : ar^. ,l for taat h«,;;''^ cunpUtH. 

- any . I .oa't have ^,^^^^J::\j, \ : J.^r' -^noviedg. 
5ot-.=<n't ^-.ean to sav 'ha< thert' v. that . But that 

3"<-e that » tot or .hi * «"'«VM "I".', a „,,„„,, 


!^.»ttftr ur f,4Cl. »he rrc^v^ r«i ?!f , ■ "'^^''■^i«»ted fairly veil. As % 
V* ahv'Uia :,!o first mi LrTl^t^ uV^^"^ f^"''^ th»t tiiM 

-^'y - ic/t..ey o,;.an:\./;;;':^,.: "if ^^^''^^ ^--^ti.n. You 

-^^^''^\j'^^-:}n, h iuh\h:"hH;;i:^:;:;:Lr''"""''' '''' '''' 

it coul..i bridge ihc- ««.< , '.1 , ^* * aocking nodule 

• i'> which you could h.v. doJ/i. ; ';Af:r ^ '° '■^^ ^'•^^ 

I Cab M '"'^"^ "^''^ expensive, 

^-.'^•avar^ t.hat v*. buUf -or -hi: . ! ^« both are mln. 

"n-i cr.r-U ng a? iiJfe;.:^ '*«'-onpU«h what ve v^r.U^ to do. So 

in ;.ur system. , * ' , ^-^t^'^'t.. h pure oxygen atra>spher6 

j::;u ,y„. - » --^^^j- - - to 

•u/iLrtl....^'?. Well what '3 M.e t- - 

' •■■'^'-^ One atro3phi?'"» 

nmt :i>'j5 .V? COT 



vi'-'t OK the air today 

's'tffi, tilt Shuttle runs at om atacsphsye. 

An4 it I' •-ins lai^eii »Uo. 

So, th« SnuttU' runs Uk<j the aoyusi. 

rr^siaont rcrii vats kifia of windy tOvJay, vh^n h« 

'qhH you tell w; hov mwh Ulttyed the tlsssr iitie, 

'i.'ii Is it right to s&y that hti t.«.iKea «!iU thf y«j,f froi 
the AtUntJ','1 

Hm'Hlti80f< Well, I 'j.ldri't notice vhere th« vehici«6 v«re. Itie 
tiff.*' line^ ye* the ♦.isw - yes H l8 correct to a&y thai the activity 
dei«y<»-'i the tiae Ur*. IVlajed ia not the right wor4, But • 

»'5vlt (' said that he talked 13 alnutes ionfcet' 
•h%n they e.vpect«;;i hta to. Is that ~ 

H'/TCHIKSON X jrervUy 1c-r»'t Knov hov U'Rg v« expectea Ma to t%Jjt, 
H,:-v«vey i thlrut that - any tjs?e spent In that .direction certainly .vas 

veil spent. . Ve seeoea to b« abUv to - ftnia". off the fisy, an4 certainly 
i'. - »hf crevrf vyre iT.a,f.ourt'4 with - the - |;c..'««ihi lUy to our Preiiident . 

iher« - is thtre «i figure on haw such he 414 delay! 
j:.iijht t'ififit 

: 'k see !5iiy tf-st again. 

i £<il-.-i if - If - .;>H^) you tell US hoV SUijh He ^lliJ 

If he ii'i ieiay ^ne 

account f • *;h'f * 

•■'«'-ay in -^-he ti::r» line of the flight? Vhere vh$ 
Yes, %ft'i ~ - 

^'I^* <USA) PC370 
Tine: 23:39 CDT 


obviously solved. " ' "^"^^ ^^"^ night. It vas 

HUTCHINSON Ypc / „ j ^ , , 
say probably a fev minuses f thlJ I;;""/'!: "^^^^^^^ I would 

^Jcn because by the ti^ ve 1^ roinf ^ tf ^^'^^^ ^^^^ 

tf^at long. I thinX ve vere Jr^bfb y'-'a^thart • ' "''"^"'^ 

ninutes ar,d it Just seemel like as th^ f ^^^i"** ^^^^^t 

took a little longer than ^ticipated ^."'T. activity 

a-unt Of ti... vf ended ."bei H Jay4 a^d ?*^mK'"'''",°'^'''^^^^ 
portion. " --liijf-a a.. a i thlnii a weii spent 

or thS'^^Lian-B doc??ng I?' t^^'"* ''he^S' -'5 ««tronauts of th. ease 
have .-.i.sed sc«ethir«, I- Ire v. , : t f' ^^'^^"^ «>'««^«°- ^ ^e>>t 
.^r--cecraftT ^* ' ^^-^"'S on th.^ Shuttle or future 

"'-^ ,„ Probably so. 

:' '** ^ can't ansvor tha*- 

■ievelopn^^nils'the Shuttif Ldl ■ f J^fl^r^'f ^ the United States ha3 mS.r 

t. on. that vas .i.n,, in t'f if ^^^^ '^PPosed 

crt.inly is r:.3r. flexible L^i n.^:" :,^l.ZtT' ^'^^ 

t.e easier to drUv into ani i„« ' ^ ^"^ ■^'^^ S fleas 

n-'s -..ed three. I gues,. He ^ ""J i"''? ^^'^^ fact 

safi.^a....u-,pucn. " So. I think that's 

U.rrW ^"^^^ '^^^ ^''^--^^ - this«. qx«.3tlon. 

Ac.---l:'",ar)d"th^ ''"i:^ ."T '-'-^^Mt. tht Apol-o crev vi II i^i 

K^v» L^;:.vv''r:. "f^tJ^^ --^^'^^ about 9 

, v.ereri. th- A-.-. ' , ^ ^ ' „ ; ' ^^-'^^^ov and Brar.^, vn^ ent 

■ 1 eye 

' uo idea W'Vti^ - vhi 
lh<^y cer-.ttiniy wou».if,*t 

AvSTP (USA) PG37G/2 
Time: 23:39 CDT 


Of glitches . Soyu^ giuches tha/vrdon't'[Lr>,^^''''^« ^ oolle.tioa 
things ].ke caution and varning'wf "^^^''^ '^^^ 

'^"^ - ^ ^ *^^^"« "^"^^ inadvertently or things 

HOTCHINSON No. I don'^ tM v 
the cornm confl>juratlon \;da:r- ' fr^iV?- ^'^V iell you. .er^ _ 

veil as it die. With the Rufli^ ^ L!f "^^"^ ^^^^ vorked out 
U3 .n 12175 When - you knov vh^^ Syt^ 5^^' ^^'"^^^^ 
frequency, m2 vhich is about ^-iU mlLll ^alKing you kncv on this 
dor -t hear anything on the S.S ts'e. something like that, ve 

on to their «.o^d - to the^;;::„^/°:; rj^j; ^s^^:- ^^^^^^S 


ASTP (U£Aj' PC37H/1 
Time: 23:39 CDT 

HlTi'CHINSON - -the U.V,. system, if you will. When they're 
talking on 12175 to their ground - to the ground, in other words , r.ot a 
Apollo/Soyuz related corxauni cation, we get it fed back tnrough our 
receivers, through the Apollo and back dovn through the US3 and if 
WL 're on the ATS, through the ATS. Vfhen that -.appens , we usi^lly get 
it translated. Sometimes the translators seem to miss sone of the 
Moacow Soyuz conversation and and only get tlie - and I'n talking 
about our folks here - it's hard - very hard to sort out , yon know, 
every tine you hear a Russian conversation. For exaaple, if you're 
in the Control Center and had two or three loops punched up, you would 
find the Russian specialists talking back and forth, and of course, 
we dor't translate that on a word for word basis unless we're all 
talking about some mutual pvoblejti. You hear Russian being spoken on 
the Joint flight director loop back and forth, so it's v-ery hard 
sometimes to git it all sorted out and get the right ones translated, 
and I think what we're seeing is then actually missing it. You knov, 
there'll be a conversation tha^., ought to be being translated, that's 
of interest to us, that's on the air/ground, that they literally miss 
because they thought it was soaebody going tBck and forth on the - 
etcetera. Ar/J I hope that that situation probably will be better 
tomorrow, beca-oss people are Just used to where things are and what 
conversations are going on, but to wswer yc-or question directly, no, 
I don't think there's anything going on the Soyuz or be'cween the Soyuz: 
and Moscow that ve don't knov about and that has ar;y concern whatsoever 
with cur business with ther. or with what we're doing. And I think we're 
ly-yir^g^ to get all the pertinent Russian translated correctly and we 
will probably do better tomorrow, 

Q<J2,RY gut lieil, If they ccr.t'^ across to you with the fact 

'.h'tt there's soze little problem coring up <ion'X. think it's 

gcing tc icpact on the misision or w:;;.tever , they're Just telling you 
•-hat it'o about and what they're doing to vcr>. on it. There rvay not 
be any .^f that we're going to h«ar about lh5s. Right? I sean . this 
it betVeen you and then. 

miTCHlSSOJ; if it's on - yy-i kiiov, I don't know what -.if the 
.'oint' flight "director loop is of access to you folk- or not. In it? 

~, ' I fjiov . '■ ion ' t - - 

Q-tryy 'f^eli , not l;;at .s krif.v 

|j;v-'-'>-'"isO;i Veil, th'!"!! ^hfi','n v";';v<: we as flight dtr''^>nor^ 
ve-iM^'initi uViy hoir about -orn^thin^ 1 ' th'.t, find you're ri/ht , 
-/':;u stMrte': - you hear the flight •iir>»c-.;r loop, right? 

Hm':HI!iSO:i Until you started 'iraring the conversation cn 
'iight direct-::- 'OJpi >'o'^ w.>uldn't have fu-iV kncjwledge of It. TJ-iat's 
cr.rrect . UnU^p.T you heard It ther'i, or heard it iranaiftte aorae con- 
•'•'rPHtl.-'n bet wren Moscow , or bet w«en the crews being translated. 

Tine: 23:39 COT 

;^UERY Yeah . 

HUTCHINSON HcM t of course everytJiing that's said on the Joint 
flight director loop is in both Russian and English . 

QUERY Okay. And this bit about where the flight crev 

picked up a conversation r*om the LA tower - - 


i^UERY - - and turned off a switch. Okay. Could you 

give us an explanation of that? 

liUTCHINSON Sure can. And boy, I tell you, I don't know hov 
the Soviets operate on those frequencies they run on. Aircraft - 
commercial aircraft frequencies and military aircraft frequencies, a lot 
of them ran rig}it around 121.50, 121.30, 121.75, and what you're seeing on 
the air/ground is sonething we can't do a dam thing - well we have 
done something about it, by the way, which I can't believe that we 
were succefsful in. When we are operating in the joint phase with the 
121.75 inner-frequency between the vehicles, and of course it's hot, 
with a TA? receiver onboard the spacecraft, we actually are hearing 
and reading aircraft coamuni cations all ov<'r the world. We've heard 
them today in Lcndon, h'dscrd , hoh Angeles, a couple of other places. 
We hear control tower airplar^e traffic, as a oatter of fact, one tine 
coniing up over LA so3>';"body got cleared for a landing on runway 22 and 
it sounded Just like the controller w6s taJking to the Apollo, you 
know, you couldn't tell the difference. And the reason is because 
thev're operating on the very - not on the sar.e, but close enough to 
this Joint frequency we're using, which by the way is the frequency - 
these^two n\ frequencies 121 and 13^ that the Soviets use, they use 
then all the tine, so they nust - when they are in a position where 
they ai-e - have their transmit - - 

Tine: 23 ■■ 39 COT 

7/17/7^ ^ The-/ use then 

,,,,,.,.,0H - -21 and 13^ that '^\l^l'%l^tTol\Zre' U.ey are - 
rU^1o they ».st^ vhen^they a.e^ a^pos. ^ .round staUon^^ 
■nave their transnitters and f^^fj^ .oB^ercial airplane traffic^they 

and minimize 11., .w^vltles in terraS of tr/mg 

states and „r VKF airplane voA. ^ „y 

aan Jthat fcf i ""uc"': rro. you people or Cro. tne 

■""^StSiNSOM nrst off tuns mi8t"- 

.,ns. to nlr and cause _ 

rramV„;r.ri; .liriiny^jais: don. ..^^ 

on ici^i^ g aide, 

on the ground on tne u.o. = 

sSixco. - --str^^^; n'r 

irequency ^ frequency. They nay ^^3. of 

airports is on , > sure. But m b"^ ^ _ 

and receiving on ^othe.. ^ i . i really doubt it. 

ihe- conversations would te in ^ 
' oSble, I vould B'^. -J-^it i;,, OKay, thanX you. 


Hoxiston, Texas 

ASTP Clifvnge-of-3hift Briefing #9 
Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center 
Houston, T'-'xas 
^:*»5 a.ri. CDT 
July 16, 1975 


i>onaid R. Puddy, ASTP Tean 3 Flight Direct 

Robert L. Crippen, CAPCOf'? 

Charles Redaond, Public Affairs Officer 

Time: Ol»:37 COT 
Date: 7/18/75 

PAO Good morning, we're here for a change-of-shift brief- 

ing vith off going flight director Don Putty, and with him CA? CO!<M, 
Bob Crippen. You want - 

PUDDY Okay, let ne, - Just say a couple of things, - of 

r.ore or less a general nature and talk about - follow up on sojr.e of the 
problems ihat we've already briefed you on, sua ve won't go through and 
detail toda.Y'3 activities I think they're fairly straitforward. But, 
if you have any questions, we'll be more thari happy to answer them for 
you. As far as general information is concerned, - the crew as you're probably 
aware got to bed a little lat* last night. Actually it is somewhere 
between an hour and a half and two hours late. Around 6:20 p.n. wake- 
up accured as scheduled this corning, at 66 hours, ^0 minutes, GET, 
or about 2:00 a.ra. Tne activities that we have scheduled are as flight plan 
with the o.ily exception being that it - ftf you're aware we have had a pro- 
blem with the heliun injection systes., on the nultipurpose furnace, 
and as a result, it's taking a little bit longer, and it depends on the 
sajnpie, sorsewhere between 2 and 5 hours longer for the sanple to cool 
down and be able to - to renove it from the furnace. As such, the sanple 
that vas scheduled to be removed this mornir.g will not be, until the 
period of time where we actually are placir.g the Joint sample in the 
rarnace, and the ss-Tnple we are placing in the ,1oint furnace, during - 
I believe it's the - first cr second transfer, actually will not be re- 
moved until the fourth transfer, and in the flight plan you'll see that 
it was nominally scheduled to be removed during the third transfer. As 
far as - Just some general infortaation on the spacecraft, itself. Our 
orbit presently is 121^ by 123.2. The command nodule cabin tenperature 
is running right around 66 degrees, which - very comfortable. DocKlng 
aoaule running somewhere in the order of 68, and 69, which is a little 
bit vonner than it was yesterday, and I thirJ^ provided better sleeping 
conditions for Oeke. rros the standpoint of - consursables , on all 
of the consunables . ve are either on the expected conaumables profile, 
or we're a litvie bit ahead. So, ve anticipate no problem whatsoever 
._^.!^^ ?:,i35i;--n duration, ""r.a squenJ that yo*jr aonetines hearing on 
'v^'comaunications Fysten, •-•e feel is caused by sorr.e of the speaker 
boxes, and ve are tr:^ing to take sor.e action there to get those speaker 
boxes turned off when they are -,ot being used. And in the docking aodule, 
•nrr.ed down \ 'j a lev enough volurji where we can hear any alerts, but a^. 
the 3«iae tine not provide the feedback. And hopefully that will clear 
up sor.e of the ccrrr- t-day. 71-;e - Russian:^ gave us th.eir status report,^ 
■^uia a few ninutcf? aRo. Tnf?y have no nev problens to report. And they re 
all r.'a'lv t-' go, for'the trai^.sfers today. Yesterday, we spoke to you a 
little bit about a problen that we had on s ICDU - failure indication. 
W*? have continued to review thftt particular problem - - 



ASH' {USA) PC38B/1 
Time: 04:37 CUT 

Pl^DDY - -spo'ice to you a little bit about a problem that 

we had on en IGDU failure indicai ton. We are continuirig to review 
that particular problem. We are cohvi need that the failure does lie 
in the failure detection circuit itself ar.d not ia the equipment and we 
have masked a bit in the computer to prevent the crew froa getting those 
alaras. Hcvever, since we have done that I think - Bob correct me it 
I'm wrong, but I'm aware of only one other time where that alarm has 
occurred since ve had that initial series. We had quite a series yesterday 
but since that tine there's been very few. 

CRIPPIN That's independent of the - the laaeking did not 

prevent thea. 

^^^■^'i Yea}., the raasking did not prevent that, I'm Just 

saying even - even if ve had put the .casking in there, we woul.d have 
been subject to that problem only one additional time since I talked 
with you yesterday about the problem. At that tlxe ve were having quite 
a few In very rapid order. The one other problen ve had that you ciay 
have heard some reports on vas some question as far as the integrity of 
tunnel 2. Basically what - I think this has been covered so I 'n gonna 
highlight it. Basically what that is, ve feel is due to the expansion 
of the gasses as they heat up after that particolar tunnel has been 
depreasurized and as h result of that, you really can't distinguish 
between the expansion of the gas due to the heat up and an actual leak 
from one of the spacecraft. We've talked vith the Russian flight con- 
trollers cn that particular situation. L think they are in complete 
agreexent vith us on that arid we've relaxed the criteria today such that 
I don't think there will be any .':jue3tion whatsoever as far as considering 
anything but a level vhich wo'xLd definitelly Indicate a leak through one 
of the hatches. Before the final cioseout ve will go ahead vith the 
:3tandardized leak check. And then folloving that ve'll ailov some 30 
r,inutes for the temperature tc stabilize and then use the Sfune criteria 
as far as leak level that v-^ did yea tenia;. . And ve feel like - and ve 
have sor.v curves that vers generated up duriag the night tine frar.o 
- that at ^ the end of the 30 ninuterj, ve feel like therrtally ve should 
t;o stabiiiiei ar.d if there ;.!* any leak we'll be able to *letect it. Fron 
the time thai the crew went to sleep la.Tt night untU this norning the 
pressure in that tunnel had not changed at ell. So ve foci voiy confident 
that St vas c.rictiy a thf>3-ffial prcbien and not anything nfy;?r)oiate i vith 
leakag>> in the t'onnel. I think th^t pretty veil c?vers M . Open it 
up f-->r questions , 

J^AO Okny. iiruce Hicks 

^'^^"If t'-Ju and Crip - I guer.:* either one - back to the odor 

and gAi^ problem. Vith tho i'lt open Insst ni^^ht, there's no v»y to really 
know whether or net the odor cmc from that furnftc* lining s'lnce 
you had the mixture cf the two craft, right? Had nixture'of the oxygen 
fron botn the coMiand nodule a:;d the HM. then ~ hecHxxna yesterday it'd 
ccrn clo;;e.i up fnr th^r^e h^-wtA 'I'.d whs;; tiu-y oyer.ivi the hatch vhen 
they »Bs«.l led U. So there's no way to resHy kncv what - what that out- 
.casping ''-n:-, i'ri>z,, ic! th?tt correct? 

/vSTP (USA) PC38B/2 
Time: 0^:37 CDT 

FJDDY That's correct. I don't believe ve can pin- 

point where the outgaseing is coming from. There ^^J^ J^^f ^ ^ 
ar^es that ve looked at that ve think might be possibilities. One of 
then irfesocia^ed vith Boae of the - the lining - the adhesive ^ 
iinirg vtthin the furnace itself. Another one is one ^ of he^eolvents 
tiat vas used to actually clean the docking module prior to launch. 
In elVrer case, the situation can't do anything but inp rove vith 
JLe because ti;e - as the air is circulated the llthiv_. hydroxide 
cannisters of course will absorb that particular- - 


ASrP (USA) PC38C/1 
1 irr.e : OU : 37 CDT 



course vill absorb that ^arti^!?!^ ^^^5'"°* hydroxide canisters of 
problo.s out Of that T^ere-slShlnrtr- 

So again if 3 sonothing that vas ^elo^t^H ^''^^"^ °' '^^^ 
very minor problem. reported but ve consider It to be a 


Now had there been J^c^^^r^ tL^'i^' specialization proble.. 
outside or one unit to the othe^ frJf 'nn 5 7 ^^^^ ^^'^^^d «-o 

CRIPPEi^ He d?5n-T^ '^^^Pie^^el.v folioved your question, 

outside the spaeecran.'^^a; TlTiT' 'JT '''^ " " ^« 
module a>.d the Soyu... ve pu^ a haSh "-J^ '^"'^ ^O'^^lng 
tvo hatches and ve enciosfth s s'Sl s^r^f ^'/^'^ ^-^-'"^ 
space dovn to a lever v.rc^<,uZ\t ^ ^' ^^-'acuate that 

se« .f the pressure [n^He t;: tt^.''^''''' to 
that there was some kinHf iL^'' "^^^^^ i"<iicate 

on properly, ^t.en tha vo^ld Tave ,::' t: '^M'^' '"'^^ "^'"^"'^ 
do in that case is we'd ocer th • : I And what ve normally 

t.e.. And ve vent tJr^u^J^hS ^^l-S 2^L!?lf^!:'^ --^t ^ 

them. And ve vent through ^V:; ^^r^ Ct, ^^'^'-^'^ them ar<d reseat 
that vas the vay ve had tt ^"taC'-"^ '"f "'e:' ^'^itially because 
problen. That lat^r ^-^^^zJZTu . V "'^'^ the 

?^pL S;:.'!;t^^'r?:?' ^^-^ - there? 

Q^^H^: That ^a 'p L d'^ '''''''''' 

planned that vo^!Jd's!eerirty '^^^^^^ ^t vas 

^'^^ Chris. ' 

Vhat are the surKecr..'Ta.fL/«bouJ^^at '"''^^k^' f """^"^ lomotil. 
told oi5d 1 heardV-.'. f; ' ^^^^^ ^^at the erev vai 

ioir:^ to oontinuo to t ake'lon-^^ 17..''^^ "^P*" ^"'^ then are 

'^-lOr ohrt d"n-^'hS f '''' *n<i pull a Bill Anders' 

•^o interruptions to that .1^' "''""^ interested in having 

yvu say |.-r,u problem? " " ^'^ ' --^^'^^^ed about thin - did 

or i.'';^'; .o..thlngriw; tSet.'^; ^^•^ -^-^-^'^-^ '^lann 
vhat this, probiera is! ' ''''^^^^ '-^t sure 

in the'i^Lnce and LiK^'-f .^.^if f tf^ '""^ components 

f'tl^^r. vhc:r.ov.r;o^;::!/!:^!^""^ indicating to u. 'hat It had 
you're interested In noUn« i"^ "vC^C..*' ^! '^i^iung, the tvo things that 
or th«. !;ardvar« or a mi ■ f m ,r • • T "'1 ' «^tually a failure 

■ ■■'"'^ t'^i^uro detection circuit itaelf. 

Time: Ok -.37 CUT 

Vy had - night before Ja^ ve had r, 

^rev up a few hours early ^^"'/'^^^f^^^^ ^arms. ActuaUv woke tv 

of the equipner : in/ associated vi th^L 1. ^ ^^^^^^ 

confident tS^'that^s^vh: ^t'^^'T' "^^^ t\e da^r^M J^f^'^" 
every time you have one ol thes: St ""^^^^^"^ "u.s^'ce Larl''^ 

PAO ! ' nothing n4 on " v"' 

CoTL^unicatioDs circuit do th^y - tvn 
OF TAPE " "^^'^ - - 

Time: 014:37 CDT 


QUERY Vho\^ ^"°" ^" back, Martha 

docking. Do thev have ^7^?^'""''°"" <=revs U3e after 

corr^unicate vhen' the;- re aiartr" °" they "^"^ 

pUjjj-iv J '■^ apart, : ^ 

CRIPPEif Sere ^ave an Intercom 

the first transfer, ^ '^'^'^^ ^^^te. that is L.^SL^ on 

-e\J:t\T:^i; tTth":^'- ,^ --^n is that 
the Apolio crev is in the Soyuz it vl t^^^° "^^^^ ^"hen none 

box. And the problem vith usin^ tL t^^l^^ the speaker 

3queai thing that you've been hfa^Jn/^'f '^^^^ ^^-t you -"^L this 
that one. Ve ni<»t »v I "earing. So nonaallv vf> hX^i* 4. 

PAO ^''^^'^ use the RF 11^ ^' ^ ^ to use 

^0 ru>.ther questions? Thank you. 


Houston, Texas 

Houstor., Texas ^ 
9:30 P.O. cm 


'iivl Hutchinson, ASTP Teew P ri ■ w» . 

ASIT iUGA) reltOA/l 

Time: 21;iV CriT, 8S: Y GKV 

ilAriANEni - - chf.nge of shif- briering and oui- biiefer tonight 
is Nt'ii Hutchinaon, flight director. 

tU*.' nilNP^N Okay. L --t ae get organize'! here. Everybody v^o^^^ly 
want \nov ^.ay the crev's avaXe, riRin; off. I'm not sure thai they 
are, hut I'll get to that in iust & ninut- . Let ae J«3t kind c;' rur. 
i-jVTt - it's r.o big Jeal by ' .".e v'ly, so - but ve'll talk 'tVout it in a 
Tiiniite. I guess you probably vatohed the activities todfty 5Jid spw thi-t 
ve finished up the second day of cur Joint - Joint activities fairly 
3.?.oolhly. And actually I think that today particularly the third and 
fourth - the press conference and the third and fourth transfers vent abou 
as veil as ru-iybcdy possibly could of hoped. We actually oaae out on the 
fourth trarisfer today vlthin minutes of the pre-planned, pre-aissicn 
tine line in tei-n:s of the crev getting things done and vhen they backed 
out. We did get then to bed on time and by to bed i mean the last ccs- 
wonlcaticn at the ocntroi center had vith theia vas right exactly when 
ve plaixned. Ti-ny vers up - and I've, noticed this every night by the vay, 
they asuallv dtay up about an hour, hour and s hall' after ve last talk 
15 ther,. Just, I suppose, getting vound dovn and squared 
away for sleep. Ve did have a coupvle of little things this afternoon 
as ve were finii;hir^ up that kind of lead up to the - the situation 
that ve're in - that ve r.ay be in right nov that caused us to vaXe 
thea up. And let ~jo Just kind of tell you about then. First 
thing that vas connected vith it vas this afternoon yhen ve br-DUght 
thS; docking m-odiile back dovn tc 5 PSI. We had some eratic performance 
out of the partial pressure oxj/gen sensors in the docking Eiod>ale. Tnose 
things are connected to the C&W in the docking module and they rinj.: th'' 
bell in the docking module, not the conanand nodule . They ring the 
buizer up in the docking module. Of .-"ourse, Deke sleeps up there s-^ v-- 
had sor:e concern this afternoon that mat vould vake up. Ke pul;e: 
the ho ptillcd circuit breakers o< c'-^ea vhen it vas ringi-j, beeau.-*'? 
of course, he can look at the r.e' nnd see that tne partial pressv.--; 
transducer- vere acting up. va' ■.'hed them for -^tucx*. an h ^...r and L-' iiel 
that r-.aybe it r.i-it cf had dora'.-thing to do vith ti-.e - vhen v" ^rough*. 
'.!!e -tr^cKing aoA'ile pressure bs. ^ d ,'vn every"-rtij-.g ^eer-' i tc te .'-ar-iii/. 

ve punched the breaker.? back ir. vent - c -Jioep v-i*:-, fA.": r r';"" 
sens.vr^ in the docking ns-.'r.'io n:-ti. Abcu' 'hlj l=^.--- 'J.v:- we •, -. i 

h ■■t^r.iard thing in the f. .qnv plor. l tt ve \o t'V.'ry night ■^-.ere vf,- 
vurge the corar.and r!..iuic -^r-b-.-- vith oy^en b,,- hcci\:r^ up n ;tt]e - ; *. ' ? 
^*'jSt A QF; fittir.g vi'h fi sc.- rf •:; '. , r. the waL'te rin^ii?.---*-: -. 
vent panel, -iuid tlisn openirg * it- >'«\;-'.o nfirmgeser.t vent, ov--:-' '.r-A vor.t , 
■■•nd that flovs 'd?. overbcT- i : tht* -o-.-.-a:. t r.;--iulc. ■•.i. vt- -.. --i 
ilkpd to the rrev about :"'ict tr -i* vc* .iidn't "hink v*- vorc- gett . 

fi -iV rate that was cc.menL- ■:t\'=- v. • *,he kind o; flcv vi? r.ugJ * to h&ve, 
*;*■'•■ r ve've .T-een other "^venitpV vVc^n • -iv zioir-* rjan«.ger»;-.t vent vj».-: .>pt.":!«ei 
;''.d ve did confira vith then t V. "t vt-'' open-id. Sr ve vaited a vhiie - 

fact vaiteri hour ■..rid a ha.*"- And, "-'ill not jr-tting n-'tv f» w, ve 
i'.-c-deJ that ve shovild do vhat vt: ^all tsun -ic piirge, t-st use the qo-.'/.- 
ing r-.odule OZ, vhich vas /'^ally ' ^-aic^-x^t. v*,v ve culd thirk of tM buisp 
the Oi: up in the cabin - ' .e partial', pres '!'•■ '^f oxyge.o \r\ the cabin tefor 


Tine: 21:17 vJDT, 85:57 GET 


we went to bed. The reason that ve do the 02 snrichaent is to get the 
:-k)c i;p every night after we're thro\Jgh vith these Joint operations in 
the cowiiand module and docking aodule. And, of course, since ve didn't 
get the enrichment with the command aodule flow ve decided to do it with 
the docking nodale. And we have a standard thing in the docking nodule 
checklist that raises the partial preasui-e of oxygen. However, it takes 
it up to 2h0 nlllineters, which is about h PSI , wh.\ch is way more than 

rea-lly needed. So we told the crew to take it up to a 170 I believe, 
which is' like about 3.2 ^1, soaething arcuDd there. 



t-bing around there. Ard ""^^ ''^^''^ 1^*^ abo.a 3 o por 

;^ kittle va... .r.,:^J:i tc '.TZ T'' ^"^^^'^ to ; 

o run the seeonaary coolant Io:p':n /vVto'u'?/'''^^' - the/i:^t:r 
bicl;,. ^^'^ ^^^1 ^^'•-^^ to Shut it n?. *° 30 ahead and do 

clearM ur ' talk *he- an/^I . activity or so 

th'r^l ^oo^^iEht. Vn.l^Tsy 'JZ-'^f everything 

^^'^ -- '^-ng out the sparpcrfi#Y - goodnight and ^usi vatch 

inrrP^""""^ -'^'^^ eood au^^'^^-, 'f^ '""^ tonight, in 1^' of 
^nd behold vhen ve .av - finall^^^v r^''"^'^"-^"^^^ tir^e and 

' r^r^^'^^^^^ ^^^^^^ JS^tH^^ 

It u,^.<ing .:.,,a-.:ie U2 enrifhrf--i.'r «... ^ they vere doinc 

.irred - . . . rTr^''^'^' valve -l.ov fiov J^vt" ^ '.ti '"^"^ apparently 

A. ; /"^^^-'^ti., through ther. L ^«^-'t been 

a/;^:,A::-; \--i^ed out or th,,,. . -nd this 

it v-V k;.-; they sot a high op fi' L the rooR. 

vent -i-.ive; ■;v.^: ;v -^^^ t. a^JJe ^'^-^^.^^^y 

::V ■ ■ Any -v:!^-^"'^-^^^ 1 r,. 

' thi^ ...... 

^■^-^^'t.r; .0,-- ^rriitti^t?r:j::^^^^^ ^" 

•Ifferen.. It's kind of hard when ycu 


Time: 21:22 COT, 86:02 GET 


don't - evei-y thing's fairly concentrated. I thinh it's Kind of obvious . 
The flight directors and the flight teaiaa are kind of compartmentalized. 
We each one have - for exaaple, lay big deal in this whole thing is getting 
them to bed every night. I don't kiwv a lot about rendeavous and WA's and 
etcetera, etcetera, because I don't ever have to do any of those activities 
irt the mission. So the flight teans , the ground teams are kind of specialized. 
We each practiced the particular parts in the mission as opposed to SXylab 
vhere everybody got a crack at everything sooner or later. And of course 
the duration rr-akes it - you Xnov you can see the light at the end of the 
tunnel before you even climb in - so the duration nakes it - gives you a 


(USA) pcl.oC/1 

t-ne tunnel before vou I '''"^^ can see th^ i* 

the other thing is v2\ ^"^f^ ''^tioo'^ on the^h!? ^^^^ " gives 

S^cylab. Gosh Je-Je Lr''^ ' ^/vhere neS fh/"^^"^' course 

HirrCHISSOH fJ'" Shuttle? ^""^ ^^^^^ viU 

«lot about that part or ;>. ^ ^^'^^^'^^ I don't w 

concept of d,C ^h'^ttle but I l.n^ """^ * ^^oi^ heck of 

^T-^an a universal in%l\^^' ''"'^ of unive^.L 1° ""iversal de- 

^i^-e mi hav. I^^". ^^'^ .^^'^^^ that both sid^;^ T"^^ ^^rU, I 

particular conr^c? %f?*'"°'''^'- there's a Iw/^ °PP°^«<3 to th/ ^ 

f-^^^^ ■ vc.^^;^t'be ^.'r transferab^^'^?;^^ ^hat 

a heck .^r , j;™^"^^ the crev, h^ve h«d ir,^?! . Soviets one 

-ve had i^^ierl: ^c^ta^^S: '"'"^ 

QLJERY ™^ Apcllo. ''''^''^ the previous ones 

'f^^ ' -^ere is no ^^^expl'^n^l\ll!^\''P o»»'n mind on thie 

they, you in-, , °, "■«-"»««oMt vent valva r." ^' "ot 

fit th. e r., " K'^-J turn o„t S H a^a 

g,_-> ai; for the„ to aW frr" ""^-^^ 

.■ i„ noi'^^f ; rags t"o J?™ -" " 

- the.:, .nrH°'4"°^i:,'r'i^- ' ^'^'t 

t^tiore I cacc on vas 

ASTP (USA) Pcl,00/s 

■•^ery veli done arid work«^ . 

fjrence started aJd [hat c\e^'s"beL!/">' 

^Wnk about it became b J. ^ ^«<^r«<iible coimunicat^^n ! '1'* P^^^''' 

E.ND OF TAPS- it; s been asked - _ 

ASTP (?(SA> PCl*OD/l 

Ticje: 21:32 CDT, 86:12 GET 


r^SRY Forgive me for repeating this question, Vut it's been 

asked once tonight, and it's beea asked at every other briefing, and with 
not a whole lot of response on the part of you guys. And that»3 the aatter 
of vhat's it like vorking v-ith the Soviet counterpart and being part of this 
ir.Sernational mission. The reason I ask It again is that I can't imagine it' 
the saiae as doing Apolio I83, to ha/e a translator at your elbov, and a bunch 
of guys in Moscow at the end of a long coaaa loop and everything being done 
in stere and so on, Siirely you have sone thoughts that you could free 
associate out about that. 

KinCHINSOJJ Yes. I don't know what the other guys have said 
about this, hfy experie.'ice with that interface in the mssion has been 
a pleasant one, in the fact that I was a little bit concerned before 
the Eission about the kind of reaction titse ve were going to be able to 
evoke. Not only because their way of doing things is a little bit 
r.ajbe nore conservative than ours. In other words, they're fairly 
cautious about doing sanet;ilng different than they already planned 
en icing, but the cosr;uni cations ai-e slow, no matter what anybody sa^vs . 
li't hsri, I r.ear. , you know you Just - it's not like you and I sitting 
here having a conversation back and forth. I think contrary to anj-thing 
I rdght have been concerned about before the nission, I got* into a pretty 
good ditty the other night, last night I guess it was with the hatch 
integrity check thing, which it wasn't a serious problem, but it was 
a ditty between ourselves, both crews, and both control centers, and - 
which involved me getting on the loop and talking to c^/ counter part 
who happened to be Kravets, the flight director in Moscow, and it - the 
answers were all forthcoming at a timely fashion and very professionally 
done. - I thought that it couldn't have been done imch snoot her. 
I think the one thing, as I sit back and look on it now that makes me 
kina of wonder, I wish there was another one of these flights. We've 
gone to all this trouble to learn how to work with those people. It's 
like going to the Moon once and never going back. You know, 90 percent 
of the battle is over with, you know, getting all the first firsts done. 
And I feel like I could ran another Apollo/Soyua or another Joint anything 
with a heck of a lot less fuss than it took to get this one going. But 
you're right. It is a little different operation. I think that it's 
vcrked out as well as any of us could expect, have possibly expected 
before hanc, and i* 's gone. Of course, we haven't had a really big ditty, 
iou night say that naybe it's untested a little bit if we really got 
i:;tr a tra^xta and had to mke soae real big decisions like having to 
'jnirjck in a hurry or soaething, between two control centers, how that 
vc'oii £c, but, I think we're prepared to handle that. And I think it 
would go well if we had to do it . 

<^Ry The crews of course know each other very well. How 

well do the controllers here and Moscow know each pther? And could you 
g;ve us soace Idea how an txoharige would go between you and hksscow controllers. 
You know, Just step by step talk us through it if you had a question a.nd 
wanted an ariswer. 

hirrCHItiSON Well, to answer your first question first. There 

^''^ (USA) PckOD/2 
rime: 21. -sp rrr^ \^ 
7/18/75 • ^^'-^^ GET 

^>as been a fairu. 

between the cont^?,"*'^ '^'^^^ade shit, 

>eIeDhone Vf " ^ ^'■^d of 11 v« T to thea on » \. ^ because 

;. times. v^..t^ -^^^^e socebody °" * »"egular Va^.- , 

ASTP (USA) K/kom 

Hl/rCHINSON _ _ tn +V. . 

I kriov th<.m, you knov, a little bif V " "^''^ but I th^-nk 

tleton, and Jay Ho^eycutt Ld Ln i"" <il rectors -1?ank 

had - fair fare amount of in.'erclnS" ^ffPff' ^heza. Ld haS^ 

one person starts and says vh!? he hL . "^^^ ^ by tSt 

n ""-^^^ ^'^^"^ a iittl. ^^y^ it's your turn," ^r-' 

aiuught or part of « tho,ix,h+ " er^unf . you don't lust - nrr^-^ 

if o I-*., the other fellr-7f«^> , . °^ ^hat you vanted 

U a nttle .lov. But. other tha.! " -^"^^^^^ ProbaMy «.aXes 

Query v,-^ ^"a. law, U goes fairly veil 

^ow did you go about l^nH/!'? ^^tch t^i:;g\'-3t nigh^ 

counterpart over there. Ind I ^ " -''^^^ ''"^ your L;Ka.n 

direct interface at that ^nd Jlt^ ! '"^^^ « degre^on a 

^'^^'^ been and Apolir "jf ^^.^ ProbIe« cf^^L^'t: 

HWCHlN-SOr Well - r^^es^ iT t^f ."^'^'"^ ' ^'^^^ ^ Problem 
the natter is and in any instS^L iiL t . f'"'" 
goang on that vas abnormal tS^; .on'r'i "'^^""^ something 
crev ana giving then: instructions talking to thei^^ 

^orth to each other vhich has a '^ndenov r f"^'' ''^^^"^ back Ld 
e--tt..g out of step. But the L^rZn/.l^ "^^v^^ "'"^^^ ^^^^^-'^^ f^ron 
t<-i^.ng back and forth is fo;- 'Cf^on.^ ? ^^'^■"^^ ^^'"trol centers 
the respective crevs not to gef o,t ' ^'^^^-'^<^tions to 

out of pnase. v, ear. tell Apoll^ ^ f!" ^^omse it's easy to g-^t 

- or Moseov, can tell f Je W ^"^^ tunnel, and Scy*u^ caJ 

unnel for another ten minutes.^ 'i;^ alf ;f'a'r?.' ^-P the 

a pressure check ar,d aIm . . Z"*^^*'''' ^^^^^^ is 
■'ov naybe the Apollo crev vould hli^ f f bringing the tannel dovn 
ia-ic th*> Minnoi " J *ft3uia nave satd to Savi" ^'u^,. . , -^^"'»- 

th^"' Jl? ' S^y^z vould have said "SI ' f^* ''^ '"^ «^^"e to 

" ^^■^M ve're having an intes-atl v^ .h!!^ . ^ ' re not suppose to 
U3, and we'd get it sorted our yl, knS '"k ^1''' ^^^^ baS to 

h-ppen that's kind of a doubl'e check ^ o Probably vhat would 
^3 that you have to aake sure that '"f ^^^^^ren.e obviously 

or comments cord nc un r>.n« . gi"ound instructions or ^7 

MbM vas t„ „ax^ »«■ " on t-J ,!, "^'"^ ^ established l^t 

ospoct after coming in tod^/, snd h^ar^n" « ^ understand 

^ ' n^Ar^ng soir.e of the people 

ASTP (leA) PCi*0E/2 

Time: 21:37 CDT. 86:17 GET 

I^^L^"'L^::^ra\^\^x:^rr.e1f a ^ight hatch 

the first tine. And it vas prcbfbly f^d t^^' ""^'^ ^^'<^^ 

the tunnel bacK up ar:d redid botrhatoLs Hovelr P^P^^ 
out on the table, that ve both thought th^^ However, getting it 
effect here that was probably n^S th^ l ? 1^*^ 
vasn't. a JeaX, and cer^ainl^ T/,l^ f And it really 

control center. Anru tSns S^rr^ .'^"' tvo 

up ve vere both on the sa^rvLelL^?. ,'' «^ brought the subject 

about the 3a.e thing. LT/so! i fMr^XlUf ' ''.^^^"^ ^^^'^ 

the interchange, and cour-*. . '^^ important part of 

Place if you hadn't hi; >^ave had'to t:.'e 

all right there in the s aire roon L''tT^l because we're 

on the s«^,e wavelength, to sp;ak ""^^ 

^ov n^rir a par. ."^ftj^ .t^::y ^^-t answer, but, 

vas ieveloping a conr.on technical vn^«>.,o •'fission as it turned out 

R-^ssiar.. Vo;da - iid voJ ^^^SivV-°^t ^^^^P^^^ fron Just learning 
had no part to got wit^Jhall L o? stu?? ''''^ '^^^ 

..UKn^.,„..;i iechnicai. - that's hard - - 

h;nd of taff, 

ASTP (USA) ?cUoy/i 

Ti me : 21:U2 Cl'T , 86 : 22 GST 

lilTCHINPON TJiftt 's hard for rae to ansver because as far as - 
1 uas not a of nny of the working groupa as the presiisslon 

preparations vero aade, I vould say as to opposed to the techni- 
cal, I Jould say, at least in i^y looking at it that there may of been 
an operationad langijage getting used to. We use little different tenas 
for certain things, and I 'k trying to think of some exanples and nov 
that you've r-'-it me on the spot I can't think of any. But I vould aay 
probably not. 1 thxMk in certain cases things that ve Just - vhen they 
define a valve in thsjir spit; era!'! or sonething like that, ve have to 
be i^areful thdt we understand that it's a valve or understand - but 
nost of it's pretty - fairly con-TOn - then of course, in the doeking 
r-iodule there's gear tnat ve bith have to operate and we arrived over 
the p.»rloi of twj ye°rs or three years of negotiations into a fairly 
corisistent of englnee.- i: ,: ar<d operatio!i«l language that Was useJ in 
there. Arj'i I noticed tht-a, - T lon't knov whether they were doing it 
before ve cx-ne cn 'he scene or whethc-r they've f>icked it up, but the 
kind of lingo ve us-.- in ccrjr.o/iicating back and forth and abbreviated - 
Houston this is Moscov and that kind of talk, operational kind of talk, 
they sees'jd to ~-f picked lip it and sound Just like vte do. Mac/be they 
sounded Juist like ve before ve were evera-ound. 

i^TSRY I Just vouiered if j'ou'd seen any indications - you 

talkeri atotit , a little bit about the si.'nilaxity in the operational lan- 
guage - whether you've £ -^ten the inpressioh that perhaps there are 
certain ways which the Soviets have patterned their procedures on ours 
bec'tuse, you knov o^'ors have been very, so visible and successful. 

M'TCHIHSOJi That vould be hard to ansver arid I don't think - 
that vi:!uld be hard to pal v our finger on. I think that s one of our 
operational flexibility is rubblrig off on thert, I think that's very 
envious. By that I rsean the ability to - Just like - I was conmenting 
before - to do tnlngas iifferent than you planned on doing then when 
you 5* --ted and I think that's great. That can't do anything but, in 
r&' opii,.:jn, help then do a better Job of things because 1 really t hink 
-or.etiMs It appe'- -3 that they have a tendency to do exaOtly what they 
set out to do and stick 'very very close to' that and if doesn't go quite 
that vay, - r.ey don't chajige quickly. B^A I've - we've seen considerable 

■•v:-unt of flexibility a? the flight, has gone on here in their way of 
a.:ing things. Their fixing that television ca-nera business, Just wiring 
ai-ound Junction box is? a typical exar.pit. That's a typScal thing 
■A'- vould havo dor.e in that situati -a and they did the snr.e iarn thing. 

PAO Tnr.nk you Keil. 

Ulu or TAPS 

Houston, Texas 

A^r Change-of-Shift Briefing #12 
tn^on B. Johnson Space 
Kouslcn, Texas 
5:30 a.r.. CDT 
July 19. 19 T 5 

o AA- ASTP Tear 3 Flight Director 
Donald B. Puddy, Abir i*- 
Bill Moon* EECCM 

J. j' Convell, Experiments ^^^^^^^ 
Charles Rediaond, Public mi'^ 

Tine: 05:35 COT, GBT 
Date: 7/19/75 

PAQ Giod morning, we've got several people up here for 

this n^r.rning'd change-of-shlft briefing. Imeiiaily to my right Bill 
Moon» 'SECm for Don Puddy, Don Pud dy offgoing flight director for 
tern three; J. J. Convell» science officer for team 3- And I guess we'll 
Start with Don jmd a brief susrsary of last night's veiy ffllninal 

PUDDY Well 1 don't Xnov vhRt I can say, after an introduction 

like that. The crev rest period last night was pretty much started as 
scheduled at least as far as the ground control tean was concerned. However 
after listening to the morning re-p-crl and some of the activities whi ch 
I'll cover a little bit later, ve actually think the crev went to bed 
at leaat Hit hour and - and the case of at least one or the crevnen rAvbe 
two hours late. We had around 85:5*0 GET around 9:00 p.c. last night, 
an 02 flow high master alarm and we'll cover this in a little nore 
detail later. The crew waXe'op occurred as sched'xLed 91:55 CET or about 
3:15 a.r;. this inoming to the tur. ;f "Tenderness." The only problen 
was that the speaker in the docking noiuie - evidentaly was off so ail 
of our efforts' at finding a nice t-one to wake then up this ncrning 
really were kind of to no avail. Shortly after vaXeup this iBornlng 
as far as activities are concerned, the crew begins their preparations 
for the first undocking which is of course with the conmand aodule 
being active. Undocking, because of a change in the orbit and small 
change in the s'Jinrise time has been delayed by \ »*,nute and 15 seconds. 
The reason that's critical of course is to make sure that we get in 
the proper attitude at the proper tiae for the Joint solar eclipse, 
the experiment. It's now scheduled for 95:^3:25 and I think in the 
Flight Plan you'll find it was 95 42:05. Following undocking the 
command module will station keep from the Soyu: at a distance of dbout 
l6U feet. In order to create an occulting disk for - in order to 
allow the Soyua to photograph the solar corona. The second docking 
^hich will be done with Soyuz active will occur somewhere in the 

.>yu2 . 


probably''aware that'what we'r-e talking about there is a 150 neter 
and a 500 aeter out of plaiie data take followed by a iOOO meter 
in plane data take. That pretty ssuch wraps up the Joint activities 
and the Apollo end Scyuz crews then will start on their own autonooouj 
activities. Some of the autonomous ftctivitiea that will gc on today 
include sone additional IT/A nieasureaents to - to gather soae background 
data and also wt' re going to acconplish an EUV raster to enable 
us to deterolne whether or not that particular instrur.ent is aliened 
properly for the EUV data takes, and that's extreme ultraviolet data tak.js. 
thai we have scheduled throughout the reaaining days of the nutcncaou:i 
activities. In fact we start out the raorning tonorrow with ivn of 
those particular passes. 


Ticie: 05:35 CDT 

PUDDY ^ - - on those activities. In fact, ve start out the 

morning tomorrov vith two cf those particular passes. Just to kind 
Of briefly run over aorae of the problems and make Sure that ever/body under- 
stands vhere we're at as far as status. When I talked to you the last 
two briefings about the fact that we thought we had some sort of a leak in 
tne helium valves, from the furnace, and as a result this was going to 
eliminate some of the samples that we were going to place in the furnace 
and extend considerably the length Of time that was required for th* 
cool-down portion cf this particular experiment. Deke. after we had 
initially reported that problec, did go down >ind cycle those valves and 
lew end b*hol<? yesterday when we started plotting out the data on tne 
cool-aovn, we found exactly the rate that we would expect to see 
with the heiiua injection. So, to the best of our knowledge right now 
the helium injection procedure is going to work and we are now back on 
a nooinal timeline as far as our sample. It does not look, however, 
because of the timi that we've lost that we are going to be able to g^>t 
into the one symbolic, lead-gold sample, but that's the only one that 
we're aissing at the present lice. How that's - I don't want to insply 
to you that you will not hear over the air-to-ground loop, some ch&nges 
in the times that ve wish to either ^tart a sample or in the times we 
wish to inject h^liuzB. We're stii. kind of feeling our way along on 
these things as far as hw long it takes to heat up. how long we go 
through a paasive cool-dovn and vhen's the best tlrae to go ahead and 
inject the heliua as far hs the Rctive ccbl-down. You nay of "heard 
yesterday that ve had a coma echo nroblem. And ve ran quite a bit of 
testing. And Neal aay have mentioned this in his press conference last 
night. But we've really traced that down to a tine delay associated 
with the SIHO VHP uplink from sc«e of the STDK sites aftd the S-band 
uplink through the ATS. And our procedure to Vork arovmd this particular 
probl^-a is, vhen we do have that simultaneous STDN coverage and ATS 
■■cve:-sgi., is Just to delete the '/HF Uplink capability fron the STDN 
''■.tfs. It's always standing there as a backup, in case we lo>e the 
•-:',nd froa ♦he ATS. But ve think that will take care of any -cho 
: rle- ■■ th- crev will hear. As far as the PP02 caution and warning, 
; • .. V on?* -nat occurred at the end of the hth transfer. Afjd ve 
V;ank/hf«T. tha*. va« really Just a result, of the PFO? beine In the vi<-tni»r 
* ^ ^'"^^ nomally «xp8ct it to triggarT And of course*, 

r - ;~:ii prc::'M'iures ^here are to go through an 02 enrlch?ient. The 
r,r: ;v-; ;re ur«.J, as far as th? 'yS pnrichoent, was to go into 

sr-i acti;«i ly use that ayatera rather than'the wjvi'f> ven'. 
.. ^. •-■cause 'here vraf, uoRe qvestioa as to whether or not the waste 
■^■j'V -.M-t^ procedure t where we flow throurjh the coamand tncdule system, 
-'^Hi ••••king r ■ •■;*rly or not. And it vas - and since ve were trying to 
'^'i «>n ti-r.c, V? lust vent aheaA and used the DMO? pro- 
.\nd fh. T la a very fast procedure. .The jproblea that arose 
X.' -h-*'. - f^n-l --i .--..ay havr heard it on the air-to-ground - ve gnt a 
■Vi : -^r a,r:-.;;5 85 : US?. ..n.i ve rho.ight Ih- crew vm asleep. 

irrjs ., ^h&t ^hey vore ,n;.t as l^^ep - cr at i^n^f one ;f the erovw-n 

•'/W/75 '™ 

ASTP (USA) PClilC/1 
Time: 05:35 CDT 


vh^t happened vas they ve^f^^iS^^'f ^" Pressure back up. Evidently 
the. Closed the vent/ AnToTZltT ITe'ol'' ^"^^^^ 
fairly rapidly; they, of courgr^M;), w t"" P'^^^^ure dropped dovn. 
catch it. ,hey vent'^;hcad S^J clcsjl Jh^ TT' ^-^^ ^« they d.d 

supply back on line and eC.fchlnrv J ' f"^ ^^^^^S^'^ 02 ^ 

no problem in that syste^ If vas capecetlc. So there Is - there Is 
^0.. Of the trar,3crlptc., ycu ni^t tMik'"th «i-to-gr. .r.d and you read 
PUDDY*''^''^ certainly Is nof ^ P^obleo 

sE^c":'""' ^^t^<^Sar^j:LcLf^Sat 2'havf ^ 5^ ^'^^ ^ a soDievhat dia picture. Ke'r^ ♦ Problem. It's 

craer to optim^e bur TV coverage n.f *?fjf«^* today in 

it', not an cptin>a^ T^ailty JohL? a usable earner a; but 

J-^ve the speaker box off iLt ni\ht yfi^ ^ S<>od thing the crev did 
the - sotr^ of our converaaUons T «^ have beard on 

control covers around the co^t^I'id! InTll" ^''^'^^ 
VhF, right on in to the^.H-ran -hf^. ^^"^ ^^^''^ 

f e..plng conditions. The c;.v di^* h ^''^ '"'^'^ rfimcuit 
Although. V. did track .lovn h. iu^ a'!::,'^r °^ ^^^^ ^^^^ night, 
inst ruction, to an irnst..rn a^l v'r i ! ^ '"''^ ^"''^^ «i^-i"S sor^ 

cor^anicatlons been hocked up a. « ex4c'ed ' V'^'"'' ^"'^ ^^eir 
ev ..ntiy vearing the head., va^ ev-Sntlv M 

^lidn't bother hir.. hearing that or lov wli^ ^'"^''-^^^ '^'^^ J^'^t 

been ca.Uing he'd probably vould have .^^^^ - *^ ^« ^^'l 

nave, also - you r^y h^ar «cie discLsionI ^ '^^'^'^"^ 
^o^e ye.terdiv.v, afco,,. several of the tel!.!? ^^ ^^ " "^^^ heard 
l^ir.y vild fluctuations . Ve s^^ a «o'rr7. f 
iccKiRg at the various Fara.T.ters .hat Portion. of the evening 
thfni dovn to 8 ccurlo S ^'^ . f ! '"^''^ We've tracked 

syste. that ^y h^Cj^:;/: ^ ^^^.^f ^ ^J^- the in:[r;;^:;tatlo„ 
po.nt in tir^e v. do not ha^e cnou.? da(^ tn J'^ '''' Particular 

vha so ever as to what th.> prob'S ^xIm indication 

pftrfl.«te:'s. ifs''Mr;'' mV- "tr,' V f"""' '"^ '^'^vt- ic^^t tho^e 
tior. Bu-.i re:iulrr-.\i. ~ '^""-^ ^'^ve .^ui te a bit of fb-c^u^ 

th. ^rnlV report .^^no'rL? ^^^^^'^^ ^Xe on it. F ; 

..ahen . l-ioiil . w: r^rr^r^;,!;^^-^'^^-^'^ h^ard lb. reror^ that he 

a vnstro inle.?tina. aiEtr-^^. \^<r:^J.:'1 ^'^'^ of 

point in tine tnat ve'rc no' 5^.-t.,rh , \ '"'^'^^f'^y scwething at this 
prescription on that, l^f^^ :tV"t,f:''''\''' '^"^^ 
Ani. ne reported that he tf :a;;nT J^"', MM"^'^ ^ ^« 6 hour., 
hov that Situation develops. C Vr^J^ ^^^^ '^^'^ 

i^ueh nore about that on«. H-r 'I ^k" f ^ '^^^'^^^ ^^"^ too 
to to you about a. ar al l^ ' vas goln« 

<^^tv.tie3 thht we plan to becoa* extenaiv,.- 

rjiv OF tap: 

Time: 05:35 COT 

become extensively inv^Jved L! rn't^riTLf^^I^^^^^ - Pl« to 

JJ. '''' ^" reaaining days of the aisslon. 

that look into spac. 'I^d v"'": ^!?*?h ""^ S^^ronoiay^typ. exp^riinents 
glow instrument/ it'll be det;r JnL^ tJ! ^^^^^ 
helium and. also. cieterminipHhf interstellar 
is the extreme -oltravloSt e^po^tmenT vJf^J^ °f ^^'^^'^ 
raster scan on tomorrov. If rve;v ^« l^^ ^^^"^ to be doing a 

due to the misalignment of the'eJiole 'Tthr °' 
band, ve need to determine the eSct ^i^t S h 'J''^^^"' '''^ ^^^^ 
on <5ays 6, 7. and 8, vhen ve arr^Lf? f ^ instrument, so that 
ve point right at then.! ^^t,^^ f^!. "^^^^^ sources, that 

that you cannot obser^; h4 " ^hf ground ''sI if?'^^ ^ --^-gth 
an experiment on this mission tLt T ^^'s - it is really 

usually kna. vhaf. go^ng " hlnJen" ^^'^^fP«^i=«^"t3 ve nan, vo 
Btellar sources, not kio?i;~ ""'^ ^^'^ be locUng at 

really exeite.i atout Si^ e?p;;i:en' acientiste afe 

that ve'li be run.^ing Is or ^r-^: ";n;erS! f astronomy ext^riment 
cult to view on the fro'Ir-rin" *^^^^=5ent. it, also, is ver/ diffi- 
b. looking at .teJLf:::'e ,-aLrT?ei ^"^^^^^^^ " He'lf 
vHvelength. is that the onlv on;c ;oi .!nt l'^"^''^?f ^^'^ 

arDD^ T th^nv ^ ! -ant to talk about ! Dr, - 

on the others. ^ ^"^^^^^^^^v else has their qu^atlons 


TV coverage that yout^ght Sec'^'oL^'^^K '^'"^^ ^^^^^ 

checked out ivo of thelfJaSra" 1k!^' .f^^^^ r^-' ^'^^ ^^i^ not 

hought had a problem vith arid, vou L^v H'''' f"^ originally 

it vas the J^or.ction box - and k-h t^'^H !' ^^^"^ 
Their proposed TV plan ^o-*Lt.. , X- ^^t*"-'or ca-vera. 

talking about sone of their m t^ll^tlT^. V^^T',:''''' '"'^'^^ 
Ar^i they have^d to Z^^^^f^l^' '>/^' ^ ^^^^^ cxterlcr camera. 

-Tort the ni,-; :.c;:;inh.:..:: r;;:..%-frr"«^r 

camera. But th.- j^arti j l^r ^ ^n^r^ i \^ be using itn Uternate 
vhere the flight online*,- : I gMn^^o ^I'l^ Provided. And r." 18-1. 

«o Change. »t t arti .ul Ir^Mn^tr is concerned, ve knov 

oth#..- words, ve'... ..X— -n^ I ''^'^'^ <^ovorage. In 

* ■^■^'^ ^-■ov-dG everything that's in the 

A5TP (USA) PC»*l-D/2 
Time: 05:35 CDT 

flight plaii. Since there's a - this Is the last tiae, I gueae I'll get 
a chance to talk vlth you concerning o'ar controller action with the 
Moscov Control Center for this particular mission. I guess I vould like 
to say that the flight, froo our standpoint, ana the interaction that 
ve ve had vxth our counterparts in Russia, ha? been extremely sm.>oth. 

J ! ^^.^^f^'^l^^'^ three Simulations prior to the mission, one 

of which did not involve - 


Time: 05:35 COT 

to the mission; one of'vhich d[d opportunity of 3 alm^ilatlons prio- 

l'T:^Jf' involved sLr 'd^tt rl'r/i' °f ^^^^ht co.trSl'"' 
that did involve all three tefl«:3 JJe^J IZ ^'^ *<=tual misaic. 

-tot of these people personall- n,,rl ^ «° Moscov, to aeet a 

ulntions and the fac? tSat ve'haven't ^L" "S'^ ^ ^'""'^^'^ ^no'^^t ofsL 
I thinX the interaction that v.":\^^:J,,* l^''^ race-to-face conta". 
has been outstanding. I don" thfnv control center people 

better. The specialist te^ thl^ ""^^ '^"^^ ^^^^^ ^or anytU^ 

2^^; they have been able p^oli e'L wth^'T ^^^^'^^ S^^i- 

mation when ve've made requests to tv«! I a treaendoiid amount of infor- 
for an initial Joint opera^I^n! it coSd';;ot"h ' '"^ '^ ' '^'r^ 

t-t as^our introduction. I'n 'open^ir^itr^^^.S^^!^^^-- ^^^^ 
QUERy J ^' 

PUDDY it.g uriderstandin"7r r ? °? ^^'^^ second docking? 

the maneuvering and the SoyurSl?^ Jvf , -"i^l doing 

^'J^Rf And viP ^ * . ''^^■^ a-^tive. 

'".'^i-"-' ■'i-'-'c-t"- JLi"" I - ™t positive vh, 

p.n ^"ank you. 

QUERY --'^^^-^a. 

com.,en>orate the ^Ut^ ^^ri^'^J^^'""^^ '^^ either craft today t^^ 
PUDDY ToTvi hi landing? ^ ^ 

Planned. - ^ ^novledge, no.'there 1. nothln, 

and vere unable to eo^tlulic.te'vitv.'rhei^'^f^?! ^'^''^^^ « ^^^^ 
ana ao you also knov whether or th^ Lf ^!-'V, 
comunicatlcns with their vives or\l,lf T^""^' vlH t^y . voice" 

PUDDY Y'«i^ K relatives? 

r do nnt >,«^f»,.„ 4.1.,. . ^^"^^ &ot soae good questlmj^ ^ . 

PAO ^een attonpted. ~ " 

^ ■■■ j ,i H'j out qi' .^^>♦ 

ASTP orbital i ncil naU^^^ s^'r li!?:'^:?'' \ !T ^^'^'^^ ^^^^^'^^^ ^-v^ 
north than ruiy previou'^ V.o. fU*fhf IrT-^ i ^ ^'''^^^^ ^•^rth^r 
be the first American ^pacej f n,. ^^J^.^?^^^"'"'^'' inntance. win 
true? ..n^..t^y ever Ix:)ridon. Ip that 

i find that hard to b^ulvi: ' S:;^;:; ^-^ '-"^o"- 

thought during SKylab ve had JH hL'''' ' ^^^l^* ^'^v. 

ASTP (USA) PC2.1E/8 
Time: 05:35 CDT 

not hear the vsVo „ ^ understand vnu t-^ 


ASTi> (USA) PCUlF/1 
Time: 05:35 COT, GET 
Da'.e: T/19/T5 

pyODY - - headset. So I thlt* I can say with certainty 

that not all three crewmen heard thfe weOteup stusic One of thea nay 
have but my understanding when I left vas that - that the voice con- 
munications indicated that none of then heard it. Yoii - you nay toe 

right though. 

PAO Bruce . 

QUERY Don, how many hours would you estimate that you 

spent and your team nsemhers spent in training for - for the flight, 
not particular aspects of the flight that you all gone throu^ before 
but in - in the Joint aspects, those that tooX special coordination 
with Moscow or whatever? 

PUDDY That question Bruce, h&a got to be brokers down 

Into a couple of different categories; We b«gan soae of .v^r negsotia- 
tions of course even before the Joint agtee=*nt was signed, I tnink 
back in 1970 there was seme initial very high level - cont&cts 
made. Of course there was some discussions aaongst varices people 
associated with the space agency at that particular point i- time. 
After 1972 when the formal agreement was signed, the 6Cti-.n^».y picKei 
up considerably. There were five working groups formed ar.i these 
pcr-.pie carried out detailed negotiations froa the standpoint ')f aaXing 
the necessary modifications to the Soyua, aaJtlng the necejstn' aodifi ca- 
tions to the command module, getting the docXixig module bui.i inter. acmg 
vith the satellite, the pressure environaent changes that vere necessary 
to prevent the - the nitrogen problem. These went on and jmt tersinated 
really right before the mission and I think there was pro"bably on the 
wftrage of ? to 3 in some cases according to the working group as many 
ns'ii Joint fieetings per year, with a lot of work in betvees. As far 
as the actual around the clock, so to speak, support of sis'iiations 
with all the flight control teams Involved from the both the Moscov 
Control Cent.>r and our Control Cf^nter and :rew involveoent ''rom both 
sides I thin}; it was in January that ve had the first Bli'Tiilatlon and 
of courc-e ve had nnbther one - veil excuse rje there vas c.e in December 
that didn't involve all the tewaa. We had one in March lr.%t involv<!i 
f.M of ther.. Ve had another one in the latter part of J-ir.e . firpt part 
of July that involved all of the element e. 
PAO Jacques - - 

PUDOY 1 don't know. Bruce did that answer ynr riuestlon 

trt the level fOM wanted? 

qUEHY It's bfcauoe I have to ran I'n or ry - v&j^er.o-l up i^y 

nvorning music. kind vas it? 

Tpm^m We had Tenderness on this morning, Js-i-i^a. 

QUERY W"nnt? 

PUDDY Tei.vicrness. 

QUERY Oh, okav thank you. 

PAO Yes, Brace go aht-SMl aftd finish yovir r^rttion. 

qUj:ry Yes. I quces - how rtuth of th*ii vm i*ts.iU'i mi 

f.fiy as far as flight control activities in training an^ y">;'ve got your 

Tioe: 05:35 CDT, GSl' 
Date : 7/19/75 

3t„3 en. vorx that .ou put outsj^ae or ei^^ direcUy^ln tne 

joint f P-^^J' ^^V^vfets ^Lrtha^ ylTZl^ not have 
uniquely vith the Soviets. -hings i.naw g^^ii^ nature vithout 

been doing otherwise, say we had a flight pi a ^ „ -^^ 

the Soviets, some unilateral flight but then you t-^^.^^^^^*^ 
:S:.-^at^inda o. thi.^^^^ 

dovn thV exact number .f hours but let - -2ort:\Moh*oT ouisf ar^ 

poirtt as Hooting ona of the P'^^f ^^Jjf ^^o you earuJr where ve 
of course then the simlatlons ^ loint activitj time line 

essentially picked up at s«ie point in the Joint activit.> 
and xisually vent up through the - - 


ASTP {\J6A PCl*lG/l 
Time: 05:35 COT 

LI f.I ? "^"^ sinxaated or vere conducted by prin:arilv 

module systems and to a certain decrep nr f>,^« L commana 

we had a direct interface T th^rv .'v, Jl^ ^""^^ systems vith vhich 

joint activities or solo aptivi + <a=. t„ not yoxu- taxKing 
where our desire il to feed nJn they're the type 
„ ,. , '^^aA't AS xo leed into tj e system as nany DMblf-ras njs v<i 

Ken f Lr'^out S '^"^^ ''^'^^^ ^ po^i^ry c^ 

proMe:^.? Prooedm-es that vo would havered t<, .ol^-^ those 

^'■^fv' , ^^'^^^ ^''"■'''^ t^'^ " >iow coEBmni cation and 

cooperation went in co • rdi nrt f r - -^r ih^ . ^^aLiun ana 

•+ . — <.v.-rainf.iic : of the two control centers - Hcv 

cr ;r:^i^xz^z:r^^ ,„ 

you good at it, vere you bad at it. vere yo-a l^iLrTl H yo^ 
exr.>rts now at worsting together? That's Iho kind of thit ^ 

^ ^^^'^'^ "e'r^ - when ve firt started out - i 'h^nw was .orne reluctar^ce to f^ally discu.. each andT;ery nUlen 
.n Simulation that we've h^i. that i. improved anHuJi^g the 

It I JerhL'^-'"? T ^^enificant cha^^e. I thir^ we ItlJt.d 
Iri 1^ ? ! coordination and exchange of infcrniacior 

if 1 understar.d the vay, or the question that you're asking I w. lid 

^-.n't contingency plan if Soyu^ and Apollo 

rnilJ'f!..,. - .^^r?' r'^f ■ ^^t'^' according to he. r,ar.y 

of the new doc-kin^ system is tho fact, that tc«ardle?4 rvf rht^h«^^ 
syst.. v*a ..tiv., When ve perfom th; initill^^^x . oi Jhrini ' la. - eit'.*r *yet«^ uan used to undock. So. certainty c^r 

por.^rm v!-.e 'andockin«. There's no reason to believe that - one of 
the tw or Iht- la not going to work. ■ 

™o ^° further queniohs? 

' '-'J'^V l»hank vau. 



Houston, Texas ' ■ >^ 

ASTP Cha/ige-of-Shift Debriefing #13 
Lyndon B, Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texas 
^'uly 19, 1975 


v;iw fffj^',^^^ '^'^ ^ ^^^Kht Director 

.rank Littleton, ASTP Teaa 1 Joint Flight Director 

Cent. Marlanetti. Public Affairs Officer 



Time: 17 : 32 CCTT . 105 : 12 GKT 
Dat-e: 7/19/75 

■PEAI'iER vill you please be seated. Dave. Okay, this 

is the change of shift briefing and participants again today vill be Pets 
Frank, the r .ght Director and the Joint Flight Direction, FranX Littleton. 

FRANK Again todaj', I Ju3t like to make a very brief 

sumaary or statement about the - the activities of the day. We have 
flovn the today ^ust about exectiy as ve expected. I shouldn't 

say quite af ve expected but ve got the things accomplished that we intended 
to accoapliijn. Not in precisely a noainal manner in every case but all 
the that ve planned to ccnduct, we completed at least so 
far. Of course the crev is still vorking and vill continue to vork 
for some tiir^e today. I thought you it vas a very interesting day. This - 
thi- particular period of flying in close proxiiaity to each other in ^ 
orbit\.rud-Jce,: I tho'oght was eor.e really great pictui-es and that s 
^o-'-^hir^ I've r^cen lookirtg forward to fro3 the very beginning of the 
Wit-h' aril - it s'^e iived up to ny expectations. That - those scenes 
of the Sovur ■i? ve cane over Africa and the Mediterranean there 
vere lust' really spectacular. The solar eclipse experliaent looked to 
Ee liXe it - ;t vas a^cospiishea aa veil as anybbdy, could expect, 
ass-.iming all thf; equipment vcrke-J cf course. The piloting task 1 
thought vas - had to be done very well because ve kept the Soyuz oc- 
culted for sctToxtsiately 150 aeters of range and that - that's pretty 
such'- pretty* cior« to the aftXiwuK v© expected vas .possible . The UVA 
experiment, had soizt prjl-j.eM in '-•or..ductinjtf: thst t)ut I thirA.the 
crev'5 perfornsjice vas Just outstanding. Tl-jat Job vas ;one of the most 
Qiffieu'i'. tnlnga that I thirJs has ever been Rcc<MipIifih*d in a space- 
craft, for the pilot that is and 1 thought Deke did real?y a superb 
',ob -n thai. And I J^st hope the data that he got i« as good as his 
Vitili that deftonstrated in flying that thing. Tliere v&s scwe 
■ n^ercting jnteractions betvee;^ IM Moacov &nd Houston Control Centers 
'^nihHX - t>H* oarticular expterlE^^nt that I'll let Frank elaborate en 

hfi i-> ask t;.« Russians to go to an alternate attitude tine 
Un.- becau'j^ of the concern that one of the retrv^ reflector covers vas 

. th'--- r<^'flr^cioT vas r.-it vorking properly. And that vai? 
.i:.r.M-Msiij5hei. I «juess that'.' alout it; Ve - ve did a lot today. 
uA-Tl rrre -"^ pre pell ant than I think has ever been used in any one 
.li^y, about fcio" pounds of it. getting all 'his vork done. Frank, I - 
T v:-r.i lik" yon to elaborate sotnc Kore on this on this iniftrfacf here 
vith the K'-3iar^£ ir. getting thnt -iUernHte profll** vorX-d out. 

MTT' Oka;/. We iii the fiisi dal« *. aKe on the 100 - on 
the ;r,'A pxrr>'ir^>nt. the on« vc c^il; th<» 150 aeter data take and from 
; piiotingstandpcint m<i cp^r»licnr -iandpoint, ft vent vrry veil. We 
.^ot the dftt%» the recorders vt-re going atid the -Jata vas you kn«v being 
recorded and the g-oys in the back ri>>«, the PI, ^.nd his frUnus 
^ ihok at H 6nd said ge<?, you knov there's sc.r.e thing that d^esn t lo(& 
rl«ht fibcti' this data. Ke think ve've got a problem here . i<*cke llKe 
V- "didn't (t*t vhftt ve expected «it W« - ve loyk^d over the p»r«* 

metorA ' ^:;e ..xccrinent of the iat-^ av«i^_iMe frcr, -vnllnk fron the 
CSH - - 

KNu OF TAx'? 

ASTP <USA) PClj3B/l 

mo'm ^'-''^ 105:17 GFT 


all. We xooked over the paraaet-ra ^« expected at 

Pieces cf equlpiaent that - kS'^r^iJ^A 7.^ startracker and several 
good. s. the conclusion va' ^'J^'L Job^,!^«^-P«-l»ent; it vaB Si 

inc. \: figured Bermuda for th^^^ , . through the use of - 

instructions to their crev through thaMt ^f- '^^^ ^^ie to give 

TtHn ~ ^"^^^ "^"^^^ ^'e vere to r^*"*'" reaction tli« 

exp S:t"'Sti%\r^^ ^ ^-^^^ PI-rverf"::t:\'" ^^'^^^ 
ii. 7 ^^'^^^ vas obtain*,? *v. ■ qjite happy with *hf 

Iss':^ed ' r^^--^^-tcr »oun e'^'.r t e ^i^'- 
^slTt f.^^^^^'-^"^ attitude for *v^s -.?^,f^^'*: ^"^y"^. ani they 
es.entiaUj. the long axis of f I J" , C'-/''^"^^*« vhich va^ 

that the aft sK.rt of f,. v^Mlir;:! ?^^''"<^ic-^'vr to the orbit plane 
^ata on that rear r-.rore fleeter «:/ - And ve took 

frca the Pi's is they vere .uU^^^^^^ '^'^ ^«PO'"t Thad 

on that in the earlier pr^sTlZ^^^^'T ^^l, j'^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^'-ted 

' y"^' " '^'^ interface ^ith' Cc^v V.'t^r ^"t 

Questions? ^^^^ Situation. 

H(^e.6A aro-and quite a bit vL^ ! k "locking that the ?ovu2 

^lering vhy that^happe^ed? '''' '"'^ "'"^^^^^ capture; ? Von. 

FRANK Okav t)- 

vere not perfect. rtJe\lT <-^ondltions of the contact 
va. the tvo vehicles moving a: thefvel t "T^''' s»v 
tnat - these flouer peta^Il^JL^ "^^^^^^^^^ by the «ecL. 

'It :' ^""-'^ vehicle., irtc ^he ri^v ^ ' approxiaateiy 

^'"^ happening. ^"or capture, and 

a^chanism? * ^ "'^ -ilure on the part of tho Soyus locking 

a'" f'' '"'^^^^^''•■^ at ail. 
«^«yti^ before SoyL'JSIdr v< n JS^"^'" ^'^^^ other nov, 

but we'll continue to separate and irZ a} \ s^a-prised if they did 

increase fros thi« point*'; -ili continu^^o 

'-htr again? ^^^''^^ ia/jdg, to see each 


timt 17:37 COP, lOJiiV 08*1? 

FRAHK Ko. We'll cohtlnu9 Xo tepardU nil th« way, 

QUEHY 144 you get an «xaot on the final undocklneT 

FRANK T, <|on*t have It vlth ««• No, I donH ren«c^er what 

it vas. V« th\ak it was 99i20. 

LimSTv'N Jt va» <- it va« right on what the flight plan said, 

and I'll looK and Dee if yrni'd lilte, It vaa right vhere it should have 


FRANK Oh, valt a alnutej the wdocklng. That vaa 99 '06: 15 

That's right. 

SPKB Right In there. 

llTI'LBTOfI 15 seconda later that the nominal plan. 

QUERY Yeahi I vas iooiiing at aoese of the figures, you know 

froa the orbit tnaneuvera, and it looka like you only slowed the spacC'^ 
craft Aov)5 by about kO aiies an hour or so for entry, t was wondering 
vhy - - 

e?jd of tape 

Ti<o«J 17j1*2 CDT, 105:82 OBT 

If^^ ' " normal plane. 

qUiSRY Yeah. I vas looking at sone of the figuros. 

you *r.ov for aeorbit nevneuver* and looks like you only clovea the 
spae«orftft Jovn by about l»Q alUu an hour or so for entiy. I va« 
vonaerlng, vhy don't you use that big engine to slow It dovn more to 
reduce ihe heat as it reenters the atmosphere? 

vmiK Well, the deorbit maneuver la - there's a lot 

of tolerance on hov much delta-V you can use for a deorbit. There's 
u trade-off between a aaximum acceleration or deceleration of the load 
factor that you get. and if ypu eiov down too ^uch in orbit, you build 
up the load factor at reentry tremendously and it'e - it 'a lust a 
trade-off or a combination there of the heating and vhafs best 
f.-n- hetiting is worse than for the deceleration loads. 

H'-Jm What did the alternate Soyus aanouver involve, 

compared to what it would have done nominal by , if you hadnH asked 
Mdscov to have them change the plan? 

-f^m ;;B sorr>-. Craig say it - I didn't understand. 

, ''h&t did the alternate Soyui maneuver involve, 

compared to what it would have involved if you hadn't asked Jtoscov 
to alter their plana? 

FRANK Ok^. Actually, the naneuvering requireaenta were 

les-s lor this alternate case than they would have been for the ncninal. 
.he Soyuz ended up in exactly the right attitude, after t.he first 
iat« take. They - In order to visually track Apollo as it ease 
in - back in close to SoyuE. After that data take they had yaved 
their vehicle around and were looking at Apollo out the side window. 
So that when we got back in plane they were in this 90 degree yaw 
attitude. And no to go to th« alternate pla... they siapiy had to delete 
tueir planr.ea maneuvers following that. Now - a^d that wL e8sent«ally 
-he uain task was to corwunicate that fact to them, that we did not 
want theffi to follow the nominal plan. But to Just stay right where i 

mm (Garble) 

A "Tf-'^ ^^^^ ^^''^'^ ^^'^ '^'-^^^^^ - ^^^^'^ f-'^ve yaved 

f^^^^ '^h^^ visually tracked Apollo around as it vent through 
ir.e 500-jEeter data take. ''vu«.i 

QUERY Milt Rein related 30Re inforiaation to nie. t wonder 

1. you could confirci. which is that, at tlree of Soyut deorbit the 
two craft will be about 200 nautical ailes apart. And as such, Apollo 
nr..v can follow Soyuz through their sextant, should they chose 1 5 do 
^ ^^'^ ^^"^ you confirm that? 

FRANK I think that's right. And whether they can see 

t.ien or not will depend on the lighting. I don't know whether that's 
good or not . Do you? 

LITTLSTON I'm really not sure about that. 

QUERY You spoke earlier about Deke Slayton'a akill during this 

J\ experiment. Coula you elaborate on that a little bit? Do you mean 
his - the vay he was controlling the attitude of the opacecraftT And 
what Old that require on his part? 

n^«t cor, xojsa? okt 


FRANK p« trying to think of the 2, the vertica diatanc*. 

It'j - nov Pve got a plot of that stuff . that tho little trijectoJJ 
profile aoroas there. I vould - you got it there. I ijd^'t brHg S 
glaasea vhat la that dlatance there? ^ 

LITTLETON Ifs Juet put off in degrees and then it'a the NOUN 

r™r,n.« If®"' ^^'^ (garble)? 

LITTLBrON (Garble) 

$f 8 5'^greeat ^"hftf 8 that dimension right there? You it nov vhat - 


here I^f 1 a ^^^J" ^^*''?c^ "^''''^ ^ ^ ^''^^^ *il<^«'^ 

i f that vin tell you 

aw?«y «^P*^:!;l<'" h« could Btand and still get that Job right. 
q'JBRY The oegree of attitude any - - 

^^^^ ^" Fitch axis. 

StuERY Pitch 

QUERY Hov about the distance itself. Hov crlU'-al is that 

''^^^ "^^'''^ ^^^^^^^^ 500 meters or exactly i1o I - 

FRANK No. there's a little tolerance on that but I could 

I couldn't tell you vhat that vas. "»^n«T. i could - 

LITTLFTON ^ X guees the thing's that's critical about the - 
the distance is that fly - flying this complete prciile. you have to 
be careful to stay pretty close to nominal all tL vay thr^Lh l^ you'll 
get a built up that'll put you - you knov if you're off a little bit 

^° the second leg. and you're 

going to be vay off on the third leg. So it - it has to be maintained 
pretty carefully All the vay through. =»»int8inea 

aftar^'^hf! . . k - ^^^^i f ^'''^ ^''^"^ *° ^^^^P*" '^"trol room 

^ ^^^"^'^ °" ^^^y eoing out Of buaineaa? 

•/^'^ You mean the group here in Houston? 

QliERY No sir, the group in Moscov. 

SPEAKER Are they going out of busineaa? I don't thirJi so. 

You Bean rather on this mission of courae. no they 're- going tp aaintaln 
a co«^anication line with us - but they're eaaentlailyl yes ^hey^e 
eSBentially poverlng dovn their portion cf their support. We'll keep up 
sc.r.e co^^u/iications until ApoUo'a splash but that's about all. ^ 

^*ve some Joint experiments vith the=. and I knov 
ve won't have ar^ Joint maneuvers vith then, but vill they ha;e^ny f^Xr 
contributions to make to decision making? ^ fu.ther 

bellev^v^ ^nnM ve've . ve've completed the Joint experiments. I 

^ T ! ? ^^'^ ^ saaplea thai are left In there 

.0 I think ve'vo cOEipleted an the Joint experiments. 

km imk) PC* 30/2 

Tl»«i nikl COT, X05;2T 0«T 

<iUERy In the UVA *xperiioent this aftorrjoon, did the eoswonauta 

control thftir ovn apacecraft, or vaa it being conlrolied fro» th« ground. 

FRANK No the coflmonauts wer^ in control. 

QUERY And vhen you say that the Apollo spacecraft that - 

the cr«w vas going to different nodes of control. It was fay imderatandlng 
that there Is only one way to control It - throug>i the RC8. Whet do you Bean 
by different iftodea? 

FRANK I nean by different ©cdea of controlling the RCS - 

through the computer, throu^ the aecond^ry control syatoma. 

QUERY What vculd that be? The aecondaryt 

FRANK It's the aec > secondary sya tea uses body mounted 

attitude gyroi., and takea Inpute froa the hand controller. 

QUERY Nov that ve have conpleted the Joint phase of the 

mission there has to be a treEendous feeling of relief that cooea from 
not only over the crev, but you guys as well. What - how has that been 
manifested through the crew and in mission control? 

FRANK Well I don't - there is aoroe recognition the fact 

that we've completed the Joint phase of the oission, tut that's all it 
vas it vaa one phuoe of it. We still have several oore doys to fly, 
mi - I really haven't notice atiy - anything that would manifest itaelf 
in something you could observe as « you're looking for some Kind of 
big relief feeling I haven't - seen any of that either in the crew, 
or in the control center. 

QUERY We've still got a long way to go to - - 



TiBej J7tj2 CiJT, 105{32 «ET 

LITTLETON , you're looking for aoae ktnd of a tig relief fe«llr 

FRANK VeWtf atlU got a long w*/ to go tg ar.ish ud the 

«i«8ioa ftxr as ve'r* concerned. I gueas I did have a ?ind o? a 
d 8CU,aion with «y counterpart about aplashdovn part?« . You kncv 
^f, Vr^''\"*'* ^ aplaBhdovn party, bit ve couldn • t decide 

«boul Moscow because their spacecraft doesn't land in the water 8« 
we decided they'd have a thump down party. * ®° 

that A ^.^ ^^"^ ^o^"'' ^^'"'"^^^ liuidlng. how conatant ia 

^Jv.n in! y Have a Eoyu« flight plan. We've never been 

givt>n one. We have been given a time for deorblt, and the landing 

Ani if so, how ffiuch change? How auch variation? 

niJuf!! A . ^ '"^''^^'^ ^"^^^''^ to ^Hhin a natter 

'-f minutes, and not very laar.y minutes at that, because they're prettv 
^uch on nominal trajectory right nov. ^at are we. a couple :f'Sil3 

h^'f !^ ^" ^'"^ "^'^^ ColliRt! mentions the fact that if 

'. V i . ^^'f '^'^ ^^^^^ wouldn't have the trouble 

s^.T.e situation sotnetioes ginbal lack. 1 vas wonderin« what ia inil.* 

''^^^""V^r T'' ^"^^^'"^ ' ^-■'^ sitult oS. rr, no 

i understand viiy that would happen. 

.M, ^^'^Jf*''^^ How a fourth gyro wc-dd prevent giabal lockT Well 

t-frot lyT '"''f '"'^ '^'^ y^'- "^^'^t It's no 

Z.IV S to explain. It Just gives you another degree of 

freedor:. in the way ycu suspend the gj-ros. '^'^ atgree oi 

SPKR^ s2^^ ' *° '^^'^^ ^""''^^ 

FRANK Any other questions! Thank you. 


Howton, T«xas 

AST? Change-of-Shift Briefing #15 
Lyndon 3, Johnson Space Center 
Houston, Texas 
5:03 p.m. COT 
July ?0, 1975 


Franlf. C, LitMetcn, AST? Flight Director 
Bchsrt L. Crippen, ASTP Capsule Comunicator 
Da-t'e G&i-relt, Public Affairs Officer 

AST? (USA) PCl>5A/l 

r\mt 17:03 CDT, 130:1*0 OCT 

PAO We are ready to begin our 6; 00 change»cf-8hifi 

brinfing. To «y imediate right la Frank Littleton, Flight Director, 
etni to hia right is Bob Crlppen, tVie Cap Comb for the day. KrajrJi. 

LITTLETOH Okay. Well I'll Just follov the pattern that you've 

b'jtfn 'jaing for these shift briefings and Just glvo you wy larpreflaion of 
'i</ise of the things that we did toio:/. Bu3iortily» toiay via spent 
gathering experiment data, and with the exceptlori of one inatriuuent 
they vere having soac probi-esij? vithy it' si boen very, very 3ucce3Sf\-.l . 
The PI '3 are quite elated by data they are getting froa the HJV 
experinent and a\ffo froa the Helium Glov HUj-.'arir.t-nt . With regard tu 
X-ray, we've - ve got a problem with it we Just cIojiH lujjerstand yet. 
It isEi't working like It should. It acesis to be tec-perature related. 
'»v g«t gu'jj datfi vhen we could "^fttiv- '"h*- ':'Xperiir.t;rit. approxlBateiy ai room 
t*?ffiperAture. Whtn it gets sev<>ral degrees colder. It's not functioning 
<:i;4ite right. Ve hhve gotten bursty of good datn from it, aaid we're 
4.-oirig to coriti!iu« T.0 try to get it aquared away. And if we're lucky 
we will be able '.c get soiif? usefui itiformtion frcw it. I thiiik todv 
vaA a very t-isy for the crew. They rtfnliy hfii q-;itG 6. few things 
i-oif/j;. It's oj'irae, their i'lrat of opera'-ionK without the Soviets, 
hsii f-.ll in all, : think q,"-''^ huntaliy U was - it was a succtssfiil 
.'.ay; rVfb , vc:uld vou like to aii arsythir;/;'^ 

•JPir'PBi I thought you Just brought m over for moral support, 

-;-a.",K. I iidr.'t .^-T.c-v you k<? to d%y anything. No. I was very 
pleased with today's activities. It - rrlor to the flight wo wondered 
^.bout how h<>av>' to uiake thea--; ac . ivit ie:) becau.^e a:>ving aro^ind inside 
-,h« -oFHTAui Roduie, as r.ost of you %re p.-obably aware, is a iittje bit 
difficult, a-id trj'ing tc schedule three g.'jyt; f-'ill tisse and still be 
tibia to get evei-jahing dene Is 3cnevhat llffieult. And they've had - 
they've bf-ei; worhlr.g and i-pending a lot of hours up with the Joint 
q-'tivUies, and ve're tiying to put i.his at a level which would get the 
data ve wante:i ■Vi^'i net get cne s.z'iother - in'':) one ft;.otii^?r ' a road. And 
I tr.,jup;ht we were - froB what it sounded like toduy, we were fairly 
succ'pssful with And I thIr.K all the ::r<w - and when w-i finished 
up whtr> : if ft ■..■■.■-r 'hi.'rv a \,hile ;i*!o, wer^: ^oundin;.;. 'sfi thc-'.;gh they 
vere gettiiis; hlor:f ^,:/ad, r.:.!l too t,.};-i<d and were enjoying the day, too, 
ar;i th«it"':' va/ we t-^.^t i?^. 

PAO Ck"y. With that we'll .pen tip fur qv.'.-ations . 

.;5JERv Are you g'^'S havi ng ■ a :'r;t; tri-uhU': .:'0(;>ririg the space- 

craft or scKething! I heard aoae talk sbout runnir.g a line frost the 
docking xo-i'ile into the coaitaand wdulfj. 1 'is not Rure what it was about. 

1'! hV.TOlf Let Ee tell you what it vtis about. Y'rai., we have 

Ltftf.': hav;:tg 30^:* c.-obie!::^. W'e got iti a situation where we got soce 
wjter in the ';vap'-:jrator duct, arid apparently it's frozen. And when 
•he duct ir, Ciosed off like that, we don't get the additional cooling, 
arid we were concerned that the crew was going to get uiK^ostfortable . 
It dcean't present any threat at all to the equipaeni, but ve like to 
keep tnat evayjorator available to cool the crew if it's necessary. As 
it t-j.rried o'..t , the gpacecrnft i$ rutwing a little bit cooler than 

AaW (USA) >^Cl*5A/2 

11:03 130; UO OHTf 

Y/2.i/ /5 ji * \ 1*5. We ay&8*9^**^ 

additional crew comfort. ^ evaporated 

th.y needed it. ^ ^^^^^ .,Hh. you Knov. the .va> 

duct - - 


1 vupoi - space 

" Have a ques^i- _ tae .j,^5reea l"^ 

nax- ^ eraser &t e , degrt-^o 

FAU vfHftt is ^t^^ \ m the order 

^mKY , Oh. i^'^ than that 

Cftl>'?y« „i^ht ft iit^^' 
'-^^•-'-f o 10 right nc^. v^ere «^^,^;,',%ee the Soyu. retro 
„Uht closer to ^^^e ^rev he ahie to 

- rt>^ -'^^ \:X 
;r.:,55 ■""■""/eu-rr. .^^^^troe^:^" "^"ir^r... - 

fAO P«tty "''^ ^t nndWe ou*' ported. ^° 

una and 30r« , - 

c » '-vrA't «« 

ASTP (USA) I'C^5B/2 

T4iM»i 17«06 COT, 130i»*5 OET 


cr<ilff«rent about this landilRg. kiM I expect - as I ajid I I'xpect to 
bew froi the Mr^scov Co,>trol Center that it all vent woU. 

^^RY IftSl'ianding 5 = 51 our tine? I - X have hear ci 
..outTeSoo different ti«ee, and V. very -f-f ^f^/^^^" ^^^"^ ' 

TlOTliTON Okfty, well ve'U look and see here. 

CHIpFkN ThtJi); ve can convert It - h6 in about retro - 

LITTLETON Yea, ^6 is about retro fire - 

ppiFP?-'N it's ilHe betveen 5 an^i - , , v, i„<,v.<.., 

'i'jrnEm Yea. I think it'll - they'll probably te Ushing 

.o...l;lr; ao3e to .bout ^.kO or .o.ethine like that in the r.rning. 

o!r!'the HuBBians told ae 5 = .0, and then I had y.kO. 

^?Sr^??5;'^'''wef^: rlo^^think ve have their specific splash- 
aovn :^.hey^.on.t splaahd^ • Jou^dov.^U^ . ^^^^ 

^-•^ ^^^r '*'. ^ ve eould ^u^t sort Of get an 

^ , ! '-ri HAPfi pAO place so we coxdd find out I oean - - 

^^"'^'^.nl^N ^ ^ v^fdon't ,et up 10 ninutes early in the ^rning. 

?Jl'Lt1Sl^n;. iiSn^e^AO ..a over in the 

^.CB. that they -uM^ ^E^: ter^::i about Hussia'e ren^sai 

to shJ! t^.evisien pictures of Apollo yesterday? And vas there any 
sort of furlher interface - nefiocia - - 

mV> C¥ TAPE 

A3W (U3A) P^'*5C/1 
Time: 17:13 COT. nOi50 GET 

,»fM«»il to ahow television 
q,;ERY - - ^r/^^L'/irt^: anj o^ff father Interface 

'.icturfta uf ApoUo yesterday? An<J vaa *^ f^^^^, <,V.e Russian 

Coa.tion on that today or any .ore J^^^^^/^^'J^f,, , ...otUted that 
aTPlETON Well, Ua ne ^^^JTi „L » r.'fu3iLl on their part 

. .attor of fact. anC I^ion-t thlnX U w«. a ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ 

at Ta^y>- iaia they --'^-^J ; a couple of 

«uU and diar.'t for .or.e rea.-.:.- Tnl^ vatching pictures of 

1>V*3 that uer.nH ^^f/.^ff of a goo4 thing to see a picture 
siyu.. we ai.rly '''^'}'f,^;'^'^^l^to^i^i to da thla. Knowing vhon 
of Apollo, kni I '"' 4 that between the tvo of U3 ^ 

-:::t,^"L^i i^r ."4,= ?t - - - -.n^-ar^r 

v.bicle .irvi ^'^-^^^^^^ Tft^v '-a^'i to their TV people, who 

tlrr. t. cet their ca.-.era down ta.d /^^.^ for interior shot, and 

: aaU that the camera vas set up and de .^..e gotten It set up 

probably wouldn't have gotten ; fusal on their part at 

ecrUuy. He I dpn't fee ^^^^^^^^^ J^ev weren't able to do, 
all. I thin, x-nat U y^^^" Lru'f^cba.:y worth .orienting that ve 
CP.IPPE-5 I thlrj^ >ha. - P ,,,^3 in any of 

pin Eili Gregory. Vitle bit on the ter.p- 

eratu« irob:,e. with the ^^^^^^ ;o.u have had them«l ccntr.l^ 

I.nTLPr-; •■'^^\^ '""f^^^-o ^ rk ^ fairly wide r.n^^e _ 

';r;.e;..r.ture..- It_i.n't tnrou .0.. t,, ,ee at t.. Hind, 

none of us -.^niersvai.. qu^te v.y ,.e^ «,s . ri..ct:cn 

thi'^fi- that the exper.r.ent do.t.^ a,^^ ^ fairly new problem. 

:^i:!:,at.ure but vc haven-t gotten ^^^^t.l 'l^v i hoj^e ve've >rot 
r-.tu^e if. going to be vcrXe. ^^-^f ^ l^^":,,,. a^d effect 
„ bett-r fu-.sver for you tcr.orr^^. ^.j - ^y.en the lesrcerat ure 

SPEAKES (Oirile) j, h.pvy for you 

that you're going to heal aii 

Will tjet everything thU ocfl«a In the MOCR? 

LimiT' H I lior.'t kriov what the fset up U for that. I i <;«r«r ii 

^'^plo Our iAO ttt th.- ccnaole in tJ.e MOCR vlU rel«y everything 

thht iis going or-, in 'Axe M^X?. Kverylhi ng that - » 

trrrLt'T-Oli An^ I r«aUy - I don't want you to aUunderst«L.d 

vhHt i sft5 L I 4on't tx^-ect tht^R tD .^ali eveiv two or thr^e ainu-.ea «n4 
^i-.-f- -I. d b.iv bv J^..:ripti.r. of . tht-y dU xhis mnneuver »ra they 

il'i f firir.g W.'l they're cn i-iam chvit«;i arid touchdown <ind a.11 

It'fi ali over I exi«ct their flight ai rector probably to t*..; 
•n^ir lead flight :li rector probably to tag ujt with Pet© Frank. Axi-1 
1 thi->. It'U te the sort cf interchange where Yellsey«v .will say. Fete 
v."^a^,-'--i oha.y. Everythipg'G fine. ^ crev's veil. 3fta:i their 

rl.nric, ci.Mh and .0 fcrrh. I .'ionH expect a ietniled '^^-^^l^^: 

There vv-. » rucor floating arcunl ti.&t the !-^..nan8 
...A ^:^,^{ ir troy cculd rt-^^rv^ an hour of TV ure vn your net. 
Vherr^ '^y thing to '.rrnt? H%ve you he^»rd ^ythiu^ like tha - frcf, .a:.'iln« 

■ rr'H-KTOS "o. haven't. ^ 

••^;sY A few r. ,.ce:n:;; o . DeA<j 3^ti>'ton cwSiplRlnei 

...a-'e'r^^. httitua^ wasr.'r. 'julte right f ; r Er^rth cbuervations . - 4.7n t 

*h.ngs va. Bllpj-in? hy tc. :^st for - o on..rv«-. rir.t .f . , ar^ 

y..vj going chwge the attituie cf the ^^pace^rsfi - - 


J," 1 :V,„vv tfj..;'-- f.^^. -..riire-iy Uk- i^jv^Vae- is au« to 

,.^.::i,:',.t' .vur .■;:r\:,t i,.. ^^ti^ui. thH' the' :„ f vit-V 

*.,rv'r.^'"v"- at ''"-^^ thir^'^^ Just 'Oi,^ 'Kr^u^h i^ C«irlj 

:Uv/ "::r:.;,...a, r..v- ^ l_.t r t... iVK .t i 

.-.,v;.u..-:^' Mie ^ ^ . ft • ..^^ vcu..^ :v then a largev - 

■■iV^ ..AvV. icvK 'Y:rvari a*, ^■.'i-lt U.^/ o?u. 'e.r- 

bU .Qi;>*r. ^ this vii; fi^>:!i'? Fvriui-tition* fe^c^»^^i^*f 

. -.f amtui- aiv.-.-uv«:;';? ^n(»t iv on -iurit^^. '4-.fint? ^- 

fieM :-'r l-.v.,-,^ 5*r=od .'.'r. goi::# goir.^ *hr-^y^r. ^ 

I tt.Sr^H t;u:'/'v« got fts ^-^ftriy riot -area or nn,/t.e 

Vi-iM-v ^'.'H th^y wAr.'*-i. Vu^ ths-y vere sail getting datn or. ir,. 
•i-uvpi " ;^n* othe:' thin^, I ,?us*. hcfird a little excrmn»:« 

^„..I.e.r* i> 'ne I'Hveen yau ftni Ton Staffori. H« vaa saying «ane- 
= ...;ui ;^vl:i.g fr.« and I iMnH .11 of tn.t. couhi 

■/■■*IprB " Okay, i gue.fs 1 - Ton ha4 .^ast goR* ■inrougn 

V,, ^al a^^^y-e^ thci x-ra^ pas?' ahead of Une. _so he^ha^i BOir^e extra 

^.^r;v r.-;::i : v*'v.. get orie guy ioLn^ it, on each of the n.xl three av^ • 
H r.' «e- lr.^ oicn^. Ar.'i I gueas Tots h»4 gotten into it eara«r be- 

"■\,^^^. 'T.gKt'"'h-"vould gcT ahead arid proceed and ^jet U ^oR^. I^ut 
;n,^t..; -.^ had .cee d^t* r^v^\ter.^v.t^ on Durjape resoritfr tnat 
^'..'v,» rint .•:rri...ftr4 vrilih alac to require - record his heart j.Rtas. 
V.;i vKvn I t>li hin - he vas slUlrtg there all reaiy to go ani exercise 

*.-,fi Mr v>, ve weren't ready for that and he ww going to have 
t'.' iM.v a Uttl* vhUe. Well, he Ju«t 9»14 that he vas ready i'> do 
a../-hitw that ve as^X Inciuiing svlng through the treea UXe a - i xe 
^;;;;„.. r;,. ;,r.i,.-*hir;g. I guesK he vas feeling vsry athletic ut that 
j:>,rMo.aar y-nr\\ arid in a goo;i hunor too. 

w,r.ft't iS^^n ul^tld ^Vnd UaH it true y«.u »F**rM 

.hi. .-.^vision out th« .I4« v.n.W. „pj^n>4<tity vhe». 

V. bai p-^s.Hg. i^'^.^fl S all Ik. UghUng conditions 

.... ....tun, for u.. bu . ,,,, , I ,.t-i ..rUer that 

tv::vu-^ VeVor.? th»it . And they ..a.i «l.4 i/ ^^.^^ ...^ 

■question abc'ut tha^ . _ ^.^^ gent,i.«?:f« iows't 

.... .,.rblt>^l »>iui*, coRUd^uentiy J*:«> -^^.^ ,i.ev got * - 

jli:,, OF TAIL'S 

Tia«; vnn cm, mm m 

■MmH - -bring u biicK arul iV«i>, Ar.d ^ tiilnk 

tH« -ihlv '.rioa or «cUviU.« they didn't think ihn «Hov« it in 

U..y- I vith ov*nl.g th. refi.otor* f.. the -P*''^ J-^^^i^''' 

V.v .vJ • . vrtu kraw. In the 4«^sewt v»thiel<s with th» mi^^h 

vhlcV. no,«*Uy tho orMtai ao4uU and th. ^ when v« i . 
dock, elo.e.i. A..i th.y pr.b.bly, «ft«r ..ndocK ng. do ft pr«3su « cheU 
tne orbUax ^wdule t«fore they go i.t*ek in th«re. It ^ reiUy 

.-jy^.c-/ Yftu aowA pretty e«tm about »t i^vrf - - 

'iaM-r!^"i having gotve into it. W'^re you aVway^i in that 
let; „f : ^.i ve.ter4^ vn«n you ai..ov.r«a th*t Apollo wasn't going to 
:L.Cn t.^v^ion .^i. l n..r4 .Igl^t there were «o«. 

toX not avar. that iher. va. a^.ybody angry ^out 
it va. an conducted in . very cUn mtter of ^^^^ f'^ 

-r^Lrn ^:iur.." :KS,r:.^^:iu;'r 

- """;^PY I urpre.i.te yo..' re i=ut conc<^rn« 'v^v , but the 

t;for. y... r::...4 thU out, y... .nev ... a p.riod when you 
vere Just a IHil*' '=inxiou;J about it. 

QJtypY Hot a v«'"^3-^' 

.ovlify u .nov, a ;;upU ?f Jtn. a.o. that ;f-i.ion^rro« the oya. 
of Ihe 4oUo V.8 planned a.^d it v..n«t a J^^f Tvou kLv 

r.i^sion control is ^joing to reaueat at the ia5t tdnute. l><. you 

"^^^"mIiS^ ^''''.e.. it vas. Fut it v«. one of their ca.era3 that 
va« v;:;:: on. that i.n't an out.ide counted camera J^hat no -aUy 

iooV.. at the thing when ^^'^ ^^^^'^'^l^'J^^ aUovnhen to use that 
but it is part cf the switohing eacainiasn that allovs .nen 

'"'^'"''"rAO ^ere are no futhcr questions? Ttiar^X you. 

OF -FA-Fir: 

Houston, Tenaa 

ii/Mon B. Johnson Spsue Center 
Hoxjston, texaa 
July seO. 1975 

tk-iuaid Puddy, ASTP Teaa 3 Flight Director 

Jojfph aeAtkina, ONC Officer 
Bill Mc«ri, FJCOM 

rharles Redioond, Pvbiio Affairs Officer 

Tim I 11( 21 cw, mkm am 

FAO aoo4 Siprnlnf, H«r« r«*4y for chtuigt of shift briefing 

with off-ftoing FUg^it Dir«otijr l>on i'U'ldy for Xdm To «y lw»4l«t» 
right l» BiU Moon, th» mcm officer^ FUght Director IXj" Pul<3iy and 
Joe die Ath&nd, OfcC sy«t«n«, Don. 

TODDY Okay. Uii m start off vith a eoupl» of things. 

First, as far «« our orbits *r« <?oneerRe4, the coagiMift*! »#rvlce utidule 
18 pr«3BtitJy in & 1^1 aft-i 1/? n«uticftl aile ctrcui*r om%, fh^ Bayut 
h*8 ^mi cywyletdd on« of th«ir tr#t Uurna of th»lr r«tr<j or entry eys- 
t«w, wid th«y presently hnvj « *pogee of 120,5 »ii4 » p«rigee of 
Ve may have ao»« comnunlcations %<>*Xe^ with the Soyussj H*8 strictly « 
(question cf vhether or not the Apollo crw activities m^i the Soyue crev 
Rctlvitlesi lire eotap»tible vhtlo ve're atUl within rmgn> Right now, 
wtf'r*? - Apollo's presently 165 allei? behind the ffoyun, antl this dlgtaflce 
is lncre»slng at about 30 naytic&l ailes per rev. As far as the Soyut 
burn to check out their retro fir© «y8t«», frots all report* we've received 
fro» the Mijscow Control Center, that partlovii»r BAneuver went -^ry well 
artd ihey are $ati8fle4. I thinX that pr^^baVly msi of you are aware 
that ve have finl8he4 yp the Joint activities on thiss particular mission 
ani both spacecraft are now involved autonowousj operations. As Or 
as our next few tiays flight plan, they center yrimrlly arou^id the SIM 
BAY experinients vhlch one of our experiment officers spoke to you briefly 
about yesterday. One being the extreme ultraviolet survey, where we're 
searching for EUV sources in the - in the 50 to 100 Angstroa wavelength 
region, D'jjring the next 3 days, we have approxiwately 8 passes for thij 
partif'uUr instrument; ao far this riornlng, we h&ve suecetjafuUy aceon- 
pllahed 'tt of those. Ve have one more this afternoon, 2 on Pay 7, ani 
.? an psy 8. Another one of the experiment a in the SIM PAY is iht> hellxKs 
givv, where .e'r*" trj'lng to aejisure the intensity n.r,i 4ir.trlbuticn of 
Uitfrplanetaty heiiu^r,. We have i passea of that particular exp^eri^nt 
m<i about, this tine we should be in the process of running our first 
run on that part.cular experitnent. As far as X*;h^', vhich la the thiri 
experitaent in the - in the BIM BAY, vhat ve're trying to lo there of 
course, at,- the naae pretty well spells out is to ^ Is to rw checks on 
the X-rav eissiisions from both the - in the Karth'a atoosphere and alio In 
the - In the celestial atisosphere. We huve 7 passes on that particular 
experitwnti one on Day 6, 3 on Day 7, and 3 en Day 8, We have not run 
K?iy of those particular experinenta at the - at the present titae. Al. 
though the X-ray experiment has l>een numing as a backup to the two 

passes that we ran this aorning. We also ar«? running T Earth Re- 
sources passes; so far we've aocoEpliahsd several of these today. The 
first one occurrt?d at 05 J2 this morning, and I'r giving you these t.*J5e3 
in Cefitral Daylight Tine - - 


So far, ve'v« »eco«pUsh«.1 aeverftl of these today, 
rnt first one oocurrei at 5:3^ aorrUn^j - m>i I'» gSvi«g you th«»9 
Kim^ in central delight tlB« - over ^/'f f^' ihf ^«tnat 

,t the Ouln«ft ^^urreat, the 4eaen colors north of L*Ke f f 

•4 in Libya, the Htle D«lta in Egyp^i w»4 Uvantice Blft in 
^-urkev Oiir n<fxt t>4»a va« prlaiArtiy conc«»!'n«a with Antwotlcft ftna 
so-uthirn South tearic*. vhare we vere looking «t the iceberg*. *n<l on-, 
ther sight, thdt you prob&toly r^mttibtr from our Skylab operations, *n'J 

• hat 'a the FaiKland Current off th« east w&st of ArK«tvtin«. W« next 
na38 vas taso one concerned with Africa and Europe. It waa ve*t of 

♦ he first p*!»8 that we rwi today. We looksi at thfe Kifer Piwr and 
VaiUy. the Algerian Pc5«rt, m4 Trlf-^U, as our specific tftr«et8. 
l^luiy foflcwins that p^tical^ pa., ve ^J^f ^^^^J r 
in th« w«ath«rin« telt, north of South A».irica. An4 then the - look«4 

th« Straits of Hhmlxfkr wii the Alps. W« hs/e pother pws tQj«y, 
-.vering northern South Ajserie*. Another one severing the *>JHth«»' 
bHit vhero veVe losKing at the upvellUt^fi ftn4 vav«a yff th«? cowst 
rf HHvail. And also the sKvuntftins end glacier conditions in an4 arouiii 
rhe Beattle *rea. An-i th« \mt p«as of the ^tiy »tart« out in Australia 
....d rnv«fl ap Into the vesthfir belt, vher" ve're looking «it a li«« - 
r:.rthveat of Melbourne, Australia, the Coral S«a - off th« nortn coast 
'.^^ Af-ica, mvi nUo the oloua features in th<? wt-ather l-elt. Mc*t Qf 

otner aeUvitles center arouncl a continuation of of the oth^r 

exp*»rlaent6 that W0»rc carrying onboard; ery^t&l growth, the wne- 
'^mln« fungi."* continuation of our fish ob3«rvat Ions , continuation ai 
::.r «c.faUur«ieal .siting proc«.«e8 using the mulU,purj.03. ^'^^^ 

Kre crmcernei, ve'r* a little bit h.^iov vher.; w^ ^'^P^^^^^^^,^^' 
far «ia RCS, ftJ a result of sfttMrdhy'a test docking acvlvuics 
♦aXing a littl^^ Rore RCU coneumblea than we anticipated, ar.d als^. 
the ultraviolet expftrlfsent. We are certainly stiU, however, .n ar. 
excel e^t i^.t.u«e lo be able to continue all of the pla»-.nei expen.r.-n 
«MvU?es that «e have lined out throu^.h the rest of the mission. AU 
of ; he other cons-o^ables are in real gooa .hape, A« far a. any pr.>bles3 
'hat v*.'ve had - as I mentioned a minute ago, we lid run the x-ray 
.xc^^riment, along with the iT-JV experiment, on the first 2 pa«3es today. 
And luring that particular point in time, we noticed some hgh count 
read ng9 which are indicative of some contamination in the instruwnt, 
We're' not .ure whether or not this is a resvUt gf sc«ie soit of cental- 
inatton in the gas that U used in tho chamber of ^^J^^^ ' . 

•.^nat - basically what happens is. the x-r«y .ourees ^^^^^^f^' 
ionise the gas - cause that to be collected, and that s fed Into a 
detector. We can contaninate the gas. And aa a result, we wouldn t 
;li accti^ate readings. Or, there is a possibility that we're operating 

too low a temperature on that particular instrument. And this is a 
problem that they ran into when they were doing soce of the ground 

km* imh) K*ife-B/£ 

testirm. Oiir corrective actions on th«t p«rU<?ulAjr probUa, to far, 
h4V9 he^n to go aheftd anJ pwg*f that gM, that pr*««otly U in th« 

mt> or 

t vae: U B .wnd Alii purg* t,hat i« 

.hfit » iLary coolant iOs-^p. ^^^'^'r^ir evftP'^rftior, vhtch 

which areuUV'^a '^'^ fiZ And lc<>K«!j ^' .^/Vad froten aJ^-i 

,h.,.,fort' vouVd '''•<?V \ r.ot thrown or ^ .^r, tn the 

.rJ-tly whether ^> ^^vitcn J*;^ activity ^^Hit ^^uire U.e '^r^^^'^f^ 

.,,,^.,,r«ft ri^nt nov ,,riou8 fnat "^^^ 11 itprcper position, Vut 

y.' tbiM - Ji,,, «vAy TVcffl this in the 

.^yater. w»« L vnat , v« have go 

^'12.'^^^- ^^^^^ to..eaUon.. 

QUF^Y ^^^^ 

-.^H/t 'V^-^ X.- en. thai', in involved - ^-'""'^^^ 

'5h« one that r.Xc'a supsP^sed 

■^.yv'Ht Q^,H<e. exactly 

or- to ICO. up for you. I^ruco _ _ ^ ^^^^ 

'^"'!..U<^nUr ;4^e ls in tber. nS^A "^-^ .ere for you. 
. Should I asX you now or val - 

looking uv^ , ahead. 

pAt® : 7/ 20/ 75 

^^iUEFY 01s*y. I v&a vtinleririg - in his book, Bust A14rin 

se*mH to f*-«i that the aatronnuttt ver«n't pr«pftr«4 for th« p»ri*i »f^er 
flight. hwU i «ue8s this i» kind of an appropriate d»y %o U but - 
h%ve wiy ehwigea been aa<le in the vay »8tron»kU»9 prepwetl tor fUfthl 
wa for the f^riO'l foUoving th« flight vheo tner«'a aort of « l!< 
th«ir activity? 

RiPDV In the way they prepare* for a flight? 

qmm AVdrin, ta you know h&4 that pro1» - - sooe troubles 

vh«n he c«w^ b&cK to garth. Ho f»U that - there vas nothing you cmh% 
1o after you hai gone to the Moon ar.A 1 v«« vondering - - 

^Umi ^ Aidfin, m you Know, ha-i th«kt yeoh •. sciae trout*- 

uiKjii he CMS© back tu fikrih. He ftflt thai U • th«re vas nothi'ig 
you c!3ui4 do ttfter ha^i gvr.6 to th<; a-?>r,. And I w«d vund^rini? if 
<>tht>r ftint-oaayia had aieit Ur fewUng* aiii I f jwv pr«sp»r*%iona imA l>»«n 
3i*d« in trainifiU to help orevs out vtth - ^Hh ih^ poai flight p«rio<l» 

i'W^oy I thlf^ - let Be * let a« anever that qutetiwi 

in a couple of vays. As far the pr«p&rfttiona that, we go through h«r« 
pn the ground - aa f*r as brJr jlnis the crew up to h proficiency, these 
have not chari«e4 «t all. In oth»r wQr4a, a grc-up of p«opl«s both the 
grow'.d c-^ntrollers and th«t fUght crev^ voi-X «)(td«8lvely pr^wisaion to 
'ieveiojf thfe iioc©9ij&ry p{-oce4us-&si that sre neewssary to fly th« spae*- 
cr*ft Afi'l in order to m«t the d-jfined prcgr&a Q'bje«tiw8. Tl'i^siif art* 
accoBpiUhefi Vyth fts far ffhearsal accciaplish th^ae - thifge f^re 
•lc;.«j both through the standpoint of sieulstions by - «oIo, by the crt-v 
whert» thtjy go over and g«t into tne aiitaiatora and fly thoae various 
profiles, wsd 3ub8e.iu«ntly by Iritegrated sltiui&tiona where the flight 
orew mi the flight ';ontroit«*rs ^'oin together ana work out the ground 
flight crftv interfac-ea. I rhir-k tr^f only thing that ha» he<:-r\ ^-ujique 
about thi» particular aission Is that in td-;Utiofs to that n.'..-.inal prepa^ 
ration vher« you gain proficienvy cn a.3?.3Rpll»hlr»g thu mieiaivn ob.tectivwg 
■•^nd operating the spacecraft , th*- /rev is also Hc^i with a very If 
tft'naive Unguaicri training p*rio:.i, far as the letdown, if that's 
vrf;H.t you're itsplying, aftyr a aiasion, I do not believe that , I would t>e 
th«* proper individual to anaver that tV'-«3tion and I thlrA that would 
bt' v-^'i-tainly something tnat you ought to refer to the crev members . 
Mo!it of the» Tai aeaociated vith are Just loolsing forward to getting 
into space again. 

QUKBY It would ajipt^ar fr.>s the Buasian briefing - it's 

Just come out - that the teat redocKlrig yesterday was? rather harder than 
they expei.>tt.'d and that at toac period subsetluent to this they did 
r-[>orv - appear to observe h temporary drop in pressure - I thiryt of 
--i't'oui >0 mi lliRoters . Have ycu any vord cu this at all 

y-^iil^ I have heard that they felt like that the - the 

•,f3t jDciiing, if that's the one you're referring to, vaa at an increaaei 
vi?locity -iver the initial doaking and I think that is certainly - cer- 
tainly trutf. Hovever, I don't thiriH it was beyond the limitu nf , of 
thv sysUns as designed. As far aa the - as the pressure drop that 
yen 're referring to, I have absolutely no inforfflation that tt.ey had 
U'aka^e onboard either spacecraft. Ve can give you a little core 
Ititalled infoiiaation if you're interested as far as the set^u^jnce of 
«-v^;ntK that occurred during that test docking If that vould help you 
any. Or ve can give that do after vhia particular briefing is over, 
ii? you vould like to have that 1 nforriation. We are looking into and 
reviewirtg all of the data associated of course with all of the dockings. 
And there will be a fomal exchange of all that information with the 
Russians beca-ose you're - you're talking about one of the priniary 
cbjiectivea of the miaaion, 

PAO David Saliaburry. 

AS%f (USA) fCkh*p/S 

Time: Uii6 I2ktl(> OET 

qUKHi Don, after Uatening to Dr. £1-S*z yyaiwrdie^y, one 

iot the iffi^jreaalon that the astfonfeuts will l'« ap«Ej4in^ «n «xtr«wiy Ht'$v 
«»otmt of their ti8» looking out Ui* wind'^v fit t8a*lou» Earth r-'jaourcws - 
un various Earth resources ol)«»rvationsi . And, Pa. luricma nfco'j* Just 
hov auch tlM« the erev is ^ing to fc* »^>ending on E*rth resQurwss observ*" 

rUDDV i do not know 1K9 exact siyaWr of huwr* of tieto 

that they are spending doliig that. Mke I say, v« hav* 7 Earth Hcsourees 
i'ft?ec»3 loiay an<S 1 thinX the - that* a »or« or leas the swae tyj-.e of trend 
that w« t'UhmsiJ *3 fol - to foUov for the m%% ecupU of days > Hoirevifr, 
»-h« Earth Resources passes aiiJl the othfcr experietent ^iperatlMs s^re 5r 
l»r;>3 hav>* 'ilfferent time - - 

?ND or TAPK 

iVppi * - the Keirih Resouree-a p&ssea, iw>4 the oth«r ©jcpwr- 

VRi«fit. t>iwrfttiofi3 »ore or lea* h*vo differentf Mm fr*ri«a vhere they're 
r«f^iilr;n1. B» th* two - ftr« cuapatlblM a» f«r ,«ks flight vl«»'-«iB« is 
r?nc«rrwd. Ift other vxar-ds, ve'r« not Jioin« Karth Heswre^s at the itxclu- 
j^ion of. is<,i*s«ihtiig eltttf. Ttier*'* a - thttr* Is a gojd fixture, I thlrsk of 
vr.f} vferi<ju3 tUsttlpUn^f that v«'re trying to actH^aplUhi ve're Uolstng 
jMSt iiK« we hiive In th« 'j!*«t »t the Wfc Sciences &sj>tei* of this alaslon; 
ws^'re IcKi'King at the E4rth Resources i we're Xooltlng at sMst&l» or jiiAteri*l5« 
|jroet?s9»ng In 3pao«i m'\ we're Vookijig at soi»r a^tronoflsy. I'm not sure 
I sirtswer«!''l yoyf (Question frosR th* vay you 1'>3H. 

qiJIIBY' Ho. I gu*S8 - I iJi'Ln't m«ar; te l«ply th»t - that 

i)ier« vat! » b«4 ©is or aottethinf. 1 vaa Just eurk.«d ''awt hov nueh 
tl!B« It V'vuid tiik« to get aU. th* obavrvftt ion* that El &l« «nyi8er*te'.i » 

pUDuV Veil, the j:^asaea - ih*; fas8«3 vary in lenijth. Vrwy 

cm - U'b depen-ient on the wea, U's aiaa -iependftnt on th« veather. 
Thero are cigrtBinly r« placement activitie:*, you itntv, 'i^cre'» a er*fv 
exercise v^rloci that can be sul'etitute4. Tnere's a lot of tiffins that 
the/ vili start uut on - on an Earth Hesourct'a faas, vhlch .aiwy I'e, cifs 
say', a rAxi8i'ii6 of 15 to IT ainutea, in Avtratioft, An4 if ve'vw inaii-Rt<f(S 
t^' thes that th* veather'« had or thfiy'ye i'lcked {t -jp for thfifsseivtfe 
that the veather iooAS t^ad a-loiig tht- pass, they'H i/.o wJitsai ar^d taXe 
?are cf ;icir,»f ether activity, itfiiai».» e;iom« rs-iii, .Iv thitijga of this nature, 
fe!.'! get r^tt'iy f*:tr a i5Ubaefiai?nl aetivlty. T-'i^r*? has Let m say that 
^tiere nt'V.rr been a cr<jvinan that hf.s. ba-,'"*;, vfia hasn't 8ai4 

that he wished he had aore tlae to sp^nfl i coking cut the vi$;4ov. And 
f thiixK i f any of , us ever, got Into the p.-isiure whcr^' «.t! ha4 thai capa- 
bility, ve certainly voul4 feel tht? itti-.'e way. 

FAO FrafVit, Jovn here in tV.« I'rv*.'. . 

iiUKBY Coul'J I as* two qu«':^tlonis . '»">•. at •« your pan'.cular 

iruerefjt in Tripoli T An-i will either ■•^rev dcr i.nythlr.< U4ay to 
,:-_'Tr_'!>*?*C'r*vt *? th? Ho'-t^ li'tfidi nfff 

i'Ur-i.'V I voui.i havtf tci- .-crtT t>'« lnier*$t 

jti rrlpoii t.'.' the PI to let hj& ansvt-r tJsat -luest ion for you- Aa far 

'ioirsg afjythlng onboard the spacecraft /f. cally, ec>B«n«norftie 

A}:,Tli::> U, to the beet of ay krk)vi«d^e, r.'^, thertr is .-»--Hhin^ planned. 

QUKRV Wa» that ever ccri3U«r<ni ana rejected for any 

reason - 

PUDDY Kc, that. V as not - - 

QIEHY - - aeea- appropriate? , 

pijr-r^v jJo it va;3 not eonsidereil, An-J it vas net rejected, 

r'AO Bruce. 

QUtRY Pou, Wv'Uid, you give ffie the figures on the twees 

between the oraft and ihelr - kind of their location, I guess? ^'hat 
vaa it, 30 nautical ailea per rev? 

PUDDY We're clodtng at a - I aean - Excuse ae. (Chuckle) 

U-t fse gev that turned in the other direction. We're Beparating at » : 
right new at 30 nautical nllfa per rev. And thft^ figure's not one 

mom'''' '''^'^ 

» «on»t«/»t, Bruce, 
iim goes on. And iJ 8 . f^^. , , 

4«i right nnv i»«>-r. - "43 

riTlDY /. needs to 



Time: CDC, V.>U:?.6 GET 


PUDDY - is lased on accomplishing all of the mission 

activities, including every one of the planned experiment*. Ar.d ve're 
still some U57 pounds above the service module RCS redllne whvch Is, 
of course, our backup reentry redline that ve tiy to protect. Is 
that the type of thing you wanted? Do you remenber the exact 

'^^^SPEAKER Don, ve've got the - We've got the program director's 

rep<.rt. Those fipires are all included. We've got it over across tne street. 

PUPD7 Okay. , 

SPEAKER Okay, It's a little over l.OOC-, right now in the 

SPEAKER Yeah, 10 66, I think. , , 

?wm Veah. I think - that's what I v&a thinking - it vas 

around i,068 pounds usable, 
FAO David. 

Qi'JERY Why belcw 2kl, Don'f Where 'd it go? What - - 

PUDDY As 1 wentlorifjd earlier - there vere 2 things. Up 

•i-iUl the Dolnl of the teat docking and the acconpllshiaent of the UVA 
exTerisent; ve vere pretty veil folioving the noainal J" J^^^ 

'■M «CS. &oth cf those took us a, little r.ofe RCc= thsii anticipated, 
"rhetest docking oost us ^ extr% 2^0 po^rA. - excuse ^^^^^^ . 

■ ' ext-a 160 oounds. We used a total of 220 pounds cb that , and we had 
^udget^i arcu^id 60 pounds. And the ultraviolet experi^jnt cost us^ 

and we had budgeted about 333. ^ov let m eay that, on 'f^^^ 
^xreriaent. those fig^ores have - i=ov rsuch we aliowea for a bu-iget tnere 
hS - JIa bounced .cLiderabiy, cause th.fs a very diff.ctdt «^^^er -er.t 
•o '•iv &nd it doesn't take very much :if a chwge to allow sotae fairly 
Intlr^te - or ufdqu. - changes to th. at-' tude contr-:.!. And of course, 
-vnco y.-:i :--tart doiwc Vfiat, yau stftrt using aort- RCS prop«alant. 
p;,.-. Frank. All th.<' waj' --"V^r here. 

C-.fF.r.v H.^w far dist-ont will Acoilo aril ooyuz be froa each 

tioe of 03VU2 deorbit --.norrcv EX^rnLngt And why are we 
layin? that. ?oyuz is puVlir,g s^^' fr.s ApcMc, if it were - was ApoUo 
'hat fired the separatioii birn! _ 

PVfliDY It's fcs cause the - the ::oyui is m *^iower orifit 

*han VP are. Ar,d a result, their orUt^l velocity, J^iJ''^'^' .f 
grLter. And ^ far as ^h. ..act dlst*..c., I ,^on't har. -^^h »e the 

r«^'^ '-.f buildup. An.i thet'f what '.5 i;oir.g tc aeteraine thw. 
dUtanc^r And ve also hav. only ) o?r'=-t^ny to ^^^-/^f ^^^jf^^' 
r^.tton a. far as Just exactly at th^ rffect of the.r t>ur,. ^ 

'hat burn <u3t occurred & couple of r^c-^ra ago. Po 'd nefitate t ■ 
vou ea. a.::curate figure at this r^f-i-'-^^r poin- In tioi^. 
F,V,;) In the back, :rartf;. 

AS7P (USA) PCljJ4-F/2 


Stafford wa3 complaining Mmt'tJrM "ir^"' "^^'^^^ feeling? Tom 
they keeping up with it? Are '',^3^^^ a little ti|ht. Are 

PUDDY I think !»\ ^ vearing on them, or thnn 

entire nission vas ver^' J^,;!/!:^;'' r'^? ^^^^^^ -t^ ^hlt the 
activities - you all h^ve th^t V'^' ^ J°'"t 

uo .ept the crev", ^ t'/t^ Hhe^^-'S^^ ^ '^^^ 

As .ar as tne autonomous activltleq ^ "'^ 'admirable Job 

time to wake up this mrnlng befon' KlT?"""'^' ''''^ J^^^ barely hai 
resources pass. And it has\eej ^MS, T^"^*"' ^ ''^^'^ 
i.arth resources pass or one of SIM ^ ^^^i^^ty - either an-.h^r 

that point. I think - ai.d ve'vrhJ I since 
- Of the x-ray experiment! vhe;: Se vere Sro' '^""'.'^^ '^^"S ^^^^ that 
If you ve had a., opportunity to Ck at ^^f'^.^^ ^ voice calls, 
that I ^,ear. the detailed sequenc-^Jf tiT! °^ ' 
particular star or target th^'Je' ""^ maneuver versus vhat 


AST? (USA) PClt!i-G/l 

Time: 11:51 CDT, 12U:n GET 

Date : T/20/75 


«sver your ,ue3tlo„ apecifi.aXlj-, I think the cre» ifdoi^f^J vel? 
t .,ve - they.r, certainly not oo.pU£„i„, about thf^Liri,:""' 
in the front. 

^'^'^ ''^s can get those figures - 

In the front, Frank, 

PUDD'/ i-ja sure - pretty t-urrthat's c-orrect. 

In the front, Fr 

P'-^'^'^^'^ That is correct. 


QUEBV ^"l'''^^; standpoint of supplies, hov long could 

^.:o^.o on. HOW .^y .ays co^^ A^Uo' 

P a^rc-d Thft ^ nT - r^ctlvities that LvS 

^tS"^rf'.i^ ''^^"^ couldn't stretcn it out longer Ifve 

t Z t "^""S 3ome of the activities, but I think v^^I tlivL. 

^ ^'^^"S the absolute maxin-!^. '^^'''"^ 
l^*?'.. Hight there. Frank. 

5 concur vith that BiU? 

M0o?( Yes. 

aclu. = "do-kiiL ^^^/P^^l^' spacecrafl that ^erfonr-ed both of the 
™ J ' 'P^*"" ^'"'^ different ^pect.B of tl^c " 

^ug r,.chmi,.s vere activated, i vas vender vhy vL th.t? You 

c^niiv n thlTr ■ «^ P^rfcrt-i:;, a - havin« . rescue 

'u -^J ^n t^' d i ';: r^.""' ^""'^^ spacecraft, do the active 

PWnv different points in the flight. 

the rr-ZuLr-r^ / ^^^^rial which spacecraft actually dia 

h.ivefo/;jlt;^ to checK out both 

r'^' 't [ *^f/^" the active syne. 

■ n io3t .ocK.n^,, the Soyaz pide was active. And aiao, 


Time: U:?! Cl/r, 12lj:31 GET 

Date: 7/20/75 

you were suppose to have the capability of being able to undock 
regardless of who was active vhen you docked. And that vas the check 
that vas trying to be performed. In addition to that I think - I think 
the command module had the excess propellant and that vas certainly a 
consideration. We had more consunables. ' 

■V ^^"f^^ . Okaj-. I understand. Was there also a safety con- 

siueraticn in that? Was there any fears that the Russians might - you 
Knov perform bad maneuver because - - 
PUDDY N-o . 

QUERY - _ Senator Proxayer and others - - 

PUDDY No. .No. 

QUERY Okay. 

PAO On the end, Frank. 

QUEPY We vere told yesterday that the distance that 

separating the tuo spacecraft at the Soyuz deorbit vould be apf roximately 
.-00 rdles. This vas at the change of shift briefing yesterday. You say 
nov there's I65 miles betveen them and they're picking uo 30 at each 
revolution. Does the 200 figure r.ov seem rather lev and* the second 
point is does this rule out any possibility v^.sual observation of the 
fcoyuz aeorbit by the astronauts? 

FUDDY Well, as is true vith a lot of change of shift 

ori-finfis, each one is dependent on the information available at the tine 
.na when you had your last briefing which I guess vas what? Pete 'a? 

^AO Yestei-da;,' afternoon. 

, Yesterday afternoon. They had not made their maneuve-. 

ir I remember correctly vhen I came on this evening there vas a sep^Jation 
distance of aonething like 65 nautical nlles - - separation 



Time : 11:56 CDT, 12l4:36 GET 


^ PUDDY - -maneoiver. If I remember correctly, vhen I came 

cn this evening there vas u s.^paration distance of something like 85 
nautical miles and we vert- oeparating at a rate of 10 nautical miles 

^."'^ ^^^^ P^^^ figure that you vere tallcing 

about. And when Pete checked it. I 'm sure it was - it was inore in tht 

ZZf t ' "f- ' 1^ ?f ^""^ increasing the separation distance at 

r^r.J .1!^^^ '"^^^t '^^ difference - one of the primary - 

'h!^ ff^ "^""'"'^ addition Of this retrograde maneS^er 

.hat the Soyuz perforned this morning; and also of course, we didr.'t have 
a real good feel for Just exactly how this would propagat^ with timP 
When he gave you that briefing, we did not have sufflcfent tracklnrdata 

was going to be over a period of - over a period of time 

QUER/ Would you figure then, I realize you don't have the 

'"uL' ordeo'rbuj' ^ approximate figure for the separation 

w«, /J^^^ ■ . "^^^ ^.eparation distance? No, I think that question 
was asKed a minute^ ego and I'm afraid that would mean that my counterpart 
tnat ca;r.e here next time would be asked the s«ne question I was askeJ^ 

L; f'trf ^^'^ ^^""^ ^ revs of tracking data to 

g^t a better feel for Just exactly how the rate of separation of the two 

A..d we cer.aiao' by tomorrow ought to be able to give you - early toaor- 

IZ^'^IT^' °"'^^f '° ^ 'Sood feel for exactly 

what that separation distance Is going to Le and I'll make sure tha* 
infom..aon is nrovided to you. Possibly we can have it for you this 
afternoon, if ./.afs - be a better timing for it. 

Okny. Thank you, gentleiaen. 


Houston, Texas 

A5TP Science Briefing 
July 19, 1975 
3:00 p.m. COT 


Dr. Thonas Giuli , AST? Scientist 

Dr. FarouX El Baz, Earth Observations 4 Happing 

Dr. Frledrick Vonbiin, Geodynaaics 

Dr. Robert Snyder, Multipurpose Furnace i Electrophoresis 
Dr. Thomas Donahue, Ultraviolet Absorption 
Dr. Robert Hudson, Ultraviolet Absorption 
David Garrett, Public Affairs Officer 

Time: 15:00 CDT 

PAO Good afternoon. We're ready to begin our science 

scraping. To immediate right is Dr. Tom Guili , the AS1T scientist 
arui he. vill in tiurn introduct the other principal investigators vho 
will participate in the briefing. Dr. Giuli. • 

aiULI Thank you Dave. Today i 6 a niiestone in the ASTP 

mission in that we have nov concluded the ^oint cperati^.m phase of the 
mission ar.d are entering into what we call the solo phase. Dui*ing the 
entire part of the mission we have been and will be conducting experi- 
ments. And so we thought we would take this opportunity to suamarize for 
you what ve have accomplished so far during the joint phase in the ex- 
periment program and then ve will be coming back at a later date to 
summarize for you the acconplishments of our sole phase experlBCnts 
progran. Before we go into the status reports since laaiiy of you are 
not aware of the scope of our science prcgrar:, I thought I would give 
you a brief review of the total experiments package then go into the 
atfitua report and then introduce to you soiae of our scientific in'^sti- 
gators who have individual experiments onboard the AST? nsissicn. On 
board the nission we have 28 experiments. They are broken down into 
three categories; the space sciences, the life sciences and the appli- 
cations. Further breaking down into the space science area, ve have 
aetronoay experitnents . Three of those lock outward into the galaxy to 
investigate phencraena there. One of them looks inward in our solar 
systera to the Sun to investigate solar phenomena. And one of them 
is an instrument development effort which will hAve future application 
for gamma ray astronomy. In the Earth environraent part of space scienccF, 
we have two experiments which are investigating the Earth's atacsphere. 
One experipient which looks downward and does observations of the giu-face 
of the Earth from the position of the spacecraft and ve h^^re two experi- 
ments which are investigating the interior struotu-e near the surface 
of the Earth. This structixre being the mass str-acture, the mass anomii- 
lies in the Earth. In the life sciences area, ve have three « jqperimentH , 
which toK^ther arc investigatiria; the affectB of coseic ray particle 
interaction with live cells, that is emphasizing the heavier bj-A the 
more energollc coanic ray particles and their affects upon livL-g cells. 
One of those experiments in'*3tfgates the interAe^ion wit?, the hm4n 
cells, nftj.ely the i-etina cells in the eye, and that vill incorj crate 
observations by the astronauts. One of the experiaents i nv« stigatos 
the interaction of particles with doitaant live cells, which vill then 
be grown in the laboratoi*}' and studied for Eiutation affects. A.-A the 
thira C'xperinont is one which investigates the particle interactions 
with cells vhich are alive and growing in the spacecraft in petri 
dishes. We have three experiments vhich are the h'^an 
InatAine system. Tliat is irjcunily to infection by aicrobes of various 
kinds and together they really comprise a single, coordinated effort 
which - the significance of which is that sanples are taken froa inside 
the tVQ i;j;nceeraft a.-.d froff, various locations on all five crev cenbers 
of tlie mission and returned to the on base laboratories for analysis. 
Also blood ;!arr>pit?!fi are a.iftlyr,e.'i, so that they in%'estigat<? both the microbes 
M\'i the imune ttystea-: directly, nni ability to resist infoclion by 

Time: 15:00 CDT 

tho microbes. In the applications area, again ve have tvo sections. 
.Ve have two experiments vhich emphasize the me .3 ical applications to 
electrophoresis experiment 3 which you will hear more about shortly 
Ani the other applications category is material processing. There we 
have nine experioena, eight of them are associated with high temperature 
processing of materials in a special electric furnace, which is on 
board the spacecraft. And the remaining experiment investigates materials 
processing in the lew temperature or exnbient temperature method by 
allowing the reactant materials to defuse toward each other thro-jj!rh 
pure yater. Now the status of the experimentation so far on the mis- 
sion is that we have completed the solar eclipse experiment MA_iU6 We 
have completed almost all of the ultraviolet absorption experirsent" 

^''''^ completed almost all of the zone forming fungi experi- 
ment MA-li»7. have completed the microbial exchange experiment AR-002 

J'^l^.i^'^'t'-'^^^ - of the electrophoresis experi- 

nents MA-OU* . By tne way the titles and numbers of these experiments 
can be louna referenced to and described in a document which Is available 
to you through our Public Affairs Office. It's called "AST? Experiment-, 
nummary , and you will also nnd these experiments described i^. the 
Anerican press kit. The experiments which have been in operation dur- 
ing the Joint phase and will continue operation in the solar pha^e are 
"f i-f i?"! experinent MA-I36. the geodynaxaics experiment 

t / \. r!^n ] ''^ ^^^^^^^nt MA-I6I and the electric furnace experl- 
^r,t3 MA-OxO and several of the experiments associated vith that furnace 
New ve nave here today as I said, five of the scientific investigators ' 
who have experiments onboard the spacecraft. And so I will introduce to 
you .irst of all Dr. Ton Donahue of the University of .Michigan, who will 
explain to you the relation of his experiment, which is the ultra-^o>t 
absorption experiment MA-059, vhich has been mostly cotnplet^d and is ' 
btnng finished ap at this very moment. Dr. t'on&hu''. 

DR. DONAHUE Thanh you Tcni. Now although - and I thirJ'. protx-rly - 
the impression is fairly videspreed that the rurpose of the Api^lio' l^mar 
shots and the purpose of this shot is other th<in - is rot rr,)-; 
and in fact, is prir.arily perhaps scr.<-thlng else, there is a 5 1 
15 certainly not a correct Impressic-n to characterize the ArMIo pro^ran 
tor the Moon or this one as a nonscier.t 1 fic mission. l-hen>''r. l^fs of 
goo.) science on this - on this misiVion ai. there wa£5 on th^ Ay-^-llr. lunar 
>n the Apolio lunar prcgraa. Ar.i of course it is, as Ton ,'.jst pointed 
out, our purpose is to let you know vhat is going on in th-^ vav of 
good science en ihia mission. Let me first of all point r.,:t l' hav^ 
colii^s^-aes in this experinent. My co-principal investigator i.-t fror. 
vhe Johnson iipace Center, Dr. Robert Hudson. I have colira*;"^",'* from 
the University of Michigan, Dr. Anderson; from the University '^-^ Pitts- 
burg Dr. Kaulfman, and the red-headed fellow you might have' seen on 
the firing Une during the last week from Harvard, Mike KcKiory. And in 
fact we've recruited two people from the Soviet Union, Dr. Ku-t and 
Dr. T^tcmin. My friend, NA?A tell that cur exp«rirt*>nt w^,.' the 
most .iifiicuU one they fvor attonpted to cany out in the hictory of 

AST? (USA) ?Ch2.\/3 
Tir<e: 15:00 CDT 

the M^ed Space yrogreu.. And our experience a fev 
Jadicates thlt they might ce right, but fortunately ^'^^^^f^^^^^P ^^J^^ 
a successful data run. The p^orpose of the exper ment is to ^eterm ne 
hov m.h oxygen, atoaic oxygen ,»nd hcv much atomic n trogen there is 
fit altitude where the spacecraft are flying. This is done by a 
ir- -;ir.i classical vay It 's been done in the I-^-atory^for a long 
time. You send light ffoa the Apollo that ha« a spe"^/''^'^^. 
■ vave length in the ultraviolet, part of the spectrum that is 
h^tSd only by oxygen in the case of one vave length, only by nitrogen 
n ?S afe of ?hrofher. Let it go over to the Apollo and the Soyuz, 
iou^'; off of a special rairror on the Soyuz ar.d come bacX to the Apollo 
a^rtL> ntensity be measured there. You can tell how much ox:.6en or 

mch nitrogen there was cetveen the two spacecraft by the amount 
'he i St Cas absorbed or diminished in its trip. And ve carried out 
.'ht. x.erinent at three different separations, 150 aetera . 500 inters 
;^d'vO0 Sers. And ve Just finished the 1000 meter data take while 
the two spacecraft were parting froa each other a few nunutes ago. rhe 
'u-t.'.e of the experiment w&5 in the case of oxygen, which is the most 
a^^'"^ir,t constituent at that part of the atiKsphere was to verify by 
hp'^her-; ■ur.used r^thod in space the aeasurenents that had been made by 
spectrometers aboard satellites ar.d sc-^niinB rockets for years and 
and years and years, but still regains .«r.evhat In doubt That is 

itT '^^Atio- *-ohn^que haa not been used before because ve haven't 
tni^ fir-'SOrptiu.. v-iL-ui-^ ^tr ^,.v,? t i<Vp this 

ha-J Ih. opportunity of utilUir^ wo «Pf "^J^; i^ea 

£ido by side in the pest. In the second case, ^^f'.^ /^^^"^'^S^''' ^^J^^^^tn 
II, '0 detect a apecies that's never been detected oefore - it's there in 
such1:nall qumitiUea. And we have to look .t the data more carefully 
^^ •■■'-nlny we've - we night have done both of these, it's not - cer- 
S;^iv*nor.I;.r vet. It's interesting th.t all of the United Btates 
^t;; : this;t are deeply into the problem of the affect 

^r^-- 3uVnl'r4. suc?ts chlorine or fre.n. and nitrogen ox idea on the ozone in the 
"^IrX And U. fa-, thafs net m accident because hi. 

.xc:.r..ent^wa.^^^.ei,ey^^.^^^ the .paee .nuttfe when it c^c available. 

,„ ■ Z^..,. possibilities that fitill exist and pmbably wixx be 
' • ' ^" ■ .^i, exx,-ri-«n-, in wtdch you fly a free 

usei is a larger ..r.i.t. of .ni . ,vay from the space 

flj.n, collection of ra ' I.;^^^^^, ^.^^^^ shine 

* ' r£? ' „ „ .w.«n 'h-oug-1 'he lower part of tne Earth's 

frf>n this space i»nuw •■i.-«n ..u^-t,-* * . , - 

::::nir;p~ ; n^;a:x.^d^-tc:.h:-..teinte again. We'v. been 
'ML;u;^a^^urthat kind of experiment in connection with h program to 
:u " subn<inces in the .trat ..sphere tha. .ffcct .one.. 

;.o «hen the opportunity of proposing for this experiment and 
.,e>ir-. fifej -< V. i-* t,(^ UP that VR nlg^st try the 

• n;« nission can* along ant we - it vCuU^.-. i -o u. trm K-Tt-.t« 

.:'hr..v .or.»trun. about th. properiie. o: -.^ aln^.phcr. ana .hat hat 
r,... i„ -ho '-xp«riffier.t was generaf?'! in th.. first pxace. It a 

Time: 15:tX> GET 

BX mic oxygen anJ the amount of a^omio n?f ^''^^^"^ Beasuremer.ts of 
But ve know that the egeSmenf vorS ^^r^^*"' "PP^^ atmsphere. 

expect to publish the Ssults in ^h^ loS^J r°"' 

of vhftt we did. Journal. I guess that's a aunnary 

hue. 'rne next s^e^frTs T ^I^eI' ^ '^'f^ 

tuticn who was tSe princLS of S^^.f^- r'"""" Sraithstonian Insti- 
Observation Experiment lh\ 3 ex!er^^^. ? Investigator for the Earth 

been perfon^d^during the'^^int^a rind'eiU^on'tf "^'"^ 
solar Phase also. Dr. El Baz. continue through out the 

Observations and FhoL^\1pL°\S::i,itf f the Earth 

the three astronaut. onboSd Jb^^nS" he ::trL"r " 

really using the capability of nTls train^H k ^' ^'^^^ ^« 

observations and obtain phi;toi-:p1^s :f\'h1 ^^^^ -^^-^ 

vlth all Its phenonenw., and with all t^Lof ^ * ^'^'o^e 

vations vili be done over lami o-^. Ill So these obser- 

The - that isn't the al'IsSr^^l ^eaUy^^^^^ .t' ""'^ 

In the Earth's Observation 01^1 >-n' v. k weather or r.eteology. 

gators and investigator gJo^^; n^^J^^f tST^'^lf ^'^^Investi- 

nany governr^^nt i«3titution3 and unUers Ue- '^^'^ 

♦ind ye al.-.o have particir^t'or hv . ^ '^'^ co'Jr.try 

The important e cr rh^e:::^: 'ftr^f ^'cperikent. 

put together the large.^t «rcui-d 'nl^t^. t ''^^ ^^""^ ^^'^^ ^« ^^''^ 

i" space. We have sS^)t^^^''2J"^ \' 

;-sels, in ..V Zealand, or ^fTl V^^f ^'^^ in ocean 

to several aircraft flights over Ind^a o^er -h^ F, '"^^ England. 

near the British Isle. On land vr^L^; f - 

in the United States in AfH^f I 5 ' geologists in the area.. 

suia. .So ve have JSt Lgethl^ ^ -^'i/'-f^? ' f ^-nln- 

P^TScnally believe that f! o? t J!'"^ good ground support tea.^ and I 

--. niaime.i apace Kisglons arri vhA-* ^..r> * " 7' V"' 

^^houli say veil trained n..n observ.r^ d" fror^r«^" P^"?^ " ^ 

■n^. nert ve ^i.., be looking at the tecktcntc Het- 




^->fi-fvf>>^ any to get befcti-rt »i - Y^^Tiutions and rR{,^f ^^xui 11115, that 

vheel that t.: . ' " ^^'^ <^ol6r^.;bwf '^^"^"e that 

y^u nay have been ae*»-rr,«, fv ^-ronauts did ^^^^^ f "-^^ ' "-"^ have put 


.I.uf^i ^•^'■■^ tre ^^}i^rste the color 

;:;.:":rf!' "'"^^ aij;',;;:;^r,f^^^-- the ^' 

3nte.-nati >nal a . ;^^;;%„r:!'- «--lay.. . f Alps 

_^nat is, to helD !!f**' 

- toffra: 

^rp (USA) pc,.2s/2 

cooperation With *», T 
routes. We'. -^1'^^"^^" ^" nortWn*^M Connission, ve'n 

son^ observation also vould Skelo fh ?^ Proble^'' 

basically very dirJr Tvo- ! "^ah. ivo- 

the Great SrL , ^^^''^'^ ^olor froa the . ^truoture but 

Peruvian L>:^e,"S'^ IV.^""' ' three, l':/^;:^"-^^^"^^ ' t^ie is 

«^.t^rir.ents. J^-rt?" ^--^^-^^tigator for o;e r^^^'"^^^«ht Center*, 
about the cJ^anS^" '''' ^« ^ littre b'; Z l"'^ "^^^ ^'"-v 
/Oi;&i;?,' ^.i" - '»-£--'^. °® ^on<5i^cxed near the 

t>- gravity a;o;:i;ir:t^^-f:^oid o;:/i?::r °i^^^f ^^^^^cs . 

/ ' spacecraft, vhi.r Vf — variation ir th^ ^ !'''°/'fP<^riaents 
5^ orbit anti - s.vnchronny. the velocity betvog^ 

y'i-^ measures 'the vl;;!, f-*^««^*ft vhich'i; 1;"^' °" Hlonetera 

ih.t speed vaHlno^'^^- ^^^^^ b^t^e^n «o 

anomiies cf the rrt--M« ' ' '^eten^ine, hoter-*: -^^^''^ spacecraft . 

--"-^r.s va.^^u:;'t:,\?'^^"^^» a a'J^VC ^^^^^'^-^^ isn't 

•^--^'t i« the aa«e'. rM^' ^'^..^f ^oclty of tvcl;:.;^^?^^; 

^-^in. .oaule iin't'?^:,''^^^- ^ther ^i^i ' ^a.^^..^ '^^^^ /^'^ one 

^'*t.llU-e f^?i^:^^.^^!^!r^" ^-^^ ^^na mrk^: .'f-r'^^"* tvo oth^ 

r — a.t a.-e being t.^cked 

ASTP (USA) PCli2B/3 
Time: 15:00 CDT 

the tva experiments? ' ^^at aoes this do, 


Tii s: 15:00 COT 

. -that • . an cpp.rtw.lty ,-e never had ^efore^-J 

H uol been if that mission ^^^^^^Jf^^ ^^.^ 

ioes tnis do - these tvo expennents? It v.lx a ^^^^ ^^^^^^ - e^rtle) 

^v! Ee^k's gravitational field and second, ^JJ^^^ connected vlth these 

aSd «aybe even -^^-^-f^t t^^^a' second, ve Will hopefully 
(^le) boundaries as f J^^f.^.f "''^Jft/ fiold. which is necessary for 
improve our Knovledge of the J^;^^^J,^;7reaaioh spacecraft such as 
^r^rcved orbit detemxnation f°^^;f ;i^^^/^^^^>j vill be launched in iyo8. 
0 - S-ricn i3 in orbit right -3 able to r^asure the topography 

carries ar. altimeter ^^^''^l^e in three din^ension and I'U 

:/the ocean. I have a topography -^P;;^^;:^'^ %^ ,,,3 spacecraft yill 
;- ^v it lo ycu later on ir p^^^^ ^'T^r^^^osraphv of the ocean, 'ihis 
C detect scali variation n a.e ^^^f ^^v^^^^ and other phenomena. 

car. interpreted as wind P^^^^P^',/^,^^i"Jitn. Third, the utlli- 
:;;.:C;.e in^ortar^t for future spacecratt -Pf^^'^^^, .^acKing fron an 
;a;ion of saleUite-to-sat^Uit. trac.i...^.hat^«^^^^ eapabiUty i. the^^ 

.,rbitir.g tracXing station. / ' ' ;%= ^^^^if stations around the vorid. -^-^ 
,..,,,e to reduce KASA's ^^'^t-!. i^-'f ve ?ave nov around .He vorl . '^ndju- . 
other vord., ve'd teXe a « 'f;^-/^ .Xj a tracklng station called th. ..-o. 
: it in orbit. We have l*?;:^ l:iv o^fc- le^int-hed ^n one of 

TtrlcKing and data readout f"^^ tv. experi^r^nts 

th. Shuttle flights in 10% to 8. ^^-—-^^ ,pace .technology 

things - advance --^^ s..e.ic.. a... . „ 
{^.r ail of us. Tlif^rk y^u. ^^^^^ _ . our next sV)e<>Xer 

■ ?AC . "'"-^ rwi/;rHoberi SnVder. ana 

is fron the ^i^-'-^*^: ■-*;:,l^"S\ne';.p;r;;ent. onboard. He'. «oing^ 
h« i3 Associated vith 3evera-^. ■ _^rit ^^^^^ v.^ been ccnciud^a 

to u3 =.bout .-.e ^-^^^^-^^^T:; !xc^ri-ent onbcard, another electro- 

and a -i-^:^- Ht abo':' ■-•^..a. .a^_ocP^ ^^.^ ^^^^^ to toll u. B.cnt 

Vhor.^is. vr.;::h i" y,«^^ / ^ J-:/-..„::.%.rf .^rt.-i ^"^ring the .'-it^t 

■ .--asenti^lj-y -nrc». -h*--- 

-■K,-iL;EH ^'-■-'^ '•'-'■'V ^■'■■■■*- ,'3^. r:eritic:^ed. Trie fi-? 

-cessing expe.'iae^^^d :.,S'.r' ^ :lxp«ri«-t pr^posci and •■elor. 

i-r--" "ess in^ cAfv. „v.,,.„.^<c .>xc«rir.t:.'.> pn - , • ,.,■.>, 

^■KOE-vir.enl , ■-..v.... 1- ■-■ - • n,,,-.-y-r is in'- pr:.::Cipa^ ^i.vt.- p. 
0 Nhe Oer... . .-rn.^ ' ;:r;-:\;s bcen'cc.p^,ote. . ''^^ - 

Max 'u'lnck „T,:-lit.,.^ ^ ".."'V^r . ,w„.; he ".as used on th<. gr-^ t.^- 
^^■^^^■^^ ::p2ati;n:';f -''-vy and anina: ce .^ ^^^ 

.,,:tt,p SUV -aasiuj.'-..- .fc- • - , ... .Vf> tvce of .appara--u^ . 

Tnia.expe.'i^ent .5.^^ ^h- advantage ot spec* for e^^^^^^o 

.«r.e fluid ccrnpone- -..s /-^-^ .r*-^ accomplish a better separation . 

|^i,,..^the.,v«ighUeS.nes. : ; ^ne^^ni.^^^^ ,f .lectrophores s the 

cessins of naterialB. jne --a er .1 ^ ^ ^.^ ^^^^ ^^^^^ ,^at 

^^^^^«^--ii^i.;^t^ti.i;::;c^^ - ^^^^ ^^^^^"^"^ 

kiortr^a.i iy on "«r-<' ^ 


Time: 15; 00 CDT 


BOrfYER - - here vlth me and then we'll wake up the science 

writers again, and we'll get through this little chunk. Most of astron- 
omy information is obtained froo the study of electrooagnetic radiation. 
And electromagnetic radiation is sort of a long word tut you're all used to 
f ! r ^^t^ radiation: that's light, the stuff that your eye sees. 

And that band has been studied in optical astronomy for hiindreda of 
years, and it is very profitable. After World War II came raaioastronomy , 
which can also be done on the grcond, and that gave us huge new insights 
into the universe that ve live in. In principle the whole rest of the 
electromagnetic spectrum night also tell us things that Mother Nature 
xs doing in our universe. But in fact nothing could be done in tems 
of obi^ervmg those wavelengths because the - they are all absorbed by 
the Earth's atirosphere. Until ?:aSA cane along and provided vi- astron- 
omers vitn the opportunity to get above the absorbing layers of the 
at.-nosphere. And in fact U was fo-xnd that these observations taken 
above the Sarth's at.-^sphere at new wavelength bands were ver-/ profitable 
did teli us, new things about cur uni%-erse. Perhaps - perhaps the 
r.ost spectacular - results in this - in my nind &nyjay are the results 
obtained m x-ray astrono.'sy and indeed there is an x-rav astDnony 
experiment on board. Dr. Herbert Freeaar:, Dr. Schoisan from the Navel 
Research Laboratory had this one. All right, ax this stage of the gane all 
or the bands of electroaagnectic spectrua had been examined a^i least 
cursorily to see what Mother Nature is doing. With the oxcep .ion of one , 
and that's the extreme ultraviolet band. It falls in between optical and 
x-ray wavelengths, and the reason that this band has not been examined 
is because there 's yet another obstacle to detecting this radiation and 
that is with tne very thin tenuous naterial between the stars, the inter- 
stellar F.ediua. And this stuff is extresely thin. It's a billion, billion 
ti.'nes less dense than the air in this room. But nontheless the distances 
between stars is so great, and the absorptive powers of this - of the 
material, happens to peak at the extrese ultraviolet wave leng'ihs. And so as 
a general consensus that we would never be able to observe at these at 
these wavelengths a.nd would fairly be a si^ystr/ as to what Mother 
Nature vas - what infonsation if she's providing any, we voul<l never 
observe it. Now NASA can do a lot - but she cari't get away - no she - 
no matter hov nuch she - no matter what NASA can do they can't eHninate 
the interstellar medium - Maybe eventually we can go to a nearby sta-, 
and exaaine it and they won't have to worry about it but until that 
tine it vas thou^jht this would be the end of the gane. Howevijr in the 
last two or three years, there has been sor.e strong hints that the 
interstellar oedium isn't a unifora soup "but occurs sort of aa & 
ciouJ, and that in fact we might be able to observe - bv looking between the 
clouds at those objects that weren't obscured. Sort of like looking 
at stars on a partially Cloudy night, if you're trying t6 lo<X through 
the Clouds it's hopeless, but in the patches between the clouds, you 
could see a fair distance. And that is in fact the point cf this of dur - 

Tine: 15:00 cm 

ISO m^l^f. » ^ "^^^ " '^^^^ - this so called 

150 aeter data taXe . the one in vhlch the - the Apollo vent out of plane 
x50 aetero, and executed an are while it - while Deke Sla:/ton was 
attenpting to point - the light source on the - aboard the Apollo 

^enectf^fL^'f-''?^'' "^f"' reflected signal from the corner 
reflectors on tne Soyuz and - caae to the conclusion after the whole 
experiment was ever - that is in fact after ve decided to shift to a 
(Uflerent corner reflector nounted on the rear of the Syouz, from 
which we got good data, that - very likely and unfortunatel^ he had locked 
cn to a window of the Soyue. thr.t is not a good reflector i^ the ultra! So we didn't get data o., that part of the - on thll - It ill 
netsrs. But ve did get data at the - at the other sepe.rations, so 
we have data to analyze. t«'*ai.iunh, so 

A °" ^"^^^ experitr-ents the res-alts